Johnny Manziel = Tebow 2.0, with issues

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Johnny Manziel = Tebow 2.0, with issues
Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:00 pm

  • Dudes crazy young. Not a lost cause yet, hopefully he pulls himself up, by his own accord or with help. In sure he wouldn't be the only kid to do stuff like this and still succeed.
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  • sturg78 wrote:Dudes crazy young. Not a lost cause yet, hopefully he pulls himself up, by his own accord or with help. In sure he wouldn't be the only kid to do stuff like this and still succeed.



    Your right, but that said its totally diffrent when a corner or RB does the stuff he is doing and when a Qb does it. He's held to a much higher standard, fair or not.
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  • Manziel had a great Redshirt Freshman campaign. I think this year will be a different story as defenses have had time to prepare for Manziel and Texas A&M. Additionally, his off field exploits as well as his blowups in practice leave you wondering where he stands mentally going into this season. This latest incident indicates he is all but ready to jump from College Station to the NFL.
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  • Kid's what, 20? He's going to do some really stupid stuff from time to time. I'll let him mature a little before writing him off just yet.
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  • You can nitpick Manziel, but for the most part he has a good NFL skillset. Even though he had a mountain of rushing yards last season, he's also the kind of QB that knows how to scramble to extend plays for completions. He checked through progressions with incredible ease for a freshman QB. He's a very similar player to Russell Wilson, except that Wilson had better technique, better athleticism, and ran in a compact manner compared to Manziel who runs very upright (but so does Kaepernick, and nobody cares about that flaw in his case).

    Manziel has incredible leadership talent and intangibles, but I would never compare him to Tebow since Manziel is not at all lacking as a passer. His arm is probably just average, but he has great touch and accuracy on his passes, and he's very smart with his decision making. His throwing motion isn't picture perfect, but throwing motion is one of the most over-scrutinized aspects in scouting, IMO. He's a natural QB, even if he's only six feet tall and plays with a throwback style.

    Most quarterbacks struggle with the fundamentals and achieve success in spurts, even in the NFL I'd say that's true for at least half the starting QBs. Manziel didn't, even as a college freshman. He's an artist out there. Sometimes it takes a relaxed eye to see the obvious.

    I'm very curious to see where Manziel goes. I could see him going top 15 or I could see him going 5th round depending on how the pre-draft hype machine spins. All I know is, if he's there on day 3 in next year's draft, Seattle better not pass on the chance to get him.
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  • I'm totally torn on Manziel. There are times when I think he's the best prospect in awhile if in the right system, then there are other times where I think he has no chance to be an NFL qb.

    I love his leadership skills on the field, but I absolutely hate his persona off the field for a QB. Seems very Matt Leinartish. In college he can get by on his athleticism, but that wont always work in the NFL. Will he have the work ethic to work on his craft like a Russell Wilson does? Hopefully like others have said its just immaturity from being young.

    I think he'll be either a really high boom, or a really big bust, I don't see much middle ground for him.
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  • I bet he goes to the combine and measures in at 5'11 195 with 4.65 speed.
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  • JSeahawks wrote:I'm totally torn on Manziel. There are times when I think he's the best prospect in awhile if in the right system, then there are other times where I think he has no chance to be an NFL qb.

    I love his leadership skills on the field, but I absolutely hate his persona off the field for a QB. Seems very Matt Leinartish. In college he can get by on his athleticism, but that wont always work in the NFL. Will he have the work ethic to work on his craft like a Russell Wilson does? Hopefully like others have said its just immaturity from being young.

    I think he'll be either a really high boom, or a really big bust, I don't see much middle ground for him.


    Personally, I don't think Manziel comes across as immature, I just think he hates being a mega celebrity (which I find 100% understandable). Personally, I'd much rather have a QB who hates being a celebrity than one who throws himself $200,000 birthday parties or does Superman celebrations after running for 8 yards on 3rd and 10. I think he's just someone that loves football but doesn't love some of the things that come with success.

    CPHawk wrote:I bet he goes to the combine and measures in at 5'11 195 with 4.65 speed.


    I think he'll probably add some weight for the combine, but otherwise I think those numbers are very close. He looks like a 4.65-4.70 type athlete to my eye, but it's very hard to judge speed on tape with any kind of precision.
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  • Tebow? I've tried reaching many directions and can't put that one together. In what way is comparable to Tebow? Because they've both won the Heisman? I haven't seen quite enough yet of him to make a true guess as to his NFL future, but he has the right throwing motion. He does run too often for my likings, but he's faster than 4.65. I'll take 4.52 or faster in the pool. Looks like he's accurate and has a natural feel for when to fire and when to use touch. I do agree that he has to mature. He isn't handling the fame very well. What happens if he gets drafted by a team with a big spotlight and tough critics? I think there is some concern there. But as a redshirt frosh the kid won the Heisman. He's got to be doing something right.

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  • The guy that he reminds me of is Tommie Frazier from Nebraska back in the 90's.

    Frazier didn't have very good throwing stats but I think in todays modern day spread offenses he would have put up much better passing numbers then he did in the old wishbone, true option offense.
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  • Disappointed in this.
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  • Jeff Garcia 2.0. Some of you guys are comical with your "analysis". Garcia played against us for a couple years. Must be new Seahawk fans.
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  • Doug Farrar had an article on scouting Manziel today.

    On a side note, there's one thing about Manziel that hasn't been talked about almost at all but I think is pretty important. His running instincts give him elite elusiveness in the open field, and he has good balance and resilience as a runner too. As a runner, he's a bit like Golden Tate. He runs upright but with good balance, is resistant to tacklers who try to push him down instead of wrapping up, and (this is the part almost nobody talks about ->) he has a very special ability to run right at a tackler and have them badly whiff on the tackle anyway. It's as if he knows the future and knows the exact spot and time where he needs to be to make tacklers over-pursue him. I've never seen a runner run around defenders with a smaller travel arc than Manziel's. It's as if he just runs right by people, and he does this over and over and over.
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  • The best way to describe Manziel came from a Rams fan I spoke to in April... where he basically said he plays the game like he's saying "Oh shit, Oh shit, Oh shit..." in his head after the snap. It's a kind of frantic, winging it style that's unconventional, exciting, but loaded with question marks.

    He can improvise which is the single most underrated quality in a quarterback IMO. But at the same time I wonder how effective he can be when tasked to just get the ball to A, B or C quickly and accurately. If option A isn't there is he going to start roaming around in the pocket instead of going to B? Is he capable of just sitting there and running through his progressions? Because from what I've seen of him, he's beyond impatient. RGIII and Wilson are incredible in terms of athleticism, arm talent and intelligence so you tolerate it when they start roaming around. They also do the simple things brilliantly. Can Manziel get anywhere close to that same level to make him equally effective in those breakdown situations? I'm not sure, yet.

    And putting Tweets out complaining about your life in his position suggests he needs to get a grip. I know kids his age all make mistakes and he'll learn. There's a lot of expectation and pressure on his shoulders. But come on. If he's even thinking, "poor me" as a Heisman Trophy winner from a wealthy family who has to deal with being hugely popular on campus... that bothers me. Luck, Wilson and RGIII appeared to thrive in their high pressure environments.
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  • ^ I get what you are saying about Luck, Wilson and Griffin but I think the attention and all that might be a little more at College Station. Its a smaller place and its Texas. Griffin may have faced something remotely similar IDK. Baylor was irellevant before him so I couldn't really say. I'm not saying he shoild get a total pass but the circimastnces are a little different. That is not to say any of the other three would have acted the way he has because I don't believe that at all.
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  • kearly wrote:...he has a very special ability to run right at a tackler and have them badly whiff on the tackle anyway. It's as if he knows the future and knows the exact spot and time where he needs to be to make tacklers over-pursue him. I've never seen a runner run around defenders with a smaller travel arc than Manziel's. It's as if he just runs right by people, and he does this over and over and over.


    I rewatched some of his running highlights and I see exactly what you're talking about. I've seen it before. When I was a teenager, the best athlete at my school, Brian Beecroft, had the same ability and he could do it dribbling full speed on a basketball court too. It was literally unstoppable and made you feel completely helpless every time. It was like magic. If you watch Manziel closely on those runs where he goes right by a guy like they're standing still, he does a super subtle, super quick eurostep where he fakes like he's going outside, plants and goes just inside. Doing this while maintaing top forward speed makes it impossible to react to in time, it just freezes you.

    Here's three from the highlight videos I just watched, but these weren't the only ones, my gif creator just crapped out on some of them:

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    and:

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    and:

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    This is a good example of his general technique:

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    Last edited by formido on Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:41 am, edited 3 times in total.
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  • kearly wrote:As a runner, he's a bit like Golden Tate. He runs upright but with good balance, is resistant to tacklers who try to push him down instead of wrapping up...


    I think running upright probably is what gives him such good balance, like with Golden Tate. Awhile ago I read an older European soccer player mentioning, in regards to practicing man-beaters, that most people don't realize what an advantage it is to maintain balance at all times. He said that he had been able to maintain an edge throughout his career over more athletically gifted players by following this principle. Adrian Peterson runs with a very balanced, upright posture. In the NBA, Steve Nash is always balanced and is able to beat faster players with ease.
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:The best way to describe Manziel came from a Rams fan I spoke to in April... where he basically said he plays the game like he's saying "Oh shit, Oh shit, Oh shit..." in his head after the snap. It's a kind of frantic, winging it style that's unconventional, exciting, but loaded with question marks.


    I think it might come off that way because we're not used to athleticism that comes in a certain package. Manziel is legitimately fast, just without long limbs and grace so it looks a little herky jerky. There's nothing inherently more suspect about it, though. When he gets into open space he runs away from college DBs. His 40 is going to be around Russell Wilson's, 4.5 or so. He's not outsmarting people, he's an athlete.

    Reminds me of a TrueHoop article on ESPN this year after Jeremy Lin scored 38 on San Antonio. The writer basically said the exact same thing, Lin was running around like a chicken with his head cut off, maybe trying harder than other players, and he wouldn't be able to keep it up. Fact is, at Lin's draft combine tests, he had a faster first step than Derrick Rose and John Wall, as well as faster 3/4 court speed. The Rocket's GM has accelerometers on their jerseys and Lin's the fastest player they've ever measured. He's not trying harder he's just more athletic. Manziel's not frantic, he's athletic.

    Manziel has another thing going for him: Giant hands. Russell Wilson just said in his interview this week that he thinks QBs have to have big hands. To prevent fumbles, make accurate passes, get perfect spin on the ball, and to be able to control the ball in rain and other inclement weather (e.g., late in the season), the bigger the better. Wilson said his hands are the equivalent of a dude 6'7"[1]. Despite being short like Wilson, Manziel's hands are the same size. A lot more people seem to be noticing this about Manziel pre-draft than they did with Wilson.

    It's funny to see that Manziel is almost a Wilson clone, but he's going to go 1 or 2 in the draft. What an influence media planted perceptions play in outcomes--lucky for us in this case!

    [1] When people say Kaepernick is more athletic than Wilson, I remember that Wilson has much larger hands and a better 10 yard split on his 40. Wilson's superior elusiveness and ball control are real athletic traits and Kap isn't the slam dunk better QB athlete it might appear at first glance.
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  • Nice Gifs Formido. I like the eurostep analogy too.

    Interesting insights regarding Jeremy Lin and Manziel's hand size (yet another reason for Manziel-Wilson comps). If Wilson turns into the QB I think he will next season, it could help ensure a first two rounds selection for Manziel, assuming GMs notice the similarities between the two. Everyone wanted the next Russell Wilson this year. Next year, they will REALLY want the next Russell Wilson after he tears up the league this season. Few quarterbacks are even worth the comparison, very few. But Manziel is one of them, IMO.

    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:The best way to describe Manziel came from a Rams fan I spoke to in April... where he basically said he plays the game like he's saying "Oh shit, Oh shit, Oh shit..." in his head after the snap.


    :lol:

    Pretty much, yeah.
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  • I have read all of your comparos and such, and I find them interesting. If you want to go from a maturity/mental standpoint, he's no Ryan Leaf. I don't see him as a Tommie Frazier either, because Frazier was the calmest man I've ever seen play the game. As far as skillset, he does run like Tommie though. Personality wise, they are much different. But Frazier may have been the best college QB to ever play the game (when you're going off of wins and leadership... Frazier is WAY up there... if you didn't see him play, then don't go looking at his stats and knocking me for that statement... Frazier was GREAT regardless of "combine" type of stats, arm strength, and so on).

    Charlie Ward is a guy that is very similar to Manziel in his skill set and athleticism. Charlie would have gotten a good shot in today's NFL and it was always funny to me when he was playing for the Knicks and referred to weekly as the best QB in New York (which was likely true considering who was starting for the Giants and Jets). Ward was an amazing talent, an amazing leader, and to me was what Russell Wilson was in college. A consumate leader, a workout warrior, a gym rat, a winner that did everything it took at all times and one of the finest athletes to ever play the sport.

    But on the side of Manziel that people are kind of picking at... he doesn't remind me of Tebow (he does in his ability to gain yards with his feet, but does it in an entirely different fashion, he finds lanes and busts through them, much like our own Russell Wilson, or like Charlie used to do).

    If I had to pick one guy that he just REMINDS me of in his demeanor, personality, and general attitude toward others and things in general, it would have to be Cade McNown. Not sure how many of you remember him and his exploits at UCLA, but they are eerily similar. A young kid that came in and just basically told everybody what the score was all the time, hung out at the playboy mansion, talked a LOT, threw a nice ball, moved around well, had kind of an elitist attitude (and why not? He was a GREAT college QB). He was smallish though and a lot of his game didn't translate very well, and a big part of that was his work ethic, which wasn't that great as he got by on talent. I think Manziel has a work ethic, but in a lot of ways he's having sort of a McNown-ish run with the media and fans this offseason after really coming in and blowing the doors off of everybody last year.

    Do I think Manziel can play in the NFL? For sure. I have no doubt. Do I think he needs to work on some things to become his very best? YES. Absolutely. Could he become the next Russ Wilson? That's entirely up to one person, and that's Johnny. He can be as good as he wants to be, and it was obvious before last season that he wanted to put in the work to be great. But is he satisfied with where he ended up and will just sort of ride out his college career now? I saw a kid do that. David Greene. We saw how that worked out. He just never improved as a college player, when he really showed a lot of "moxie" or whatever you want to call it early in his college career, but just never made the strides and leaps and bounds.

    Everybody loves to use the Tom Brady comparison, and they just as much love to use the Alex Smith comparisons when talking about QB's. Honestly... Johnny Manziel could become either guy. He had a year last year that was eeril similar to Smith's junior year at Utah. He surprised the national media (not the locals though) and he steamrolled everybody, all the way through a BCS game. He ran a similar offense and was dominant. But he was so much more mature in how he handled everything, and was about the same age as Manziel is now at that point. Smith graduated from college in a ridiculously short amount of time (like in the 18 months range according to some people I know well... he was so far ahead he could have graduated within a year of stepping foot on campus if he wanted to). Manziel however doesn't even want to step foot on campus, because to him it seems like a bother. He's just using college as the minor leagues, and that's fine. More power to him. Cam Newton did it and it worked out ok for him. Smith and Robert Griffin handled things a lot differently. And Brady was the anti-McNown/Greene because he improved every year, totally immersed himself in learning and improving at college and now is the chance where Manziel has an opportunity to step out of the shadow of every single guy I mentioned (and I realize it was WAY too many, but I've seen a lot of guys play and picked out different parts of their game and overall makeup to try to figure out which way another guy will go). Manziel can rewrite the record books. He can break every one of Tebow's records. He can be as great of a passer as Colt McCoy was in college (and like what he's done as a pro or not, McCoy was an absolutely legendary college QB and always will be). He could become like Troy Aikman in his ability to just win (Aikman was thought of as a prima donna and a "too good for his teammates, media, and everybody else" as well... and anybody who remembers the mess with him and Oklahoma and UCLA knows what I'm talking about).

    The future hasn't been written yet. If it were at this point in somebody's life, Cade McNown would be wrapping up a hall of fame career, David Greene would have been a solid NFL QB who won more than he lost, Tommie Frazier would have been the first QB to run a spread successfully in the NFL and ushered its use into the NFL 20 years earlier than it was, Charlie Ward would have been starting for the Jets and they might have actually won, Tom Brady would have been a practice squad player and bounce around the NFL as a journeyman backup like Josh McCown, Alex Smith would have dominated the NFL and won a few Superbowls by now, and Troy Aikman would have been seen as a malcontent and Jeff George'd himself out of the league being known as a pompous ass.

    It will certainly be interesting to watch. If I had to bet? I'd say that Manziel will put in the work to be the best he can possibly be and will get a chance to start for an NFL team and they'll see if he can handle it. Teams NEED to do this at this point because of how much salary QB's are making. So he'll get his shot. Reading this mish-mash I wrote though I find it really a drag that Charlie Ward never gave it a go (or was told he'd never really get a chance) and that Tommie Frazier had the blood clot issues that ended his career before anybody even saw if a QB with his skillset had a place in the NFL in those days (He would now... those days, not really). But it sure would have been nice to at least find out. I hated Nebraska, but Tommie Frazier put on a clinic every week of what it took to lead a team to greatness. There's a lot of Tommie in Russell Wilson and that's why I'm damn glad he's on our team. :)
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  • Well he did beat up a guy last summer, maybe mentally he is the next Ryan Leaf.
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  • Ryan Leaf never beat anybody up. The guy was a sissy. He had less muscle definition than most of us on this board. Leaf was a drug addict. It became very apparent as he became a terrible flake and then spent the remainder of his life trying to be put in positions where he had access to drugs. He stole them from his players when he was a coach. That wasn't a "first time mixup". This is somebody who has had a problem for a long long time. He claimed it was because of the hand injury. That hand injury happened while he was in San Diego.

    I remember when he signed with the Hawks and he had a hole in his hand where the bones were shattered and the ligaments just sort of blew up. I've torn that same area up playing baseball (about 1/100 as bad as his injury was) and I can say the pain is absolutely excruciating. My bones that meet up at the wrist and end of forearm are still pointing up funny and the wrist still hurts fifteen years after tearing all of the cartilage and snapping the end of the bone off on a swing. So I can understand a bit of how much pain he was in. Then the doctors goofed it when trying to fix it. Massive intractable pain can fry a person's brain. They just lose it completely. I've been there. Luckily I haven't turned into an addict, but I know that the pain makes me act like a complete jerk.

    I think Leaf's issues were much deeper than Johnny Manziel's obvious "big man on campus with little man syndrome".
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  • I think Johnny Manziel is much more like Fran Tarkenton than Russell Wilson is. First, Tarkenton was competitive to a fault and was well known for being impatient or rude to people. Checkbox, Manziel. Tarkenton was a reckless scrambler who often played out of control. Checkbox, Manziel. Tarkenton had a mildly unconventional delivery and was not afraid to "Favre" it when he didn't have the time or luxury to set his feet, but unlike most QBs, those passes actually worked. Checkbox, Manziel.

    In the current NFL, Wilson comes the closest to Tarkenton so that's why I've said that if you want the next Wilson, draft Manziel. But I think if we are talking all QBs all time- Tarkenton pretty much nails it.
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  • Watched Texas A&M vs LSU from last year today.

    Really don't like seeing him changing hands, throwing left handed straight to a wide open cornerback who drops the ball. That was an error-strewn game. Not all bad because he made a few plays. But the guy takes so many chances. If we're making any comparison to Wilson -- I think that's where they are a million miles apart. Wilson's chances seem so much more calculated... he minimises risk and plays the percentages while still maintaining an explosive playmaking quality. Manziel looks like a chancer. He also hasn't got the arm talent Wilson has. I don't know. I'm completely unconvinced he's going to go as early as some people think. He's without doubt the player I'll look forward to watching the most in college football this year... he's box office viewing. But I'm not sure I'd be drafting him anywhere near round one for my football team. Teddy Bridgewater is on a different level for me.
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  • He strikes me as a more dynamic, athletic and instinctual Doug Flutie. We'll never know what Flutie couldve been.

    Farrar nails JM's tao understanding of open space.
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Watched Texas A&M vs LSU from last year today.

    Really don't like seeing him changing hands, throwing left handed straight to a wide open cornerback who drops the ball. That was an error-strewn game. Not all bad because he made a few plays. But the guy takes so many chances. If we're making any comparison to Wilson -- I think that's where they are a million miles apart. Wilson's chances seem so much more calculated... he minimises risk and plays the percentages while still maintaining an explosive playmaking quality. Manziel looks like a chancer. He also hasn't got the arm talent Wilson has. I don't know. I'm completely unconvinced he's going to go as early as some people think. He's without doubt the player I'll look forward to watching the most in college football this year... he's box office viewing. But I'm not sure I'd be drafting him anywhere near round one for my football team. Teddy Bridgewater is on a different level for me.



    I would expect JM to become "smarter" with taking chances as he matures.

    Are you comparing JM to Wilson as a pro, or when he was at NC in '08-'09?
    And this post is not directed at anyone personally.
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  • Manziel was on the NIke campus today in Beaverton as a coach at the Elite 11/The Opening camp. One of the "in the know" guys at my Ducks board had this to say about him:

    To start, there's a sh!t load of talent on that field. Before I get into the HS QB's, I gotta tell you about the college players coachng. First off, Johnny Football looks like a walk on FB, I shit you not. I was blown away when I figured out who he was. I honestly thought," Man, that FB looking guy can spin it. Who in the hell is that?". He looks much bigger on TV..... Seriously though, you wouldn't believe how short Manziel is.
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  • He looks 5'11" and change on TV to me. Skinny too. Wouldn't be surprised if he added some serious muscle this offseason though. He needs it.

    Gonna be really fun to see where he gets drafted.
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  • He probably owes Russell Wilson a fruit basket or a thank you card for showing that short Qb's can have success in the league (although Bree's already proved that, imo).
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  • DTexHawk wrote:
    I would expect JM to become "smarter" with taking chances as he matures.

    Are you comparing JM to Wilson as a pro, or when he was at NC in '08-'09?


    Wilson in college.

    In 2008 Russell Wilson as a first year starter threw one interception compared to 21 total touchdowns. The highest number of turnovers he had was 2010 when he had 14 to go with 37 total touchdowns... and that was a very inconsistent and frustrating NC State outfit that year. When placed in a strong contender, he reverted back to only four picks and 39 touchdowns.

    Throughout his career he showed the ability to make strong decisions and limit turnovers. It seems to me to be a natural thing with him - almost certainly down to the legendary work ethic and preparation we've come to know since he arrived in Seattle. And it's something Manziel doesn't flash to the same extent. That's not to say he can't continue to develop in that area or dedicate himself to Wilson's extent, but then you probably take away a significant part of his game. He is by nature a chancer. The lack of control on his ability to improvise makes him a better player. I think him not knowing what he's going to do sometimes makes him difficult to plan against. He doesn't have amazing arm talent and he's not a difference maker as a pure pocket passer. It's his ability to move around, extend plays and break off the improbable that makes him very effective IMO. The big question for me is whether that translates. Is he 'that' good at it to break conventions in the NFL in the same way Wilson did with his height. I'm not sure he is.

    If I needed a QB next year and it was a toss up between Bridgewater and Manziel, I would take Bridgewater every time.
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  • Seems like peoples opinion on this board is Wilson somehow opened the door for short QBs in the NFL.IMO the fact still stands,height matters.What Wilson,Brees or Flutie accomplished is even more amazing because they overcame those obstacles.
    What Wilson is doing only proves Wilson can do it at 5 10.Wilson is 1 of a kind.
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:If true... oh dear...

    http://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/7/1 ... nning-camp


    If true, maybe this can be a wake-up call.

    Certainly better than a DUI or something along those lines.
    And this post is not directed at anyone personally.
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  • Wakeup call? He keeps doing the same stuff over and over. Like I said before, if he was a safety or LB or some other position player doing this crap, I would still draft him without a doubt. But being the leader of your team, it's a gamble at this point.
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  • Report: Manziel sent home from Manning camp

    Texas A&M redshirt sophomore QB Johnny Manziel was sent home from the Manning Passing Academy, according to Yard Barker.
    The report states Archie Manning sent Manziel home for a number of reasons. The Aggie quarterback apparently showed up late on Saturday after spending "a night on the town" on Friday. "Camp officials told local media that Manziel 'is sick' and was no longer at the camp," the report states. "But our source claims he was kicked out." The site updated their original post, adding Manziel missed multiple meetings on Saturday morning without informing anyone of his absence. "Most people at the camp assume he simply slept through them."


    Sounds like a winner. Im interested to see how the Manziel lovers spin this. :0190l: :34853_doh: :thirishdrinkers:
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  • kearly wrote:I think Johnny Manziel is much more like Fran Tarkenton than Russell Wilson is. First, Tarkenton was competitive to a fault and was well known for being impatient or rude to people. Checkbox, Manziel. Tarkenton was a reckless scrambler who often played out of control. Checkbox, Manziel. Tarkenton had a mildly unconventional delivery and was not afraid to "Favre" it when he didn't have the time or luxury to set his feet, but unlike most QBs, those passes actually worked. Checkbox, Manziel.

    In the current NFL, Wilson comes the closest to Tarkenton so that's why I've said that if you want the next Wilson, draft Manziel. But I think if we are talking all QBs all time- Tarkenton pretty much nails it.


    :thirishdrinkers: :sarcasm_off: but wanted to quote it for the future.

    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Watched Texas A&M vs LSU from last year today.

    Really don't like seeing him changing hands, throwing left handed straight to a wide open cornerback who drops the ball. That was an error-strewn game. Not all bad because he made a few plays. But the guy takes so many chances. If we're making any comparison to Wilson -- I think that's where they are a million miles apart. Wilson's chances seem so much more calculated... he minimises risk and plays the percentages while still maintaining an explosive playmaking quality. Manziel looks like a chancer. He also hasn't got the arm talent Wilson has. I don't know. I'm completely unconvinced he's going to go as early as some people think. He's without doubt the player I'll look forward to watching the most in college football this year... he's box office viewing. But I'm not sure I'd be drafting him anywhere near round one for my football team. Teddy Bridgewater is on a different level for me.


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  • CPHawk wrote:Wakeup call? He keeps doing the same stuff over and over. Like I said before, if he was a safety or LB or some other position player doing this crap, I would still draft him without a doubt. But being the leader of your team, it's a gamble at this point.


    D-Tex is the resident A&M fan. And unfortunately just like that guy who liked Notre Dame and the other guy who liked Texas, will always put a positive slant on a piece of possible news like this.

    Although I think, "at least it wasn't a DUI" suggests some kind of league table for 'bad things'. Maybe if he ever gets a DUI we can be reassured he didn't go on a Grand Theft Auto style rampage, or that he didn't instigate a nuclear war.

    Rest assured NFL teams will know exactly why he left that camp by next year, for better or worse.
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  • It interests me that despite Manziel's removal from the Manning training camp, then NFL Network continues to show him throwing and working with the kids. However, I also noticed that the host asked Mike Mayock about him, and Mayock mentioned how he had no idea where Manziel was for a few days.

    Also, I think after this year, now that the Heisman has also put this kid in the limelight, and thus under more intense scrutiny, he's going to see his stock drop - possibly precipitously. If that's the case, I can see him staying at A&M for another year after this one to rebuild his image. If he puts 2 and 2 together.
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  • My point with the wakeup call was that teenagers, particularly those who have received "favored" treatment while growing up, don't listen to authority. Whether it is their hs teachers, coaches, local sheriff, etc...

    Maybe with this action by the Mannings (who carry a little more weight as far as the next level) will get Manziel to grow up and start focusing on what it takes to get to the next level.

    As to this:

    "will always put a positive slant on a piece of possible news like this."

    when you posted it, it was still just a rumor by a internet blog, which is why it was "a piece of possible news".
    And this post is not directed at anyone personally.
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  • He plead guilty to a 2012 misdemeanor today. Just thought I would keep things updated. Tebow 2.0 with issues.
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  • This kid seems like he can't handle the fame. I'm with T-Sizzle, I'd avoid this guy at all costs. He's going to be compared to Russell Wilson a lot just because they're both short and its laughable. Wilson is mature, this kid is not
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  • JSeahawks wrote:He probably owes Russell Wilson a fruit basket or a thank you card for showing that short Qb's can have success in the league (although Bree's already proved that, imo).


    Short QB's with unbelievable poise, maturity and work ethic. Not to mention mechanics and a killer arm.

    Manziel doesn't seem to possess any of these things.
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  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    JSeahawks wrote:He probably owes Russell Wilson a fruit basket or a thank you card for showing that short Qb's can have success in the league (although Bree's already proved that, imo).


    Short QB's with unbelievable poise, maturity and work ethic. Not to mention mechanics and a killer arm.

    Manziel doesn't seem to possess any of these things.

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  • Sounds like that wasn't the only issue he had at the camp. Reports are coming out that he had a hard time being on time to anything there. Something tells me he's not a first guy to the facility everyday type.
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  • CPHawk wrote:Sounds like that wasn't the only issue he had at the camp. Reports are coming out that he had a hard time being on time to anything there. Something tells me he's not a first guy to the facility everyday type.


    Which is an underrated part of Wilson's game, at least among the national media.

    Wilson has a lot of unnatural physical characteristics for his height (big hands, strong arm etc) but he just might be the hardest working guy in the NFL and that counts for something. He knows he'll always face at least some kind of battle due to the height, and he's compensating. And it's probably because he works so hard behind the scenes that he's so comfortable with the spotlight on him. He's so prepared, nothing can faze him.

    Manziel might not have to match Wilson's unbelievable work ethic but he has to give it a go. He isn't going to be able to 'wing it' in the NFL, running around like his hair is on fire. Hard to disagree with those saying he gives off the vibe of a guy who is struggling to handle being in the limelight.
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  • After having the character of player like RW, it's hard to look at a guy like Manziel and say "this is the guy I want running my team."
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  • Johny Football goes #1 or #2 (Bridgewater might go ahead of him) next season. There is no doubt.
    The kid has a natural instinct for playing QB. Everything he does so far comes very easy to him. The rest is coach-able. Johny football is a joy to watch. Simply an amazing talent.
    He is a marketing machine for whoever drafts him next season (Jacksonville, Eagles, Cardinals, Cleveland, Oakland, ...). Why would any team pass on him? He has made Texas AM lots of $$$ already.
    Regardless of what his off the field issues are, he has the right genes...Drafting a QB #1 is no longer a financial heavy weight on teams because of the new CBA. There is NO WAY he slips pass #2 in the draft next season, no way.
    We have all been 20, we have all partied, had a few beers, faked IDs, done crazy things, .. etc. This is all media garbage. They should leave the kid alone. He can afford the $200k parties. He can afford expensive cars, what's wrong with that?
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  • joeseahawks wrote:Johny Football goes #1 or #2 (Bridgewater might go ahead of him) next season. There is no doubt.
    The kid has a natural instinct for playing QB. Everything he does so far comes very easy to him. The rest is coach-able. Johny football is a joy to watch. Simply an amazing talent.
    He is a marketing machine for whoever drafts him next season (Jacksonville, Eagles, Cardinals, Cleveland, Oakland, ...). Why would any team pass on him? He has made Texas AM lots of $$$ already.
    Regardless of what his off the field issues are, he has the right genes...Drafting a QB #1 is no longer a financial heavy weight on teams because of the new CBA. There is NO WAY he slips pass #2 in the draft next season, no way.
    We have all been 20, we have all partied, had a few beers, faked IDs, done crazy things, .. etc. This is all media garbage. They should leave the kid alone. He can afford the $200k parties. He can afford expensive cars, what's wrong with that?



    Apologies Joe, but this is one of the worst posts I've ever read in the draft forum.

    1. What exactly is a natural instinct for playing QB? I would argue a natural instinct would mean you're a competent pocket passer (much like Andrew Luck) or that at least people would list passing and accuracy as your #1 feature. Manziel's greatest quality is without doubt his ability to improvise and not his ability in the pocket. If anything, I'd argue Manziel goes against the grain. I think writing off his issues (and there are a few) as "coachable" is a little too optimistic. Mechanically he is not a sound QB.

    2. Making money is no reason to draft a QB. I mean, nobody with any shred of credibility will draft a player based on financial reasons. You name check Jacksonville as a team that would draft him for the cash. If the Jags were really that bothered about making money, Tim Tebow would be their current starter.

    3. You can't just write off his issues by saying he has the right genes. Having the right genes means absolutely nothing if you aren't responsible and prepared to make the most of any natural talent you might have.

    4. I think the argument that he's "just being 20" is ridiculous. Yes, we've all been 20 and done crazy things. It's also not a valid excuse for doing something extremely dumb. For starters I (like most 20 year olds) was never a prospective NFL QB intending to earn a million dollar contract via the draft. Manziel has a lot more to lose than 99.9% of the other college kids in the world. When I went out and got drunk at University and missed a lecture the next day, I wasn't attending the Manning Passing Academy. And prior to major events in my life that are perhaps comparable to attending the MPA (work opportunities, interviews etc) like the vast majority of people I'm not out until 4am and then sleeping in the next day. If he'd partied and missed a regular class at A&M I could stomach this argument. But this wasn't just another day for Manziel. He HAD to know what was at stake here. Getting sent home from the MPA is not acceptable and makes him look like a dufus with no control. It's not just another college lecture he's missing after a long night of fun. Quite rightly, his judgement and maturity is being called into question.

    5. If we're making excuses for him aged 20, when does it stop? He's not a teenager anymore. Time to grow up and get some responsibility.

    6. Being able to afford 200K parties and expensive cars does not justify acting like a jack ass and will not wash with NFL front offices.

    7. If you can afford 200K parties, why not just go to New Orleans another time when you're not at the Manning Passing Academy? Talk about making life difficult for yourself.

    8. Teddy Bridgewater isn't just on another level mechanically, but he comes minus all of the character headaches we're starting to see with Manziel. There's only room for one QB in the top two because there's no way on earth Jadeveon Clowney makes it outside of the top couple of picks. I have no doubt what so ever Bridgewater will be the first QB taken next year, even at this early stage.

    Thankfully for Manziel he has a year of football to move on from this latest episode and get some momentum back. I hope for his sake he manages to do just that.
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