Johnny Manziel = Tebow 2.0, with issues

He plead guilty to a 2012 misdemeanor today. Just thought I would keep things updated. Tebow 2.0 with issues.

T-Sizzle":32j9k2iy said:

He plead guilty to a 2012 misdemeanor today. Just thought I would keep things updated. Tebow 2.0 with issues.

Click to expand...

Details of the misdemeanor:

http://www.theeagle.com/news/crime/article_9e8eb910-ed5a-11e2-95af-001a4bcf887a.html

This kid seems like he can't handle the fame. I'm with T-Sizzle, I'd avoid this guy at all costs. He's going to be compared to Russell Wilson a lot just because they're both short and its laughable. Wilson is mature, this kid is not

JSeahawks":2k1hwz2w said:

He probably owes Russell Wilson a fruit basket or a thank you card for showing that short Qb's can have success in the league (although Bree's already proved that, imo).

Click to expand...

Short QB's with unbelievable poise, maturity and work ethic. Not to mention mechanics and a killer arm.

Manziel doesn't seem to possess any of these things.

Hasselbeck":28s9ddmu said:

JSeahawks":28s9ddmu said:

He probably owes Russell Wilson a fruit basket or a thank you card for showing that short Qb's can have success in the league (although Bree's already proved that, imo).

Click to expand...

Short QB's with unbelievable poise, maturity and work ethic. Not to mention mechanics and a killer arm.

Manziel doesn't seem to possess any of these things.

Click to expand...

:13:

Sounds like that wasn't the only issue he had at the camp. Reports are coming out that he had a hard time being on time to anything there. Something tells me he's not a first guy to the facility everyday type.

CPHawk":1a1g1bsj said:

Sounds like that wasn't the only issue he had at the camp. Reports are coming out that he had a hard time being on time to anything there. Something tells me he's not a first guy to the facility everyday type.

Click to expand...

Which is an underrated part of Wilson's game, at least among the national media.

Wilson has a lot of unnatural physical characteristics for his height (big hands, strong arm etc) but he just might be the hardest working guy in the NFL and that counts for something. He knows he'll always face at least some kind of battle due to the height, and he's compensating. And it's probably because he works so hard behind the scenes that he's so comfortable with the spotlight on him. He's so prepared, nothing can faze him.

Manziel might not have to match Wilson's unbelievable work ethic but he has to give it a go. He isn't going to be able to 'wing it' in the NFL, running around like his hair is on fire. Hard to disagree with those saying he gives off the vibe of a guy who is struggling to handle being in the limelight.

After having the character of player like RW, it's hard to look at a guy like Manziel and say "this is the guy I want running my team."

Johny Football goes #1 or #2 (Bridgewater might go ahead of him) next season. There is no doubt.
The kid has a natural instinct for playing QB. Everything he does so far comes very easy to him. The rest is coach-able. Johny football is a joy to watch. Simply an amazing talent.
He is a marketing machine for whoever drafts him next season (Jacksonville, Eagles, Cardinals, Cleveland, Oakland, ...). Why would any team pass on him? He has made Texas AM lots of $$$ already.
Regardless of what his off the field issues are, he has the right genes...Drafting a QB #1 is no longer a financial heavy weight on teams because of the new CBA. There is NO WAY he slips pass #2 in the draft next season, no way.
We have all been 20, we have all partied, had a few beers, faked IDs, done crazy things, .. etc. This is all media garbage. They should leave the kid alone. He can afford the $200k parties. He can afford expensive cars, what's wrong with that?

joeseahawks":283sxonu said:

Johny Football goes #1 or #2 (Bridgewater might go ahead of him) next season. There is no doubt.
The kid has a natural instinct for playing QB. Everything he does so far comes very easy to him. The rest is coach-able. Johny football is a joy to watch. Simply an amazing talent.
He is a marketing machine for whoever drafts him next season (Jacksonville, Eagles, Cardinals, Cleveland, Oakland, ...). Why would any team pass on him? He has made Texas AM lots of $$$ already.
Regardless of what his off the field issues are, he has the right genes...Drafting a QB #1 is no longer a financial heavy weight on teams because of the new CBA. There is NO WAY he slips pass #2 in the draft next season, no way.
We have all been 20, we have all partied, had a few beers, faked IDs, done crazy things, .. etc. This is all media garbage. They should leave the kid alone. He can afford the $200k parties. He can afford expensive cars, what's wrong with that?

Click to expand...

Apologies Joe, but this is one of the worst posts I've ever read in the draft forum.

1. What exactly is a natural instinct for playing QB? I would argue a natural instinct would mean you're a competent pocket passer (much like Andrew Luck) or that at least people would list passing and accuracy as your #1 feature. Manziel's greatest quality is without doubt his ability to improvise and not his ability in the pocket. If anything, I'd argue Manziel goes against the grain. I think writing off his issues (and there are a few) as "coachable" is a little too optimistic. Mechanically he is not a sound QB.

2. Making money is no reason to draft a QB. I mean, nobody with any shred of credibility will draft a player based on financial reasons. You name check Jacksonville as a team that would draft him for the cash. If the Jags were really that bothered about making money, Tim Tebow would be their current starter.

3. You can't just write off his issues by saying he has the right genes. Having the right genes means absolutely nothing if you aren't responsible and prepared to make the most of any natural talent you might have.

4. I think the argument that he's "just being 20" is ridiculous. Yes, we've all been 20 and done crazy things. It's also not a valid excuse for doing something extremely dumb. For starters I (like most 20 year olds) was never a prospective NFL QB intending to earn a million dollar contract via the draft. Manziel has a lot more to lose than 99.9% of the other college kids in the world. When I went out and got drunk at University and missed a lecture the next day, I wasn't attending the Manning Passing Academy. And prior to major events in my life that are perhaps comparable to attending the MPA (work opportunities, interviews etc) like the vast majority of people I'm not out until 4am and then sleeping in the next day. If he'd partied and missed a regular class at A&M I could stomach this argument. But this wasn't just another day for Manziel. He HAD to know what was at stake here. Getting sent home from the MPA is not acceptable and makes him look like a dufus with no control. It's not just another college lecture he's missing after a long night of fun. Quite rightly, his judgement and maturity is being called into question.

5. If we're making excuses for him aged 20, when does it stop? He's not a teenager anymore. Time to grow up and get some responsibility.

6. Being able to afford 200K parties and expensive cars does not justify acting like a jack ass and will not wash with NFL front offices.

7. If you can afford 200K parties, why not just go to New Orleans another time when you're not at the Manning Passing Academy? Talk about making life difficult for yourself.

8. Teddy Bridgewater isn't just on another level mechanically, but he comes minus all of the character headaches we're starting to see with Manziel. There's only room for one QB in the top two because there's no way on earth Jadeveon Clowney makes it outside of the top couple of picks. I have no doubt what so ever Bridgewater will be the first QB taken next year, even at this early stage.

Thankfully for Manziel he has a year of football to move on from this latest episode and get some momentum back. I hope for his sake he manages to do just that.

I see him as Tebow / Ryan Leaf, drops to 3rd or 4th round because he's an idiot with an attitude.

Again, I think people are trying to compare the kid to some type of machine. Every single player has some types of "Flaws". Remember when Cam Newton was in the draft? People kept saying "Well, he stole computers in college, he took money from people, he is this, he can't throw, he is not smart, he can't read defenses ... blah blah blah" and he was drafted #1, and he IS a franchise QB.
The upside for Johny Football is too high for any team like Jacksonville to pass on him. Some other teams will stink this season and they will most likely decide to take a look at Johnny Manziel, who will bring instant hype with him.
When I say "Natural QB" I mean things that a Brett Favre did. You don't teach that anywhere. Manziel can feel the pocket, he can make defenders miss almost effortlessly, he can create out of nothing , he can buy time for his receivers to get open, ... and I can go on and on and on. He can learn accuracy, he can add to arm strength. But what he already has available to him ... most QBs can't learn.
Maziel will go #1 or #2.
This kid dissected the best College Football Team without turnover ... and as a freshman ... come on.
And please, stop comparing him to Tebow ... This is not the same thing.

joeseahawks":pixpfn9l said:

Again, I think people are trying to compare the kid to some type of machine. Every single player has some types of "Flaws". Remember when Cam Newton was in the draft? People kept saying "Well, he stole computers in college, he took money from people, he is this, he can't throw, he is not smart, he can't read defenses ... blah blah blah" and he was drafted #1, and he IS a franchise QB.
The upside for Johny Football is too high for any team like Jacksonville to pass on him. Some other teams will stink this season and they will most likely decide to take a look at Johnny Manziel, who will bring instant hype with him.
When I say "Natural QB" I mean things that a Brett Favre did. You don't teach that anywhere. Manziel can feel the pocket, he can make defenders miss almost effortlessly, he can create out of nothing , he can buy time for his receivers to get open, ... and I can go on and on and on. He can learn accuracy, he can add to arm strength. But what he already has available to him ... most QBs can't learn.
Maziel will go #1 or #2.
This kid dissected the best College Football Team without turnover ... and as a freshman ... come on.
And please, stop comparing him to Tebow ... This is not the same thing.

Click to expand...

So expecting him not to stay out in New Orleans until 4am and attend the Manning Passing Academy on time as scheduled is unrealistic? That's thinking he's a machine?

Nonsense.

Likewise the comparison to Brett Favre. He was able to improvise and do a lot of crazy stuff, but he was fundamentally brilliant too. He was a prototype player in many ways on a technical and physical level. Manziel is not.

As for learning accuracy and arm strength... I wish it was that easy.

Did you go to Texas A&M by any chance?

I've written a piece on this tonight, for anyone who still cares about this story: http://seahawksdraftblog.com/johnny-man ... -an-excuse

Lots of us (and the media) spend too much time over-analyzing these kids. I understand, it is feeding into talk radio, fans, forums and all. It generates ratings, it makes all of use sound like GMs and such ... and in a few years, we will all come and say "I told you so"...
If he entered last year's draft, Johnny Football would have gone to KC or some team would have traded to get him very high. J M. is a play maker. Those don't grow on trees. With the emphasis placed on QB Mobility today, I don't see how a team with no Franchise QB like the Jaguars could pass on such a player. Yes, he got late for a meeting ... and what?
I'm not saying those things don't matter, all I'm saying is they are blown out of proportion.
Regardless of his flaws, he has some pretty darn good on the field performances under his belt already. He beat the best team in College football (with plenty of NFL ready players) and destroyed another one in their bowl game. He might have some flaws in his game or even his character, but seriously who doesn't?

JM will be fine and he will be a top 2 pick next year's draft. No doubt about it.
And NO I didn't go to A & M.
Joe

theENGLISHseahawk":1lr6xtg8 said:

I've written a piece on this tonight, for anyone who still cares about this story: http://seahawksdraftblog.com/johnny-man ... -an-excuse

Click to expand...

Not sure what everyone sees in this kid. He's fleet of foot, but runs with a certain character I can only call "flamboyant". His mechanics stink like hot garbage on asphalt. His throws look almost like disco dance moves.

Anyone mature enough to use the "I'm a 20 year old kid" excuse is to mature to use the "I'm a 20 year old kid" excuse. It's indication that you are aware of the flaws in your actions but just don't give enough of a damn to do anything but use a lame excuse to cover your actions. 20 year olds act like idiots because they don't know any better.

Just sayin.

I'm REALLY pulling for this kid. His instincts and tao understanding of "sandlot" ball is pretty damn fun to watch. In a society and culture full of phony faux-outrage over any individuality, I sure and hell hope he succeeds.

He's a 20yo Heisman Winner in Texas. I actually find it refreshing he's out drinking and banging chicks. Its what 20yo's should do.

There's an inherent hypocrisy here; "stay in school, enjoy college, but don't act like a college student, Johnny!". He's not a pro yet, he can do what he wants.

I was a huge partier and VIP room blow n women type in my 20's. I owned it and made no apologies for it in my corporate life. The other VP's and execs knew and joked about it. No one cared because I did good work and advanced to roles it takes most 20 years to reach. I'm not trying to attention whore, honestly, its just there's more than one way to accomplish things in life. Be yourself, but do your job. If its natural enough of a gig, you'll succeed.

pehawk":slwku1kp said:

I was a huge partier and VIP room blow n women type in my 20's. I owned it and made no apologies for it in my corporate life. The other VP's and execs knew and joked about it. No one cared because I did good work and advanced to roles it takes most 20 years to reach.

Click to expand...

And if you were missing meetings, sleeping in or getting sent home, they probably would've felt differently... no?

pehawk":3uarhs49 said:

I'm REALLY pulling for this kid. His instincts and tao understanding of "sandlot" ball is pretty damn fun to watch. In a society and culture full of phony faux-outrage over any individuality, I sure and hell hope he succeeds.

He's a 20yo Heisman Winner in Texas. I actually find it refreshing he's out drinking and banging chicks. Its what 20yo's should do.

There's an inherent hypocrisy here; "stay in school, enjoy college, but don't act like a college student, Johnny!". He's not a pro yet, he can do what he wants.

I was a huge partier and VIP room blow n women type in my 20's. I owned it and made no apologies for it in my corporate life. The other VP's and execs knew and joked about it. No one cared because I did good work and advanced to roles it takes most 20 years to reach. I'm not trying to attention whore, honestly, its just there's more than one way to accomplish things in life. Be yourself, but do your job. If its natural enough of a gig, you'll succeed.

Click to expand...

You're looking at this situation from the vantage point of a survivor. What about all the twentysomethings who partied hardy and didn't make it like you did? What you've done is only applicable here if it's the norm, and I'd very much guess it's not. Manziel is not avoiding the types of mistakes that have led other highly touted college players to fail.

Further reading about survivor bias, if you're curious: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2013/05/23/ ... ship-bias/