Pete: We wanted Wilson, even in the 2nd round

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  • Good stuff:

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ns-height/

    FYI, the undercurrent theme here is Pete mocking the other 31 teams...which I love.
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  • Man. I don't think, if I were that high on Wilson, that I could have risked waiting. Certainly don't know that I would have risked not trading up a few picks to get above teams like the Chiefs who were every bit as likely to take a QB. Glad it worked out, but yikes, what a gamble.
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  • jkitsune wrote:Man. I don't think, if I were that high on Wilson, that I could have risked waiting. Certainly don't know that I would have risked not trading up a few picks to get above teams like the Chiefs who were every bit as likely to take a QB. Glad it worked out, but yikes, what a gamble.


    I thought about that too reading that piece. Talk about nerve wracking.
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  • Why not "even at our first pick"?
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  • What I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall in the war room on draft day. Sounds pretty intense. I remember many saying we could have waited even longer to grab Wilson. Glad we didn't tempt that theory.
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  • jkitsune wrote:Man. I don't think, if I were that high on Wilson, that I could have risked waiting. Certainly don't know that I would have risked not trading up a few picks to get above teams like the Chiefs who were every bit as likely to take a QB. Glad it worked out, but yikes, what a gamble.


    This is why JS and the front office are paid the big bucks. They know better than us where players are likely to be drafted. I believe Wilson was slotted as a 4th round pick or later in most mocks. I also heard Wilson's old coach at Wisconsin say on the radio that JS called him almost every day leading up to the draft to see if other teams had expressed strong interest. Their careful gaming got them Bobby Wagner and valuable contributors in later rounds.

    And as many recall, Wilson was largely considered a "reach" at 75 on draft day.
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  • The whole Russell Wilson draft thing and him falling to the 3rd round reminds me of that scene from Money Ball. Where those old scouts are sitting around the table talking about a prospects girlfriend. On how attractive she was... because that reflects on his confidence... which is an indicator of his ability to play or something like that.

    These old scouts and GM's get so caught up in details not related to 'can he play or can't he'?

    Wilson is a baller, whether he was 5' 10 5/8'' or 6'5'', doesn't matter. And PCJS knew it, they saw right through all the nonsense.
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  • Any QB could succeed in our system.
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  • McGruff wrote:Any QB could succeed in our system.


    False. Only the short ones.
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  • McGruff wrote:Any QB could succeed in our system.


    Yep, just a system QB.
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  • bestfightstory wrote:Why not "even at our first pick"?

    Schneider said in an interview he had to be talked out of taking Wilson in the 1st
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  • Hehe... some gold nuggets in the comments:

    As a Ohio State fan, I was freakin’ terrified of Wilson. He had super poise and a contagious form of confidence that effected the whole Badger team. When he had the ball in the last few seconds of the game… I just walked away from my TV… I knew it was over. Much respect for this young man. 2012 NFL QB Rookie Class was the most exciting football I’ve seen overall for a long time. Wilson, Luck & RGIII.
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  • Beeker wrote:Hehe... some gold nuggets in the comments:

    As a Ohio State fan, I was freakin’ terrified of Wilson. He had super poise and a contagious form of confidence that effected the whole Badger team. When he had the ball in the last few seconds of the game… I just walked away from my TV… I knew it was over. Much respect for this young man. 2012 NFL QB Rookie Class was the most exciting football I’ve seen overall for a long time. Wilson, Luck & RGIII.


    Profootballtalk comments are some of the craziest posters on the interwebz. I don't know what the deal is with people who comment there, but they are some of the most hilariously uninformed, ignorant, haters I've ever seen. I read the comments there for pure entertainment.

    That one is pretty good Beeker, sorry went off on a tangent.
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  • Did anyone read the comments? All the haters came out in droves. Most of the whiner fans sounded like complete imbeciles.
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  • McGruff wrote:Any QB could succeed in our system.


    Low blow on Tarvaris ouch! Not even acknowledging him as a QB
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  • One comment I love:

    I don’t buy it. If they really liked a quarterback that much, they wouldn’t take a chance on missing out on him. Were they so arrogant that they didn’t think any other team could like him as much as they did?


    Yep. And they were right. :mrgreen:
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  • There were a lot of haters in there saying Pete's a liar because if he really wanted Wilson in the 1st or 2nd he would have just taken him there, ignoring the stated logic and obvious results of what Seattle actually did. Pretty stupid. There was a great comment in there that just nailed those idiots, I loved it:

    Glad the armchair GMs willing to burn 1st round picks on players they could’ve got in the 3rd aren’t in charge of my team.
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  • It sounds like we're the new most hated team in the league. A lot of jealous, uneducated fans on that board.
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  • And it STILL would have been an incredible pick in the 2nd round. These guys got a 1st round talent in the 3rd round, unreal.
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  • Pete; “Hey Russell, I know we selected you in the 3rd round, but we really wanted you in the 2nd round. So, here’s a contract worthy of a 2nd round pick.” What? That didn’t happen? Pete Carroll is just full of it? Still? Shocking!


    That's my favourite, someone who clearly isn't aware of both the rookie payscale and the fact that Seattle offered Russell Wilson the absolute maximum possible contract for a 3rd round pick to get him to sign as quickly as possible, a move which caused delays in other third round picks getting signed as agents used this to try and negotiate more money
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  • themunn wrote:
    That's my favourite, someone who clearly isn't aware of both the rookie payscale and the fact that Seattle offered Russell Wilson the absolute maximum possible contract for a 3rd round pick to get him to sign as quickly as possible, a move which caused delays in other third round picks getting signed as agents used this to try and negotiate more money



    Yeah, I forgot he was one of the first players to sign last offseason. Thanks for the refresher.
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  • jkitsune wrote:Man. I don't think, if I were that high on Wilson, that I could have risked waiting. Certainly don't know that I would have risked not trading up a few picks to get above teams like the Chiefs who were every bit as likely to take a QB. Glad it worked out, but yikes, what a gamble.


    Me neither. Remind me never to play poker with Carroll and Schneider!
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  • Everyone on there acting like seattle is saying this in hindsight... its pretty well documented a few days after the draft, Pete said John wanted him in the 2nd and they had to talk him out of doing it.
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  • kearly wrote:There were a lot of haters in there saying Pete's a liar because if he really wanted Wilson in the 1st or 2nd he would have just taken him there, ignoring the stated logic and obvious results of what Seattle actually did. Pretty stupid. There was a great comment in there that just nailed those idiots, I loved it:

    Glad the armchair GMs willing to burn 1st round picks on players they could’ve got in the 3rd aren’t in charge of my team.


    Umm... That one you quoted was me. I'm sorry, I have an unhealthy addiction - replying to haters on PFT comment threads. It's an addiction I'm trying to kick... :?
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  • Carroll and Schneider were blowing smoke about Ryan Tannehill in the days before the draft. Somehow I knew they were targeting Wilson. After watching his "Ultimate Russell Wilson highlights video" on Youtube, it was jaw-dropping stuff, play after play after play, especially considering all the pressure situations he was in. All I can figure is whatever other teams watched it had already dismissed Wilson based on height; the human brain's "confirmation bias" at work. Overruling logical points like the fact that Wilson's O-line at Wisconsin was bigger and taller than most NFL lines, and he seemed to succeed anyway. One photo on .NET had Pete pretending not to be paying attention during Wilson's combine workout, listening to some other speaker. I posted a pre-draft mock with Hawks taking Wilson in the 3rd, but damned if I can find it. (learn how to search? Where did that draft forum go?) It was funny all the projections of 6th round or UDFA that showed up in the media. By draft day, the buzz was 4th or 5th round. I was worried someone would snag him in the 2nd round. I knew the 'Hawks would take Wilson in the 3rd round, and not risk losing him by waiting to the 4th. I think PC/JS later say they had a grade of "3rd" on him, but what they meant was 3rd OVERALL in the draft, not 3rd round. My guess would be RGIII and someone else, not necessarily Luck, were the first 2 on their big board. Just showed how highly they thought of him, and yeah, I'll bet each pick waiting to 75 was like living and dying, hoping not to have Wilson plucked out from under them.
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  • -The Glove- wrote:It sounds like we're the new most hated team in the league. A lot of jealous, uneducated fans on that board.


    Then again, all the stupid anti-Seahawks comments were voted way down and all the pro-Seahawks comments were voted way up.
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  • uncle fester wrote:Umm... That one you quoted was me. I'm sorry, I have an unhealthy addiction - replying to haters on PFT comment threads. It's an addiction I'm trying to kick... :?


    Good work.
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  • I will be honest... I thought Seneca Wallace when they drafted him. Maybe a better passer but not much more. Glad I was wrong
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  • jkitsune wrote:Man. I don't think, if I were that high on Wilson, that I could have risked waiting. Certainly don't know that I would have risked not trading up a few picks to get above teams like the Chiefs who were every bit as likely to take a QB. Glad it worked out, but yikes, what a gamble.

    Agree with this.

    Philly also supposedly really liked Wilson and took a similar risk. They took Vinny Curry at the end of the 2nd round and targeted Wilson with their 3rd round pick. Wilson didn't make it to their 3rd round pick, the guy they drafted instead of him (Foles) was unspectacular, Curry had 9 tackles and no sacks as a rookie, and Andy Reid lost his job. I'm glad it worked out, but I consider it incredibly lucky that it worked out the way it did. There were plenty of teams ahead of us that could have taken him too. Buffalo, Jacksonville, and Kansas City all picked in the 6 spots before #75 and all had questionable at best QB situations. Now all of those teams have new coaches and two have new GMs. The Redskins could have taken him at #71 too, as they obviously wanted a mid-rounder to back up RG3 and were another team that supposedly liked Wilson going into the draft.

    It's crazy to think that Pete and John would probably be entering this season on the hot seat instead of as Super Bowl favorites if one of those teams had taken Wilson before our pick.
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  • In hindsight, we all know Wilson was worth a 1st. That jades us a little bit. I personally thought he'd be good in a couple of years, and a capable backup for Flynn his rookie year. I theorized that it would take him a year or two to digest the NFL's speed, and adjust to the larger players. Thing was, I KNEW Wisconsin's OL that year would've been the 4th biggest in the NFL. All of the media hype kinda sunk in, so even though the signs were there, I also dismissed him for height issues and the general consensus that NFL QB's take a couple of years or so to season. Funny thing is, I also think that intangibles are more important to a QB than physical tangibles, and I ignored that with Wilson as well.

    The pure genius of this move was made before the draft. We went and got Flynn for bargain basement starter money, with the FO thinking he'd probably beat out TJack and either be a bridge starter until we got our draft pick we wanted, or possibly taking over the team and taking that next step; he had that potential. So we had the luxury of being able to wait, since we had Flynn and Jackson ready to duke it out and the team would've been better for it anyways. After the Flynn signing, we weren't technically a QB needy team. So all the people thinking we were playing a game of chicken with other teams are right, but we already had a backup plan on the roster. Or vice versa, maybe Wilson was the backup plan. Either way, it was covered, in more than one way
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  • Funny, here's a backhanded comment that said pretty much what I did. You can tell the guy's a hater, but he respects the move:

    "Remember, the Searats didn’t necessarily need a QB because they thought their free agent signing of Matt Flynn was going to be the franchise QB. They didn’t need to spend a first round draft choice on a QB. I hate to say it but Cheatey Petey did a great job in evaluating Wilson and others in that draft. The so-called experts need to re-evaluate their scouting of QBs and this desire for a “prototypical” QB size. They need to go for leaders with skill, not meatheads with “prototypical” QB size like Vince Young, Jeff George, Ryan Leaf, Jawalrus, Matt Leinart, etc"
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  • I believe them. They had a 2nd round (if not higher) grade on him but they were 100% sure they had the pulse of the league and knew he would be there at a better value in the 3rd. That's great Draft management all the around. They didn't panic and draft the player they wanted and sacrifice a higher pick and another player (All rookie-team MLB) Wagner. They played it perfectly and we had one of the best drafts in the last decade.
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  • In hindsight I would now be okay with taking Russell in the 2nd. Although I would hate to not have Bobby on our team as well.
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  • Blitzer88 wrote:In hindsight I would now be okay with taking Russell in the 2nd. Although I would hate to not have Bobby on our team as well.


    Well hell, if we're talking hindsight I would be fine with the 1st. And it the league had a do over he possibly would go 1st over all to the Colts :D
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  • McGruff wrote:Any QB could succeed in our system.

    :pukeface: :pukeface:
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  • rainger wrote:
    McGruff wrote:Any QB could succeed in our system.

    :pukeface: :pukeface:


    Yup, that's what we got from Tavares Jackson. Nothing but success. :P:shock:
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  • HawKnPeppa wrote:
    rainger wrote:
    McGruff wrote:Any QB could succeed in our system.

    :pukeface: :pukeface:


    Yup, that's what we got from Tavares Jackson. Nothing but success. :P:shock:


    Hey Jackson was better in 2011 than Andrew Luck was in 2012 . . . And Luck is considered a "stud".
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  • grizbob wrote:
    Blitzer88 wrote:In hindsight I would now be okay with taking Russell in the 2nd. Although I would hate to not have Bobby on our team as well.


    Well hell, if we're talking hindsight I would be fine with the 1st. And it the league had a do over he possibly would go 1st over all to the Colts :D


    :13: I agree. I was lamenting this franchise's inability to find an elite franchise qb prior to last year (and refusing to suck for Luck), and now they have greatly earned my respect and gratitude. Well done Pete and John!
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  • McGruff wrote:
    Hey Jackson was better in 2011 than Andrew Luck was in 2012 . . . And Luck is considered a "stud".

    Bold words, McG.

    You might compare numbers and conclude that, but the fact that Luck was good at the end of games trumps any stats TJ ever put up.
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  • McGruff wrote:
    Hey Jackson was better in 2011 than Andrew Luck was in 2012 . . . And Luck is considered a "stud".


    Lol he wasnt even close to as good. Luck had like 5 comebacks in the 4th quarters last year. Tarvaris had 0, I think. Remember that game against the Giants was Charlies comeback...
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  • TJac was a very important part of our rebuild. It takes 11 players on offense to be functioning well to succeed. We did not have that when TJac was here. What TJac allowed us to do was give the OL, Run game, WRs the time they needed to get better. This was a key part of the rebuiding process. If we had Wilson a year earlier, we would have not been ready to start a rookie QB. Pete Carrol came out and stated this when he drafted Carpenter. Remember we could not run the ball or run block or pass protect worth a chit the first 8 games of TJac being a starter. Sometimes I get the feeling that you need to call someone out to try to sound like you know what you are talking about.

    I fully understand that TJac was not the QB to bring us to the next level but I am truly grateful for his efforts that he gave our team. Very few would have been able to take the beating he did which was so necessary so the rest of the the team had time to develop and learn
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  • Scottemojo wrote:
    McGruff wrote:
    Hey Jackson was better in 2011 than Andrew Luck was in 2012 . . . And Luck is considered a "stud".

    Bold words, McG.

    You might compare numbers and conclude that, but the fact that Luck was good at the end of games trumps any stats TJ ever put up.


    But many of those games were come from behind because Luck played sooorly the first half of the game.
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  • McGruff wrote:
    Scottemojo wrote:
    McGruff wrote:
    Hey Jackson was better in 2011 than Andrew Luck was in 2012 . . . And Luck is considered a "stud".

    Bold words, McG.

    You might compare numbers and conclude that, but the fact that Luck was good at the end of games trumps any stats TJ ever put up.


    But many of those games were come from behind because Luck played sooorly the first half of the game.



    Their defense was one of the worst in the league though... anyway a win is a win. Would you rather have a QB who gets him team down but gets them the win in the end... or a QB who keeps his team pretty level in the game but doesnt win in the end?
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  • the fact that this turned into a discussion about TJ! TJ! TJ! is phhhhhenomenal.
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  • Does anyone recall how Pete and John weren't nearly as outwardly excited after taking Bobby Wagner as they are after most picks? It was noticeable on the war room cam.

    Maybe it was anxiety over potentially missing Wilson.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:And it STILL would have been an incredible pick in the 2nd round. These guys got a 1st round talent in the 3rd round, unreal.

    It would've been a great pick in the first round. Wilson got his team into the second round while RG3 and Luck went home, and his numbers were comparable.
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  • nanomoz wrote:Does anyone recall how Pete and John weren't nearly as outwardly excited after taking Bobby Wagner as they are after most picks? It was noticeable on the war room cam.

    Maybe it was anxiety over potentially missing Wilson.


    Probably.

    They probably felt like they were going to vomit, thinking they could have made a huge mistake rolling the dice that Wilson would be there at #75.

    Is there footage of the Hawks war room when they announced #74? It would be interesting to see if they celebrated when Donald Stephenson was picked.
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