Sean Payton Was Toxic in Denver, Not Russell Wilson?

NoGain

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This is very old news to me. Everyone whose been paying attention knows that Payton did not want RW as his QB for then or the future. It was a toxic situation that they both were agents of. Most people who've been paying attention know that as well. Sorry, but this just seems like another kick of the dead horse.
 

Ozzy

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Yeah I argued this as well. Wilson wasn’t as bad as many believe regardless of his shortcomings and I think he just wasn’t what Payton wanted. We will see how he does with his guy, Nix.
 
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toffee

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I never liked Payton, and I particularly don't like how he bullied Wilson. From leaking Wilson repeatedly called Drew Brees, to public humiliated Wilson. If he's doing it to Wilson, as a creature of habit, he could be doing the same with other players.

I pray that Broncos go 4-13.
 

keasley45

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Thing is, people seem to forget that in the beginning, Peyton was as diplomatic as i think one could expect when asked about what he thought of Russ's entourage. I think he was annoyed, but didnt blast him.

He also didnt tear him down in the preseason and during camp when reports said he was often struggling to execute concepts. Hackett was actually passively more direct when he saw the same thing in camp, remarking that his number 1 challenge with Russ, several weeks into camp was getting him to understand his reads😯. Many heard that and eyebrows went up. What followed over the course of 2022 was essentially Russ's audition tape for Sean. And in almost every respect, Sean saw it as a failure and non starter for his system. I think he also sae Hackett as a weak leader for not calling a soade a soade and demanding accoubtability

i think Peyton would have been easier on Russ's failures if not for the tone defness and seeming lack of awareness or acknowledgment for his faults he brings along with him. But Russ can never ever say ' hey, i have to learn how to read defenses better and be able to really grasp this offense'. Thats never going to occur. Nit if he wants to maintain his legacy. And for Peyton to have lived with Russ, that ackowledgment had to be reality. Without that, its all a circus where staff and players have to go along with the version of truth that HAS to be if Russ is going to be allowed to do what he does to succeed and the offense (and team) have to follow.

Peyton is cut from the same cloth as Bill Parcells. He's never going to suffer players who's personas are more formidable than their on the field ability. The article bashes him as if HE were in the wrong for knowing from day one who Russ really was and rejecting the self entitlement Russ brought with him from Seattle.

None of it was a shock. Russ never was a fit for Peyton. Ever. Despite fans and pundits thinking that the QB whispering coach and he would be a great fit. Im sure if Peyton never had to deal with the media hoopla Russ himself created, or if Russ flat said 'im not playing the position the way i need to' he'd not have been so hard on the dude.

But if Peyton saw through the thin veil of who folks thought Russ was and who he HAS to portray himself to be, even while he was in Seattle, and then whitnessed all the BS with Russ demanding X and Y and carrying on as if he's something he's not (in SP and now many others eyes - an true QB capabke of running an NFL system), ... i think any hard-nosed coach or leader who demands accoubtability and improvement, especially from his team leaders, is going to look to set that situation straight.

I personally think Peyton is also a bit full of himself. But this was always going to end up a situation where 2 immovable objects - a HC who is known for his play design and ability to design wins schematically , and a QB who would never openly admit that he's not able to process the game at the level required to realize the value of a complex scheme would collide. And only one would be allowed to stay in Denver.

I think SP knew it would fail (theres no way it coukdnt) but tolerated the 'show' for as long as he could.

In Denver, Russ played it all as humbly as he could without giving up the truth of his struggles, licked his wounds, and is now in Pittsburgh, hoping he can find a little bit more of the freedom PC afforded him to just play Russ-ball. I doubt it will ever happen for him again. The cost is simply too high to sustain the facade that everything is ok when in so many instances, THE thing required to see improvement as a team and an individual is a player (ESPECIALLY THE QB) or coach acknowledging the truth of why something is failing. Russ cant do it and the moment a HC chooses to deny the truth himself, in front of the other 52 players he leads, the system falls apart.

It happened in Seattle. It happened in Denver. It will happen in Pittsburgh IF Tomlin doesnt correct things if they start to go south and Russ's struggles arent somehow addressed. One benefit Russ has in Pittsburgh is that Tomlin was soft on Ben during the tail end of his career and actually stood silently while Ben was openly critical of him as a coach. In other words, Tomlin is seemingly the antithesis of SP in that regard. So maybe he does find a bit more latitude to 'be Russ'.

Its gonna be an interesting year, thats for sure.
 

knownone

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Sean Payton probably was toxic. He's that sort of guy—a straight shooter who doesn't care about optics or office politics. I have zero doubts that he entered that locker room looking to challenge Russ. He took over a team with a QB on a bloated contract who'd underperformed and done everything imaginable to put himself above the team (private office, staff, media, etc...). Unfortunately, Russ was the perfect target for Payton to send a message to the rest of the team. And look, if Russ had performed, he could have flipped the script and proven Payton wrong. Aaron Rodgers did that in his last couple of years in GB. Russ didn't. He was, at best, mediocre.
 

JPatera76

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Sean Payton would never in a million years take a job where he was locked into Russell Wilson at QB.

He was always going to force him out.

I think a lot thought and agree on this , except the foolish Denver fans.
 

Aircrew

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I think SP took the Denver job with the open understanding that he had the authority to move off Russ if/when he determined he wasn't a fit for SP's system. I also think that while SP was going to give it his best with Russ, he knew it was over before it even started. Given all of the RW baggage and regression on the field, it was never going to work.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Yeah, that clearly was on Russ :rolleyes:
I know most hate the guy, and that's fine, but they did him dirty in Denver. Shoot, I have several friends who spend much of their lives blasting Russ, and MOST of them are even siding with Satan Wilson. That says it all, imo. Peyton is a known prick/p.o.s.
 

RiverDog

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I think there is quite a bit of merit to this argument. Payton was way out of line when he ripped into Russell on the sideline knowing that the TV cameras and social media would be all over it. There's a golden rule in supervision, parenting, or any other position of authority that Payton broke: Praise in public and criticize in private. I understand that there are times in the heat of the moment that a coach can't help but unload on a player in public, but this didn't seem to me to be one of them. It was an incomplete pass and he opted away from a 10-yard gain, not a game changing pick 6 or failing to see a wide-open receiver open for a sure TD.

That doesn't mean that it was all Payton's fault, just that there's quite a bit of blame to spread around.
 

Aircrew

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This last sentence tells me exactly how laughably off base this article is:

"The reports out of Denver that Wilson was out of touch and an elitist seem to have been unfounded."

Funny, that's exactly what was said by countless people about Russell Wilson after he was traded from Seattle in 2022. I guess it's just a coincidence that the same narrative popped up about him in Denver. Right.

To overlook the nearly catastrophic regression of Russell Wilson in 2022 as the cause for his demise in Denver and claim instead that a first year Superbowl winning Head Coach cut a QB that triggered an $85 million dead cap hit simply because "he didn't like Russell" is quite the feat of intellectual dishonesty. If Russ was capable of being a franchise QB in Sean Payton's offense, he'd still be there. The fact is, Russell didn't fit into SP's offense, his skillset had diminished to a level that wasn't comensurate with being a franchise guy nor his compensation level, he has a metric ton of diva baggage and, last but not least, he has an accountability problem. You don't pay someone $85 million dollars to play against you when they're still capable of playing at the franchise QB level. You make that decision when said player not being on your team is more valuable than what it will cost you to cut them. In this case, that cost is substantial. That, right there, should tell you all you need to know.
 
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SoulfishHawk

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Can't wait to see BO AND 3 and the Donkey's get their asses handed to them in the opener. BO AND 3 is used to losing to teams from Seattle, so it's a natural progression.
 

RiverDog

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This last sentence tells me exactly how laughably off base this article is:

"The reports out of Denver that Wilson was out of touch and an elitist seem to have been unfounded."

Funny, that's exactly what was said by countless people about Russell Wilson after he was traded from Seattle in 2022. I guess it's just a coincidence that the same narrative popped up about him in Denver. Right.

To overlook the nearly catastrophic regression of Russell Wilson in 2022 as the cause for his demise in Denver and claim instead that a first year Superbowl winning Head Coach cut a QB that triggered an $85 million dead cap hit simply because "he didn't like Russell" is quite the feat of intellectual dishonesty. If Russ was capable of being a franchise QB in Sean Payton's offense, he'd still be there. The fact is, Russell didn't fit into SP's offense, his skillset had diminished to a level that wasn't comensurate with being a franchise guy nor his compensation level, he has a metric ton of diva baggage and, last but not least, he has an accountability problem. You don't pay someone $85 million dollars to play against you when they're still capable of playing at the franchise QB level. You make that decision when said player not being on your team is more valuable that what it will cost you to cut them. In this case, that cost is substantial. That, right there, should tell you all you need to know.
I disagree with the statement that you highlighted in bold, at least as far as being an 'elitist'. The fact that Russell had his own special privileges not afforded to any of his teammates, i.e. his own office, his own coaches, et al, proves that he was being afforded special treatment, in other words, an elitist. I also agree with the rest of your statement, that there was a reason, more than just an inability to adapt to a head coach's' style, that the Broncos opted to move on.

There's no doubt in my mind that Payton was toxic, that for whatever reason, he didn't get along with Russell Wilson and that some of his actions were unprofessional and driven by a personal dislike.
 

RiverDog

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Can't wait to see BO AND 3 and the Donkey's get their asses handed to them in the opener. BO AND 3 is used to losing to teams from Seattle, so it's a natural progression.
Yeah, me, too. I'm more excited about this upcoming season than I have been about others in quite some time.
 

Seahawks Guy

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Maybe neither were toxic, and Russ just wasn't a good fit in the grand scheme of business decisions?

Of course, people like to think there's always a bad guy and good guy in almost any situation where people go their separate ways.
 
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