Surprise rival for seahawks...

pehawk":33bo6liu said:

Ill get flamed for this, but the Card scare me a lot more than the Rams. Palmer put up good numbers with a bad line in Oakland. And, he didn't have Fitz and Arians helping him do it.

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Cardinals are the least of my concern. I do agree that the addition of Palmer will definitely benefit them, especially with the Fitz connection, but their run game is almost non-existent.

Their defense is okay. However, it seemed like when we played them it was soooooft. Maybe it was because they were on a 10 game losing streak or something like that and had no life in them, but with an experienced Russell Wilson the Cards D is a non concern. They just don't have enough talent/experience throughout that side of the football.

I just think the Cards, with Ariens, will come out gunning every game. They'll be the type to but up 38 one week, and 13 the next. I see us splitting with the Cards. I don't think people realize how awful the Raiders "weapons" were last year, and Palmer put up some good numbers.

They aren't a playoff team, but they got enough to get to 7, IMO.

Why are so many people scared of Arians? Because Pagano's cancer--err, his "coaching skills" got him the Coach of the Year award? Going 9-3 with a Colts team that was artificially bad the previous year and that drafted a great QB that was very NFL-ready with one of the easiest schedules ever seen in the NFL isn't something I'm scared of. He very well might be a great coach, but it certainly remains to be seen. I'm more nervous about Fisher than Arians by a long shot, right now.

I'm one that thinks the Rams are poised to turn into serious competition soon. It only takes 1 or 2 of their rookies/underperforming players to step up consistently, and we'll have to be on our toes to hold them off.

Last season most of the NFL talked about us in much the same way they are being spoken of now. Hopefully it takes Fisher awhile to get an elite team going.

Even if they aren't elite for awhile, they have nothing to lose and will play us tough.

I like Arians in Pittsburgh, good offensive mind. I don't care about last year.

The Lambs demand respect. I doubt we lose any division games at home, though. So we split with them at worst. So it really comes down to the old 'can we beat them on the road?' question. I'd say odds are in our favor, but not by much. I'd assume we'd be like 2-3 pt faves at their house, maybe 6-7 at ours.

sutz":2e5ro1d7 said:

The Lambs demand respect. I doubt we lose any division games at home, though. So we split with them at worst. So it really comes down to the old 'can we beat them on the road?' question. I'd say odds are in our favor, but not by much. I'd assume we'd be like 2-3 pt faves at their house, maybe 6-7 at ours.

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+1 the Rams are going to be a good team. I would not be surprised to see them leap frog the aging whiners this year or next. They have a young and talented roster

I have confidence we will go 2-0 vs the Rams.
Both games were tough last year, but in gaining Austin they lost SJ.
Yes, smaller shifty WRs can play havoc on BB and Sherm, but can they play tough against WT3 and maybe Winfield?
Our DBs>Rookie WR's.
Bradford hasn't proven anything.
Suspect run game.
Above average D maybe top 10, not elite.
DangeRuss will be improved over last years games.

I've been saying the Rams are going to be tough all year. Bradford is a very good QB who got shellshocked behind a terrible oline. But that oline isn't as bad anymore and he still has great skills. That defense is incredible, however, and gave us fits, even at home.

kearly":1uk95opr said:

Until the Rams score more than 1 offensive TD against us in a season, I'm not worried. The Rams might be good in a few years, but people are getting ahead of themselves if they are anointing the Rams as serious 2013 playoff contenders. That defense is pretty good, but their offense is very much in rebuilding mode and they pretty much wiped the slate clean with young players this season. I think they are built to be a pain for SF and SEA since they have built their roster with the division in mind, but they will still get curbstomped by tough teams out of the division just like they have been for years.

Last season they were not formidable- they were a pest. Thing is, bad teams can play tough in the division- it happens all the time.

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For the purpose of the topic, how much of a distinction is there really between "pain", "pest", "formidable?" Pesky can be formidable. Formidable can be a pain... a pest. Perhaps the only suggestion of "serious contenders" might be in the OP with the mention of "surprise rival", but I think the gist of this discussion is more just saying that they could more be the team to reckon with rather than the Niners. That really isn't too far-fetched. Any given Sunday, any given season... there are surprise teams. The Hawks stormed onto the scene in 2012 and people were probably saying not to get ahead of themselves and that they would be good in a few years. I wouldn't say that I'm worried about them either... but, while they may be in rebuilding mode, they are rebuilding with dynamite (ie: Tavon Austin.)

On paper, they look better, but we have all seen how long it takes to become a good WR in the NFL.

Plus we have arguably the best, and hardest hitting secondary in football.

I guess all those high draft picks from sucking so long may pay off sometime. Or not.

bestfightstory":1zb8msvc said:

Yes and no. I will agree with the OP that by midway point of the season the St Louis Rams will be considered the Seahawks greatest intradivisional threat. But I think they will fade some down the stretch. And counting on 2 rookie WRs is a tall order-I get that.

Looking at their schedule I noticed an interesting phenomenon. They play the same teams home/away as we do from the NFC South and AFC South. Odd & Advantage: San Fran. The Niners, however, will lose their first two out of the gate (home vs pack and @ Seattle). Then, in week 4 they travel on a short week to St Louis for a Thursday night game.

THAT game will be critical.

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This is spot on. Counting on rookie WR is silly. Sam Bradford finally gets an OC for 2 consecutive years, but rookie WR are not ideal, and the TE Cook is less than the sum of the parts when you measure his talent against his results.

But that Rams front 7? And the secondary is improving. They led the league in sacks last year. The run game is a mystery, I don't trust Pead or Daryll to excel. But Pead might just make that 2nd year leap. If he does, that is a playoff team, IMO.

They are a flawed, but not deeply flawed. And they have the Niners #.

pehawk":e7941hdb said:

I just think the Cards, with Ariens, will come out gunning every game. They'll be the type to but up 38 one week, and 13 the next. I see us splitting with the Cards. I don't think people realize how awful the Raiders "weapons" were last year, and Palmer put up some good numbers.

They aren't a playoff team, but they got enough to get to 7, IMO.

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I'm not overlooking the Cards, but in such an anticipated season with a goal of a Super Bowl Championship, I sure hope you're wrong about the Hawks splitting with them. I know we can play around with projected losses all day... but, just saying I don't think the Hawks can really afford to split with the Cardinals. So, what is your projected division record? 5-1, 4-2? The other 10 games? I know they can split with the Cards and all sorts of possibilities remain, but I just think those are games the Hawks can and should win. They are going to need those kinds of games if they hope to get home field advantage. Still, I agree the Cardinals are improved with Palmer and Ariens.

I think Ariens gets Palmer killed. The O-line is improved, but it isn't going to look good right away. The ex-Pitty rb Mendenhall isn't bringing much toughness.

I think Ariens makes the Cards lose both games to Seattle. Ariens wants to quit on the run, and Palmer takes chances, which is easy pickings for our playmakers. I predict a firts win at UOPS, just because Wilson hasn't lost a 2nd game to anybody yet.

And they lost the DC, and he was the most important coach in Arizona.

Scottemojo":2c0qe9dt said:

bestfightstory":2c0qe9dt said:

Yes and no. I will agree with the OP that by midway point of the season the St Louis Rams will be considered the Seahawks greatest intradivisional threat. But I think they will fade some down the stretch. And counting on 2 rookie WRs is a tall order-I get that.

Looking at their schedule I noticed an interesting phenomenon. They play the same teams home/away as we do from the NFC South and AFC South. Odd & Advantage: San Fran. The Niners, however, will lose their first two out of the gate (home vs pack and @ Seattle). Then, in week 4 they travel on a short week to St Louis for a Thursday night game.

THAT game will be critical.

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This is spot on. Counting on rookie WR is silly. Sam Bradford finally gets an OC for 2 consecutive years, but rookie WR are not ideal, and the TE Cook is less than the sum of the parts when you measure his talent against his results.

But that Rams front 7? And the secondary is improving. They led the league in sacks last year. The run game is a mystery, I don't trust Pead or Daryll to excel. But Pead might just make that 2nd year leap. If he does, that is a playoff team, IMO.

They are a flawed, but not deeply flawed. And they have the Niners #.

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I sure hope all who are not concerned about Tavon Austin are correct and that I am outright wrong, wrong, wrong. I just think he's going to be an explosive, electric, threat-on-any-given-play... special player out of the gate. I try to tell myself that he won't be now that he's with the Rams... but he was the unquestionable elite talent at the position in the draft and the type of player that doesn't come along very often. Speed kills. Hopefully the season wears on him. I would gladly take the "silly" label come playoff time.

Scottemojo":rvsplcxu said:

I think Ariens gets Palmer killed. The O-line is improved, but it isn't going to look good right away. The ex-Pitty rb Mendenhall isn't bringing much toughness.

I think Ariens makes the Cards lose both games to Seattle. Ariens wants to quit on the run, and Palmer takes chances, which is easy pickings for our playmakers. I predict a firts win at UOPS, just because Wilson hasn't lost a 2nd game to anybody yet.

And they lost the DC, and he was the most important coach in Arizona.

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excellent points

I'm not forgetting Tavon, kid is special. A steady diet of bubble screens and smoke screens are going to get him on ESPN a fair bit. But vs the Hawks? watch Percy's highlights from his game against us last year. Teams with lateral speed can make those speed guys play a couple of yards closer to the sideline, and of yet there is no proof Tavon has any of Percy's tough attitude. As a kick returner he scares the hell out of me.

And, rookie. I just don't trust rookies to get it right away. I like that our nickel has been lining up on Harvin for years now in practice as well.

Scottemojo":2m0lagw1 said:

I'm not forgetting Tavon, kid is special. A steady diet of bubble screens and smoke screens are going to get him on ESPN a fair bit. But vs the Hawks? watch Percy's highlights from his game against us last year. Teams with lateral speed can make those speed guys play a couple of yards closer to the sideline, and of yet there is no proof Tavon has any of Percy's tough attitude. As a kick returner he scares the hell out of me.

And, rookie. I just don't trust rookies to get it right away. I like that our nickel has been lining up on Harvin for years now in practice as well.

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Good point about the rookie WR's not getting it right away. They don't know their route tree that well yet and our secondary will feast on their mistakes. Still, that Rams team is not an opponent we can get overconfident about. They weren't 4-1-1 in THIS division without a reason.

Stedman Bailey is a route runner and will adapt quickly. Austin is going to be less of a threat to be a game changer by his own play than he will be by drawing attention away from others.

I still think the O-line will be a factor but mostly because it takes O-line time to gel. I also don't know how good it will be at run blocking and right now they don't have a Lynch/Gore type that will consistently get them the tough yards when needed.

I expect to see steady improvement in their offense as they gel and learn to play together and I already think they will sweep the Niners but they will need that continuity and growth added to future draft picks before that are as complete a team as we are right now.

I think they have the best chance in the division to steal a game from us and I also think they are our biggest threat to stop Wilson's undefeated streak at home but they will likely struggle a little more outside of the division and on the road in general than we will.

I know I would rather have football discussions with the Rams fans because they generally are legitimate fans instead of the hoards of Niner trolls that weren't alive for their last trophy but have no problem throwing 5 rings or empty trophy case out there as some sort of legitimate argument.

I know every fan base has it's morons, hell I'm here ain't I but no fan base should be dominated by them like the Niners band wagon. One that will be dismanteled soon. It's going to be nice when they go back to their troll hole and wait for the next good Niner team in another decade again.

Palmer damn near got killed last year with a Raiders Oline the Cards will at least match, if not surpass. Also, by default, anyone playing in Oakland officially doesn't care about the game anymore. It's the culture in Oakland. So, I think Palmer will surpass a very gaudy and respectable year last year. We'll see.

IMO, the Seahawks offensive line matches up perfect against the Rams front 7 in the run game. Pass protection? Yes, advantage Rams. But, when the Hawks actually schemed against that front 7, Lynch did what he wanted when he wanted to.