Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant

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Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:43 am
  • I just watched an interview with Jerry Rice on the NFL network where Rice was asked if he thought Sherman had the ability to shut down Rice when Rice was still playing. Rice looked disgusted and irritated that he was being asked this question. Rice's reply was a very quick 'no'. To me it seemed almost disrespectful and over confident. Later on in the day Sherman tweeted to Rice that it sure is easy for Rice to talk when he isn't able to prove it on the field which is exactly what I was thinking during the Rice interview.

    During Rice's interview he was also asked about Calvin Johnson breaking one of Rice's records last season and the possibility that Calvin might break all of Rice's records eventually. Rice again was somewhat disrespectful as he talked about Johnson. Rice indicated that Johnson wasn't yet a complete player (but on his way to becoming one). I thought this was absurd; Johnson almost had 2,000 yards receiving in a year! Johnson also just had the best receiving game in history (overtime excluded) only a few weeks back. In my opinion Calvin has already proved that, at his best, he is more dominant than Jerry Rice ever was. I may not be right, but I think it is at least a debatable topic.

    Anyway, my point is that Jerry was running his mouth about a player who is clearly one of the best WRs to ever play the game and is still young. He also ran his mouth about Sherman. Sherman, in my opinion, is one of the best CBs, if not the best CB, in the league right now.

    So back to Sherman's tweet... Rice could have approached the questions he was asked during his interview in many different ways, especially because we will never know what the answers are to these questions he was asked. He could have let the stats speak for themselves or he could have run his mouth and try to remind us all of how special he was. Rice choose to run his mouth. And we all know how Sherman feels about people who run their mouths... I wish a day would come where this match-up could happen (time travel or something) because i would pay to see Sherman ask Rice 'You mad Bro?'.

    BTW, I think a player like Calvin Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, etc. would have answered these questions differently; with more respect. Rice, in my opinion, is insecure and a dick and in my opinion was never a true Hawk but only a dick who tried to steal a true Hawk's number... rant over...

    I apologize if this topic was already posted... I looked for it but couldn't find anything; I thought it was worth mentioning though.
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  • Ego, all great players have 'em its a fact of life, I'm sure even our favorite QB has a bit of an ego.

    Michael Jordan has the same ego when it comes to LeBron James.
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  • "A very quick 'no'" is now disrespectful and running one's mouth?

    This is an outrage!
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  • Jerry Rice is pretty much the best WR of recent memory. Why should he think that any corner could stop him? Come on now. This is silly.
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  • I don't understand how he was wrong. If you don't believe that you are the greatest, you can never play like or become the greatest. You don't become great without arrogance to go along.
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  • Rice wasnt disrespectful or running his mouth.You are kind of making his response more dramatic than it was.He answered the question and stated why.He said he took pride in beating the press man to man.And he was right.Rice and Montana or Young would have eaten his lunch.They beat better CBs than Sherman.Why would Sherman even tweet about it?That sounds more arrogant or disrespectful than what Rice had to say.
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  • Jerry Rice was always a dick, even in his playing days. Yeah, he was a great receiver. He also had the advantage of being surrounded by great talent (Dwight Clark and Roger Craig don't get half the credit they deserve) and played with two of the best quarterbacks of all time.

    Sherman would have stolen his lunch money though. He's bigger and faster than anyone Rice ever faced, including rice himself.

    Jerry Rice gets way too much individual credit. Put him on the Browns in 85 and you'd never have heard of him.
    Last edited by HansGruber on Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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  • justafan wrote:They beat better CBs than Sherman.


    Name one. The only CB as good as Sherman he ever faced was Deion Sanders and having watched them both, I think Sherman is better.
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  • HansGruber wrote:
    justafan wrote:They beat better CBs than Sherman.


    Name one. The only CB as good as Sherman he ever faced was Deion Sanders and having watched them both, I think Sherman is better.

    Up for discussion prime time was a pretty complete player
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  • Haha, Sherman couldn't cover rice even if you let him hold the first ten yards. Dion couldn't cover rice, and now Sherman can? I know the league started for Seattle in 2001, but we are talking about the best receiver of all time, vs a top five corner this season?
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  • The Megatron comparison is ridiculous.

    Rice had longevity yes, but also played almost his entire career with Montana and Young.

    Megatron put up a 1300 yard season on the 0-16 Lions with the Dan Orlovsky/Daunte Culpepper dreamteam behind center, then he had to put up with a year of Stafford growing pains and a year and a half of injuries from him, giving Shaun Hill and Culpepper more playing time.

    In Stafford's last 2.5 healthy seasons Megatron has put up 115 yards per game on average, and 2 TDs every 3 games.
    On top of that, his best season is better than Rice's best. His second best is better than Rice's second best, and he's on pace to best Rice's best season again this year.
    All without Joe Montana and Steve Young at QB.
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  • There is no other possible answer for Rice. Like someone like that would ever say "yes, my playing abilities are nothing compared to the almighty god Sherman"... Its just a dumb question to ask.
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  • Best wr in nfl History vs a very good cb the last 2 yrs. I'm taking rice. It's hard to compare rice vs Sherman and rice vs Johnson because of how different the game is today. You can't touch a wr today, imagine rice playing today.
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  • He's confident in his abilities. He's earned the right to brush off third year cornerbacks. If Sherman keeps up his level of play for a bunch of more years, he might give a different answer 5-10 years down the road. Sherman hasn't done anything yet.
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  • Dick Johnson wrote:Haha, Sherman couldn't cover rice even if you let him hold the first ten yards. Dion couldn't cover rice, and now Sherman can? I know the league started for Seattle in 2001, but we are talking about the best receiver of all time, vs a top five corner this season?



    Seattle doesnt have "Five Rings" but we have knowledgeable and passionate fans that pre-date 2001 by quite a few years.

    And even though I wont go as far as the OP, its not fair to discredit Sherman just because he is early in his career. Sherman shows every ounce of potential to be the best at his position over a 10 year period like Rice was, so why not ponder the possibility? Sherman very well may have been able to cover him just fine, we will never know.
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  • The game has also just really changed.

    Calvin Johnson came into the league in 2007. Ten of the top twelve passing seasons by a quarterback of all time happened in just the six full years that Calvin Johnson has been in the league. We're on pace for that to be eleven out the top twelve by the end of this season.

    Another way to look at it is that in Stafford's two full seasons he has had 663 and 727 passing attempts. Steve Young only had over 500 attempts (517) once in his entire career, and the same is true for Joe Montana (515 once). They were both closer to 425-430 attempts in most seasons.

    Not taking a single thing away from Calvin Johnson who is an amazingly talented player and the best receiver in his era IMO, but what Jerry Rice was able to do in comparison to the other players at his position in his era is really just unfathomable. I mean heck, even in this era where passing and receiving stats flow like water, it's still incomparable.
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  • Jerry rice did it with HOF Qbs, Calvin has done it with scrubs and Stafford. If you gave every team the choose between a 23 yo Calvin Johnson or 23 yo Rice, I bet it would be pretty close but Calvin would be takin more times.

    Another way to look at it is Rice played with his eras version of Tom Brady, imagine the insane numbers Calvin would have with Brady.
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  • Dick Johnson wrote:Haha, Sherman couldn't cover rice even if you let him hold the first ten yards. Dion couldn't cover rice, and now Sherman can? I know the league started for Seattle in 2001, but we are talking about the best receiver of all time, vs a top five corner this season?


    Yeah and Niners fans came out of hiding in 2011...see how stupid that sounds?

    Anyways...back to the topic. Rice is and always will be my favorite WR of all time. It seems like a lot of fans still hold a grudge over the whole Largent # situation. I don't understand why. But then again, I never hated TO for his sharpie incident.
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  • These type of comparisons are interesting, but impossible to conclude. They are opinion based.
    I've always believed that Barry Sanders would have blown away Emmitt Smitt if he had played with that Dallas team. But thats my opinion. No way to prove it. Would be a crazy competition to see Rice vs Sherman, both in their prime. Rice well past his, Sherm not yet at his, so who really can say how it would turn out.
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  • They are all hypothetical opinion questions, and thus stupid.
    The one truth is that Rice is as ass. He calls himself GOAT. Which means he could never admit anyone is as good as him. Never.
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  • Dick Johnson wrote:Haha, Sherman couldn't cover rice even if you let him hold the first ten yards. Dion couldn't cover rice, and now Sherman can? I know the league started for Seattle in 2001, but we are talking about the best receiver of all time, vs a top five corner this season?

    The league started in 1976. Get it right.
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  • Rice has every right.

    While I certainly loathe the Niners, when it comes to receivers there just wasn't any better. Any of us that were football aware in the 80s know this.

    No.. Sherman could not shut him down, nobody could. Rice was simply the best combination of speed, size, hands, brains and work ethic that the NFL had to offer. He wasn't big, but he was tall enough. He could make the circus catch, the leaping grab, the slant. He was doing the WR screen before it was popular.

    Like Harvin you just had to get the ball in his hands. He was elusive after the catch and dangerous as they come down field, even like Megatron. He was a lot tougher than people give him credit for and consistent as Largent with the ball in the vicinity of being caught.

    There is one thing to consider with Rice though, having Taylor, Jones and a RB who frequently caught passes made it easy to get open. That said, it was amazing that he produced at the level he did with the amount of balls going elsewhere. In the 80s you could have any of the SF offensive skill players on your Fantasy team (yes, we did it on paper even back then) and you were assured production.

    I don't think Rice is the same guy without the Niners offense, but on a team of experts at their position, Rice stood out as the feature guy and made it look easy. Sherman might have been able to slow him down a little, but Rice just didn't get shut down. There were few games that he wasn't a factor.

    Nope.. not Sherman, Revis or Sanders could stop him for an entire game. If they did, they were likely to get torched by Taylor anyway.
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  • Seahawk Fan Looking for Disrespect Where it isn't Really There Thread #521
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  • how about the obvious factor that ALL NFL athletes today are superior that to the ones compared to in the past
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  • Popeyejones wrote:The game has also just really changed.

    Calvin Johnson came into the league in 2007. Ten of the top twelve passing seasons by a quarterback of all time happened in just the six full years that Calvin Johnson has been in the league. We're on pace for that to be eleven out the top twelve by the end of this season.

    Another way to look at it is that in Stafford's two full seasons he has had 663 and 727 passing attempts. Steve Young only had over 500 attempts (517) once in his entire career, and the same is true for Joe Montana (515 once). They were both closer to 425-430 attempts in most seasons.

    Not taking a single thing away from Calvin Johnson who is an amazingly talented player and the best receiver in his era IMO, but what Jerry Rice was able to do in comparison to the other players at his position in his era is really just unfathomable. I mean heck, even in this era where passing and receiving stats flow like water, it's still incomparable.


    True. But would a single player for the Lions not called Calvin Johnson get a start for the 49ers in the 80s/90s?

    The fact of the matter is - yes, the league is more of a passing game than ever these days, but it's a hell of a lot easier to succeed with Montana and Young behind centre, who - in their 19 combined seasons as starters for the 49ers had just one season with less than 60% completion percentage (59.9% in 88).
    But as great as Largent was, there's not a single person on the planet who would take him over Megatron
    Conversely, the guy who held every receiving record until Rice came along had to cope with QBs who broke that mark just twice during his entire career (Krieg with 60 and 60.5%)
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  • I love Sherm, but I would take Rice every time.

    This is just all hypothetical stuff. Seems like an attempt to start up crap that doesn't need starting up. Pointless.
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  • This thread is embarassing.
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  • CPHawk wrote:Another way to look at it is Rice played with his eras version of Tom Brady, imagine the insane numbers Calvin would have with Brady.


    You're treating a quarterback and wide receiver as independent, and they're not, though.

    Let's look at Rice when he was in his prime in years in which he did not have Montana or Young.

    In 1986 Montana missed half the season, and he was mediocre when he did play (8TDs, 9INT, and an 80 QB rating). Jerry Rice had 1640 Yards and 16 TDs

    In 1995, a year in which Steve Young missed a third of the season and had his worst year statistically, Jerry Rice had 1879 yards and 16 TDs.

    I also don't think Calvin's best season is as good as this season, despite the fact he is playing in a passing era that we've never seen before.

    Calvin had 1964 yards and 5 touchdowns. He accounted for 40% of his team's receiving yards and 23% of his teams receiving touchdowns.
    Rice had 1848 receiving yards and 15 receiving touchdowns. He too accounted for 40% of his team's receiving yards but 52% of his team's receiving touchdowns.

    Jerry Rice is an @sshole, that's totally undisputed, but he made Montana and Young who they were as much as they made him. In fact, two of his best statistical seasons with the 49ers were with Jeff Kemp, Mike Moroski, and Elvis Grbac spending as much time under center as Montana and Young. Stafford is no Montana or Young for sure, but he's no Kemp, Moroski or Grbac either.
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  • Ask after a few more seasons.

    Rice demonstrated he was the best in the game during his time. Sherman is a very talented CB and one of the best in the league which has changed to the real advantage of WRs and Sherm is shutting the 1 WR down game after game.

    In the end we'll never know b/c they'll never play each other.

    This is actually a silly question that is unanswerable. Sherm would give Rice a hard time but at present the edge in my mind goes to Rice b/c of the length of his demonstrated superiority however the comparison will never be apples to apples.
    Until we develop a pass rush that will cause opposing teams to be forced to scheme to defend it we will never be able to completely take the final step. That was done and the final step was taken.

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  • TwilightError wrote:There is no other possible answer for Rice. Like someone like that would ever say "yes, my playing abilities are nothing compared to the almighty god Sherman"... Its just a dumb question to ask.


    Taking the high road is a simple place for Rice to go. Everyone would know he is doing that..... He could have just said "Sherman is a beast" or "Calvin probably will when its all said and done if healthy".

    Then that stops the questions, they move on, etc.
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  • It's pretty simple - the era's are different. I feel like Rice was the best of his generation. Whether Sherman could have covered him is irrelevant, and Calvin Johnson would not have prospered back then, as giant receivers were not desired - nor were giant corners.

    One element is strikingly true is how the game has evolved - now everyone wants a Calvin Johnson - tall, great wingspan, leaping ability, and the more shifty/mobile the better. Dez, Calvin, Brandon, etc. Calvin is the best of today's bunch based on his continued improvement and length of time he has done it. He's the one who redefined the position.

    The Seahawks are redefining the corner position - nobody wanted tall corners fearing their ability to change direction and longevity. Now everyone will pursue players over 6 feet tall in hopes of finding their own Sherman and Browner. Deion Sanders might be the only corner of his era with that had no equal in his day. The same cannot be said about Sherman, although Sherman's stack rank among his peers still probably has him as #1 overall - same as Deion.

    Overall, Rice could have responded a bit more PC - but he's a hall of famer and did it for a full generation (except his days with the Hawks!) and deserves to carry that chip on his shoulder. Although he could have easily thrown Sherman a bone - probably would have if he played for the Niners and not the Seahawks.
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  • First of all, Jerry Rice “statistically” is the Benchmark by which all receivers judge themselves until someone comes along and supplants him “statistically”. He has set practically every record of consequence for receiving in the NFL. That being said I believe he has, to some extent earned the right to have a somewhat lofty opinion of himself. That the national media, and Niner fans the world over have blown so much sunshine up his rear over the years that he could power a small Scandinavian country with the Solar Energy alone is an aside. He is also allowed to have an opinion of how he “theoretically” compares to the best Cornerback (Love ya Sherm!) in the league today! Sherman has talked a lot over the last few years about his own personal prowess as a player. And he has backed up most, if not all of it with actions! In time I think this will become a much more palpable comparison to make as Sherman wins over some of that same national press with his sustained excellence in the league. I personally would take a piece of the action were you able to conceive a way to pair these two at their peak in a Mano a Mano beat down. But you can’t, so it is down to opinion. My opinion is that it would be jump ball.

    Now Rice VS Calvin Johnson? Calvin just might be the guy to do exactly what I said in the first sentence! That he is doing it with Stafford, who I rate very highly, is testament to the skill level there. So by proxy, if you look at how Sherman has fared against Calvin, or for that matter most of the elite receivers in the league at the moment, he has made a pretty strong case for himself in this theoretical Battle Royale.
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  • If you ask me, comparing Rice to Johnson is an apples to oranges deal.

    It was a different NFL back when Rice was setting all those records. The conventional wisdom of the time, with respect to the size and speed of corners and safeties, was totally different, and so was the way defenses covered. In that era Rice was taller and faster than most, and the system he operated in was not yet fully comprehended and defended like it is now. Erase 20 years off Rice's age and insert him into the Lions lineup with Stafford the gunslinger throwing and his stats are nowhere near what he accomplished in the 80's. Rice was good because of Walsh, Montana, and inept defenses not yet tuned-in to defending the WCO.

    Johnson is taller, stronger, and (IMO) faster than Rice, is playing in a completely different offensive system, against defenses that can shut down WC routes, and is being covered by faster and stronger (and better coached) DB's.

    I'll take Johnson over any receiver in history.
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  • HansGruber wrote:Sherman would have stolen his lunch money though. He's bigger and faster than anyone Rice ever faced, including rice himself.


    That's just silly. Sherman may be the tallest CB Rice faced but faster than any cornerback he ever faced? Sherman isn't even very fast. Guys like Deion and Darrell Green make Sherman look about as fast as Red Bryant.
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  • themunn wrote:The fact of the matter is - yes, the league is more of a passing game than ever these days, but it's a hell of a lot easier to succeed with Montana and Young behind centre, who - in their 19 combined seasons as starters for the 49ers had just one season with less than 60% completion percentage (59.9% in 88).


    Or we could put this another way: Rice was playing in an era where completing more than 60% of your passes was considered very good, whereas Calvin is playing in an era where completing less than 60% of your passes is considered very bad.

    For Calvin's biggest season Stafford did only complete 59.8% of his passes, but he also threw ball 727 times (the most passes in a season in the history of the NFL) for 4967 yards (the 7th most passing yards in the history of the NFL). The season you're referring to '88 the 9ers attempted 556 passes compared to Stafford's 727 (e.g. 25% less passes thrown and the same completion percentage).

    Rice was also top 7 in receptions, yards, and TDs that year, which doesn't sound that great, until you remember that he was 36 years old by that point. There are only two times in the history of the NFL when a WR had a season as good as this past the age of 35: That was Jerry Rice when he was 39 years old, and Jerry Rice when he was 40 years old.

    Seriously, he has always been a jerk, but his ability as football player is pretty unimpeachable, IMO.
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  • HoustonHawk82 wrote: In that era Rice was taller and faster than most


    Not totally opposed to the totality of your argument, but this isn't accurate. Rice fell to the middle of the first round because we wasn't as big, strong, and fast as most. He ran a 4.71 40 yard dash.
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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    HoustonHawk82 wrote: In that era Rice was taller and faster than most


    Not totally opposed to the totality of your argument, but this isn't accurate. Rice fell to the middle of the first round because we wasn't as big, strong, and fast as most. He ran a 4.71 40 yard dash.


    That's fair. I still stand behind the argument that Rice's success was mostly due to the system and the way it was defended at the time. If you look at the DB's that covered him compared to those covering receivers now, different story also.

    It's interesting how the body-types and schemes have evolved since then. Johnson is up against an entirely different set of obstacles than Rice was.
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  • HoustonHawk82 wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:
    HoustonHawk82 wrote: In that era Rice was taller and faster than most


    Not totally opposed to the totality of your argument, but this isn't accurate. Rice fell to the middle of the first round because we wasn't as big, strong, and fast as most. He ran a 4.71 40 yard dash.


    That's fair. I still stand behind the argument that Rice's success was mostly due to the system and the way it was defended at the time. If you look at the DB's that covered him compared to those covering receivers now, different story also.

    It's interesting how the body-types and schemes have evolved since then. Johnson is up against an entirely different set of obstacles than Rice was.


    The beauty of Rice was his first few steps of ANY ROUTE were exactly the same. DB's rarely stood a chance guessing what cut he would make. I think the WCO had some option elements in it as well that opened him up that were unique for the times.
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  • Careful, that's one of the greatest Seahawks receivers of all time you're talking about!
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  • sekiuHAWK wrote:I just watched an interview with Jerry Rice on the NFL network where Rice was asked if he thought Sherman had the ability to shut down Rice when Rice was still playing. Rice looked disgusted and irritated that he was being asked this question. Rice's reply was a very quick 'no'. To me it seemed almost disrespectful and over confident. Later on in the day Sherman tweeted to Rice that it sure is easy for Rice to talk when he isn't able to prove it on the field which is exactly what I was thinking during the Rice interview.

    During Rice's interview he was also asked about Calvin Johnson breaking one of Rice's records last season and the possibility that Calvin might break all of Rice's records eventually. Rice again was somewhat disrespectful as he talked about Johnson. Rice indicated that Johnson wasn't yet a complete player (but on his way to becoming one). I thought this was absurd; Johnson almost had 2,000 yards receiving in a year! Johnson also just had the best receiving game in history (overtime excluded) only a few weeks back. In my opinion Calvin has already proved that, at his best, he is more dominant than Jerry Rice ever was. I may not be right, but I think it is at least a debatable topic.

    Anyway, my point is that Jerry was running his mouth about a player who is clearly one of the best WRs to ever play the game and is still young. He also ran his mouth about Sherman. Sherman, in my opinion, is one of the best CBs, if not the best CB, in the league right now.

    So back to Sherman's tweet... Rice could have approached the questions he was asked during his interview in many different ways, especially because we will never know what the answers are to these questions he was asked. He could have let the stats speak for themselves or he could have run his mouth and try to remind us all of how special he was. Rice choose to run his mouth. And we all know how Sherman feels about people who run their mouths... I wish a day would come where this match-up could happen (time travel or something) because i would pay to see Sherman ask Rice 'You mad Bro?'.

    BTW, I think a player like Calvin Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, etc. would have answered these questions differently; with more respect. Rice, in my opinion, is insecure and a dick and in my opinion was never a true Hawk but only a dick who tried to steal a true Hawk's number... rant over...

    I apologize if this topic was already posted... I looked for it but couldn't find anything; I thought it was worth mentioning though.


    umm NO! He's very little chance at breaking ALL of Rice's records. It would be a miracle if he breaks any of Rice's career records. Rice had 9 seasons with 10+ Td's, so far Johnson has just 3. Rice played for 21 seasons- Only 2 of which he didn't play at least 11 games (17 years with full 16 games played). Johnson is in year 7.

    To illustrate the unbelievable nature of Rice's career records.
    At this very moment Johnson is 14,238 yards and 136 TD's behind Rice.

    If Johnson plays 10 more years he's had to average 1,423 yards and 13 TD's for the rest of his career to match Rice ( I know this year isn't over so those figures will be lowered a little but the point remains) Johnson would have to play another decade at an ALL-Pro level to match Rice.
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  • HoustonHawk82 wrote:If you ask me, comparing Rice to Johnson is an apples to oranges deal.

    It was a different NFL back when Rice was setting all those records. The conventional wisdom of the time, with respect to the size and speed of corners and safeties, was totally different, and so was the way defenses covered. In that era Rice was taller and faster than most, and the system he operated in was not yet fully comprehended and defended like it is now. Erase 20 years off Rice's age and insert him into the Lions lineup with Stafford the gunslinger throwing and his stats are nowhere near what he accomplished in the 80's. Rice was good because of Walsh, Montana, and inept defenses not yet tuned-in to defending the WCO.

    Johnson is taller, stronger, and (IMO) faster than Rice, is playing in a completely different offensive system, against defenses that can shut down WC routes, and is being covered by faster and stronger (and better coached) DB's.

    I'll take Johnson over any receiver in history.


    You're mistaken when you say that He was bigger and faster than CB's and safeties in his day. He ran a 4.7 at the combine. He wasn't a burner. There were plenty of faster/ bigger players he went up against. Furthermore Johnson has it much easier today than Rice did. With the rules changes he has a much easier path to make plays do to the rules being in favor of the offense. defenses are worse today than in the past. Passing defenses are very suspect in today's game. More players are throwing for 300+ yards than at anytime in history.

    Lastly Rice was critical in SF winning 4 championships, yet Johnson with all his brilliance has made the postseason just once and his best season came when the team finished a dismal 4-12.

    I completely disagree Rice is the greatest WR to ever play the game, and there's an argument to be made that he's the best football player to ever play the game.
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  • This is an easy one for me.

    Jerry is probably right. Nobody could cover Jerry, so it's no disrespect for him to say that he doesn't think Sherman could. Just the same, Sherman is a competitor - so I understand where he's coming from too.

    To take it even further, 80% of the backups in the league probably feel that they are better than the guy who's in front of them on the depth chart. They just either "haven't gotten their shot" or "aren't put in situations to succeed". That's the mentality it takes to play sports, or be good at anything on the level we're talking about.

    Why even get caught up on some BS like this?
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  • Rice is an over confident prick. I always respect ex-players a lot more when they give current players props and celebrate talent and achievement. Otherwise, it just smells of hateraid and elitism.

    Rice was very lucky to play a LONG time with two very good QB's and supporting casts including a west coast scheme designed to get the WR's the ball early and often.

    I'm of the mind that today's players are better than yesteryear's players. They're bigger, faster and more prepared with today's technology and designs.

    Calvin Johnson is a better player right now than Rice was in his heyday.
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  • SirTed wrote:To take it even further, 80% of the backups in the league probably feel that they are better than the guy who's in front of them on the depth chart. They just either "haven't gotten their shot" or "aren't put in situations to succeed". That's the mentality it takes to play sports, or be good at anything on the level we're talking about.


    Great point, and well said.
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  • G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD
    2002 Oakland Raiders 16 16 92 1,211 13.2 75 7


    This is Jerry Rice's stat line the year he turned 40. He played 3 more seasons after this. If you took just his numbers AFTER he turned 30, he'd still be a shoo in for the HoF. There was never anything 'lucky' about Jerry Rice. I'd love to see Sherman up against Rice in his prime. I'm sure they'd both win some and both lose some and come away with a great deal of respect for each other. But seriously, for anyone to infer that Jerry Rice was a product of anything other than his hard work, dedication, and professionalism is ludicrous. If not the best player to ever play the game, he's on a very short list of players in consideration.
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  • jblaze wrote:including a west coast scheme designed to get the WR's the ball early and often.


    Put this in perspective, though. Of course Rice statistically benefited from playing in a pass first offense, but you don't think CJ statistically benefits from playing in what is essentially a pass only offense?

    Is it any surprise that Johnson's two best seasons came in years in which his QB threw the most passes in the history of the NFL, and the fifth most passes in the history of the NFL? For Rice, in his pass first offense, the most his QB ever through for was the 186th most pass attempts in NFL history (Montana), and the 200th most pass attempts in NFL history (Young).

    Claiming that Rice's pass-first scheme gave him an unfair advantage against CJ is just quite frankly bizarre.

    Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think if this wasn't a Seahawks board 50% of the people siding for CJ wouldn't be, and if we additionally limited it to people who were watching football when Rice was in his prime (as CJ now is), it would be closer to 95%.

    None of that is meant to take anything away from CJ though. He's incredibly skilled as a WR, one of the best players in the league, so far looks to be one of the best WRs of all time, and unlike Rice, he's a complete and total physical specimen. He's what you would create if you were making a WR in a lab. I still don't think he comes anywhere close to Rice, though. Rice is a special case, in that he's probably the only player in the history of the NFL who is undeniably the greatest of all time at his position. For every other position there is dispute. For WR, it's Rice, and then debates about who is second.
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Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:06 am
  • Scottemojo wrote:They are all hypothetical opinion questions, and thus stupid.
    The one truth is that Rice is as ass. He calls himself GOAT. Which means he could never admit anyone is as good as him. Never.


    Exactly, but how do you even measure GOAT? IMO the GOAT rb doesn't even hold a single record as far as I know. I think Alexander broke his last one, for consecutive games with a 10yd run.
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Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:08 am
  • jlwaters1 wrote:
    HoustonHawk82 wrote:If you ask me, comparing Rice to Johnson is an apples to oranges deal.

    It was a different NFL back when Rice was setting all those records. The conventional wisdom of the time, with respect to the size and speed of corners and safeties, was totally different, and so was the way defenses covered. In that era Rice was taller and faster than most, and the system he operated in was not yet fully comprehended and defended like it is now. Erase 20 years off Rice's age and insert him into the Lions lineup with Stafford the gunslinger throwing and his stats are nowhere near what he accomplished in the 80's. Rice was good because of Walsh, Montana, and inept defenses not yet tuned-in to defending the WCO.

    Johnson is taller, stronger, and (IMO) faster than Rice, is playing in a completely different offensive system, against defenses that can shut down WC routes, and is being covered by faster and stronger (and better coached) DB's.

    I'll take Johnson over any receiver in history.


    You're mistaken when you say that He was bigger and faster than CB's and safeties in his day. He ran a 4.7 at the combine. He wasn't a burner. There were plenty of faster/ bigger players he went up against. Furthermore Johnson has it much easier today than Rice did. With the rules changes he has a much easier path to make plays do to the rules being in favor of the offense. defenses are worse today than in the past. Passing defenses are very suspect in today's game. More players are throwing for 300+ yards than at anytime in history.

    Lastly Rice was critical in SF winning 4 championships, yet Johnson with all his brilliance has made the postseason just once and his best season came when the team finished a dismal 4-12.

    I completely disagree Rice is the greatest WR to ever play the game, and there's an argument to be made that he's the best football player to ever play the game.


    Ok, JLW, gotta question for you:

    You are Richard Sherman, with all his talent and stature on the outside, but your soul and brain operates his body. You make all the decisions and are 100% up to speed mentally with your assignments and skills.

    You are given a choice to make one final set of 15 practice reps in front of coaches and staff to earn a spot on the football team. You are asked to defend an elite receiver, in a designed set of routes/patterns and situations, and will be evaluated as to your ability to deny this receiver any catches. The quarterback for this test is Mr. Russell Wilson.

    You are asked to choose your poison between two receivers. Both are in their respective primes, are 100% fully healthy, and all available protective gear is available. Finally, an NFL side judge from circa 1995 will be observing all plays and will throw flags based on the NFL rules of that season.

    Which wide receiver do you choose to defend and why?
    A.) 2013 version of Calvin Johnson
    B.) 1990 version of Jerry Rice
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Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:19 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    themunn wrote:The fact of the matter is - yes, the league is more of a passing game than ever these days, but it's a hell of a lot easier to succeed with Montana and Young behind centre, who - in their 19 combined seasons as starters for the 49ers had just one season with less than 60% completion percentage (59.9% in 88).


    Or we could put this another way: Rice was playing in an era where completing more than 60% of your passes was considered very good, whereas Calvin is playing in an era where completing less than 60% of your passes is considered very bad.


    Yet his quarterbacks did it 18 out of a possible 19 years as starting QBs for the 49ers, ie. they were very good in every year.

    For Calvin's biggest season Stafford did only complete 59.8% of his passes, but he also threw ball 727 times (the most passes in a season in the history of the NFL) for 4967 yards (the 7th most passing yards in the history of the NFL). The season you're referring to '88 the 9ers attempted 556 passes compared to Stafford's 727 (e.g. 25% less passes thrown and the same completion percentage).


    For Rice's biggest season (1995), Young and GrBac combined for 644 pass attempts with 426 completions, ie. just NINE completions less than Staffords 435 last year. Stafford may throw the ball more, but that doesn't mean a damn if the ball isn't catchable - and it's a hell of a lot easier to defend the pass when you know the pass is coming on the majority of snaps.
    [/quote]

    Rice was also top 7 in receptions, yards, and TDs that year, which doesn't sound that great, until you remember that he was 36 years old by that point. There are only two times in the history of the NFL when a WR had a season as good as this past the age of 35: That was Jerry Rice when he was 39 years old, and Jerry Rice when he was 40 years old.

    Seriously, he has always been a jerk, but his ability as football player is pretty unimpeachable, IMO.


    This comparison is redundanct because Johnson is not 35 yet.
    The is no doubt Rice is better than everybody else that's ever played the position (except possibly Largent), but we won't ever be able to REALLY compare Rice and Megatron until their careers are both over.
    Currently, Johnson has more yards than Rice did at a similar stage in his career (both started at around the same age), and whilst he has fewer TDs, it's still a record that's in reach - Rice's TDs dropped dramatically when he reached his early 30s, but Johnson's massive frame means that when he does eventually lose his speed, it won't have as significant an effect, so I expect he will continue to consistently reach double digit TDs.
    The only thing that will really stand in Johnson's way of surpassign is injuries - he's been relatively healthy, m issing just 5 games in 6.5 years, but Rice was arguably the best ever when it came to that, playing every game in 18 of his first 19 years in the league.
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