The Niners Have Fallen Behind In The Arms Race.

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  • Gratuitous militaristic analogy aside, it's true.

    We have some players and fans and coaches that are better than some of their players and fans and coaches.

    But, as it stands; they played in the NFC Championship 2 years ago. And in the Super Bowl a couple months ago.

    This part IS debatable: Heading into the draft, they have fewer glaring holes and greater assets to address their needs with than we do. Still, I'm going to go ahead and assume we Seahawks fans would unanimously and gladly swap all our draft picks for all of theirs without hesitation.

    With their draft capital, they stand a great chance of adding a top wide receiver or two, a D-Lineman to spell/complement and eventually replace J Smith and a backup to Gore in the first two rounds ALONE.

    How will we Seahawks keep pace?
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  • Sadly, we are relying on them to both miss with some of their picks, and to not even be able to use all of their picks.

    They have the capital to move wherever they want, and target both players and positions.

    The good news? They cant keep all their players and all their picks.
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  • We've got Russell Wilson and a coach the players actually love even when they're not winning. Get Bevell to be dangerous and aggressive for 60 minutes every game, and frankly, the 49ers aren't going to beat us with 5 1st-round picks.

    (Also, BFS, it has actually been zero months since the 49ers played in the Super Bowl. It's still February. :) )
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  • I think you could make a legit argument the Seahawks at the end of last year were a better team than us. Just from the eye test and the result in Qwest, it's just that their game in ATL didn't bounce their way like ours did.

    So with that said, this may not be so much the Niners pulling ahead as it is pulling even(or maybe slightly ahead depending on how they use the picks).

    If the Niners can use some of these picks for maybe a Revis like has been speculated, even if he is just a rental, then maybe that might put them ahead in the arms race.

    As it stands now it'll allow them to add tremendous depth which is what they lacked last year. But that's the only guarantee.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    (Also, BFS, it has actually been zero months since the 49ers played in the Super Bowl. It's still February. :) )



    Good Christ, February is a looooooong month when you live in Minnesota and one of your jobs is spent outdoors.
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  • heyu123 wrote:
    As it stands now it'll allow them to add tremendous depth which is what they lacked last year. But that's the only guarantee.



    Cool. A contrarian post from a Niner fan. I appreciate that.

    Re: the above, though, I will argue that it was proven last year that your greatest position of depth was quarterback.

    You have now turned that into a question mark.

    Which makes me giddy.
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  • Games still have to be played regardless of personnel.

    The ball is shaped weird and so is Kaps face.

    Whereas, ours are not. Faces that is.
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  • bestfightstory wrote:Good Christ, February is a looooooong month when you live in Minnesota and one of your jobs is spent outdoors.


    As someone who spent a large chunk of his childhood in rural Wisconsin, I wholeheartedly agree. Why are you even in that part of the country? Yuck! You better be getting paid damned good money, or be getting some serious fringe benefits from a hot secretary, or something.
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  • bestfightstory wrote:
    heyu123 wrote:
    As it stands now it'll allow them to add tremendous depth which is what they lacked last year. But that's the only guarantee.



    Cool. A contrarian post from a Niner fan. I appreciate that.

    Re: the above, though, I will argue that it was proven last year that your greatest position of depth was quarterback.

    You have now turned that into a question mark.

    Which makes me giddy.


    Not many teams have a proven #2, usually that's a luxury. The Niners did lose that luxury, but Harbaugh has had a remarkable track record with QBs. If it came to that point where Kaepernick did get hurt the Niners would be much worse, however still should be able to stay afloat with virtually anybody as the run game and D will still be very good.

    *Just as long as Kaepernick doesn't miss chunks of the season, then they're SOL. Same can be said for NE, GB, NO, Denver or Baltimore though.
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  • I think the gap is closer than one may think. I think the maturation process that took place in the second half of last year is proof.
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  • Whichever teams QB best adjusts to the adjustments that the NFL makes against them next year will be the team that wins the division (assuming both teams stay relatively healthy). I'd place my bet on Wilson.

    Amazing how adding a 2nd round pick has people all of a sudden thinking the 49ers are unbeatable, when yesterday most of us thought we would be the favorites. Really, I dont think one 2nd round pick is going to be the difference in us or the 49ers winning the division.
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  • The real killer is the doubling up of selections in the higher rounds this year for the 9ers vs the more lower rounds the Seahawks have. If they play their cards right, they can begin to continually turn over mid-round picks into higher next year picks. Let a few of their FAs walk, such as Goldston which will keep compensatory picks coming in and opt to replace them with younger just as talented replacements. Though nothing replaces experience, talent does make a difference if selected wisely.

    The Seahawks do not have enough assets currently to build up such a treasure chest unless they decide to trade this year's #1 and a few other high picks along the way to have more picks in the future in the high end of the draft.

    Not sure what else the Seahawks can do to counter the resources built up by the 9ers, other than to build up the team's depth.

    What also has to be accounted for is the depth built by the 9ers over the past decade that remains with the team. There are a few high ranked talents on the team due to draft position. Seahawks have gutted most of the pre-2010 talent save for Unger/Bryant/Mebane and a few others. Only #1 pick pre-2010 is Trufant and he is most likely gone.

    But that is up to Pete and John to figure it out. Just make it happen son.
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  • JSeahawks wrote:Whichever teams QB best adjusts to the adjustments that the NFL makes against them next year will be the team that wins the division (assuming both teams stay relatively healthy). I'd place my bet on Wilson.

    Amazing how adding a 2nd round pick has people all of a sudden thinking the 49ers are unbeatable, when yesterday most of us thought we would be the favorites. Really, I dont think one 2nd round pick is going to be the difference in us or the 49ers winning the division.


    What if, hypothetically, that added second rounder allowed them the flexibility and capital to add Revis?

    In that case it could be the difference in who wins the division. But in general you're right, for 2014 it likely won't make a major impact. The impact of all the picks will likely be felt farther down the road if they pan out.
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  • heyu123 wrote:
    JSeahawks wrote:Whichever teams QB best adjusts to the adjustments that the NFL makes against them next year will be the team that wins the division (assuming both teams stay relatively healthy). I'd place my bet on Wilson.

    Amazing how adding a 2nd round pick has people all of a sudden thinking the 49ers are unbeatable, when yesterday most of us thought we would be the favorites. Really, I dont think one 2nd round pick is going to be the difference in us or the 49ers winning the division.


    What if, hypothetically, that added second rounder allowed them the flexibility and capital to add Revis?

    In that case it could be the difference in who wins the division. But in general you're right, for 2014 it likely won't make a major impact. The impact of all the picks will likely be felt farther down the road if they pan out.


    I'd be ecstatic if you guys tied up millions of your salary cap in Revis. Cornerback is probably the least important position on the field when matching up against Seattle.
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  • You say tied up as if Revis isn't one of the 3 best defensive players in the NFL. Seattle isn't the only team on the schedule, and considering DB was probably the weakest area of the niners it'd be very important.

    Also, there's no certainty he'd tie up much cap at all other than his number for next year as the Niners could just choose to 'rent' him. though if they went that route, no way the Jets would be getting a pick like #34.
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  • JSeahawks wrote:
    Amazing how adding a 2nd round pick has people all of a sudden thinking the 49ers are unbeatable, when yesterday most of us thought we would be the favorites. Really, I dont think one 2nd round pick is going to be the difference in us or the 49ers winning the division.



    Hmmm. Your first sentence above is either bold conjecture or meant for another thread. Unbeatable? Is that what people are saying? Or are you engaging in hyperbole.

    And I imagine this board would be pretty ecstatic if the Seahawks obtained the FIRST pick in the second round.

    It's a big deal, especially as close as these two teams are, talent-wise.
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  • bestfightstory wrote:
    JSeahawks wrote:
    Amazing how adding a 2nd round pick has people all of a sudden thinking the 49ers are unbeatable, when yesterday most of us thought we would be the favorites. Really, I dont think one 2nd round pick is going to be the difference in us or the 49ers winning the division.



    Hmmm. Your first sentence above is either bold conjecture or meant for another thread. Unbeatable? Is that what people are saying? Or are you engaging in hyperbole.

    And I imagine this board would be pretty ecstatic if the Seahawks obtained the FIRST pick in the second round.

    It's a big deal, especially as close as these two teams are, talent-wise.


    My post wasnt really intended for you but more for just the vibe of the entire board. Yesterday most thought we were Superbowl favorites, today many are panicing about SF having a new 2nd round pick.
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  • bestfightstory wrote:How will we Seahawks keep pace?


    42-13 (should have been 42-6).

    49ers backed into a bye week and lucked into a flu-ridden Packers team. They didn't play any better against Atlanta in the afternoon than we did at 10am. They just caught an extra break or two. They were embarassed in the Super Bowl until the lights went out.

    People really need to get a grip. The Niners are the ones hoping to keep pace with Seattle's youth movement and drafting aptitude.
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  • The good news is that Seattle knows how to stop Kaepernick, and every NFL team is going to be studying Seattle this offseason. If the NFL can make the 49ers another 11 win team in 2013, I think Seattle takes the division.
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  • DavidSeven wrote:
    bestfightstory wrote:How will we Seahawks keep pace?



    People really need to get a grip. The Niners are the ones hoping to keep pace with Seattle's youth movement and drafting aptitude.


    Please stop making people who enjoy football appear stupid. The only ones who 'need to get a grip' are those like yourself who ASSume people are panicking. The 49ers have outperformed us the last two years (at least). That makes them the pace car. Add to that favorable draft collateral and it begs the question... How will the Seahawks keep pace? Remain within striking distance? Overtake them? It's not a panic mode, Jesus.
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  • If they pick up Revis like being talked about now, Things are gonna get real fun for San Fran vs Seahawks games! As if we don't hate them enough. This thing with Revis and Sherm. Gonna be a blast!
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  • kearly wrote:The good news is that Seattle knows how to stop Kaepernick, and every NFL team is going to be studying Seattle this offseason. If the NFL can make the 49ers another 11 win team in 2013, I think Seattle takes the division.


    You can't make any claim that a team knows how to stop somebody based on only one game.
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Re: The Niners Are Ahead In The Arms Race.
Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:25 am
  • But can you make the claim that the Ravens didn't successfully use the same game plan for what, 40 minutes of the Super Bowl? Which game tape did they look at and modify for themselves to find out how to stop Kaepernick? Arizona's?
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  • They beat us by a half game and I think we got unlucky during the year. Once we opened things up Russell Wilson was a different QB. I expect our very young offensive line to make huge strides this offseason. Carpenter and Moffitt were drafted during a strike year and missed out on all those reps they would have received during rookie mini camps and such. I think that put them at a disadvantage and then the fact they got hurt during 2011 and missed quite a bit of preparation for 2012. I think a full offseason will do wonders for them.

    We really don't have all that many needs as a team although the pass rushing need can be difficult to fill. If we shore that up which I expect we will, the sky is the limit for this team.
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  • The stage is set for a great rivalry. SF is as BFS stated the pace car, but we are right there with them, oh and we have that guy.

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  • Seahawks are the better team as a whole (JS, PC and company included). We aren't short on pick ourselves and know how to use them. Let's see if SF uses then wisely or not.
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  • Who is letting these whiner fans on our board? My god, we are going to have to deal with them all year? Don't they have a whiner board to gab on? They really come out of the woodwork when they are winning don't they?
    I might have to take a break from this board until the draft.
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  • They have Colin Kaepernick who is a clear downgrade from Alex Smith.
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  • RiggoReincarnated wrote:They have Colin Kaepernick who is a clear downgrade from Alex Smith.


    Clearly... :roll:
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  • QuickLightning wrote:
    RiggoReincarnated wrote:They have Colin Kaepernick who is a clear downgrade from Alex Smith.


    Clearly... :roll:



    Yes clearly...the 49ers went 13-3 in 2011 with Alex Smith, and had an overall better more dominant team in the 2012 season with Smith as their leader. Smith beat the Seahawks. Kaepernick could not. Smith had a part in a tie with the Rams. Kaepernick lost to the Rams.
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  • Lady Talon wrote:But can you make the claim that the Ravens didn't successfully use the same game plan for what, 40 minutes of the Super Bowl? Which game tape did they look at and modify for themselves to find out how to stop Kaepernick? Arizona's?


    Kaepernick killed the ravens. What are you talking about?

    What game plan did they use?
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Re: The Niners Are Ahead In The Arms Race.
Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:32 am
  • As long as we got Russell Wilson, Hawks will be fine.
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Re: The Niners Are Ahead In The Arms Race.
Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:27 am
  • Relax guys, Seattle just had the best draft possibly in team history last season, we could add maybe 4 players and just 2 starters this off season and still compete with anyone in the NFL. We could probably bring the same team back an win the whole enchilada next season with more maturing from our young players only.
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Re: The Niners Are Ahead In The Arms Race.
Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:28 am
  • JSeahawks wrote:Whichever teams QB best adjusts to the adjustments that the NFL makes against them next year will be the team that wins the division (assuming both teams stay relatively healthy). I'd place my bet on Wilson


    People are assuming the Niner's QB issues are solved now. It wouldn't be the first time a physical freak QB came into the league, lit it on fire for a season or two than faded into mediocrity.

    There is one thing for certain, our QB definitely is not a physical freak.
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Re: The Niners Are Ahead In The Arms Race.
Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:46 pm
  • The one reason that I have little concern over what the Niners do is that we have so many young (and I mean 2-3 year players) on this squad that are already playing above their pay grade.

    Wagner, Sherman, Kam, Earl, Wright, Irvin, come to mind on defense, with the entire OLine, Tate, Baldwin, Turbin and notably Wilson on offense are set to grow. These guys are just starting out and we are enjoying the results of their talent earlier than most teams get to.

    That is just amazing to me.

    The Niners have their own set of those guys, but players like Willis, Davis, JSmith, Rodgers and Gore are at their peak and we know what to expect.

    They are still exceptional, but the potential improvement of our young players is very enlightening.
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  • I used to be one of those who feared more what division rivals we're doing right, as much as I did the Seahawks. But, that was before this regime. Draft picks dont mean a thing if its Lamichael or Jenkins. And, the best QB is still in Seattle.

    It's very odd, but concern over what rivals do is a thing of the past. Let them amass whatever they like, they dont have PC, JS or RW. Honestly, I dont concern myself with it anymore.
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  • heyu123 wrote:
    Lady Talon wrote:But can you make the claim that the Ravens didn't successfully use the same game plan for what, 40 minutes of the Super Bowl? Which game tape did they look at and modify for themselves to find out how to stop Kaepernick? Arizona's?


    Kaepernick killed the ravens. What are you talking about?

    What game plan did they use?


    Gore got the vast majority of his yards on the 2 scoring drives. Kaepernick didn't run crazy on the ground except for the TD, not a bad job defending the option. And they beat up on SF receivers. Much like the chippy play SF likes to complain about with Seattle's DBs.

    Essentially they did for 40 minutes what the Hawks did for 60 at the Clink, they just let off the gas whereas Carroll didn't.

    When did Kap take the lead in the game? Best he could have done is gone up by 3 (with a 2pt. conversion) with well over a minute remaining and watch Flacco tear up the 49er secondary with 3 timeouts left and either win with a TD or tie it.

    Killed? He was flat game planned except for 2 scoring drives and one last fail drive. With the age of that Ravens defense it was a pretty solid effort. Against greater youth and quickness, they could have shaved 1 TD off the final.

    Kap got his licks in through the air vs. the Hawks as well. They aren't the type of team that can sustain drives solely through the air. Against quality opponents, as Gore goes, the team goes.
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  • DavidSeven wrote:
    bestfightstory wrote:How will we Seahawks keep pace?


    42-13 (should have been 42-6).

    49ers backed into a bye week and lucked into a flu-ridden Packers team. They didn't play any better against Atlanta in the afternoon than we did at 10am. They just caught an extra break or two. They were embarassed in the Super Bowl until the lights went out.

    People really need to get a grip. The Niners are the ones hoping to keep pace with Seattle's youth movement and drafting aptitude.


    To be honest, the Niners aren't worried about Seattle as much as it would appear that you guys are worried about the Niners on here. We only play you guys twice with 14 other games on our schedule. This is why the 42-13 post that keeps popping up here is causing people on Niner sites to seriously laugh their asses off now. Nothing that happened last year matters any longer as there are always surprises each season.

    Before Harbaugh came along, all we cared about was beating AZ because they were our biggest competition for the division, and despite sweeping them on occasion and beating them more than they beat us and always seeming to have their number, they would win the division and we fell short.

    If our results of last season were swapped, the first thing that we would be concerned about would be winning on the road next year, especially if we only won 3 times on the road and now have a harder road schedule next season. The odds of going 8-0 at home next year are incredibly low and shouldn't be anticipated realistically every year. You guys had an easier road schedule last year and only managed to win 3 times. With all the statistics I see written on here derived from last season to substantiate the odds of you guys winning the division this year, then statistics also state based on last year that with a tougher road schedule you will win less than 3 games on the road next year.
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  • NinerLifer wrote:Nothing that happened last year matters any longer as there are always surprises each season.


    I agree, please pass it along to all your homies. Their 5 rings from the 80s and 90s are irrelevant now, and mean nothing in their arguments with us.

    :)

    Oh, wait; you probably want to take that statement back now, yeah?
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    NinerLifer wrote:Nothing that happened last year matters any longer as there are always surprises each season.


    I agree, please pass it along to all your homies. Their 5 rings from the 80s and 90s are irrelevant now, and mean nothing in their arguments with us.

    :)

    Oh, wait; you probably want to take that statement back now, yeah?


    Nope as I also agree with you. Shocked? Don't be, if you search my post history you would find that I have said that before in regards to bragging about our 5 titles. They don't mean anything today when we step on the field each week, unless they make a tournament for past champions only LOL. I also find that the ones who are more apt to use our past against another team are the bandwagon fans we have picked up that don't know anything else about the team because they weren't around during the suck.
    Last edited by NinerLifer on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • It's more of a dig against 49ers fans lurking this site than you, I've seen virtually all of your posts because I read nearly every thread that happens on this forum. I'm not surprised, though I also have no means of proof in regards to your honesty about said statement. Not saying you're lying, I'm just saying my mental outlook on it must necessarily remain slightly skeptical. ;)
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:It's more of a dig against 49ers fans lurking this site than you, I've seen virtually all of your posts because I read nearly every thread that happens on this forum. I'm not surprised, though I also have no means of proof in regards to your honesty about said statement. Not saying you're lying, I'm just saying my mental outlook on it must necessarily remain slightly skeptical. ;)


    Understood man, I am aware that you guys have had to deal with what must have felt like an apocolypse of trolls.
    DISCLAIMER:

    The trash talking that I do occasionally this week is strictly for gamesmanship between opposing fanbases as a result of our upcoming matchup this week on SNF. It by no means should be taken personally.
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  • NinerLifer wrote:
    Before Harbaugh came along, all we cared about was beating AZ because they were our biggest competition for the division, and despite sweeping them on occasion and beating them more than they beat us and always seeming to have their number, they would win the division and we fell short.


    So you are talking about the 2008 and 2009 seasons (2 year run)? Because the Seahawks won in 2010 and it was Rams then Seahawks from 2000 until 2008. I guess you didn't start following the 9ers until 2008 or were in a coma from 2000-2007? The statement just didn't register but I plead ignorance.
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    drdiags
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  • drdiags wrote:
    NinerLifer wrote:
    Before Harbaugh came along, all we cared about was beating AZ because they were our biggest competition for the division, and despite sweeping them on occasion and beating them more than they beat us and always seeming to have their number, they would win the division and we fell short.


    So you are talking about the 2008 and 2009 seasons (2 year run)? Because the Seahawks won in 2010 and it was Rams then Seahawks until 2008. I guess you didn't start following the 9ers until 2008 or were in a coma from 2000-2007? The statement just didn't register but I plead ignorant.


    Yes I was talking recent history because I was trying to keep the post as relevant to recent years as possible. I was deployed for 2010 so I wasn't able to pay attention to what the NFL was doing that year unfortunately. However I did know that you guys won the division that year, but wasn't sure how you guys treated that win since it was with a 7-9 record and might have been the worst display from our division ever.
    Last edited by NinerLifer on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    DISCLAIMER:

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  • I guess I can just STFU, since the 9ers won the division in 2002 and the Seahawks didn't get into the NFC West until 2002.

    Just the comment made it seem like the Seahawks and Rams were non-factors for quite awhile during the span of Arizona vs 9ers rivalry spurred by Davis and Dockett going back and forth.
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  • drdiags wrote:I guess I can just STFU, since the 9ers won the division in 2002 and the Seahawks didn't get into the NFC West until 2002.

    Just the comment made it seem like the Seahawks and Rams were non-factors for quite awhile during the span of Arizona vs 9ers rivalry spurred by Davis and Dockett going back and forth.


    Ya I wasnt trying to show any disrespect, just trying to point out in my OP that sometimes beating your division rival alone isn't enough to win the division.
    DISCLAIMER:

    The trash talking that I do occasionally this week is strictly for gamesmanship between opposing fanbases as a result of our upcoming matchup this week on SNF. It by no means should be taken personally.
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  • bestfightstory wrote:
    JSeahawks wrote:
    Amazing how adding a 2nd round pick has people all of a sudden thinking the 49ers are unbeatable, when yesterday most of us thought we would be the favorites. Really, I dont think one 2nd round pick is going to be the difference in us or the 49ers winning the division.



    Hmmm. Your first sentence above is either bold conjecture or meant for another thread. Unbeatable? Is that what people are saying? Or are you engaging in hyperbole.

    And I imagine this board would be pretty ecstatic if the Seahawks obtained the FIRST pick in the second round.

    It's a big deal, especially as close as these two teams are, talent-wise.

    42-13.

    Yeah, really close.
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  • ^yeah. The results from one game sez it all. Gimme a break. San Fran had a lot going against them playing two of the best teams in the league in back to back weeks and both PrimeTime and both on the road in two of the most difficult places to come into and win. I won $800 on that game betting on Seattle to win and I have a picture of the ticket to prove it. Risked nearly a grand. That's how confident I was in my team that night. Big deal.

    Try to bring some substance to the conversation, please. Please? Or don't. I guess I shouldn't really care.
    Last edited by bestfightstory on Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • To be fair, BFS, if we aren't using that as an excuse for losing to the Falcons; then it shouldn't be used to benefit the 49ers in their loss to us, certainly.
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