As per Jon Ryan twitter @JonRyan9:

"If Chris Culliver isn't suspended by Goodell then I am absolutely embarrassed to be part of a league that accepts this type of behavior."

Good for him for publicly standing up for tolerance.

Eh... Even if you disagree with what he said (I do), I don't see why he should be suspended for freedom of speech.

I mean, if he had said it on the field, I would agree with suspending him. Otherwise, I don't.

He and all other players do represent the NFL, and I'm sure the NFL doesn't want it's players saying stuff like that. (attempting to leave political opinions out of post, don't want to thread hi-jack or get this moved)

Also freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

The employer has NO right to control a man verbalizing his opinion when he's off the clock. We have a god-given constitutional right to differ and say so...

no matter how vile and repulsive the statement might be.

Rocket wrote:The employer has NO right to control a man verbalizing his opinion when he's off the clock. We have a god-given constitutional right to differ and say so...

The Constitution only protects free speech from government interference. People get fired for Facebook postings all of the time.

Ok, I give. Who's culliver and what the hell did he say?

Links are cool.

His comments n stuff

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... ers-player

EDIT: With better article

Thanks Raz.

400WattHPSHawk wrote:Thanks Raz.

No problemo, dude!

Actually, tho I do like Jon speaking up - I don't really feel Culliver should be suspended.

Tailspin Hawk Fan wrote:Actually, tho I do like Jon speaking up - I don't really feel Culliver should be suspended.

Yeah, I dunno. It's tough.

The Outfield wrote:Eh... Even if you disagree with what he said (I do), I don't see why he should be suspended for freedom of speech.

I mean, if he had said it on the field, I would agree with suspending him. Otherwise, I don't.

That's not what freedom of speech is at all.

He's a shameful bigot publicly representing his employer in a specifically work related interview, yeah his employer can act.

He's secretly getting a bonus check from the media for creating more attention and controversy. The comment was a plant.

Complete with obligatory (most likely phony) apology. San Fran has some smart media people to come up with this one.
Suspend him from the Super Bowl for being honest about what he thinks about a hypothetical situation? You gotta be kidding. Now if gay interest groups decide to boycott the 49ers next year, well, in SF that could be a big deal.

olyfan63 wrote:being honest about what he thinks about a hypothetical situation

That's an awfully benign way of putting it.

The Outfield wrote:Eh... Even if you disagree with what he said (I do), I don't see why he should be suspended for freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech is a bit of a misnomer. Would you be in favor of letting someone say whatever they want under the banner of freedom of speech if they were coming out in support of al Qaeda or the Nazis?

I haven't heard the Culliver comments but if the NFL is against homophobia or racism they should have the freedom to make a stand as they see appropriate. They are a huge brand with a massive following and should be within their rights to discipline anybody who they deem to be bringing their brand into disrepute.

I'll also add that when I was a teenager I had 5 or 6 friends/acquaintances who were outwardly homophobic. A decade or so later, 3 of them came out, but only after a few years of doing their best to make a few classmates' and teachers' lives miserable.

I'd imagine that a locker room full of alpha-male types would be intimidating workplace in which to be gay. After seeing what happened at high school I always wonder about someone's motives when someone makes an aggressively homophobic statement.

Hawkspur wrote:Freedom of speech is a bit of a misnomer. Would you be in favor of letting someone say whatever they want under the banner of freedom of speech if they were coming out in support of al Qaeda or the Nazis?

Isn't that the way we've always been here?

400WattHPSHawk wrote:

Hawkspur wrote:Freedom of speech is a bit of a misnomer. Would you be in favor of letting someone say whatever they want under the banner of freedom of speech if they were coming out in support of al Qaeda or the Nazis?

Isn't that the way we've always been here?

Legally, usually, Professionally, seldom I'd imagine. I don't think Culliver is at risk of "falling down the stairs", being sent to the gulag or even going to court for this but plenty of people have had worse happen in terms of their employment than being suspended. The NFL has an image to protect and if they want to I'm sure they'll be free to take whatever action they feel is appropriate.

Does this hurt the NFL's image?

Is it not Roger Goodell's job to "protect the shield?"

Just a few things to think about. No need to answer them, think of them as rhetorical.

Suspension? If I were RG I'd enforce this during training camps, and the preseason games, and make sure he just keeps this kind of talk for home and around friends. I just don't see the need for it inside a locker room or around any NFL facility, what would be the purpose...

The Constitution of the United States, should, and still does, trump corporate by-laws (for now).

400WattHPSHawk wrote:The Constitution of the United States, should, and still does, trump corporate by-laws (for now).

If that's the case then he'll have little to worry about.

Hawkspur wrote:

400WattHPSHawk wrote:The Constitution of the United States, should, and still does, trump corporate by-laws (for now).

If that's the case then he'll have little to worry about.

As it should be. He didn't murder anyone or even physically harm anyone. People talk shit every day.

400WattHPSHawk wrote:The Constitution of the United States, should, and still does, trump corporate by-laws (for now).

Try calling your boss a litany of racial slurs and see if the Constitution helps you.

That's not how it works......... at all. Private employers have the ability to fire employees who say awful things at work or who say awful things while representing them.

Freedom of speech pertains to the state limiting speech, not saying whatever you want consequence free.

Does the Constitution trump this forum's TOS? Try saying the worst thing you can possibly imagine and see what happens!

pinksheets wrote:Try calling your boss a litany of racial slurs and see if the Constitution helps you.

I only read the article and did not see or hear any audio/visual of the press conference. But i get the gist of it.

So where do the racial slurs come in?

400WattHPSHawk wrote:

pinksheets wrote:Try calling your boss a litany of racial slurs and see if the Constitution helps you.

I only read the article and did not see or hear any audio/visual of the press conference. But i get the gist of it.

So where do the racial slurs come in?

The point being that your freedom of speech is not absolute in all venues. It pertains to state limitations of speech and that's about it. Your employer can fire you for saying things they deem against their policy AT work, ABOUT work, while representing work, or in public while identifying yourself as a part of the organization. You have no freedom of speech on this forum, you have no freedom of speech at work, you have no freedom of speech in your interpersonal relationships. You can be punished for saying awful things in several facets of life in several ways, you just, for the most part, can't be so by the state. Corporate bylaws don't trump the Constitution, they just operate entirely separately and the Constitution offers you little to no protection in these instances.

The reason I used racial slurs was that racist comments are easily equatable with homophobic ones, though many seem to be amazingly more forgiving about the latter. You can't say whatever you want without consequences, you have to make responsible decisions as an adult and not be a jerkoff.

400WattHPSHawk wrote:

Hawkspur wrote:

400WattHPSHawk wrote:The Constitution of the United States, should, and still does, trump corporate by-laws (for now).

If that's the case then he'll have little to worry about.

As it should be. He didn't murder anyone or even physically harm anyone. People talk shit every day.

Sorry, last post from me about this as it's not the PWR, but.... does that mean that anybody can come up to you in a bar or restaurant and say whatever they like, in a vicious and aggressive way, to you and about you, your wife, children, friends etc, all unprovoked. You might ask them to stop and if they persist you'd expect the proprietors of the establishment to move them or throw them out. I'm not suggesting the police should be called, nobody's resorting to violence, but that there is some degree of being held to account for your actions. Can they then invoke freedom of speech and expect to be allowed to continue, meaning that your experience us affected and other clients may leave, leading to a loss of profits fir the business?

And what about schools? Can staff and students say absolutely anything without fear of discipline?

If so, the constitution might need a bit if a tweek to allow a reasonable degree of flexibility.

Michael Richards isn't in jail, but he isn't working anymore either. He just had to drop one racial slur 6-7 times during a COMEDY event.

Constitution protected his right to speech, the laws of a free economy cost him his future ability to work.

You're free to speak under the constitution, but you can still pay consequences for it.

SouthSoundHawk wrote:Does this hurt the NFL's image?

Is it not Roger Goodell's job to "protect the shield?"

Just a few things to think about. No need to answer them, think of them as rhetorical.

Suspension? If I were RG I'd enforce this during training camps, and the preseason games, and make sure he just keeps this kind of talk for home and around friends. I just don't see the need for it inside a locker room or around any NFL facility, what would be the purpose...

Honestly, I don't think this should be an NFL issue, but a team issue. The team needs to be able to decide for itself what consequence it feels is best for the behavior shown by a representative of them. If the Niners feel they've done what they feel is best in the eyes of their organization, than I'm ok with it. Afterall, it's not like he is hurting my team

kidhawk wrote:

SouthSoundHawk wrote:Does this hurt the NFL's image?

Is it not Roger Goodell's job to "protect the shield?"

Just a few things to think about. No need to answer them, think of them as rhetorical.

Suspension? If I were RG I'd enforce this during training camps, and the preseason games, and make sure he just keeps this kind of talk for home and around friends. I just don't see the need for it inside a locker room or around any NFL facility, what would be the purpose...

Honestly, I don't think this should be an NFL issue, but a team issue. The team needs to be able to decide for itself what consequence it feels is best for the behavior shown by a representative of them. If the Niners feel they've done what they feel is best in the eyes of their organization, than I'm ok with it. Afterall, it's not like he is hurting my team

So, we have more proof that Harbaugh is a complete douchebag since he cares more about winning than making sure the right message is sent? Sounds right to me.

Hawkspur wrote:I'll also add that when I was a teenager I had 5 or 6 friends/acquaintances who were outwardly homophobic. A decade or so later, 3 of them came out, but only after a few years of doing their best to make a few classmates' and teachers' lives miserable.

I'd imagine that a locker room full of alpha-male types would be intimidating workplace in which to be gay. After seeing what happened at high school I always wonder about someone's motives when someone makes an aggressively homophobic statement.

(pehawk starts unzipping pants)

If he was a white guy saying "Hell no I'm not sharing a locker room with any black guys" he would have been cut by now. I'd imagine some sort of punishment by his employer would be reasonable in this case.

Sarlacc83 wrote:

kidhawk wrote:

SouthSoundHawk wrote:Does this hurt the NFL's image?

Is it not Roger Goodell's job to "protect the shield?"

Just a few things to think about. No need to answer them, think of them as rhetorical.

Suspension? If I were RG I'd enforce this during training camps, and the preseason games, and make sure he just keeps this kind of talk for home and around friends. I just don't see the need for it inside a locker room or around any NFL facility, what would be the purpose...

Honestly, I don't think this should be an NFL issue, but a team issue. The team needs to be able to decide for itself what consequence it feels is best for the behavior shown by a representative of them. If the Niners feel they've done what they feel is best in the eyes of their organization, than I'm ok with it. Afterall, it's not like he is hurting my team

So, we have more proof that Harbaugh is a complete douchebag since he cares more about winning than making sure the right message is sent? Sounds right to me.

Works for me

(pehawk gathers lotion, kleenex and and a solitary corner)

I agree with Pinksheets, the constitution only bars the state from doing anything but as an employee of the NFL, he could face consequences. Doubt that will happen though, players say dumb things all the time, Mendenhall - Bin Laden comes to mind, I don't think the NFL will try and get involved in the situation, they probably could at least fine him but I don't think they would. I also agree with Pehawk, most homophobic statements from bigots usually indicate that person is a closeted homosexual, perhaps he should look in the mirror?

pinksheets wrote:

400WattHPSHawk wrote:

pinksheets wrote:Try calling your boss a litany of racial slurs and see if the Constitution helps you.

I only read the article and did not see or hear any audio/visual of the press conference. But i get the gist of it.

So where do the racial slurs come in?

The point being that your freedom of speech is not absolute in all venues. It pertains to state limitations of speech and that's about it. Your employer can fire you for saying things they deem against their policy AT work, ABOUT work, while representing work, or in public while identifying yourself as a part of the organization. You have no freedom of speech on this forum, you have no freedom of speech at work, you have no freedom of speech in your interpersonal relationships. You can be punished for saying awful things in several facets of life in several ways, you just, for the most part, can't be so by the state. Corporate bylaws don't trump the Constitution, they just operate entirely separately and the Constitution offers you little to no protection in these instances.

The reason I used racial slurs was that racist comments are easily equatable with homophobic ones, though many seem to be amazingly more forgiving about the latter. You can't say whatever you want without consequences, you have to make responsible decisions as an adult and not be a jerkoff.

pinksheets has it correct. This is not a case of freedom of speech. Culliver is representing his employer, the San Francisco 49ers, and they have the right to tell him what he can or cannot say. Culliver can absolutely disregard his employers wishes if he wants - but then the 9ers can then fire him if they want.

NFL personal conduct policy wrote:Personal Conduct Policy

All persons associated with the NFL are required to avoid "conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the National Football League." This requirement applies to players, coaches, other team employees, owners, game officials and all others privileged to work in the National Football League.

For many years, it has been well understood that rules promoting lawful, ethical, and responsible conduct serve the interests of the League, its players, and fans. Illegal or irresponsible conduct does more than simply tarnish the offender. It puts innocent people at risk, sullies the reputation of others involved in the game, and undermines public respect and support for the NFL.


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/spo ... z2JgE0FnjZ

I'd say Culliver's comments fit the bill. This is a league that fines you $15k for wearing the wrong socks. I think he's got some kind of disiplinary action coming his way. I'd fire him if he worked for me...

razgriz737 wrote:

Rocket wrote:The employer has NO right to control a man verbalizing his opinion when he's off the clock. We have a god-given constitutional right to differ and say so...

The Constitution only protects free speech from government interference. People get fired for Facebook postings all of the time.

True. IMHO, that is wrong as well. In an at-will state it's legal, but that doesn't make it right.

Hawkspur wrote:

400WattHPSHawk wrote:The Constitution of the United States, should, and still does, trump corporate by-laws (for now).

If that's the case then he'll have little to worry about.

What does the constitution have to do with this case? The gov isnt going to arrest him.

Remember that the NFL fines its players and coaches for publically criticizing its officials, even when the statements are made "off-the-clock."

The Constitution will only protect Culliver from the government. It has no say over how a private enterprise, like the NFL, conducts itself re: penalizing speech.

AbsolutNET wrote:If he was a white guy saying "Hell no I'm not sharing a locker room with any black guys" he would have been cut by now. I'd imagine some sort of punishment by his employer would be reasonable in this case.

I don't think it's the same thing. While it is easily understood that one is born a certain color, many people are ignorant to that fact that sexual orientation is also biological. They believe that people are making a choice to be gay because they don't understand it and are looking at it from their own viewpoint. Culliver is obviously turned off by gay, or bisexual people and likely thinks that everyone else feels the same way.

I have a friend who is a hermaphrodite and he didn't make any choice, but instead, followed the desires that he was born with. No one should pass judgement on his, or anyone elses sexual preferences because the most likely don't understand the biology behind it. I know I sure don't, I can only make an educated guess and respect their choices, whether I subscribe to them or not.

My suggestion, more than a fine or a suspension, Culliver needs an education.

The Outfield wrote:Eh... Even if you disagree with what he said (I do), I don't see why he should be suspended for freedom of speech.

All the players have moral turpitude clauses in their contracts. The league can discipline them as they see fit for rocking the boat. Culliver can say what he wants, but he may have to pay a serious price for it. That's how it works. He's not getting suspended from free speech, lol.

AbsolutNET wrote:If he was a white guy saying "Hell no I'm not sharing a locker room with any black guys" he would have been cut by now. I'd imagine some sort of punishment by his employer would be reasonable in this case.

Came to post exactly this.

No one has brought up the fact that a comedian was the one asking him questions. Apparently he was asking him joke questions and then transitioned in serious talk when Culliver clearly didnt want to answer his questions. It wasnt at a press conference or anything. Still doesnt make it right, but Im wondering why a comedian would even be asking NFL players questions in this kind of setting. Young successful players suddenly thrust into the limelight and asked questioned by comedians isnt a good recipe.

MrCarey wrote:

AbsolutNET wrote:If he was a white guy saying "Hell no I'm not sharing a locker room with any black guys" he would have been cut by now. I'd imagine some sort of punishment by his employer would be reasonable in this case.

Came to post exactly this.

Although its still not right obviously, I think his statement stemmed from the fact that he didnt want to be in a locker room and get hit on or whatever. Still a dumb statement, but not anywhere near the seriousness of making a racist remark like the one you said

What exactly is homophobic? I mean I am arachnophobic but I don't want to be a spider. I will also openly admit to stomping on spiders every chance I get.

I think some use the word as a self defense mechanism. If you don't like their preference it is only because you are secretly like them. I think that is a load of bullshit myself.

Now having said that, I am serious when I ask the question of what the word means. I don't care about any persons sexual preference but I don't want to see two gay people making out or even hear about their sexual exploits. My wife had a friend who was gay and I was fine with him. I only asked him to be discrete about it and on one occasion (the last time we got together) I actually kicked him out of my house. Not because he was gay but because he couldn't seem to avoid talking about his exploits. Now if we were in public and he started up, I would just leave but he was in my house and I had told him on multiple occasions I wasn't ok with hearing or seeing it. I didn't even care if he brought a boyfriend around as long as they were respectful.

Does this make me homophobic? I tell gay jokes and say things or people are gay but I have never even considered violence. Is it still gay bashing?

As for Culliver's comments, I think it's kind of funny. Not that it was the right thing to say but that he was so ignorant as to believe it was an ok thing to say publicly. What a complete moron.

Should the NFL come down on him for it? Maybe, I personally think the NFL should force the Niners to handle the situation and if they don't do so appropriately, I think the NFL should come down on the franchise. I also don't think he should be allowed to play in the super bowl. There is no question that he made the comments and that the comments are racist. If he were a Seahawk I would be embarrassed as hell and hope the team acted immediately and harshly if for no other reason than to show that ignorance of any type, that directly affects the organization will not be tolerated. And yes, I do think this reflects on the organization.

Just ban 49ers from the league