Johnny Manziel = Tebow 2.0, with issues

Discuss your thoughts about anything draft related. Mocks, College and Pro. Knock yourselves out!!! RATING: PG-13
  • I see him as Tebow / Ryan Leaf, drops to 3rd or 4th round because he's an idiot with an attitude.
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  • Again, I think people are trying to compare the kid to some type of machine. Every single player has some types of "Flaws". Remember when Cam Newton was in the draft? People kept saying "Well, he stole computers in college, he took money from people, he is this, he can't throw, he is not smart, he can't read defenses ... blah blah blah" and he was drafted #1, and he IS a franchise QB.
    The upside for Johny Football is too high for any team like Jacksonville to pass on him. Some other teams will stink this season and they will most likely decide to take a look at Johnny Manziel, who will bring instant hype with him.
    When I say "Natural QB" I mean things that a Brett Favre did. You don't teach that anywhere. Manziel can feel the pocket, he can make defenders miss almost effortlessly, he can create out of nothing , he can buy time for his receivers to get open, ... and I can go on and on and on. He can learn accuracy, he can add to arm strength. But what he already has available to him ... most QBs can't learn.
    Maziel will go #1 or #2.
    This kid dissected the best College Football Team without turnover ... and as a freshman ... come on.
    And please, stop comparing him to Tebow ... This is not the same thing.
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  • joeseahawks wrote:Again, I think people are trying to compare the kid to some type of machine. Every single player has some types of "Flaws". Remember when Cam Newton was in the draft? People kept saying "Well, he stole computers in college, he took money from people, he is this, he can't throw, he is not smart, he can't read defenses ... blah blah blah" and he was drafted #1, and he IS a franchise QB.
    The upside for Johny Football is too high for any team like Jacksonville to pass on him. Some other teams will stink this season and they will most likely decide to take a look at Johnny Manziel, who will bring instant hype with him.
    When I say "Natural QB" I mean things that a Brett Favre did. You don't teach that anywhere. Manziel can feel the pocket, he can make defenders miss almost effortlessly, he can create out of nothing , he can buy time for his receivers to get open, ... and I can go on and on and on. He can learn accuracy, he can add to arm strength. But what he already has available to him ... most QBs can't learn.
    Maziel will go #1 or #2.
    This kid dissected the best College Football Team without turnover ... and as a freshman ... come on.
    And please, stop comparing him to Tebow ... This is not the same thing.


    So expecting him not to stay out in New Orleans until 4am and attend the Manning Passing Academy on time as scheduled is unrealistic? That's thinking he's a machine?

    Nonsense.

    Likewise the comparison to Brett Favre. He was able to improvise and do a lot of crazy stuff, but he was fundamentally brilliant too. He was a prototype player in many ways on a technical and physical level. Manziel is not.

    As for learning accuracy and arm strength... I wish it was that easy.

    Did you go to Texas A&M by any chance?
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  • Lots of us (and the media) spend too much time over-analyzing these kids. I understand, it is feeding into talk radio, fans, forums and all. It generates ratings, it makes all of use sound like GMs and such ... and in a few years, we will all come and say "I told you so"...
    If he entered last year's draft, Johnny Football would have gone to KC or some team would have traded to get him very high. J M. is a play maker. Those don't grow on trees. With the emphasis placed on QB Mobility today, I don't see how a team with no Franchise QB like the Jaguars could pass on such a player. Yes, he got late for a meeting ... and what?
    I'm not saying those things don't matter, all I'm saying is they are blown out of proportion.
    Regardless of his flaws, he has some pretty darn good on the field performances under his belt already. He beat the best team in College football (with plenty of NFL ready players) and destroyed another one in their bowl game. He might have some flaws in his game or even his character, but seriously who doesn't?

    JM will be fine and he will be a top 2 pick next year's draft. No doubt about it.
    And NO I didn't go to A & M.
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    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:I've written a piece on this tonight, for anyone who still cares about this story: http://seahawksdraftblog.com/johnny-man ... -an-excuse
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  • Not sure what everyone sees in this kid. He's fleet of foot, but runs with a certain character I can only call "flamboyant". His mechanics stink like hot garbage on asphalt. His throws look almost like disco dance moves.
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  • Anyone mature enough to use the "I'm a 20 year old kid" excuse is to mature to use the "I'm a 20 year old kid" excuse. It's indication that you are aware of the flaws in your actions but just don't give enough of a damn to do anything but use a lame excuse to cover your actions. 20 year olds act like idiots because they don't know any better.

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  • I'm REALLY pulling for this kid. His instincts and tao understanding of "sandlot" ball is pretty damn fun to watch. In a society and culture full of phony faux-outrage over any individuality, I sure and hell hope he succeeds.

    He's a 20yo Heisman Winner in Texas. I actually find it refreshing he's out drinking and banging chicks. Its what 20yo's should do.

    There's an inherent hypocrisy here; "stay in school, enjoy college, but don't act like a college student, Johnny!". He's not a pro yet, he can do what he wants.

    I was a huge partier and VIP room blow n women type in my 20's. I owned it and made no apologies for it in my corporate life. The other VP's and execs knew and joked about it. No one cared because I did good work and advanced to roles it takes most 20 years to reach. I'm not trying to attention whore, honestly, its just there's more than one way to accomplish things in life. Be yourself, but do your job. If its natural enough of a gig, you'll succeed.
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  • pehawk wrote:I was a huge partier and VIP room blow n women type in my 20's. I owned it and made no apologies for it in my corporate life. The other VP's and execs knew and joked about it. No one cared because I did good work and advanced to roles it takes most 20 years to reach.



    And if you were missing meetings, sleeping in or getting sent home, they probably would've felt differently... no?
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  • pehawk wrote:I'm REALLY pulling for this kid. His instincts and tao understanding of "sandlot" ball is pretty damn fun to watch. In a society and culture full of phony faux-outrage over any individuality, I sure and hell hope he succeeds.

    He's a 20yo Heisman Winner in Texas. I actually find it refreshing he's out drinking and banging chicks. Its what 20yo's should do.

    There's an inherent hypocrisy here; "stay in school, enjoy college, but don't act like a college student, Johnny!". He's not a pro yet, he can do what he wants.

    I was a huge partier and VIP room blow n women type in my 20's. I owned it and made no apologies for it in my corporate life. The other VP's and execs knew and joked about it. No one cared because I did good work and advanced to roles it takes most 20 years to reach. I'm not trying to attention whore, honestly, its just there's more than one way to accomplish things in life. Be yourself, but do your job. If its natural enough of a gig, you'll succeed.


    You're looking at this situation from the vantage point of a survivor. What about all the twentysomethings who partied hardy and didn't make it like you did? What you've done is only applicable here if it's the norm, and I'd very much guess it's not. Manziel is not avoiding the types of mistakes that have led other highly touted college players to fail.

    Further reading about survivor bias, if you're curious: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2013/05/23/ ... ship-bias/
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  • To English; Manziel fell asleep at Manning's Fruity Academy. He hasn't let it slip over on Saturdays (yet).

    To 83, its coming from a "natural talent" perspective. JM's genius, seriously genius, on the football field. Maybe if it comes so easy to him, he won't have to work as hard. JJ Watt didn't have to work as hard as Craig Terrell, because Watt's genius at his job.

    I'm pulling for him, and that's totally personal biased.
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  • To pehawk - he went on an all night bender, didn't show up the next day and was booted out. Allegedly.
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  • To English (you smartass) - yeah, I know, and it made me happy. He's Jonny Football, he doesn't need to kiss the ring of Downs Syndrome haircut or Eli Koopa Troopa.

    We'll see how it plays out. I think he can do it.
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:To pehawk - he went on an all night bender, didn't show up the next day and was booted out. Allegedly.


    Congratulations on your new prince!
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  • JSeahawks wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:To pehawk - he went on an all night bender, didn't show up the next day and was booted out. Allegedly.


    Congratulations on your new prince!


    Sweetie, let’s not go that far.

    It's just NOT your Papa's NFL anymore. Teams aren't running the WCO. Until its stopped, QB's are going to thrive on athleticism just as much as smarts. Now, maybe it's a fad like the run and shoot? We'll see.

    And, in this new era of NFL QB's utilizing athleticism, Manziel maybe the most natural I've seen so far. While it may look frenetic, I'd bet to him everything's moving at a snails pace. He's genius...really...
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  • pehawk wrote:
    JSeahawks wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:To pehawk - he went on an all night bender, didn't show up the next day and was booted out. Allegedly.


    Congratulations on your new prince!


    Sweetie, let’s not go that far.

    It's just NOT your Papa's NFL anymore. Teams aren't running the WCO. Until its stopped, QB's are going to thrive on athleticism just as much as smarts. Now, maybe it's a fad like the run and shoot? We'll see.

    And, in this new era of NFL QB's utilizing athleticism, Manziel maybe the most natural I've seen so far. While it may look frenetic, I'd bet to him everything's moving at a snails pace. He's genius...really...


    Hey, I love Manziel on the field. I'm just worried he has too much Leinart in him. I'd love to see him succeed though. I was just congratulating English on the royal birth today. I'm sure he's lighting up cigars and such.
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  • Oh, jeez, I'm dumb.
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  • Why are College players constantly compared to NFL standards? In the NFL, it is their job to go out and play. They get a paycheck and contract for it. These kids in College are students first ... They are not getting paid for this. They need a life too.
    The media has invested billions into these college contracts, the kids aren't getting paid, now they want the kids to behave like if they are getting paid these billions? I say screw the media. Let the kids be kids. When they sign their professional contracts, now their bosses can tell them how to run their lives.
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  • I received a full scholarship to college and worked my ass off every day, every semester. Saying that these kids get nothing is the most moronic thing I may have ever read. What if there wasn't college football? What would Johnny Manziel receive? So.... he would be playing in the NFL minor leagues like other former high schoolers? OH WAIT, there is no such system. They receive a FREE education (Johnny F. decided not to attend classes on campus), and saying, "Well he's 20" is just stupid. Plenty of 20 year olds are intelligent and well behaved, especially when they are on a scholarship that asks them to follow through on something. THAT IS a contract.

    Do you know how much tuition, books, and housing would cost at most of these schools? I once looked into transferring to the U of Miami and tuition was around $50,000 a year. Seriously. Do those kids "Do it for free?"

    Johnny is receiving massive exposure, has an entire marketing department behind him at the school (and the school has an equipment contract and television deals) that also help to boost his celebrity. Then he has trademarked things and is selling his own merchandise. NONE of that would have been possible had he not gotten a scholarship and the massive freebies from Texas A&M. He also wouldn't have been able to hit the buffet circuit and get so fat this offseason if it weren't for his publicity machine that is behind him. He's getting PLENTY out of this bargain, and he was rich to start with. Playing the game where the kid should be excused from any sense of responsibility or expectation of behavior is nutty.
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  • SharkHawk wrote:I received a full scholarship to college and worked my ass off every day, every semester. Saying that these kids get nothing is the most moronic thing I may have ever read. What if there wasn't college football? What would Johnny Manziel receive? So.... he would be playing in the NFL minor leagues like other former high schoolers? OH WAIT, there is no such system. They receive a FREE education (Johnny F. decided not to attend classes on campus), and saying, "Well he's 20" is just stupid. Plenty of 20 year olds are intelligent and well behaved, especially when they are on a scholarship that asks them to follow through on something. THAT IS a contract.

    Do you know how much tuition, books, and housing would cost at most of these schools? I once looked into transferring to the U of Miami and tuition was around $50,000 a year. Seriously. Do those kids "Do it for free?"

    Johnny is receiving massive exposure, has an entire marketing department behind him at the school (and the school has an equipment contract and television deals) that also help to boost his celebrity. Then he has trademarked things and is selling his own merchandise. NONE of that would have been possible had he not gotten a scholarship and the massive freebies from Texas A&M. He also wouldn't have been able to hit the buffet circuit and get so fat this offseason if it weren't for his publicity machine that is behind him. He's getting PLENTY out of this bargain, and he was rich to start with. Playing the game where the kid should be excused from any sense of responsibility or expectation of behavior is nutty.


    If there was no football, Maziel could have gone into the family business and been know as "Johnny cockfighter." :stirthepot:
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  • This is also purely overhyped because the game's so big now. Stabler, Starbauch, Marino, Montana, Elway mayve all been identical as a Freshman, and we'd never know. There's people on this board who grade HS kids, that wasn't around 20 years ago for anyone.
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  • I guarantee you that 90% of college QB's are insufferable pricks. You've got it right Pehawk. This kid just gets more exposure because he's actually a good QB. I know a girl who dated that dude who was on the Cowboys and was the predecessor to David Greene at Georgia. Quincy something? She said he was an awful person and "almost even a bigger douche than David was", but he got all of the free blow he wanted, and she wanted to partake, so she "dated" him for a couple of years. She talks about the QB's that came through Georgia as some kind of gods (she played volleyball and softball there, so they all took the same gimme classes). But she said they were also insufferable A-Holes. Even the backups were. To be starters they were just flat out impossible for anybody with common sense to deal with.

    I've met a few guys that were "the guy" in high school and college, and you're 100% right about what was going on in the old days. There was a reason Marino dropped like a rock in the "QB draft". There is a reason John Elway had to build his own bar to drink in (he was 'unofficially' banned from every establishment in Colorado for being an absolute boorish assclown that was continually harassing servers and assaulting people... remember, assault isn't battery, battery is when you hit somebody.... assault is verbal, and he did it A LOT).

    There is absolutely a sense of entitlement with athletes. It has grown more and more severe I think as times have changed and sports have replaced movies as where the "stars" reside. Just watch the ESPY's and all of the self-congratulations that goes on. It's as embarrassing as the Academy Awards or the Slammies (yeah, I said it).

    Sports stars have money, fame, prestige, and attention. They love it. The days of the million dollar price tag on athletes made it much more of a "thing" for sure. I don't think anybody was a bigger jerk and clown than Babe Ruth, but he was in an era where the media left him alone. Mickey Mantle was a complete ass. Read Joe Pepitone's book. Hell, read Mickey's own biography. Read "Cobb". Read up on any of those guys. All just major league jackholes. But they were great.

    I don't think we can expect many superstar athletes to handle fame as well as Russell Wilson. For every one of him, there are seemingly 100 Jim Druckenmillers in the world. Guys who think they are ten times better than they ever were and are still living on an invisible cloud of superiority. Jerramy Stevens quickly comes to mind. That guy is a real piece of work, but still thinks he's somehow important. At least I know I'm a loser.
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  • I've heard the same stories, through the same channels, girls who dated Pac-12 QB's.

    And Shark, no offense, but I find it pretty alarming you're hanging out with SEC types. Even if by default and via 3rd person.

    You're a MWC/WAC guy, and specifically a Utah man (although it is VERY SEC to marry the only sister in Utah). You guys play and watch football for honor, not money or loose women. I want to hear what John Beck's like, not Eric Zier, Shark.

    Kay?

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  • Shark you mean Quincy Carter? The coke head?
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  • I don't know why people like to use words like "entitled" when it comes to Athletes. These guys work hard, have developed skills and offer a product, that is consumed by millions of people every Saturday. This product generates billions for colleges and more billions in profits for networks like ESPN, Fox, ...etc.
    Why shouldn't they feel part of it? Why shouldn't they get rewarded for it? What's wrong with that?
    I'm one of those, who actually believe that these players should be paid serious money. Giving them "scholarships" to me, is exploitation. Go tell the shareholders of Apple Computer or Walmart, that they don't deserve the millions in profit they make, as people purchase their product.
    This is really getting ridiculous.
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    There is absolutely a sense of entitlement with athletes. It has grown more and more severe I think as times have changed and sports have replaced movies as where the "stars" reside. Just watch the ESPY's and all of the self-congratulations that goes on. It's as embarrassing as the Academy Awards or the Slammies (yeah, I said it).
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  • pehawk wrote:There's people on this board who grade HS kids, that wasn't around 20 years ago for anyone.


    Ummm... I'm pretty sure that's illegal in all 50 states, you sick bastard. Leave it to pe to take it there.
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  • Not illegal for me outside of 150 yards.
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  • I just want to point out how sick that last damning statement from pe was. Gotta love it.

    Not as sick as Manziel's game though. I get the concerns about him slowly morphing into Ryan Leaf 2.0, (comes fully equipped with locker room "Knock It Off" Meltdown Mode. Batteries not included) but the dude's a magician on the field. He's got that Russell Wilson 6th sense for the game that very few have ever had and very few will ever have. He's got it. What he doesn't have that the Russell Wilson's and ironically Eli and Peyton Manning's of the world have is that legendary work ethic. Doesn't mean he can't be good. Joe Namath, despite the overrated stats and penchant for partying, is still a Super Bowl champ. Jamarcus Russell, despite the miserable stats and avid love of partying and all things codeine, was an NFL starting Quarterback. Somewhere in the middle lies Johnny Manziel, with a touch of Russell Wilson and Doug Flutie sprinkled in for good measure.

    It's gonna be fun to see which road he travels. It could either be really awesome or a cautionary tale for a younger generation.
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  • NYCoug wrote:I just want to point out how sick that last damning statement from pe was. Gotta love it.

    Not as sick as Manziel's game though. I get the concerns about him slowly morphing into Ryan Leaf 2.0, (comes fully equipped with locker room "Knock It Off" Meltdown Mode. Batteries not included) but the dude's a magician on the field. He's got that Russell Wilson 6th sense for the game that very few have ever had and very few will ever have. He's got it. What he doesn't have that the Russell Wilson's and ironically Eli and Peyton Manning's of the world have is that legendary work ethic. Doesn't mean he can't be good. Joe Namath, despite the overrated stats and penchant for partying, is still a Super Bowl champ. Jamarcus Russell, despite the miserable stats and avid love of partying and all things codeine, was an NFL starting Quarterback. Somewhere in the middle lies Johnny Manziel, with a touch of Russell Wilson and Doug Flutie sprinkled in for good measure.

    It's gonna be fun to see which road he travels. It could either be really awesome or a cautionary tale for a younger generation.



    I really dont appreciate the fact you take what I'm trying to say and make it coherent and sensical, for once.

    Great post. You must've only under grad'd at WSU.
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  • More shenanigans. He pulled a Kaepernick and threw out the "Hook em Horns" sign onstage at an Austin concert. I'm sure Aggies fans will love that.

    Seeing him rockin the Tebow jersey kinda made me giggle though.

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  • pehawk wrote:I've heard the same stories, through the same channels, girls who dated Pac-12 QB's.

    And Shark, no offense, but I find it pretty alarming you're hanging out with SEC types. Even if by default and via 3rd person.

    You're a MWC/WAC guy, and specifically a Utah man (although it is VERY SEC to marry the only sister in Utah). You guys play and watch football for honor, not money or loose women. I want to hear what John Beck's like, not Eric Zier, Shark.

    Kay?

    XOXO

    Jimmer Fredette


    You're close Jimmer's Shorter Evil Twin... I LIVE in Utah, but I'm all Federal Way... School District No. 210 buddy. You can take a kid out of that dump, but you can't take that dump out of a kid. I would still be shooting bundled bottle rockets we bought on the rez into the lakefront houses and sinking people's boats and watching my friends get hammered for fun if my parents hadn't made an endrun out of there for all the right reasons when they did.

    Beck is an interesting guy, and I could seriously write a book on him. The big story about him was he cried a lot. That was true. The knock on him from scouts was that he had a "weak arm", which was absolute bunk. Beck had a freaking cannon. He could throw the ball 70 yards easily. Watch the last play he makes against Utah and the throw he nails off of his back foot and across his body to Jonny Harline in the endzone. Maybe 5 QB's in the college ranks could have made that throw, and he was one. But, he got rattled easy. He was always a little too worried about what people thought. He was a quiet leader. He wasn't Steve Young or Ty Detmer or Jim MacMahon, who all panned out in the NFL (Detmer to a lesser extent, but he played a long time when most people said he never would at all, and he even made a probowl). Those guys would grab facemasks and yell at a guy to get his f-ing head in the game or he wouldn't ever see a ball again. Watching Detmer from the front row against Miami when I was 17 was THE game that taught me everything about football that just somehow slipped past me through lack of good coaching and lack of a fundamental understanding of what I was even doing on the field due to poor coaches and a limited interest in anything besides hitting into people hard. You saw one guy (this little QB who was way smaller than me) grabbing 300 pounders and saying, "block that M------- F------ or I will personally kick your ass!" Vintage stuff. But I put a lot more emphasis on watching QB's after that day.

    The reason I know a lot about Georgia and Florida is because I played softball for a long time, and was only a class "C" rated USSSA player, but that is not too bad. C players are usually former college players and high school lettermen."D" and "E" players are considered 'recreational'. So "C" guys can play up one and play "B" which I did a few times, or play down one and play "D", which I did a lot and it was too easy. "B" is former minor leaguers and college division 1 baseball players. "A" or "Super Majors" (depending on sanctioning body) are restricted 'paid' ringers and former MLB players. Some guys are fully banned from playing slowpitch due to the liability issues. Like Jose Canseco decided to play slowpitch against guys I know when he was narcing on everybody for juicing, and the next day he was on the restricted list, but his brother Ozzie got placed on "A" or "Supermajors".

    Softball is weird and yet as all consuming and absolutely addicting as any drug. I've seen more families and lives ruined over slowpitch softball than I have over drugs, robberies, and infidelity (although that is the massive huge issue due to constant weekend travel and drunken debauchery) combined. Weird world. I'm glad I checked out of it a few years ago after my spine exploded and they couldn't rebuild my ankle for a fourth time. If not for that, I'd probably be living in Florida playing full time in the 40+ right now and getting paid by some company to 'work in IT' and play on their team like I did through college. Ringing is fun. But it is no way to live a life. I'm glad I'm a crippled mess with a wife and two kids and a nice home and a place to just die peacefully. It's good.

    So yeah... I'll watch the WAC/MWC and whatever is left of them and enjoy it and report back. BYU is independent now, but it's really a joke, because they are in the West Coast with Gonzaga and Pepperdine and others for every other sport now (sticking with the religious schools I guess), and then play MWC/WAC teams most of the season, but aren't bogged down with the conference TV deal anymore. So that's a bonus, but it's hard to build a schedule. Utah State will likely surpass them in quality within 5-10 years at this rate. Utah is far and above BYU now that they are in the PAC 8 (yes, I insist on calling them that... traitorous AZ schools jumping on the WAC like they did... bastards).

    My alma mater is Utah Valley University, and we officially joined the WAC this month, which is excellent. We have the facilities...we still have no football program. But I'm working on that. Baseball and basketball will likely surpass BYU consistently within 10 years as well due to our young alumni base that likes to fundraise and let the athletic department do their job instead of the way the Cougar Club runs. It's pathetic. Old whiteys telling the coaches to play their nephews or they'll stop giving money. What a joke. Glad BYU's hoops coach (Dave Rose) tells them to shove it, as does Bronco... but they'll be gone and get replaced with yes men soon enough.

    So yeah... go UVU. Hopefully I'll get the aquatic center built and named after my grandma as I'm working on. It's a hard slog, but it's starting off ok. I've got people talking. That's a start. My grandma is the best swimmer in state history and beat the US Olympic team when they came to town. She beat the gold medalist by about 6 lengths according to the stories, and was named the best athlete from 1900-1950 (all men and women) at one of the 4 Salt Lake City high schools. She was up against a few NFL and NBA and MLB and pro boxers. She was that damn good, and I hope we get the pool built in her name at UVU.

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  • JSeahawks wrote:Hey, I love Manziel on the field. I'm just worried he has too much Leinart in him. I'd love to see him succeed though. I was just congratulating English on the royal birth today. I'm sure he's lighting up cigars and such.


    I never heard that Leinart showed up late or was (allegedly) hung over and couldn't play/practice. Matt was a partier, but it never affected his work as far as I'm aware.
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  • sc85sis wrote:
    JSeahawks wrote:Hey, I love Manziel on the field. I'm just worried he has too much Leinart in him. I'd love to see him succeed though. I was just congratulating English on the royal birth today. I'm sure he's lighting up cigars and such.


    I never heard that Leinart showed up late or was (allegedly) hung over and couldn't play/practice. Matt was a partier, but it never affected his work as far as I'm aware.


    Haven't heard that Manziel showed up late or was hung over and couldn't play/practice with HIS team, which is all that matters.
    And this post is not directed at anyone personally.
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  • All this crap he is pulling means one thing: Manziel is a throwback to a bygone era. Favre had party issues. Namath had party issues.

    The kid is a g'dam freshman. let him grow up and see if his football continues to develop.
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  • Pretty revealing article to come out about Manziel next week in ESPN the magazine. Guess its pretty bad for him. Like I said....dude has issues, Ryan Leaf issues.
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  • I think I have changed my opinion about Manziel. I read the story espn did about him and his family ... huhmmm ....
    Dude and his family really have issues. Real attitude issues. These people don't live in the same world as most of us.
    I still believe he is an above average talent and can really be a productive player in the NFL. But his head is not in the right place for the demands of the NFL. I wouldn't go as far as comparing him to Ryan Leaf, but ... dude is very high maintenance and will demand a baby sitter to even perform basic things. I might imagine his career more like Jimmy Clausen than to a Ryan Leaf.
    Why people push to give him the Heisman Trophy after one single good game is simply beyond me.

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  • This should be fun.....
    http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/ ... autographs


    MIAMI -- The NCAA is investigating whether Heisman Trophy winner Johnny Manziel was paid for signing hundreds of autographs on photos and sports memorabilia in January, "Outside the Lines" has learned. Two sources tell "Outside the Lines" that the Texas A&M quarterback agreed to sign memorabilia in exchange for a five-figure flat fee during his trip to Miami for the Discover BCS National Championship. Both sources said they witnessed the signing, though neither saw the actual exchange of money.



    Three sources said Manziel signed photographs, footballs, mini football helmets and other items at the request of an autograph broker named Drew Tieman. Two sources, who are aware of the signing arrangement, told "Outside the Lines" that Tieman approached Manziel on Jan. 6, when he landed at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport to attend the game between Alabama and Notre Dame the next day.



    After that meeting, three sources said, Manziel, accompanied by his friend and personal assistant Nathan Fitch, visited Tieman's residence and signed hundreds of items in the main room of the apartment despite the fact that there were many people in the room. Before Manziel left South Florida, after taking in the title game, he signed hundreds of autographs more, one source said.



    The source also told "Outside the Lines" that James Garland, the NCAA's assistant director of enforcement, in June contacted Tieman and at least one person associated with the signings. The source said Garland, who did not return calls from "Outside the Lines" for comment, told the person that he wanted to talk about Manziel signing items that had appeared for sale on eBay. An NCAA spokeswoman cited NCAA policy to "Outside the Lines" and declined to comment.



    If the NCAA investigation finds that Manziel has violated NCAA Bylaw 12.5.2.1 -- accepting money for promoting or advertising the commercial sale of a product or service -- he could be ruled ineligible.

    Attempts to reach Manziel were unsuccessful. Tieman did not return multiple calls and text messages. Fitch could not be reached.



    In a statement, Jason Cook, Texas A&M's senior associate athletics director for external affairs, said "it is Texas A&M's longstanding practice not to respond to such questions concerning specific student-athletes."



    Texas A&M declined further comment.



    But A&M has responded to questions about Manziel and autographs before. On March 6, when ESPN.com contacted the school's compliance director, David Batson, to address a slew of Manziel-signed items that had flooded the memorabilia market, Batson provided a statement:



    "Johnny has indicated on numerous occasions and, once again earlier today, that he has never (and to his knowledge, his parents, other relatives and friends have ever) been compensated through cash or other benefits or promises of deferred compensation for providing his autograph," Batson wrote.



    While college athletes are frequently asked to sign autographs in public places, and those autographs often end up for sale on eBay, the amount of Manziel product that flooded the memorabilia market overall following the BCS title game was overwhelming, memorabilia dealers told "Outside the Lines."



    While Manziel's father, Paul, had alleged that many of the items were fake, two of the leading autograph authentication companies, PSA/DNA and JSA, have authenticated many of the items. Officials with both companies have told ESPN in recent months that they stand by their guarantee that they believe the signatures, some with inscriptions like "Gig 'Em" and "Heisman '12" are genuine. Online verification databases show a single lot of 999 signed Manziel photos numbered sequentially. JSA authenticated 248 items and 376 items that came in in two batches that also are numbered sequentially. Industry insiders say this indicates the signings were done in large quantities intended for wholesale.



    Calls and messages to Paul Manziel were not returned.



    Even though Manziel is not allowed to generate income from his signature, the Manziel family has sought to protect Johnny's business affairs by starting a corporation, JMAN2 Enterprises, which in February filed for the trademark to use "Johnny Football" when he was ready to leave the college game.



    The value of Manziel is clear in the memorabilia and appearance market: Independent merchandiser Aggieland Outfitters recently auctioned off six helmets signed by Manziel and Texas A&M's other Heisman Trophy winner, John David Crow, for $81,000. Texas A&M's booster organization, the 12th Man Foundation, sold a table for six, where Manziel and Crow will sit at the team's Kickoff Dinner later this month, for $20,000.



    The school has committed to renovating Kyle Field, which will push seating capacity to 102,500 by the time it is completed in 2015. Texas A&M officials have said that donors, who make annual contributions of $80,000 to $100,000, have purchased all but two of the 144 suites in the stadium.



    In the school's first year in the SEC last season, Manziel led the Aggies to an 11-2 season and a top-five finish for the first time since 1956. He and his teammates are scheduled to report Sunday afternoon for the 2013-14 season. He is scheduled to address the media Monday.



    Manziel's offseason has drawn heavy media scrutiny. In the past few months, he has been spotted in the front row at NBA games, hanging out with rappers at bars, and has written various headline-starting tweets, including one in which he said he couldn't wait to leave College Station -- the home of Texas A&M. He also was sent home early from the Manning Passing Academy last month.



    Paul Manziel recently told ESPN The Magazine that he doesn't like how the school hasn't protected the family from the NCAA and how he believes that school administrators put their motives above his son's well-being.



    "It's starting to get under our skin," he said. "They're so selfish."



    Manziel also acknowledged that he was concerned about his son's drinking and how he is dealing with celebrity.



    "Yeah, it could all come unraveled," Johnny's father told The Magazine. "And when it does, it's gonna be bad. Real bad."

    Justine Gubar is a producer in ESPN's enterprise unit.
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  • The dude is going to be a sophomore in college and people on here want to act like he's a 30-40 year old guy. Let the man have some fun while he can. LOL.

    The fact that he likes to party and have fun (like any college student) has had no negative affect on his performance on the field to this point, so it doesn't matter at all. IMO, he can do whatever he likes (legally) unless it negatively affect his performance.

    I don't see what the problem is, but you guys can hate all you want and he'll continue to shred your teams defense. I'm a UW student and fan, but Johnny football is awesome and I'd love to have him starting for the Dawgs.
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  • Like the guy above me said. He's going to be a Sophomore in college, that would make him what 19 years old? Like we really did do all that crap in college (or in my case way worse).

    Not every college QB is Russell Wilson.

    I think the only thing I disagree with is the possibility that he was trying to profit from autographs. Again it's still alleged. It's wrong because it's against the NCAA rules and he should know better if he did. From a personal stand point, I think profiting from autograph signings may be one of the only things college players should be allowed to profit from. Maybe the NCAA should figure out other ways to get players money without destroying the system...I dunno, they can do advertising for the school (i.e. some car commercial), school/NCAA gets the major profits, but they get paid $30/hour for their time while "working" something that isn't practice/game.
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  • Dawgs0 wrote:The dude is going to be a sophomore in college and people on here want to act like he's a 30-40 year old guy. Let the man have some fun while he can. LOL.


    If I see this one more time, I might have to go on a Manziel-style drinking binge myself.

    If Johnny Manziel wants the excuse of being a young college sophomore with a penchant for partying, that is fine. He can quit football and be a normal student. If he wants to be a first round pick, be paid millions of dollars and the face of a franchise, he's going to need to mature very, very quickly. It may be too late already.
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    Dawgs0 wrote:The dude is going to be a sophomore in college and people on here want to act like he's a 30-40 year old guy. Let the man have some fun while he can. LOL.


    If I see this one more time, I might have to go on a Manziel-style drinking binge myself.

    If Johnny Manziel wants the excuse of being a young college sophomore with a penchant for partying, that is fine. He can quit football and be a normal student. If he wants to be a first round pick, be paid millions of dollars and the face of a franchise, he's going to need to mature very, very quickly. It may be too late already.

    :13: This is his job interview and he is pissing it away....as expected though. Some guys are not smart enough to realize the opportunity they have.
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  • theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    Dawgs0 wrote:The dude is going to be a sophomore in college and people on here want to act like he's a 30-40 year old guy. Let the man have some fun while he can. LOL.


    If I see this one more time, I might have to go on a Manziel-style drinking binge myself.

    If Johnny Manziel wants the excuse of being a young college sophomore with a penchant for partying, that is fine. He can quit football and be a normal student. If he wants to be a first round pick, be paid millions of dollars and the face of a franchise, he's going to need to mature very, very quickly. It may be too late already.



    So when Colin Kaepernick is going out and having fun and partying, it's stopped him from having success? LOL. Or is Kaepernick not a face of a franchise?

    These guys are athletes not CEOs. What they do off the field, has very little bearing on their success. Partying is normal, even for NFL players.

    You act like you can only be a great player if you have a Russell Wilson type attitude. That's not the case.

    If Manziel continues to play great on the field, nobody will care what he does off the field. Nobody. "Off the field" has nothing to do with "on the field".

    If Manziel continues to get better "on the field" and plays well, then he'll "be a first round pick, be paid millions of dollars and the face of a franchise".
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  • Dawgs0 wrote:
    theENGLISHseahawk wrote:
    Dawgs0 wrote:The dude is going to be a sophomore in college and people on here want to act like he's a 30-40 year old guy. Let the man have some fun while he can. LOL.


    If I see this one more time, I might have to go on a Manziel-style drinking binge myself.

    If Johnny Manziel wants the excuse of being a young college sophomore with a penchant for partying, that is fine. He can quit football and be a normal student. If he wants to be a first round pick, be paid millions of dollars and the face of a franchise, he's going to need to mature very, very quickly. It may be too late already.



    So when Colin Kaepernick is going out and having fun and partying, it's stopped him from having success? LOL. Or is Kaepernick not a face of a franchise?

    These guys are athletes not CEOs. What they do off the field, has very little bearing on their success. Partying is normal, even for NFL players.

    You act like you can only be a great player if you have a Russell Wilson type attitude. That's not the case.

    If Manziel continues to play great on the field, nobody will care what he does off the field. Nobody. "Off the field" has nothing to do with "on the field".

    If Manziel continues to get better "on the field" and plays well, then he'll "be a first round pick, be paid millions of dollars and the face of a franchise".


    Yeah, because Kapp is showing up late to practice and other obligations. And he's under age. It's not even close, but continue to make excuses for JM.
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  • While partying isn't a big deal in general, there's more scrutiny for QBs. They're expected to be leaders on and off the field. With holding the football every play comes greater responsibility. Still, it's not a big deal if your QB likes to party as long as they prioritize football over all else.

    Problem with Manziel, I don't get that vibe from him. I think he wants to live life and have a blast. I commend him for that. But it isn't what I want in my franchise QB - the fewer interests outside of football, the better. Now, that's just from the same articles that everyone else has read.

    What's interesting about Manziel is that even though he doesn't have a first round body or arm, he showed incredible feel the game (in addition to excellent athletic ability) and that makes him worth a 1st round consideration - but does he have that feel for football because of natural ability, or because he is the hardest working guy at A&M and the (untrustworthy when it comes to shaping the narrative) media showing us the wrong side of him? If he isn't obsessed with football, it is hard to see him making it in a league where better athletes with better work ethics fail.
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  • CPHawk wrote:Yeah, because Kapp is showing up late to practice and other obligations. And he's under age. It's not even close, but continue to make excuses for JM.


    So Manziel is the first college student to drink and party under age? Damn. LOL. That's what many college kids (and football players) do, if you didn't know (especially as an Oregon fan). Haha.

    Kaepernick parties and he's a face of the franchise qb. Manziel's partying has had no affect on his play, which is all that matters.

    Haven't heard that Manziel showed up late to practice with Texas A&M, which is all that matters. The Manning Camp doesn't matter. It means nothing.

    Continue to baselessly attack Manziel if it makes you feel better, but it doesn't change the fact that he's a Heisman winner and he's enjoying his life and having success. What he's done has had no affect on his success, which is all that matters.

    He hasn't killed someone or committed a felony. He's a college student acting like a college student. Let the man live his life in peace. BTW, just to let you know: He doesn't care about what you think of him.
    Last edited by Dawgs0 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Snohomie wrote:While partying isn't a big deal in general, there's more scrutiny for QBs. They're expected to be leaders on and off the field. With holding the football every play comes greater responsibility. Still, it's not a big deal if your QB likes to party as long as they prioritize football over all else.

    Problem with Manziel, I don't get that vibe from him. I think he wants to live life and have a blast. I commend him for that. But it isn't what I want in my franchise QB - the fewer interests outside of football, the better. Now, that's just from the same articles that everyone else has read.

    What's interesting about Manziel is that even though he doesn't have a first round body or arm, he showed incredible feel the game (in addition to excellent athletic ability) and that makes him worth a 1st round consideration - but does he have that feel for football because of natural ability, or because he is the hardest working guy at A&M and the (untrustworthy when it comes to shaping the narrative) media showing us the wrong side of him? If he isn't obsessed with football, it is hard to see him making it in a league where better athletes with better work ethics fail.


    I think Manziel is a Colin Kaepernick type of guy, where he wants to have fun outside of football. Even as a Seahawk fan I like watching those types of guys, because they're not boring off the field. Russell Wilson is a great football player, but he seems like a really boring dude off the field. Extremely serious, etc. He has nothing except football to talk about. Even Hass was a funny dude sometimes.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you don't want players to have fun outside of football. Football is a profession, a job. It's not necessarily an athlete's whole life. You can be committed to and prioritize football, which Manziel and Kaepernick are, and have fun outside of the game.

    There's obviously a line you can't cross, where you're committing crimes and putting your team in jeopardy, but Manziel hasn't committed a serious crime or felony. He's just had some fun, like a normal college kid. He's partied off the field, while having success. IMO, there's nothing wrong with that.

    I mean partying didn't stop Manziel from leading his team to a BCS bowl win and winning the Heisman. Partying didn't stop Kaepernick from leading his team to the Super Bowl. You can be good at football and also have a fun life and party. They're not mutually exclusive.

    You don't have to watch film all day to be a great player. You don't have to sit in the facility, reading the playbook the whole day to be good at football. I guess we have different perspectives on what football players need to do to be successful.
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  • Dawgs0 wrote:
    CPHawk wrote:Yeah, because Kapp is showing up late to practice and other obligations. And he's under age. It's not even close, but continue to make excuses for JM.


    So Manziel is the first college student to drink and party under age? Damn. LOL. That's what many college kids (and football players) do, if you didn't know (especially as an Oregon fan). Haha.

    Kaepernick parties and he's a face of the franchise qb. Manziel's partying has had no affect on his play, which is all that matters.

    Haven't heard that Manziel showed up late to practice with Texas A&M, which is all that matters. The Manning Camp doesn't matter. It means nothing.

    Continue to baselessly attack Manziel if it makes you feel better, but it doesn't change the fact that he's a Heisman winner and he's enjoying his life and having success. What he's done has had no affect on his success, which is all that matters.

    He hasn't killed someone or committed a felony. He's a college student acting like a college student. Let the man live his life in peace. BTW, just to let you know: He doesn't care about what you think of him.


    He can party and have fun, but he's being a jackass about it. It's funny the whole " he's just a student" bit. He's not "just" a student, but keep saying it it might change the fact that he's a lot more then that. He represents the Texas A&M, and is paid with a free education to do so. Do you think an equipment manger who did this crap, would still get to keep his job? No. But he is just a student as well, but one who gets his school paid for, for doing a job, same as little Johnny.

    It's pretty funny how UW fans forget that thanks to a Qb shenanigans, they got placed on probation. But hey players "are just students", that's why the NCAA won't let them get jobs or sell stuff that's signed. I'm pretty sure the NCAA wouldn't care if joe bob in math 235 sold stuff he signed.
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  • CPHawk wrote:
    He can party and have fun, but he's being a jackass about it. It's funny the whole " he's just a student" bit. He's not "just" a student, but keep saying it it might change the fact that he's a lot more then that. He represents the Texas A&M, and is paid with a free education to do so. Do you think an equipment manger who did this crap, would still get to keep his job? No. But he is just a student as well, but one who gets his school paid for, for doing a job, same as little Johnny.

    It's pretty funny how UW fans forget that thanks to a Qb shenanigans, they got placed on probation. But hey players "are just students", that's why the NCAA won't let them get jobs or sell stuff that's signed. I'm pretty sure the NCAA wouldn't care if joe bob in math 235 sold stuff he signed.



    How is he acting like a jackass? What crap? What has he done out of the ordinary? He's JUST a college student having fun. That's what many college kids do. He hasn't committed a felony or a serious crime. Do you actually understand that? Damn. LOL.

    There is nothing he's done that would warrant getting as mad as you appear to be. Haha. There are far worse, illegal things he could do, that would warrant your anger. You should know, with all of the Oregon players getting in far more legal trouble than Manziel has ever been in. Cliff Harris? Jeremiah Masoli? Kiko Alonso? Etc. Too many to name. LOL.

    So what has Johnny Manziel done that's much different from guys like Kaepernick? Having fun and partying isn't a crime. Continue to hate on a dude wanting to live his life and have fun. It doesn't change the fact that you CAN have fun and do well on the field at the same time, like Kaepernick and Manziel have proven. Like I said, they are not mutually exclusive.

    BTW, do you really believe that Manziel is worth just "a scholarship"? He gives much more to A&M than A&M gives to him. The NCAA is a complete fraud and the fact those rules exist doesn't mean it's right. Manziel is the most valuable player in the college game and as you know he's worth much, much more than a scholarship. He's worth thousands and likely millions to A&M and the NCAA. The fraud known as the NCAA is not compensating him or any other athlete fairly. That's not his fault.
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