Trade Rice?

loafoftatupu · Feb 10, 2013

Rice brought down a lot of tough balls, took a lot of hits and played all season in a year he was a little beat up. He has a rapport with Wilson IN GAMES and he does draw coverage.

I say keep him because he is still solid and should be far more productive this year. The guy is a gamer IMHO and with Wilson growing, so should Rice.

cdallan · Feb 10, 2013

cdallan":1pg5jckk said:
We don't have to make up fake dilemmas to pass the next 6 months or ask ourselves specious questions. There are literally three other things we could do, if count sleeping and rocking backwards and forwards whilst staring at a calendar. A few of us are making make-believe film, which is marginally less of waste of time than discussing the pros and cons of trading our best WR with the shaky injury history and the huge contract.

Answer this question for me first. When is the last time that a good player in his prime was traded? Then, add in the fact he is on a contender with no cap issues, he hasn't fallen out with the team, isn't coming to the end of his contract and doesn't have a tradeable contract or an obvious replacement.
What makes this in any way likely?

Sac · Feb 10, 2013

We could trade him for Kelly Jennings

BASF · Feb 10, 2013

Bobblehead":5428sc39 said:
garrylt4":5428sc39 said:

I live a couple hours south of Pittsburgh and have a lot of family and friends who are Steelers fans and none of them want to resign him. Word is he is just big and fast. Cannot run good routes, takes plays off and drops as many as he catches. He's a diva that thinks he is so much better than he is. I pray we don't sign this guy.

Click to expand...

Have you looked at his stats?
I was reading about him dropping passes, and what they say is that he actually drops less passes than the league average.

You have to remember something here about Wallace, it's not just about him catching passes, he will be double team contstaantly. It's about him taking pressure off of Tate, so that Tate has a better chance of getting free.

Taking plays off? Of course he does.. he's playing for the Steelers, I'd want to take some plays off.. no way would he want to take ANY play off once he plays with RW

One thing no one brings up in the Wallace desire is his lack of blocking. All of our current receivers are decent to good blockers and do their part consistently. Wallace on the other hand is not even a decent blocker. In fact, there are some out there who claim that his contribution to run blocking is running a fly route to remove his CB from playing the run.

There is no one who can convince me that Pete would be ok with that. I believe we kept Charly Martin last season over better receiving threats primarily because he is a good blocker.

Axx · Feb 10, 2013

BASF":ybtikqow said:
One thing no one brings up in the Wallace desire is his lack of blocking. All of our current receivers are decent to good blockers and do their part consistently. Wallace on the other hand is not even a decent blocker. In fact, there are some out there who claim that his contribution to run blocking is running a fly route to remove his CB from playing the run.

There is no one who can convince me that Pete would be ok with that. I believe we kept Charly Martin last season over better receiving threats primarily because he is a good blocker.

Showtime Tate and Sidney Sherman are both good open field blockers. Heck Wilson is a better down field blocker than Wallace.

WestcoastSteve · Feb 10, 2013

Hawkspur":l2o1wvi1 said:
Good reasoning, although I'd prefer Rice to Wallace. I can definitely see the advantage to having a deep threat, though. I just really like what Rice brings to the field. Wilson was frequently able to use Rice's height and accompanying catching ability as an advantage and he was also capable of getting behind the secondary on occasion. I think adding another pass-catching tight end is what would help this receiving corps the most. Miller had a huge impact in the last 4-5 games and I'd like to think that adding another tight end might help us pick up 10-20 yards at a time to march down the field in the manner we became accustomed to.

I'd also like to see another good season like the last one from Tate before getting too giddy about him. The talent is there, let's see more.

Agreed, Rice has significantly better hands than Wallace, one thing I love about Rice is his catch radius. He can go up and get a poorly thrown ball, not every receiver can do that.

If we add Wallace I don't want it to be at the expense of Rice.

WestcoastSteve · Feb 10, 2013

Bobblehead":3tw47ekb said:
garrylt4":3tw47ekb said:

Taking plays off? Of course he does.. he's playing for the Steelers, I'd want to take some plays off.. no way would he want to take ANY play off once he plays with RW

Click to expand...

:179422:

"Our organization is so great "said player" will stop being lazy when he comes here.

Give me a guy who bust his butt on a 2-14 team, that's who I want.

chris98251 · Feb 10, 2013

Many people look at stats and say that player is soooooooooo much better then our player. If you have any brains you then look at the system they are in and then who else they have on the team. Wilson was hamstrung the first half of the season and Rice was still coming back form his injuries. We are a run first team or at least a very balanced team. Pissburgh had little to no running game as well so Ben was throwing more. We spread the ball all over and use crossing patterns and outs a lot.

All these add up to less individual stats but less predictable offense where everyone wins not just one player. We also ask all our receivers to block downfield which with having size helps against LB's and safetys. There are aspects of his game that don't turn up in stat sheets.

scutterhawk · Feb 10, 2013

Hawkspur":4zkgtjxt said:
Good reasoning, although I'd prefer Rice to Wallace. I can definitely see the advantage to having a deep threat, though. I just really like what Rice brings to the field. Wilson was frequently able to use Rice's height and accompanying catching ability as an advantage and he was also capable of getting behind the secondary on occasion. I think adding another pass-catching tight end is what would help this receiving corps the most. Miller had a huge impact in the last 4-5 games and I'd like to think that adding another tight end might help us pick up 10-20 yards at a time to march down the field in the manner we became accustomed to.

I'd also like to see another good season like the last one from Tate before getting too giddy about him. The talent is there, let's see more.

I think the notion is that Golden Tate was pretty much a non factor in the previous two Seasons leading up to last Year and then he seemed to get it going, BUT who did Tate have throwing him the ball?, Hasselbeck?,,He couldn't buy time to save his butt, let alone find Tate, who was trying to establish himself.
TJack?, he seemed to make more of a connection with Baldwin, plus, Baldwin was Jacksons first target and while healthy, was doing a fantastic job with the chemistry there, so you stay with what works.
Wilson changes everything about the Seahawks Offense with his abilities to read Defenses, scrambles to buy time, so the Receivers have to rework their skills to try and mesh up.
Tate and Wilson seems to have made some kind of mental connection, so I think Tate is going to be a big continuety factor going foreward with Wilson.
I would like to see a big speedster receiver join the Wilson attack next Season, though I'm not so sure that we shouldn't first bolster the O-Line, to get Wilson just a little more read time in the pocket. :thirishdrinkers:

Tech Worlds · Feb 10, 2013

When you make a trade i would hope you are trading a player away from a position of strength. The wide receiver position is not a position of strength. So no

hawkfan68 · Feb 10, 2013

Bobblehead":rwymn327 said:
To begin with, I love Rice
I love his toughness.

But is he the right receiver for Seattle? The answer is yes, except we have Tate. Basically both are not the deep down field receivers that demand double coverage.
Hawks really need a receiver that can break down field, that can demand double coverage and take a lot of pressure off of the other receiver.

Why I suggest Rice, is simply cost. He will be about 9 million next year?

Lets say for example than we get Wallace via FA, what about 12 million? Sure, a lot of money, but not that much more than what were paying for Rice.. ok maybe a little.

I don't know how much it will be to sign Wallace so, this is all speculation of course.

But what we get with Wallace.. is huge

Greater spacing in the middle of the field for Tate and the TE's
Greater Yard per catch.
Double team'd to get everyone else one on one.
a biggy here.. Less time Russell needs to look for a receiver, there by minimizing injury potential.
Bigger spacing for the runners to run through.

The benefits are huge.

Some bonuses.
We will be compensated for Rice. what we get.. I don't know, we gave a 1st for Branch.
Wallace has been pretty much injury free.
If we parlay it right, we could with the draft choice get one of those outstanding TE's (3) that are available, I'm likeing the kid from Cincinnati.

Travis Kelce.

Cincinnati senior Travis Kelce (younger brother of Eagles center, Jason Kelce) might have the most complete skillset of them all, though. A 6'6" 260 pound sledgehammer with speed and strength, Kelce will undoubtedly draw comparisons to Patriots tight end Rob Gronkowski as he goes through the pre-draft process.
Part of what makes Gronkowski such an impressive NFL tight end (and why Kelce compares favorably to him) is because he's a strong, technically sound, and tenacious blocker, and the Bearcats use his talents in a number of ways in their run game.

too.. THis gives us the best of all worlds as far as receivers go..
we have the
Pure route runner in Bouldwin.
helter-skelter receiver in Tate
and the Breakaway guy in Wallace.

Anyway,, thoughts?

Tate and Rice are not the same type of receivers. Going downfield is about the only thing they have in common but that doesn't make them same type of receivers. Tate doesn't make Rice expendable.

Bobblehead · Feb 10, 2013

The thing is, I"m not advocating this is what we do, in fact, I"m quite happy with our receivers, in fact our receivers I"m not even concerned about, but it seems there are a lot that feel we need to upgrade it. The only way I see we do is by procuring the correct receiver, if not by draft then by FA. If we do go by FA, the chances are it will be expensive and the only viable solution I see would be to trade or void the contract of the most expensive receiver we have because I don't want us paying up to's what 30 million for a wr group.

Here's the thing about Rice, I love Rice, but..
I hold on every play, hoping Rice is not hurt, I'm sure most of you have that same sentiment.. is he hurt? Rice is injury prone, he has missed a lot of games.

Rice is a tough as nails player as I have ever seen in a wr, but, thats not enough, For what ever reason, him and Tate take a long time, a long long time getting open, in fact too long. Do you realize that Wilson has the longest time in the pocket before he releases the ball?

As far a Wallace being soft, not a blocker.. well ok, we all have trade off's, perhaps his deeper down field presence means more open field area for the runner to run.. besides, the other thing I am always harping about is why those guys downfield don't do a better job blocking.. who are they, yeah the WR's.

See the other thing about Wallace, that some don't realize is the other things he brings to the table that Rice, or Tate will never bring. 1 He doesnt even have to catch the ball to be effective. Him downfield deep,, demands that he is double blanketed, which means a big field for everyone else to roam around in. All of a sudden you take any catchup ability by the opposing team away.

Yes you can talk about schemes all you want, but stats are stats.. didn't Sherman say something like, Men lie, Women lie, Stats don't lie.? Wallace's stats kick ass.

SharkHawk · Feb 10, 2013

Get a rookie in the draft then. Cheaper, easier to integrate into the offense, and not a knucklehead from another organization that may come in and do nothing like Deion Branch did. I'd rather our players were homegrown. There are some very good receivers in this year's draft, and none of them is going to demand 12 million plus per year.

Bobblehead · Feb 10, 2013

hawkfan68":54nbamag said:
Bobblehead":54nbamag said:

To begin with, I love Rice

Tate and Rice are not the same type of receivers. Going downfield is about the only thing they have in common but that doesn't make them same type of receivers. Tate doesn't make Rice expendable.

Click to expand...

They are in the fact that they don't on a regular basis provide much seperation.
They don't stretch the field.
Teams wouldn't hesitate to single cover them.
They both take to long to get open.

But your right, I don't think I meant to say they were the same, more that I was saying why I chose Rice as the trade guy.

Rice is definitely a much better route runner.
That said, though, I think Tate would fare better in Rice's position, not fare better than Rice per se, but it would be his more natural position.

hawkfan68 · Feb 10, 2013

Bobblehead":3qmu1n7c said:
The thing is, I"m not advocating this is what we do, in fact, I"m quite happy with our receivers, in fact our receivers I"m not even concerned about, but it seems there are a lot that feel we need to upgrade it. The only way I see we do is by procuring the correct receiver, if not by draft then by FA. If we do go by FA, the chances are it will be expensive and the only viable solution I see would be to trade or void the contract of the most expensive receiver we have because I don't want us paying up to's what 30 million for a wr group.

Here's the thing about Rice, I love Rice, but..
I hold on every play, hoping Rice is not hurt, I'm sure most of you have that same sentiment.. is he hurt? Rice is injury prone, he has missed a lot of games.

Rice is a tough as nails player as I have ever seen in a wr, but, thats not enough, For what ever reason, him and Tate take a long time, a long long time getting open, in fact too long. Do you realize that Wilson has the longest time in the pocket before he releases the ball?

As far a Wallace being soft, not a blocker.. well ok, we all have trade off's, perhaps his deeper down field presence means more open field area for the runner to run.. besides, the other thing I am always harping about is why those guys downfield don't do a better job blocking.. who are they, yeah the WR's.

See the other thing about Wallace, that some don't realize is the other things he brings to the table that Rice, or Tate will never bring. 1 He doesnt even have to catch the ball to be effective. Him downfield deep,, demands that he is double blanketed, which means a big field for everyone else to roam around in. All of a sudden you take any catchup ability by the opposing team away.

Yes you can talk about schemes all you want, but stats are stats.. didn't Sherman say something like, Men lie, Women lie, Stats don't lie.? Wallace's stats kick ass.

While it may be true that stats don't lie, they don't tell the whole story. The Steelers run a completely different offense than what the Seahawks do. I don't believe paying $10-15 million a year for a speedy decoy is worth it. That's what Mike Wallace is or would be in this offense. He would stretch the field and allow guys like Rice, Tate, Baldwin to get the receps. While he would be great to have, only in tandem with Rice. I don't see him as a good fit without Rice on the team.

Bobblehead · Feb 10, 2013

Decoy?
Really?
I don't think so.. In fact I think Russell Wilson would .. be out there tomorrow, getting his timing with him.. Russell would be a happy camper, I have no doubt.

10 to 15 million, yeah, thats why rice would have to be gone, don't want to pay for both.

Bobblehead · Feb 10, 2013

[youtube]5vh5XWeLch8[/youtube]

This is a guy I'd be willing to take a flyer on.. Nick Toon,
He's on NO Saints right now and on the IR, but might not take much to get him

He's big, Doesn't have the greatest speed, but Wilson probably likes him.
what do you think?

SharkHawk · Feb 10, 2013

Bobblehead":16p1n41u said:
Decoy?
Really?
I don't think so.. In fact I think Russell Wilson would .. be out there tomorrow, getting his timing with him.. Russell would be a happy camper, I have no doubt.

10 to 15 million, yeah, thats why rice would have to be gone, don't want to pay for both.

Russell would be there tomorrow, unfortunately he'd be throwing to a pretend Wallace, because there is no way in hell that fool would show up before the day he is required to in order to get paychecks. He's shown to be a pretty selfish guy. I'm not going to get into the big long discussion about his work ethic, because yes, he is talented and fast. But... he also is a griper. I don't imagine ending up in Seattle with more money would all of a sudden turn him into a super duper teammate. We've been down this road with Branch and Galloway. Both guys got their big payday and were still just as big of a dink afterward. In fact.... Branch got exponentially worse.

HawKnPeppa · Feb 10, 2013

Axx":26sc1czi said:
Rice has been open down field all year long for easy TD's, Wilson simply does not see him.

Nice generalization. Who would you replace Wilson with, Mr. Nitpicky?

Bobblehead · Feb 10, 2013

SharkHawk":3l7vi426 said:
Bobblehead":3l7vi426 said:

Decoy?
Really?
I don't think so.. In fact I think Russell Wilson would .. be out there tomorrow, getting his timing with him.. Russell would be a happy camper, I have no doubt.

10 to 15 million, yeah, thats why rice would have to be gone, don't want to pay for both.

Click to expand...

Russell would be there tomorrow, unfortunately he'd be throwing to a pretend Wallace, because there is no way in hell that fool would show up before the day he is required to in order to get paychecks. He's shown to be a pretty selfish guy. I'm not going to get into the big long discussion about his work ethic, because yes, he is talented and fast. But... he also is a griper. I don't imagine ending up in Seattle with more money would all of a sudden turn him into a super duper teammate. We've been down this road with Branch and Galloway. Both guys got their big payday and were still just as big of a dink afterward. In fact.... Branch got exponentially worse.

That maybe so,
I was just responding to somebody that Wilson probably would relish having a wr as Wallace, or Fitz.

Things change, motivation changes, who knows, I don't know for sure, but you never know, Wallace may in fact get excited to play with Wilson instead of that guy in Pitts. Hate to label anybody.

Trade Rice?

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