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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:04 am 
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HoustonHawk82 wrote:
If you ask me, comparing Rice to Johnson is an apples to oranges deal.

It was a different NFL back when Rice was setting all those records. The conventional wisdom of the time, with respect to the size and speed of corners and safeties, was totally different, and so was the way defenses covered. In that era Rice was taller and faster than most, and the system he operated in was not yet fully comprehended and defended like it is now. Erase 20 years off Rice's age and insert him into the Lions lineup with Stafford the gunslinger throwing and his stats are nowhere near what he accomplished in the 80's. Rice was good because of Walsh, Montana, and inept defenses not yet tuned-in to defending the WCO.

Johnson is taller, stronger, and (IMO) faster than Rice, is playing in a completely different offensive system, against defenses that can shut down WC routes, and is being covered by faster and stronger (and better coached) DB's.

I'll take Johnson over any receiver in history.


You're mistaken when you say that He was bigger and faster than CB's and safeties in his day. He ran a 4.7 at the combine. He wasn't a burner. There were plenty of faster/ bigger players he went up against. Furthermore Johnson has it much easier today than Rice did. With the rules changes he has a much easier path to make plays do to the rules being in favor of the offense. defenses are worse today than in the past. Passing defenses are very suspect in today's game. More players are throwing for 300+ yards than at anytime in history.

Lastly Rice was critical in SF winning 4 championships, yet Johnson with all his brilliance has made the postseason just once and his best season came when the team finished a dismal 4-12.

I completely disagree Rice is the greatest WR to ever play the game, and there's an argument to be made that he's the best football player to ever play the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:15 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:16 am 
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This is an easy one for me.

Jerry is probably right. Nobody could cover Jerry, so it's no disrespect for him to say that he doesn't think Sherman could. Just the same, Sherman is a competitor - so I understand where he's coming from too.

To take it even further, 80% of the backups in the league probably feel that they are better than the guy who's in front of them on the depth chart. They just either "haven't gotten their shot" or "aren't put in situations to succeed". That's the mentality it takes to play sports, or be good at anything on the level we're talking about.

Why even get caught up on some BS like this?

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:35 am 
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Rice is an over confident prick. I always respect ex-players a lot more when they give current players props and celebrate talent and achievement. Otherwise, it just smells of hateraid and elitism.

Rice was very lucky to play a LONG time with two very good QB's and supporting casts including a west coast scheme designed to get the WR's the ball early and often.

I'm of the mind that today's players are better than yesteryear's players. They're bigger, faster and more prepared with today's technology and designs.

Calvin Johnson is a better player right now than Rice was in his heyday.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:41 am 
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SirTed wrote:
To take it even further, 80% of the backups in the league probably feel that they are better than the guy who's in front of them on the depth chart. They just either "haven't gotten their shot" or "aren't put in situations to succeed". That's the mentality it takes to play sports, or be good at anything on the level we're talking about.


Great point, and well said.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:49 am 
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G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD
2002 Oakland Raiders 16 16 92 1,211 13.2 75 7


This is Jerry Rice's stat line the year he turned 40. He played 3 more seasons after this. If you took just his numbers AFTER he turned 30, he'd still be a shoo in for the HoF. There was never anything 'lucky' about Jerry Rice. I'd love to see Sherman up against Rice in his prime. I'm sure they'd both win some and both lose some and come away with a great deal of respect for each other. But seriously, for anyone to infer that Jerry Rice was a product of anything other than his hard work, dedication, and professionalism is ludicrous. If not the best player to ever play the game, he's on a very short list of players in consideration.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:50 am 
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jblaze wrote:
including a west coast scheme designed to get the WR's the ball early and often.


Put this in perspective, though. Of course Rice statistically benefited from playing in a pass first offense, but you don't think CJ statistically benefits from playing in what is essentially a pass only offense?

Is it any surprise that Johnson's two best seasons came in years in which his QB threw the most passes in the history of the NFL, and the fifth most passes in the history of the NFL? For Rice, in his pass first offense, the most his QB ever through for was the 186th most pass attempts in NFL history (Montana), and the 200th most pass attempts in NFL history (Young).

Claiming that Rice's pass-first scheme gave him an unfair advantage against CJ is just quite frankly bizarre.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think if this wasn't a Seahawks board 50% of the people siding for CJ wouldn't be, and if we additionally limited it to people who were watching football when Rice was in his prime (as CJ now is), it would be closer to 95%.

None of that is meant to take anything away from CJ though. He's incredibly skilled as a WR, one of the best players in the league, so far looks to be one of the best WRs of all time, and unlike Rice, he's a complete and total physical specimen. He's what you would create if you were making a WR in a lab. I still don't think he comes anywhere close to Rice, though. Rice is a special case, in that he's probably the only player in the history of the NFL who is undeniably the greatest of all time at his position. For every other position there is dispute. For WR, it's Rice, and then debates about who is second.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:06 am 
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Scottemojo wrote:
They are all hypothetical opinion questions, and thus stupid.
The one truth is that Rice is as ass. He calls himself GOAT. Which means he could never admit anyone is as good as him. Never.


Exactly, but how do you even measure GOAT? IMO the GOAT rb doesn't even hold a single record as far as I know. I think Alexander broke his last one, for consecutive games with a 10yd run.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:08 am 
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jlwaters1 wrote:
HoustonHawk82 wrote:
If you ask me, comparing Rice to Johnson is an apples to oranges deal.

It was a different NFL back when Rice was setting all those records. The conventional wisdom of the time, with respect to the size and speed of corners and safeties, was totally different, and so was the way defenses covered. In that era Rice was taller and faster than most, and the system he operated in was not yet fully comprehended and defended like it is now. Erase 20 years off Rice's age and insert him into the Lions lineup with Stafford the gunslinger throwing and his stats are nowhere near what he accomplished in the 80's. Rice was good because of Walsh, Montana, and inept defenses not yet tuned-in to defending the WCO.

Johnson is taller, stronger, and (IMO) faster than Rice, is playing in a completely different offensive system, against defenses that can shut down WC routes, and is being covered by faster and stronger (and better coached) DB's.

I'll take Johnson over any receiver in history.


You're mistaken when you say that He was bigger and faster than CB's and safeties in his day. He ran a 4.7 at the combine. He wasn't a burner. There were plenty of faster/ bigger players he went up against. Furthermore Johnson has it much easier today than Rice did. With the rules changes he has a much easier path to make plays do to the rules being in favor of the offense. defenses are worse today than in the past. Passing defenses are very suspect in today's game. More players are throwing for 300+ yards than at anytime in history.

Lastly Rice was critical in SF winning 4 championships, yet Johnson with all his brilliance has made the postseason just once and his best season came when the team finished a dismal 4-12.

I completely disagree Rice is the greatest WR to ever play the game, and there's an argument to be made that he's the best football player to ever play the game.


Ok, JLW, gotta question for you:

You are Richard Sherman, with all his talent and stature on the outside, but your soul and brain operates his body. You make all the decisions and are 100% up to speed mentally with your assignments and skills.

You are given a choice to make one final set of 15 practice reps in front of coaches and staff to earn a spot on the football team. You are asked to defend an elite receiver, in a designed set of routes/patterns and situations, and will be evaluated as to your ability to deny this receiver any catches. The quarterback for this test is Mr. Russell Wilson.

You are asked to choose your poison between two receivers. Both are in their respective primes, are 100% fully healthy, and all available protective gear is available. Finally, an NFL side judge from circa 1995 will be observing all plays and will throw flags based on the NFL rules of that season.

Which wide receiver do you choose to defend and why?
A.) 2013 version of Calvin Johnson
B.) 1990 version of Jerry Rice

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:19 am 
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Popeyejones wrote:
themunn wrote:
The fact of the matter is - yes, the league is more of a passing game than ever these days, but it's a hell of a lot easier to succeed with Montana and Young behind centre, who - in their 19 combined seasons as starters for the 49ers had just one season with less than 60% completion percentage (59.9% in 88).


Or we could put this another way: Rice was playing in an era where completing more than 60% of your passes was considered very good, whereas Calvin is playing in an era where completing less than 60% of your passes is considered very bad.


Yet his quarterbacks did it 18 out of a possible 19 years as starting QBs for the 49ers, ie. they were very good in every year.

Quote:
For Calvin's biggest season Stafford did only complete 59.8% of his passes, but he also threw ball 727 times (the most passes in a season in the history of the NFL) for 4967 yards (the 7th most passing yards in the history of the NFL). The season you're referring to '88 the 9ers attempted 556 passes compared to Stafford's 727 (e.g. 25% less passes thrown and the same completion percentage).


For Rice's biggest season (1995), Young and GrBac combined for 644 pass attempts with 426 completions, ie. just NINE completions less than Staffords 435 last year. Stafford may throw the ball more, but that doesn't mean a damn if the ball isn't catchable - and it's a hell of a lot easier to defend the pass when you know the pass is coming on the majority of snaps.
[/quote]

Quote:
Rice was also top 7 in receptions, yards, and TDs that year, which doesn't sound that great, until you remember that he was 36 years old by that point. There are only two times in the history of the NFL when a WR had a season as good as this past the age of 35: That was Jerry Rice when he was 39 years old, and Jerry Rice when he was 40 years old.

Seriously, he has always been a jerk, but his ability as football player is pretty unimpeachable, IMO.


This comparison is redundanct because Johnson is not 35 yet.
The is no doubt Rice is better than everybody else that's ever played the position (except possibly Largent), but we won't ever be able to REALLY compare Rice and Megatron until their careers are both over.
Currently, Johnson has more yards than Rice did at a similar stage in his career (both started at around the same age), and whilst he has fewer TDs, it's still a record that's in reach - Rice's TDs dropped dramatically when he reached his early 30s, but Johnson's massive frame means that when he does eventually lose his speed, it won't have as significant an effect, so I expect he will continue to consistently reach double digit TDs.
The only thing that will really stand in Johnson's way of surpassign is injuries - he's been relatively healthy, m issing just 5 games in 6.5 years, but Rice was arguably the best ever when it came to that, playing every game in 18 of his first 19 years in the league.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:25 am 
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Popeyejones wrote:
Jerry Rice is an @sshole, that's totally undisputed, but he made Montana and Young who they were as much as they made him. In fact, two of his best statistical seasons with the 49ers were with Jeff Kemp, Mike Moroski, and Elvis Grbac spending as much time under center as Montana and Young. Stafford is no Montana or Young for sure, but he's no Kemp, Moroski or Grbac either.


Maybe Young, we can never really say for sure given Young never really played without him, but given Montana won 2 superbowls prior to Rice being drafted and had his 2nd and 4th best seasons statistically in the 2 seasons immediately before drafting Rice, it's safe to say he made himself


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:41 am 
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Last I checked, Rice is the greatest receiver of all time. Sherm has a lot to do before he gets there.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:48 am 
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I just watched an interview with Jerry Rice on the NFL network where Rice was asked if he thought Sherman had the ability to shut down Rice when Rice was still playing. Rice looked disgusted and irritated that he was being asked this question. Rice's reply was a very quick 'no'. To me it seemed almost disrespectful and over confident. Later on in the day Sherman tweeted to Rice that it sure is easy for Rice to talk when he isn't able to prove it on the field which is exactly what I was thinking during the Rice interview.

During Rice's interview he was also asked about Calvin Johnson breaking one of Rice's records last season and the possibility that Calvin might break all of Rice's records eventually. Rice again was somewhat disrespectful as he talked about Johnson. Rice indicated that Johnson wasn't yet a complete player (but on his way to becoming one). I thought this was absurd; Johnson almost had 2,000 yards receiving in a year! Johnson also just had the best receiving game in history (overtime excluded) only a few weeks back. In my opinion Calvin has already proved that, at his best, he is more dominant than Jerry Rice ever was. I may not be right, but I think it is at least a debatable topic.

Anyway, my point is that Jerry was running his mouth about a player who is clearly one of the best WRs to ever play the game and is still young. He also ran his mouth about Sherman. Sherman, in my opinion, is one of the best CBs, if not the best CB, in the league right now.

So back to Sherman's tweet... Rice could have approached the questions he was asked during his interview in many different ways, especially because we will never know what the answers are to these questions he was asked. He could have let the stats speak for themselves or he could have run his mouth and try to remind us all of how special he was. Rice choose to run his mouth. And we all know how Sherman feels about people who run their mouths... I wish a day would come where this match-up could happen (time travel or something) because i would pay to see Sherman ask Rice 'You mad Bro?'.

BTW, I think a player like Calvin Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, etc. would have answered these questions differently; with more respect. Rice, in my opinion, is insecure and a dick and in my opinion was never a true Hawk but only a dick who tried to steal a true Hawk's number... rant over...

I apologize if this topic was already posted... I looked for it but couldn't find anything; I thought it was worth mentioning though.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:59 am 
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HansGruber wrote:
justafan wrote:
They beat better CBs than Sherman.


Name one. The only CB as good as Sherman he ever faced was Deion Sanders and having watched them both, I think Sherman is better.


Way to discount guys like Darrell Green and Rod Woodson. And I think its pretty much a consensus that Deion was the best cover corner ever. Plus, you have to take into account the rules in place at the time. I think it just makes the comparisons more difficult.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:23 pm 
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talent wise? calvin johnson>jerry rice, in fact randy moss>jerry rice

jerry ran a 4.71 40 at his combine. compare that to calvin who ran a 4.32 40. or randy who ran 4.25. also factor in the height and vertical jump difference. randy and calvin were/are gamechangers. if you dont atleast double and gameplan around them, they destroy you. even having to double/triple team them opens things up incredibly for the offense. very few, if any could actually cover these guys 1v1.

the same just isnt true for jerry. jerry was a great route runner in his prime and had good hands. but as aforementioned he played on all star teams with hof quarterbacks. the same CANT be said for calvin or randy (except 1 RIDICULOUS year with brady... which btw is a great example).

jerry just never had the talent to be held in the same breathe as those two. i can comfortably say this because i watched jerry growing up as the 49ers being my dads fav team as i grew up. he wasnt too happy when i tore down the jerry rice poster he bought me lol.

anyway that all being said, its hard to imagine anybody having the complete CAREER of jerry rice. but if anybody could cover rice, sherm could. sherm hasnt had the career of a rod woodson/deon/etc but hes atleast on his way.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:44 pm 
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Jerry Rice is arguably the greatest player of all time. He has the right to be cocky, just like Michael Jordan. If Deion couldn't cover Jerry Rice then Sherman could not.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:49 pm 
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It was stupid for the NFL Network folks to even go there. It was disrespectful for those jokers to put anyone on the spot with this re-make of Jerry Jones' "Deion could shut down Calvin Johnson" idiocy.

For the OP to get worked up because Jerry said no just feeds into the insanity. What self-respecting athlete is going to cow down to the new-era athlete just to join in the butt kissing parade?

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:07 pm 
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To be honest I don't think Rice or Calvin Johnson would do much against Sherman in today's game with todays rules, with Seattle safeties at temperatures from 65-75 degrees, no rain and if all players were healthy..... lol There are too many factors to weigh this objectively, all you can see is either one would most likely get shut down by the Seattle defense. We know for a fact Calvin only racked up 46 yards on 3 catches on 8 targets with two drops last year. They say his knees were sore, sounds like his hands were sore.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:34 pm 
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I just think its funny that people rail on Rice for a simple thing like this but love Shermans arrogance and all his trash talking.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:42 pm 
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sekiuHAWK wrote:
I just watched an interview with Jerry Rice on the NFL network where Rice was asked if he thought Sherman had the ability to shut down Rice when Rice was still playing. Rice looked disgusted and irritated that he was being asked this question. Rice's reply was a very quick 'no'. To me it seemed almost disrespectful and over confident. Later on in the day Sherman tweeted to Rice that it sure is easy for Rice to talk when he isn't able to prove it on the field which is exactly what I was thinking during the Rice interview.

During Rice's interview he was also asked about Calvin Johnson breaking one of Rice's records last season and the possibility that Calvin might break all of Rice's records eventually. Rice again was somewhat disrespectful as he talked about Johnson. Rice indicated that Johnson wasn't yet a complete player (but on his way to becoming one). I thought this was absurd; Johnson almost had 2,000 yards receiving in a year! Johnson also just had the best receiving game in history (overtime excluded) only a few weeks back. In my opinion Calvin has already proved that, at his best, he is more dominant than Jerry Rice ever was. I may not be right, but I think it is at least a debatable topic.

Anyway, my point is that Jerry was running his mouth about a player who is clearly one of the best WRs to ever play the game and is still young. He also ran his mouth about Sherman. Sherman, in my opinion, is one of the best CBs, if not the best CB, in the league right now.

So back to Sherman's tweet... Rice could have approached the questions he was asked during his interview in many different ways, especially because we will never know what the answers are to these questions he was asked. He could have let the stats speak for themselves or he could have run his mouth and try to remind us all of how special he was. Rice choose to run his mouth. And we all know how Sherman feels about people who run their mouths... I wish a day would come where this match-up could happen (time travel or something) because i would pay to see Sherman ask Rice 'You mad Bro?'.

BTW, I think a player like Calvin Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Andre Johnson, etc. would have answered these questions differently; with more respect. Rice, in my opinion, is insecure and a dick and in my opinion was never a true Hawk but only a dick who tried to steal a true Hawk's number... rant over...

I apologize if this topic was already posted... I looked for it but couldn't find anything; I thought it was worth mentioning though.


Calvin and Rice are not even on the same planet. Calvin had a GREAT game, and in any specific game, you may have an argument. But Rice did not choose what games to show up in like Calvin --he always showed up. And to take that even one level higher, it wasn't for 1 year or 2 years or even 3 years, it was for 10+ years. That's what it takes to get to Rice level.

Oh yeah, he not only did it in regular season games, he did it in superbowls, where it counts. Now in football, I understand it's up to more than just a WR whether a team gets to a SB or not. But if you're going to get to the best eva convo, then you gotta get their somehow --or at least in the playoffs year after year --and prove it.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:45 pm 
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HansGruber wrote:
justafan wrote:
They beat better CBs than Sherman.


Name one. The only CB as good as Sherman he ever faced was Deion Sanders and having watched them both, I think Sherman is better.


You crazy mofo! I thought another poster took homerism to its heights comparing Tate to Tim Brown...but this takes the cake...Deon is the BEST CB I've ever seen. He completely shut down any WR he faced with few exceptions, to the point that the QB would not even TEST him. Deon may have been the best EVER at his position of any other player in the history of the game. You're smokin the homerism to even speak of Sherman in the same breath. And I believe Sherman is top 3 CBs in the league right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:54 pm 
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I love Sherman, but Rice in his prime would slaughter him.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:07 pm 
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Frohawk25360 wrote:
HansGruber wrote:
justafan wrote:
They beat better CBs than Sherman.


Name one. The only CB as good as Sherman he ever faced was Deion Sanders and having watched them both, I think Sherman is better.

Up for discussion prime time was a pretty complete player


This is a good comparison. Sanders was faster, and could make up for mistakes better. Sherman is turning out to be more technical, has good makeup speed, but doesn't have the top end speed.

Sanders added an electric ST prescence to the team; he added points and field position.

Sherman is 10x better in run support and tackling. He also causes more fumbles. Deion was a great cover corner, but he hated to hit/get hit and was soft in run support.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:52 pm 
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It's fun to picture what Sherm would be like in that era where a DB could rough up a WR up and down the field.

It's also scary to think what Jerry Rice would do in the modern era without those same rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:12 pm 
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I watched that same interview, and didn’t see any disrespect. You are reading too much into this.

Rice basically said he takes pride in beating physical corners by attacking them instead of allowing him to be pushed around. Despite that, at the end of the interview, he looked into the camera with a big smile, and said he still has a lot of love for Sherman.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:42 pm 
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I don't have huge outrage over what Rice said, but my personal take is that that Niner offense was very much a timing offense. I don't know if Sherm could shut Rice down, but I do think he could be effective in limiting him if he threw him to the ground or smacked him at the LOS and disrupted the timing. Montana was an (awesome) timing and anticipation guy, not the kind of guy to throw a laser at Rice after timing was disrupted.

Hey, Montana/Rice might very well have found another way to take advantage of Sherman's style of play, they were that good. But I allow for the possibility that Sherm might've done pretty well against them.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:51 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:24 pm 
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plyka wrote:
HansGruber wrote:
justafan wrote:
They beat better CBs than Sherman.


Name one. The only CB as good as Sherman he ever faced was Deion Sanders and having watched them both, I think Sherman is better.


You crazy mofo! I thought another poster took homerism to its heights comparing Tate to Tim Brown...but this takes the cake...Deon is the BEST CB I've ever seen. He completely shut down any WR he faced with few exceptions, to the point that the QB would not even TEST him. Deon may have been the best EVER at his position of any other player in the history of the game. You're smokin the homerism to even speak of Sherman in the same breath. And I believe Sherman is top 3 CBs in the league right now.



When did I ever say Deion was a bad CB? I think he was one of the best to ever play. I think he was the best to ever play until recently. But I've seen CBs in recent history who are simply better CBs - and Sherman is one of them. So are Patrick Peterson and Darrelle Revis. Sanders never had the ability to go over the top of a 6'4" receiver with the vertical leap of Calvin Johnson and bat the ball away like I have personally witnessed Sherman do.

Any old geezer Seahawk fan from back in the Knox days remembers how Rice played when he had to face our physical secondary. Nothing!! The Seahawks picked off Montana 3 times that game in 1985, Rice's rookie year, I'll never forget it because we still lost, all because of that darn Dwight Clark (who is WAY underrated). John Harris, Dave Brown and Kenny Easley totally shut down Rice, and Montana just kept throwing to Dwight Clark who was better against physical DBs. It's worth noting that Steve Largent had a better game than both of them.

When he came back in 1988 to Seattle, he torched us because we no longer had that big secondary. Kenny Easley, John Harris and Dave Brown were all gone. When Montana threw to Rice, Rice didn't have to battle the big boys. He generally lost those jump battles, so that was good for his stats. And he sure didn't like getting hit. To this day, I remember sitting in Candlestick Park in '85, my dad laughing because Rice was down on the field crying to the refs after Kenny Easley completely de-cleated his ass on a play he wasn't thrown at. The next play, John Harris cleaned his clock, and he was all upset, crying on the sidelines.

I'd LOVE to meet Rice in person so I can ask him about that. If he's so unafraid of Sherman, does he really think our Legion of Boom wouldn't bring the same type of pain that the 1985 Seahawks brought him? Because he was totally out of his element. He was crying like a bitch all day. Rice never liked the physical DBs.

When it came down to it, Rice was successful against Sanders because of his amazing conditioning - the guy was just fast the way he played, not a vertical down the field kind of fast, but really fast in his routes, able to get separation, and the first receiver I remember who could get 3 paces of separation just by juking a defender on his break. Not a ton of vertical leap, but ran amazingly crisp routes, had incredible hands, and could go get the ball against guys who weren't super tall or had great vertical. Sanders lost those battles because he relied on his conditioning and athleticism as well, but he wasn't physical, and Jerry was just a step above everyone when it came to pure conditioning.


You can sit here and wax poetic about sentimental nostalgia all day long. It doesn't change the facts for those of us who actually attended the games and watched Jerry Rice in person, in his prime. The fact that you earlier made some insipid statement about Rice being responsible for 4 SuperBowls speaks for itself. Jerry Rice wasn't even around for 4 SuperBowls. He only played in 3 for San Francisco. Those of us who were actually watching football back then remember clearly that it was Roger Craig and Dwight Clark responsible for those first two (along with Montana, Lott, etc). So excuse me if I find your hyperbole completely unimpressive, but you should at least know your history before you start talking smack to the fogies who actually attended games at Candlestick back in the 1980's.

Like I said, the reason I think Sherman and the Legion of Boom would shut him down is because he didn't win the physical matchups, no matter what he wants to believe. He was a skinny dude, super fast but real skinny. Our DBs would knock the crap out of him.

And I will never forget that look on his face on the play that Kenny Easley knocked him into another dimension in front of all those SF fans. That was so hilarious. I will never forget him crying to the refs and Kenny Easley making fun of him. So keep talking smack Rice, because you are talking to a bunch of kids who don't know the difference. Us old fogies remember how soft you were. This Legion of Boom would BREAK YOU.


Last edited by HansGruber on Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:28 pm 
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Jerry Rice is pretty much the best WR of recent memory. Why should he think that any corner could stop him? Come on now. This is silly.

Especially when he KNOWS he can't be disproven,, he's got his licks in, and then ran away from the fight.
Calvin Johnson is a damned freak, and one could only imagine what he'd have been like with someone like Montana, Young, Elway, Peyton Manning, or even Favre were throwing him the ball for Years and Years.
For as many Years as Rice played with Montana, and then Young in SF, he's bound to have racked up the numbers, but for him to stand himself up as the best there could ever could be is just stupid.
And one more fly in the ointment (for me anyhow) was him wearing a retired #80 Jersey while playing for the Seahawks, BECAUSE, he didn't do it the justice that it deserved.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
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Jerry Rice couldn't carry my golf clubs. 3 handicap my ass.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
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Rice wasn't a fast guy but he was pretty quick and an excellent route runner with great hands. Had some okay QB's throwing to him too. That said, a perfectly thrown ball will beat perfect coverage almost every time, so it doesn't really matter how elite a CB is; he'll be the one at a disadvantage.

Dumb argument.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
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Frohawk25360 wrote:
HansGruber wrote:
justafan wrote:
They beat better CBs than Sherman.


Name one. The only CB as good as Sherman he ever faced was Deion Sanders and having watched them both, I think Sherman is better.

Up for discussion prime time was a pretty complete player


Sherman is a waaaayyyy better tackler and waaayyy more physical than Deion Sanders ever thought of being... Just saying. Hard to be a complete player on defense when you're a horrible tackler and Sanders was notorious for bad tackling.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
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firebee wrote:
Sherman is a waaaayyyy better tackler and waaayyy more physical than Deion Sanders ever thought of being... Just saying. Hard to be a complete player on defense when you're a horrible tackler and Sanders was notorious for bad tackling.


Agreed. He would even agree with you on that. Prime time was all about the big play. He gave up alot of yards and points going after the pick. Nothing wrong with that, but Rice burned that style of DB his whole career.

Again, Rice hated physical DBs. Hated contact. It wasn't often that Rice got shutdown, but when he did it was when teams would hit him and knock him off his routes. The Seahawks did that in 1985, back when we had the original legion of Boom.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
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Jerry Rice was a bad bad man. I would have loved to see Sherman cover him with all the pulling and tugging that the corners were able to get away with back then. Rice would have beat him some games, but not every game (Catch streak would still be his). With that said with the rules of today I would go with Rice. Rice had to deal with all the pulling, pushing, tugging and was domainate. Sure the coverages are more advances then they were 20 years ago, but good route runners get open in all eras. Also we are talking one on one not secondary vs Rice. This is why the good running teams are starting to make a comeback, it takes a secondary to stop great recievers and while everyone is worried about getting burned by the pass, teams like the Hawks, Ravens and Niners beat them up with the run.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
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Hawks46 wrote:
Frohawk25360 wrote:
Up for discussion prime time was a pretty complete player


This is a good comparison. Sanders was faster, and could make up for mistakes better. Sherman is turning out to be more technical, has good makeup speed, but doesn't have the top end speed.

Sanders added an electric ST prescence to the team; he added points and field position.

Sherman is 10x better in run support and tackling. He also causes more fumbles. Deion was a great cover corner, but he hated to hit/get hit and was soft in run support.


Thank you. I loved Deion as a Seminole, still one of my favorites and paid attention quite a bit to his pro career and calling him anywhere near a complete player is incorrect. He was a lot like a matador in run support. He would step aside as the player ran right at him and try to arm tackle him in the pad area. It was like watching Tom Ashworth play LT.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
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Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald are both better, more complete WRs than Jerry Rice.

Barry Sanders was the greatest football player of all time. Totally dominated teams with literally no help. Nobody watched the Lions but everyone watched Barry Sanders. I've never seen a more entertaining player at any position.

Walter Payton and Joe Montana go on that list, too. Emmitt Smith is right up there, same with Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Reggie White, Lawrence Taylor, and Deacon Jones.

Jerry Rice was lucky to play with two of the greatest quarterbacks of all time, before the salary cap, on the most potent offense the NFL had ever seen. He was surrounded by hall of fame talent unlike anything since. Remember it was the hoarding of talent in San Fran that directly led to the salary cap.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
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This is what I thought when I heard this...

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As a Canadian...


This reminds me of when Maurice "The Rocket" Richard once commented that Gretzky wouldn't have scored as much if he played "in the old days."

Gretzky hit back at him in his book.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
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He's the GOAT....literally, he was voted the #1 player of all time in the history of the NFL on the NFLNs countdown. Not only the #1 WR of all time, the great player period. I wouldn't expect him to say anything different :)


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
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HansGruber wrote:
plyka wrote:
HansGruber wrote:
justafan wrote:
They beat better CBs than Sherman.


Name one. The only CB as good as Sherman he ever faced was Deion Sanders and having watched them both, I think Sherman is better.


You crazy mofo! I thought another poster took homerism to its heights comparing Tate to Tim Brown...but this takes the cake...Deon is the BEST CB I've ever seen. He completely shut down any WR he faced with few exceptions, to the point that the QB would not even TEST him. Deon may have been the best EVER at his position of any other player in the history of the game. You're smokin the homerism to even speak of Sherman in the same breath. And I believe Sherman is top 3 CBs in the league right now.



When did I ever say Deion was a bad CB? I think he was one of the best to ever play. I think he was the best to ever play until recently. But I've seen CBs in recent history who are simply better CBs - and Sherman is one of them. So are Patrick Peterson and Darrelle Revis. Sanders never had the ability to go over the top of a 6'4" receiver with the vertical leap of Calvin Johnson and bat the ball away like I have personally witnessed Sherman do.

Any old geezer Seahawk fan from back in the Knox days remembers how Rice played when he had to face our physical secondary. Nothing!! The Seahawks picked off Montana 3 times that game in 1985, Rice's rookie year, I'll never forget it because we still lost, all because of that darn Dwight Clark (who is WAY underrated). John Harris, Dave Brown and Kenny Easley totally shut down Rice, and Montana just kept throwing to Dwight Clark who was better against physical DBs. It's worth noting that Steve Largent had a better game than both of them.

When he came back in 1988 to Seattle, he torched us because we no longer had that big secondary. Kenny Easley, John Harris and Dave Brown were all gone. When Montana threw to Rice, Rice didn't have to battle the big boys. He generally lost those jump battles, so that was good for his stats. And he sure didn't like getting hit. To this day, I remember sitting in Candlestick Park in '85, my dad laughing because Rice was down on the field crying to the refs after Kenny Easley completely de-cleated his ass on a play he wasn't thrown at. The next play, John Harris cleaned his clock, and he was all upset, crying on the sidelines.

I'd LOVE to meet Rice in person so I can ask him about that. If he's so unafraid of Sherman, does he really think our Legion of Boom wouldn't bring the same type of pain that the 1985 Seahawks brought him? Because he was totally out of his element. He was crying like a bitch all day. Rice never liked the physical DBs.

When it came down to it, Rice was successful against Sanders because of his amazing conditioning - the guy was just fast the way he played, not a vertical down the field kind of fast, but really fast in his routes, able to get separation, and the first receiver I remember who could get 3 paces of separation just by juking a defender on his break. Not a ton of vertical leap, but ran amazingly crisp routes, had incredible hands, and could go get the ball against guys who weren't super tall or had great vertical. Sanders lost those battles because he relied on his conditioning and athleticism as well, but he wasn't physical, and Jerry was just a step above everyone when it came to pure conditioning.


You can sit here and wax poetic about sentimental nostalgia all day long. It doesn't change the facts for those of us who actually attended the games and watched Jerry Rice in person, in his prime. The fact that you earlier made some insipid statement about Rice being responsible for 4 SuperBowls speaks for itself. Jerry Rice wasn't even around for 4 SuperBowls. He only played in 3 for San Francisco. Those of us who were actually watching football back then remember clearly that it was Roger Craig and Dwight Clark responsible for those first two (along with Montana, Lott, etc). So excuse me if I find your hyperbole completely unimpressive, but you should at least know your history before you start talking smack to the fogies who actually attended games at Candlestick back in the 1980's.

Like I said, the reason I think Sherman and the Legion of Boom would shut him down is because he didn't win the physical matchups, no matter what he wants to believe. He was a skinny dude, super fast but real skinny. Our DBs would knock the crap out of him.

And I will never forget that look on his face on the play that Kenny Easley knocked him into another dimension in front of all those SF fans. That was so hilarious. I will never forget him crying to the refs and Kenny Easley making fun of him. So keep talking smack Rice, because you are talking to a bunch of kids who don't know the difference. Us old fogies remember how soft you were. This Legion of Boom would BREAK YOU.


I cant freaking believe this. You must be a young kid who has never seen primerime play. You think revis, Peterson and Sherman are all better CBs than deon Sanders? I just cant believe that anyone who has seen deon play would utter such nonsense. Its simply not possible to say that Patrick Peterson is better than primetime if you have seen him play. Absolutely impossible, as in out of 1000 people, in a blind review, I cant even see one person saying Peterson is better than primetime. Literally impossible. I hope ive beat home the point about the impossibility of it all.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:36 pm 
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scutterhawk wrote:
SeaTown81 wrote:
Jerry Rice is pretty much the best WR of recent memory. Why should he think that any corner could stop him? Come on now. This is silly.

Especially when he KNOWS he can't be disproven,, he's got his licks in, and then ran away from the fight.
Calvin Johnson is a damned freak, and one could only imagine what he'd have been like with someone like Montana, Young, Elway, Peyton Manning, or even Favre were throwing him the ball for Years and Years.
For as many Years as Rice played with Montana, and then Young in SF, he's bound to have racked up the numbers, but for him to stand himself up as the best there could ever could be is just stupid.
And one more fly in the ointment (for me anyhow) was him wearing a retired #80 Jersey while playing for the Seahawks, BECAUSE, he didn't do it the justice that it deserved.


There really is no question as to who is the GOAT. In football you have to look at their position as in who is the best ever at his position. There are a few players who you can say are better at their position more than any other player is better than anybody at their position. Two of those people are Rice and Deon, LOL, and both are somehow being dragged through the mud on this board.

Last post on the subject because I just cant take this type of talk any longer but there is no comparison between rice and megatron, its not even close. And there is absolutely no question between deon Sanders and Sherman, again not even close. In fact Sherman is most likely not even the best player I. His own secondary I think that goes to Thomas.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
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How is this a big deal to anyone except Sherman himself? I can imagine Sherman in 2040 being asked if he could get beat by [insert future all-pro WR] when Sherman was still playing. He'd probably say no, then [insert future all-pro WR] would call out Sherman out on Twitter. Not anything wrong with it - just their competitive mindset.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
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Deon is easily the best cover corner I've seen play, followed by Revis pre-injury. Sherman is special and could be the best right now, but better than Primetime? That feels somehow.... Blasphemous?


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
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plyka wrote:
scutterhawk wrote:
SeaTown81 wrote:
Jerry Rice is pretty much the best WR of recent memory. Why should he think that any corner could stop him? Come on now. This is silly.

Especially when he KNOWS he can't be disproven,, he's got his licks in, and then ran away from the fight.
Calvin Johnson is a damned freak, and one could only imagine what he'd have been like with someone like Montana, Young, Elway, Peyton Manning, or even Favre were throwing him the ball for Years and Years.
For as many Years as Rice played with Montana, and then Young in SF, he's bound to have racked up the numbers, but for him to stand himself up as the best there could ever could be is just stupid.
And one more fly in the ointment (for me anyhow) was him wearing a retired #80 Jersey while playing for the Seahawks, BECAUSE, he didn't do it the justice that it deserved.


There really is no question as to who is the GOAT. In football you have to look at their position as in who is the best ever at his position. There are a few players who you can say are better at their position more than any other player is better than anybody at their position. Two of those people are Rice and Deon, LOL, and both are somehow being dragged through the mud on this board.

Last post on the subject because I just cant take this type of talk any longer but there is no comparison between rice and megatron, its not even close. And there is absolutely no question between deon Sanders and Sherman, again not even close. In fact Sherman is most likely not even the best player I. His own secondary I think that goes to Thomas.






I think Walter Jones was better than Jerry Rice.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:12 pm 
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Man o man, Richard Sherman has been in the league for 3 freaking years. He is easily one of the top 3 corners in the league. This is coming from one of your Niner trolls. Harbs made the wrong decision not drafting him or trying to. Oh well it works out that way sometimes, but please dont compare this guy to Deon. He couldnt carry his Jock on the field as well as a guy like Darell Green who could it all as well. In 3 or 4 years then yeah maybe there can be talk, but after 2.5 seasons? Rice did it for the better part of 21 seasons. He has faced corners of all shapes and sizes, he probably didnt even find out Shermans name until last year. Its almost comical, Richard needs to shut down guys like TY Hilton before he goes back in time to try and shut down Rice. He isnt exactly setting the world on fire as of late. Many people on here say thank god that Aldon has Justin Smith, I say thank God Richard Sherman has Earl Thomas who makes him look so much better. Earl Thomas is the true star of the Seahawks. I would give an arm to have him. Sherm should write a thankyou note to him every week.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:38 pm 
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seahawkswin1 wrote:
Also we are talking one on one not secondary vs Rice. This is why the good running teams are starting to make a comeback, it takes a secondary to stop great recievers and while everyone is worried about getting burned by the pass, teams like the Hawks, Ravens and Niners beat them up with the run.

That was one of my points, it is nearly impossible to know what corners today are capable of without their respective safeties. I guess a good question would be how good would Deion Sanders have been if he had Earl Thomas backing him up. Wow... I'd like to see that.


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:44 pm 
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Nobody can contain the late great Jerry Rice!

Now that we're done talking about only his ego, I wonder how he'd do with Sherman in man coverage on him for a whole game, both in their primes.

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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
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Vandelay wrote:
Man o man, Richard Sherman has been in the league for 3 freaking years. He is easily one of the top 3 corners in the league. This is coming from one of your Niner trolls. Harbs made the wrong decision not drafting him or trying to. Oh well it works out that way sometimes, but please dont compare this guy to Deon. He couldnt carry his Jock on the field as well as a guy like Darell Green who could it all as well. In 3 or 4 years then yeah maybe there can be talk, but after 2.5 seasons? Rice did it for the better part of 21 seasons. He has faced corners of all shapes and sizes, he probably didnt even find out Shermans name until last year. Its almost comical, Richard needs to shut down guys like TY Hilton before he goes back in time to try and shut down Rice. He isnt exactly setting the world on fire as of late. Many people on here say thank god that Aldon has Justin Smith, I say thank God Richard Sherman has Earl Thomas who makes him look so much better. Earl Thomas is the true star of the Seahawks. I would give an arm to have him. Sherm should write a thankyou note to him every week.


Sherman isn't setting the world on fire as of late? Lol he is tied for #1 with 4 interceptions and most QB's won't even throw to his side of the field. I do agree with you on Earl though, he also has 4 interceptions. hmm :141847_bnono:


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 Post subject: Re: Jerry Rice Versus Richard Sherman Rant
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:20 am 
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Largent should have paid Rice for the honor of the GOAT wearing his jersey. Sherman would be asking Jerry for his autograph, after he tried covering him, and Calvin Johnson would Neal down and kiss Rice's rings. This thread is a total joke that should be locked out of principle.


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