Let's Talk Mariners

The Radish":sdmcgdze said:

Hey Cali I too am a Dodger fan from way back.

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No wonder you are angry gramps the Dodgers spent 233 million to be sub .500
In a crap division I might add

Lords of Scythia":kh5a8f2n said:

KitsapHawk":kh5a8f2n said:

The Radish":kh5a8f2n said:

" Seattle has proven time and again that it will support a team through thick and thin, as long as the team shows they are trying."


The above statement perhaps is true since they haven't been trying for years. It just shows that some people are so hooked on the game of baseball they keep showing up thinking the game will show up in Seattle even tho that bus left years ago.

I mean look at you, listen to yourselves. Hoping for the team to get back to .500. That's truly oathetic.

:roll:

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Well that may be true

yeah. I got nothing.







:les:

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Oh stop it. Yes you DO: You and your widdle puppy are SO ADORABLE.

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I wish the person in the picture was me.

[youtube]UPOLWgeNR4I[/youtube]

I would be peter-lois.

Hey Cali I too am a Dodger fan from way back.

Jits,,,,well I just don't understand paying money to someone that has no interest in putting a quality product on the field. And the Ms haven't had quality products on the field since the 90s.

As long as you keep giving them your money they think its ok. Only way to get real change is stop paying them for a piss poor product. If your automobile repair place gave you the same kind of crappy repair and service you'd change in a heartbeat. Why not do the same with your sports product?

Granted I stuck with the Hawks when they were poor but for the most part I could see they were trying to right the ship. I don't see that with the Mariners, they just rotate faces and provide the same crummy product every year.

And of course like all opinions here mine has as much value as yours.

:roll:[/quote]

If you're able to 'change sports products,' then I envy you. I live in San Francisco - if I could love the Giants, that'd be great. A relationship with a sports team goes beyond a simple business transaction. If you think that doesn't make any sense, then why did you stick with the Seahawks?

Your opinion has as much value as mine, but that's not an excuse for what has, at times, become a pointed habit of rubbing peoples' nose in the fact that their sports team has been a miserable failure for ten years. And when you state, as you have in the past, that 'we should be ashamed of ourselves,' that goes beyond just stating an opinion that I can accept as 'equally valid.' Then it gets personal. As you yourself state, you stuck with the Hawks through the Behring years. Did you honestly think Ken Behring was trying to 'right the ship?' Did you stop going? If you stopped going, did you stop caring? Did you stop watching on TV? The next time Seahawks are bad (and it will eventually happen), will you bail? I don't think for an instant you would - you're as much a diehard as I am (and have been for longer yet).

I get your point, Radish. But when most of your contributions to Mariners threads are to call us pathetic, I stop listening. That's not discussion, that's just throwing insults. I'm not going to stop loving the Mariners, and showing up once every several pages to announce that I should be ashamed of myself or that my fandom is pathetic doesn't generate conversation. Of course you'll post what you want, and so will I, and we will both continue to love the Hawks and live and die with that team, and I will of course keep my replies appropriate for the forum we're in.

jkitsune":nmp06qpe said:

Hey Cali I too am a Dodger fan from way back.

Jits,,,,well I just don't understand paying money to someone that has no interest in putting a quality product on the field. And the Ms haven't had quality products on the field since the 90s.

As long as you keep giving them your money they think its ok. Only way to get real change is stop paying them for a piss poor product. If your automobile repair place gave you the same kind of crappy repair and service you'd change in a heartbeat. Why not do the same with your sports product?

Granted I stuck with the Hawks when they were poor but for the most part I could see they were trying to right the ship. I don't see that with the Mariners, they just rotate faces and provide the same crummy product every year.

And of course like all opinions here mine has as much value as yours.

:roll:

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If you're able to 'change sports products,' then I envy you. I live in San Francisco - if I could love the Giants, that'd be great. A relationship with a sports team goes beyond a simple business transaction. If you think that doesn't make any sense, then why did you stick with the Seahawks?

Your opinion has as much value as mine, but that's not an excuse for what has, at times, become a pointed habit of rubbing peoples' nose in the fact that their sports team has been a miserable failure for ten years. And when you state, as you have in the past, that 'we should be ashamed of ourselves,' that goes beyond just stating an opinion that I can accept as 'equally valid.' Then it gets personal. As you yourself state, you stuck with the Hawks through the Behring years. Did you honestly think Ken Behring was trying to 'right the ship?' Did you stop going? If you stopped going, did you stop caring? Did you stop watching on TV? The next time Seahawks are bad (and it will eventually happen), will you bail? I don't think for an instant you would - you're as much a diehard as I am (and have been for longer yet).

I get your point, Radish. But when most of your contributions to Mariners threads are to call us pathetic, I stop listening. That's not discussion, that's just throwing insults. I'm not going to stop loving the Mariners, and showing up once every several pages to announce that I should be ashamed of myself or that my fandom is pathetic doesn't generate conversation. Of course you'll post what you want, and so will I, and we will both continue to love the Hawks and live and die with that team, and I will of course keep my replies appropriate for the forum we're in.[/quote]
Good post. We will love the team that we call ours. But being called pathetic for it, is rather personal. Shall we continue a mariner thread in the shack Raddish?

I agree. We should stop giving the Mariners any money. Drop attendance down to near zero, even less than it is now, don't buy a single piece of merchandise, make it a horrible unprofitable business here in Seattle. I don't see how that could backfire.

Frankly, the people who come by here every day to tell us that we shouldn't care about the Mariners should just find something better to do. I'd rather read through NinerLifer's entire post history than see someone go holier than thou on a message board dedicated to a team that has been awful far more than it has been good tell us that we all better run for the hills. God forbid the young prospects on the major league roster showing promise, the improved offense as of late, the wealth of other prospects in the waiting, etc. give anybody something to be hopeful for or even something to talk about. If you're not a Mariners fan at all, great, stay out. Honestly, Radish, your posts in this thread might be worse than just about anything I've seen on this board. Now post some waggy finger emoties at us and feel lonely.

If they finish .500, I will be exceedingly happy. That means that they played better than .500 ball - maybe even .550, or potential playoff ball - for the back half of the season, which would almost surely coincide with Franklin, Miller, etc. getting better/staying good.

I would love to see them play some October baseball this year like everyone else would, but we need to take baby steps. If the Ms win even 80 games considering the start they got off to and Miller/Franklin/Seager/Smoak looks like a legitimately good infield that we can contend for a wild card with next year, I would be happy. I don't think that's pathetic.

Also, Radish, I disagree that the management doesn't care about putting a quality product on the field. They spent 100M to lose 100 games. They have tried to put a good product on the field. The issue here is not money. Nintendo is not the McCourts putting everyone in their family on the payroll to suck the franchise dry. The issue is that the GM hires have not worked out for us since Pat Gillick and on through to Bavasi and Jack Z.

They have not spent 100 million to lose 100 games. For instance last year the the budget was 58 million. This year it will be less still. The last time it was a 100 million was 5 years ago.

I would like to see a winning baseball team. It is good to see some of the younger players able to play at least the major league average.

Happypuppy":2uwj9keh said:

They have not spent 100 million to lose 100 games. For instance last year the the budget was 58 million. This year it will be less still. The last time it was a 100 million was 5 years ago.

I would like to see a winning baseball team. It is good to see some of the younger players able to play at least the major league average.

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Yes they did. They spent over 100M on payroll in 2008 and lost over 100 games.

The payroll this year is 73M. http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/salaries/_/name/sea/seattle-mariners The Mariners have not spent 58M on their team in some time. They spent 78M last year, but rumors are that they are willing to raise the payroll again. Before that, they spent over 90M in 2009, 2010, and 2011. http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2011/8/29/2391673/seattle-mariners-2012-payroll-salary

Remember that the Ms have TRIED to spend money. They tried to bring in Josh Hamilton. They tried to bring in Prince Fielder. Hitters didn't want to come here because the perception is that hitters die here (see Beltre, who was still a good hitter but was better in friendlier parks in LA and Arlington). That's why they moved in the fences.

Your payroll numbers are incorrect, however. The Ms management may be many things, but cheap sure as heck isn't one of them.

I love the Mariners and am disgusted with ownership. It's not impossible to separate the two.

Since ownership is completely happy sitting back and owning the team whether they win or lose, boycotting or not going to a game won't make a difference. So that's futile. But mocking them, criticizing their absence and lack of accountability to the city is fair game. Shultz and Behring opened my eyes to the importance of ownership and that's why I never take it for granted with Allen. No amount of re-branding, promotionals, or replays of games in 1995 are going to change my opinion of them. Even if it's just that they don't know how to put people in place that can win, that's a problem. I'll always follow the team, despite lackluster ownership. Hopefully we run into some wins and can celebrate some new success. The fanbase deserves it.

RE: Offensive players not wanting to play here - that's why it's nice to see Kendrys Morales and Raul Ibanez have some success here. Maybe hitters will think that moving in the fences fixed everything and thus be more willing to sign here.

We need FA outfielders that can play decent defense, draw walks, and hit line drives. If we could fill two of LF/CF/RF with guys like that and two of Ramirez/Hultzen/Paxton/Walker are ready next year, this team can make the playoffs. I don't think that's overly-hopeful.

425HawkSpark":1g2laxl0 said:

jkitsune":1g2laxl0 said:

Hey Cali I too am a Dodger fan from way back.

Jits,,,,well I just don't understand paying money to someone that has no interest in putting a quality product on the field. And the Ms haven't had quality products on the field since the 90s.

As long as you keep giving them your money they think its ok. Only way to get real change is stop paying them for a piss poor product. If your automobile repair place gave you the same kind of crappy repair and service you'd change in a heartbeat. Why not do the same with your sports product?

Granted I stuck with the Hawks when they were poor but for the most part I could see they were trying to right the ship. I don't see that with the Mariners, they just rotate faces and provide the same crummy product every year.

And of course like all opinions here mine has as much value as yours.

:roll:

Click to expand...

If you're able to 'change sports products,' then I envy you. I live in San Francisco - if I could love the Giants, that'd be great. A relationship with a sports team goes beyond a simple business transaction. If you think that doesn't make any sense, then why did you stick with the Seahawks?

Your opinion has as much value as mine, but that's not an excuse for what has, at times, become a pointed habit of rubbing peoples' nose in the fact that their sports team has been a miserable failure for ten years. And when you state, as you have in the past, that 'we should be ashamed of ourselves,' that goes beyond just stating an opinion that I can accept as 'equally valid.' Then it gets personal. As you yourself state, you stuck with the Hawks through the Behring years. Did you honestly think Ken Behring was trying to 'right the ship?' Did you stop going? If you stopped going, did you stop caring? Did you stop watching on TV? The next time Seahawks are bad (and it will eventually happen), will you bail? I don't think for an instant you would - you're as much a diehard as I am (and have been for longer yet).

I get your point, Radish. But when most of your contributions to Mariners threads are to call us pathetic, I stop listening. That's not discussion, that's just throwing insults. I'm not going to stop loving the Mariners, and showing up once every several pages to announce that I should be ashamed of myself or that my fandom is pathetic doesn't generate conversation. Of course you'll post what you want, and so will I, and we will both continue to love the Hawks and live and die with that team, and I will of course keep my replies appropriate for the forum we're in.

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Good post. We will love the team that we call ours. But being called pathetic for it, is rather personal. Shall we continue a mariner thread in the shack Raddish?[/quote]


You poor babys get so bent out of shape if someone disagrees with you. lol You expect to say what you want but heaven forbid someone else says what they think if you don't agree.

Your opinions, my opinions=same value.

If you can keep saying you love the Ms I keep saying I don't like them. Strangely enough I don't like them because of the way they treat you the fan. You don't like me because I have a different take than you. Yes I think they suck and have for a long time.

You need thicker skin if you want to be a Mariners fan.

:roll:

:roll:

If you genuinely don't understand the difference between disagreeing and insulting, and how this applies to the posts you have been making, then there is no honest discourse to be had on this topic.

Erasmo Ramirez starts today, fingers crossed.

jkitsune":2sylcoac said:

If you genuinely don't understand the difference between disagreeing and insulting, and how this applies to the posts you have been making, then there is no honest discourse to be had on this topic.

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So my disagrements are insults? But yours aren't right?? lol

I certainly do understand the difference between disagrements and insults. I disagree with your opinion which is my right. I'm insulted that the Mariners treat their fans so badly.

And if you don't think they are treating you badly, I feel for you but accept you want to love your baseball. I too used to feel that way. When I was growing up there was always a game on, didn't matter who was playing you were glad to listen to anyone.

But the players strikes and attitudes and off the field problems got to me and after the last strike they lost me forever. Not the players as much as the owners but still pretty close. So if you think my not liking the way they do things is insulting,,,so what? Everyone on this board has an opinion and if you want me to accept yours then you have to accept mine.

I laugh at you kids that come in here and get all insulted if someone doesn't love the teams you love. This is a sports board for Christ's sake not your back yard.

So this Steve Delabar guy that made the allstar game.. how did we let him go? Trade him for a bag of potato chips? just release him ?

I don't follow the Ms much but i'd like to know what happend here hah.

TheRealDTM":1pkps5tr said:

So this Steve Delabar guy that made the allstar game.. how did we let him go? Trade him for a bag of potato chips? just release him ?

I don't follow the Ms much but i'd like to know what happend here hah.

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All I could find was that he was involved in a trade that brought Eric Thames here, and was sent to the Jays.

Yup

Mariners are notorious for trading players that end up being productive for other teams. R.A. Dickey won a CY Young but couldn't do squat when he was here. Doug Fister was a good pitcher here but they traded him for bag of manure, Michael Pineda for a PED user in Triple AAA who can't hit or catch. Adam Jones and bunch of others for Bedard. Shin-Choo Soo, Asdrubal Cabrera to Cleveland for Franklin G. (never healthy).

The Bedard one still pisses me off.

hawkfan68":1cacge29 said:

Mariners are notorious for trading players that end up being productive for other teams. R.A. Dickey won a CY Young but couldn't do squat when he was here. Doug Fister was a good pitcher here but they traded him for bag of manure, Michael Pineda for a PED user in Triple AAA who can't hit or catch. Adam Jones and bunch of others for Bedard. Shin-Choo Soo, Asdrubal Cabrera to Cleveland for Franklin G. (never healthy).

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Actually, Franklin was a pickup from the JJ Putz trade (which, on the whole, likely turned out for the best for the M's).

Choo and Cabrera were traded for Eduardo Perez (I think his name was) and Ben Broussard by Bill Bavasi. They were atrocious trades at the time, but look positively prescient next to the Adam Jones debacle.

And yet another blown lead.. How do you contine to put up 6,7,8 runs a game and still lose.. ?