http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/89494 ... bron-james

I'm not saying Kobe isn't great, but for the past two days Jordan's been on some strange crusade against LeBron James.

Lebron is really coming into his own right now. Jordan is scurred.

Jordan is competing.... just cant on the court anymore. Kind of funny really

I think MJ is in the news because he turned 50? So obviously questions like that get thrown at him, I appreciate he gave an honest answer. Kobe and Michael are almost the same guy, LeBron is a 250+ lb freak that can play any position on the floor.

One game to win? MJ is still the guy, no doubt about it.

He is afraid that LeBron will be better when it all said and done.

I think that James has the talent but no one saw and handled the floor like MJ. He just seemed to have the answer to what you were going to do before you could do it.

Strangely enough I think MJ was a better "team" player than LeBron James. Now since I rarely watch basketball I'm really not qualified to say on that. During the days Michael Jordan played BB was still an exciting sport for non fans to watch.

Its not that anymore, I get bored quickly with todays game that is mostly about individual play and alley oop passes.

The Radish wrote:I think that James has the talent but no one saw and handled the floor like MJ. He just seemed to have the answer to what your were going to do before you could do it.

Strangely enough I think MJ was a better "team" player than LeBron James. Now since I rarely watch basketball I'm really not qualified to say on that. During the days Michael Jordan played BB was still an exciting sport for non fans to watch.

Its not that anymore, I get bored quickly with todays game that is mostly about individual play and alley oop passes.

Whoazzzz, I know Jordan had the random white dudes who made big shots on his squads. But the Stat's would say differently, and paint 'Bron as the better team player.

Jordan for his career averaged 5.3 assists a game, and Lebron averages 6.9 a game for his career. Both their best years in assists came though were 8 a game, LeBron edged him out though by .6 though, Jordans being in the '88-'89 season, James' being in '09-'10.

All I know is, if you were to build the ideal basketball player for me it'd be LBJ. If LBJ ever had the personality of MJ though? The NBA would have the greatest athlete of all time.

I do agree with the sentiment though, that if I needed one player for one game, I'm taking Jordan.

Throwdown wrote:Whoazzzz, I know Jordan had the random white dudes who made big shots on his squads. But the Stat's would say differently, and paint 'Bron as the better team player.

I would be willing to lay a 100$ that Mike could still make Steve Kerr piss his pants with just one look

Throwdown wrote:

The Radish wrote:I think that James has the talent but no one saw and handled the floor like MJ. He just seemed to have the answer to what your were going to do before you could do it.

Strangely enough I think MJ was a better "team" player than LeBron James. Now since I rarely watch basketball I'm really not qualified to say on that. During the days Michael Jordan played BB was still an exciting sport for non fans to watch.

Its not that anymore, I get bored quickly with todays game that is mostly about individual play and alley oop passes.

Whoazzzz, I know Jordan had the random white dudes who made big shots on his squads. But the Stat's would say differently, and paint 'Bron as the better team player.

Jordan for his career averaged 5.3 assists a game, and Lebron averages 6.9 a game for his career. Both their best years in assists came though were 8 a game, LeBron edged him out though by .6 though, Jordans being in the '88-'89 season, James' being in '09-'10.

All I know is, if you were to build the ideal basketball player for me it'd be LBJ. If LBJ ever had the personality of MJ though? The NBA would have the greatest athlete of all time.

I do agree with the sentiment though, that if I needed one player for one game, I'm taking Jordan.

LeBron is a fantastic player. But i think you can look at Jordan's "team player" more astutely than just assists. For the majority of LeBrons career he was judged as shying away from the bigger moments. he has gone as far as a teaming up with great players to help relieve that pressure. Maybe Jordan's greatest asset as a "team" player was more in his ability to alleviate the pressure of others through his defense, his willingness to handle the ball, shoulder the responsibility and lead others through challenges.
I know this is more of a "what does team player mean" but really the discussion is more about who is "better" overall, no? Jordan's ultimate strengths still elude LeBron. But, to James' credit, he finally seems capable and willing to assume those responsibilities... and may well challenge Jordan in titles if another team cant step into his path. Sadly, the only team even remotely capable at the moment is OKC. LeBron doesnt have a nasty Pistons or Knicks team to get in his way, a cagey veteran Celtics team, or the powerful run and gun of the west teams (Lakers,Blazers, Sonics, Rockets, Suns, etc.) that Jordan faced every year. Todays NBA is getting better, but not yet at the competitiveness of the late 80s through mid 90s.

And because of that, Bron Bron can see himself to 5-6 titles if he really steps into the fold.

Jordan likes Kobe better because Kobe is more like him. Kobe is a stone cold killer who cares about nothing other than winning. Lebron likes to play the game of basketball, but I don't feel like he's got the innate, hypercompetitiveness that has grown to define players like Jordan, Kobe, Larry Bird and Tiger Woods. Lebron will retire with more friends, Kobe and MJ will always have more rings.

Lebron is also in a system and has learned to play to suit his natural gifts, his court vision and his athletic ability. However, he still relies on his physical gifts, he hasn't really improved his basketball skills all that much. He should be more lethal in the post than he is, he should be a better shooter than he is. Kobe and MJ added layers to their game literally every year. Remember when Jordan added that lethal fadeway to make him that much more unstoppable on the elbow? When has Lebron done something like that?

Based on the limited B ball I have watched with LeBron, he has mad skills. Jordan and Kobe are guys that when it's MONEY time turn into assassins on the court and kill you from anywhere anyplace. Jordan was a great defender as well and could take the games momentum away on defense and offense. That is an aspect I don't see in James game either.

I hated Jordan, but he played defense. He won the defensive player of the year at least once. In one game though, I'd probably take Magic. Guy played all 5 positions at a high level. Anybody who watched him dominate a finals game at center with something like 20 rebounds and over 20 points remembers it well. He could play anywhere and truly did make his team better. He made guys like Michael Cooper look like all-stars.

I'll just let Magic run the point. Put Jordan at the 2. Kobe can be my small forward. Lebron can be my 4. And I think I'll take Bill Russell as my center. (I am partial to Olajuwan but don't need his offense with all the other scoring I have on the floor.)

That's a hell of a lot of length you got on the floor there JSeahawks. Lethal.

"Whoazzzz, I know Jordan had the random white dudes who made big shots on his squads. But the Stat's would say differently, and paint 'Bron as the better team player.

Jordan for his career averaged 5.3 assists a game, and Lebron averages 6.9 a game for his career. Both their best years in assists came though were 8 a game, LeBron edged him out though by .6 though, Jordans being in the '88-'89 season, James' being in '09-'10.

All I know is, if you were to build the ideal basketball player for me it'd be LBJ. If LBJ ever had the personality of MJ though? The NBA would have the greatest athlete of all time.

I do agree with the sentiment though, that if I needed one player for one game, I'm taking Jordan."




Come on Throw, you trying to make a point with me using stats? lol I'm guessing you're old enough to have seen Jordan play and can't imagine someone that likes basketball not thinking he did what he had to do so the team could win. Stats never tell the tale with me as much as watching the play. Want to impress me with stats? Talk about John Stockton the cheapest guy on the planet. He figured out early in his career his strength was not going to be a small forward scoring guy. So he learned better than anyone but maybe Jordan when to pass to help the team.

Again I don't watch that much basketball anymore but when Kyle once called me out for making a basketball statement when I admitted to not watching much I took the time to really watch James play.

Sorry but I think James now and Bryant always have become one man bands. Perhaps not both but big time Kobe sees nothing or anyone else on the floor unless he's screwed up and needs someone to bail him out. They just now take the ball and go for the hoop damn team play.

I've never been as sold on Bryant as most cause I have never seen him as a team player at all. All he cares about is getting his points and the spotlight. He doesn't even mind losing if he gets his points.

LeBron has been reading his press clippings to much and acts to me as if he has overthought the position he's in as far as the NBA.

And as has been said many times the NBA is now only about "stars" has nothing to do with playing the game of basketball.



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You're wrong Les, trust us that still watch the game. Lebron is too unselfish at times. He could drop 50 any night. Throw 15 assists any night. Pull down 17 boards any night. Lebron's more comprable to Magic than MJ because of that, IMO.

LeBron at times used to be unselfish to a fault (see his time in Cleveland & the first season in Miami), last season though we saw him become a dog, he started attacking the basket and he's by far the best player I've ever seen do it, the man's literally unstoppable when he does.

I don't get why people still penalize LeBron for leaving Cleveland, that team was and still is trash. Don't be surprised when Kyrie Irving leaves them in the dust too. Jordan can say he wouldn't of teamed with Bird or Johnson all he wants. He was never faced with the decision of doing so, plus he had Pippen by his side for the best years of his career, and Rodman. A lot of the teams back then were ran better and built better than the teams now-a-days as well. So you tell me, what choice did he have when he saw the Knicks gearing up to put together a team, saw his boys Bosh & Wade teaming up, and saw the Bull's putting together their team? He might not have gotten the chance at a ring ever again at that point if he had stayed in Cleveland.

Don't forget that Wilt Chamberlain averaged 10 assists per game one season, and was known as the best passing big man in the game (and one of the overall best passers in the league regardless of size). But he wasn't dishing the ball to avoid the pressure of having to shoot. He still averaged like 35 and 20 in many of those years.

If anybody doubts that Chamberlain would be dominant in this era, then they are crazy. He'd be dominant in any era. He was one of the best athletes to ever live. World class speed, the NCAA record holder in the high jump, ran a world class 100 meters, was one of the top volleyball players in the world, even into his 50's, and was a defensive machine. Too bad they didn't keep as many stat categories in those days as they do now.

Wilt's big problem was the lack of championships. Russell was probably the greatest team player ever. Won something like 11 titles in 13 seasons and 8 in a row. Averaged over 20 boards per game. Those who say Rodman was the greatest rebounder make me laugh. Not only did Wilt and Russ dominate on the boards, but they also could put the ball in the hoop (which Rodman could never do, as he was a pooer shooter than I am, and I'd take him on in a game of horse today and probably win).

The one guy that really seems to be overlooked in the "all time greatest" discussions though is Oscar Robertson. What an absolutely amazing player. A true leader. A winner. A guy who saw the floor better than probably anybody ever did. He was incredible.

My dad always talked about Earl "the Pearl" Monroe as another guy that if he'd played in this era would be known as an incredible player and would get tons of press for his amazing skills which were ahead of his time. You have lots of guys that were just really great at different things that aren't really remembered much. David Thompson isn't even known by this generation, and the guy essentially invented the "above the rim" game that we see today.

If you get a chance, check out the ABA dunk contest with David Thompson and Dr. J. Absolutely epic, and one of the reasons I loved basketball so much. The ABA was fun basketball. I really wish a new league that were more like the ABA would form and challenge the NBA. I think it would be cool, but the NBA has such a foothold and has shown that they will stomp anybody that gets in their way. Luckily for us though the NBA absorbed ABA teams, because by doing so they brought a lot of fun to watch players into the league and brought in some cool franchises with fantastic fanbases that have stayed strong for years and years after the merger.

The ABA gave places like Salt Lake City, San Antonio, Indianapolis, Denver, Dallas, etc. a chance to prove that they could support pro basketball and it has been good for the league to have those stylized players like Dr. J, Moses Malone, and David Thompson come into the NBA and added flash and pizazz to a game that frankly was boring.

Hell of a Post Shark and I can totally agree. Robinson at Cinnci and later Bucks had the whole game and was so smooth he looked almost lazy in playing. Malone, Gervin, Thompson, Gilmore,Irving if they played their whole careers in the NBA rather then most in the ABA they would be houshold names. Irvings is but so many players that nobody remembers from those ABA teams made the NBA the game it is today. That may not be a great thing since those old ABA teams many times just hade the one star to do highlight reels every night.

Kobe is more mentally strong than lebron. Same with MJ. I've seen Lebron fade when his team really needed him in important games. I've never witnessed that with Kobe or MJ. To his credit, Lebron seemed to overcome that during the championship run, but most of his seasons prior to that showed a weak mind with near-zero leadership capacity.

Wilt's problem was that he wasn't consumed by winning(much like Lebron). When he lead the league in assists, he did so because he wanted to lead the league in assists that year. He was probably the most dominating player to ever play the game, and if he cared more, its insane to imagine what he would've done. He was always compared to Bill Russell, and they duked it out, a lot. But I think Wilt took some pride in not letting winning or losing completely define him, he had other things in life he chose to do. Bill Russell would puke before games and just be utterly relentless and singleminded, much like Jordan and Larry Bird.

Oscar is often forgotten in the "greatest ever" discussion, and I think its because he was such an angry prick and a horrible teammate. Just an absolutely unbelievable player.

seahawk2k wrote:Wilt's problem was that he wasn't consumed by winning(much like Lebron). When he lead the league in assists, he did so because he wanted to lead the league in assists that year. He was probably the most dominating player to ever play the game, and if he cared more, its insane to imagine what he would've done. He was always compared to Bill Russell, and they duked it out, a lot. But I think Wilt took some pride in not letting winning or losing completely define him, he had other things in life he chose to do. Bill Russell would puke before games and just be utterly relentless and singleminded, much like Jordan and Larry Bird.

Oscar is often forgotten in the "greatest ever" discussion, and I think its because he was such an angry prick and a horrible teammate. Just an absolutely unbelievable player.

Angry is just about right. I think MJ, Bird, Oscar, Russell, would have ran over their Grandmother during crunch time. lol

The Radish wrote:

seahawk2k wrote:Wilt's problem was that he wasn't consumed by winning(much like Lebron). When he lead the league in assists, he did so because he wanted to lead the league in assists that year. He was probably the most dominating player to ever play the game, and if he cared more, its insane to imagine what he would've done. He was always compared to Bill Russell, and they duked it out, a lot. But I think Wilt took some pride in not letting winning or losing completely define him, he had other things in life he chose to do. Bill Russell would puke before games and just be utterly relentless and singleminded, much like Jordan and Larry Bird.

Oscar is often forgotten in the "greatest ever" discussion, and I think its because he was such an angry prick and a horrible teammate. Just an absolutely unbelievable player.

Angry is just about right. I think MJ, Bird, Oscar, Russell, would have ran over their Grandmother during crunch time. lol

They were, don't forget Kobe though. Kobe is a mean, mean man when the game is on the line.

Kobe's big insecurity is that he's never won anything without Shack. Let's not pretend Pippin was any big shakes - Jordan got his solo.

Lords of Scythia wrote:Kobe's big insecurity is that he's never won anything without Shack. Let's not pretend Pippin was any big shakes - Jordan got his solo.

He got one just a few years back with Pau.

Throwdown wrote:

Lords of Scythia wrote:Kobe's big insecurity is that he's never won anything without Shack. Let's not pretend Pippin was any big shakes - Jordan got his solo.

He got one just a few years back with Pau.

"How does it feel to get your 5th ring Kobe?" - Reporter
"Feels great, one more than Shaq" - Kobe

Kobe cemented himself as a top 5 all-time with the last ring.

I thought he might've won one without the big fella, but feeling sort of too hungover and apathetic right now to check. That's an insecure comment, anyway.

Lords of Scythia wrote:Kobe's big insecurity is that he's never won anything without Shack. Let's not pretend Pippin was any big shakes - Jordan got his solo.

Wow. You're hugely underrating Scottie Pippen, imo. I think he's better then anybody Lebron has ever played with, including D Wade. Pippen almost won a championship with Portland. He was never a 30 points per game scorer but he could do everything on the basketball court really well.

Lebron is not even in the conversation with Jordan. He's got an average mid range game and no post game. The man relies almost entirely on his physical abilities.

Pippen did the little things like play defense, set picks, pass, he was a point forward really. True greatness isn't always being the highest scorer, it's being able to adjust your game to compliment your team also and do the stuff needed. Most here probably don't even remember what a great player Paul Silas was, he could'nt shoot the ball if he had a 10 foot wide bucket, but he won championships because he did everything else that nobody wanted or was willing to do. Rebounding demon.

Greenhell wrote:

Weak argument, bruh.

Throwdown wrote:

Greenhell wrote:

Weak argument, bruh.

Weak as it may, funny nonetheless.