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Camp - LJ Collier

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Camp - LJ Collier
Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:23 am
  • It is less lamenting over a past draft than putting things in perspective.

    LJ was not that impressive in college. He was good. But if we look at him as a 3rd rounder, we can reset expectations. We lost Savage but we have stellar safeties now. It cost us more but that is spilled milk. Losing Savage was not a killer like it seemed.

    In a typical draft you are going to get 1, maybe 2 players that make any kind of impact. We had Metcalf make a huge impact from Day 1. He produced like a 1st rounder. So we don't need LJ to turn into anything. As of now, 2019 was a successful draft.

    If LJ was picked lower, where he should have been, then this handwringing would make no sense. We don't need him to be great. We got a guy that looks like he is going to be great. We just need LJ to be good, maybe even just serviceable.

    Expecting 2 above average starters in one draft makes no sense based on the #s. 2012ish drafts are the exception, not the norm. We already have what looks like 1 potential star in this one. Asking for more is almost greedy.



    (If LJ is good at handfighting that is huge though. Most of the very good pass rushers are great at handfighting. That is huge and great news for LJ potentially being useful).
    TwistedHusky
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Re: Camp - LJ Collier
Wed Aug 19, 2020 8:52 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:It is less lamenting over a past draft than putting things in perspective.

    LJ was not that impressive in college. He was good. But if we look at him as a 3rd rounder, we can reset expectations. We lost Savage but we have stellar safeties now. It cost us more but that is spilled milk. Losing Savage was not a killer like it seemed.

    In a typical draft you are going to get 1, maybe 2 players that make any kind of impact. We had Metcalf make a huge impact from Day 1. He produced like a 1st rounder. So we don't need LJ to turn into anything. As of now, 2019 was a successful draft.

    If LJ was picked lower, where he should have been, then this handwringing would make no sense. We don't need him to be great. We got a guy that looks like he is going to be great. We just need LJ to be good, maybe even just serviceable.

    Expecting 2 above average starters in one draft makes no sense based on the #s. 2012ish drafts are the exception, not the norm. We already have what looks like 1 potential star in this one. Asking for more is almost greedy.



    (If LJ is good at handfighting that is huge though. Most of the very good pass rushers are great at handfighting. That is huge and great news for LJ potentially being useful).


    Your post is mostly about a past draft. Our structured forums have a forum dedicated to the draft located here >>> http://www.seahawks.net/viewforum.php?f=18

    This current topic focuses on LJ Collier's role for training camp 2020.
    Jville
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Re: Camp - LJ Collier
Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:03 am
  • Jville wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:It is less lamenting over a past draft than putting things in perspective.

    LJ was not that impressive in college. He was good. But if we look at him as a 3rd rounder, we can reset expectations. We lost Savage but we have stellar safeties now. It cost us more but that is spilled milk. Losing Savage was not a killer like it seemed.

    In a typical draft you are going to get 1, maybe 2 players that make any kind of impact. We had Metcalf make a huge impact from Day 1. He produced like a 1st rounder. So we don't need LJ to turn into anything. As of now, 2019 was a successful draft.

    If LJ was picked lower, where he should have been, then this handwringing would make no sense. We don't need him to be great. We got a guy that looks like he is going to be great. We just need LJ to be good, maybe even just serviceable.

    Expecting 2 above average starters in one draft makes no sense based on the #s. 2012ish drafts are the exception, not the norm. We already have what looks like 1 potential star in this one. Asking for more is almost greedy.



    (If LJ is good at handfighting that is huge though. Most of the very good pass rushers are great at handfighting. That is huge and great news for LJ potentially being useful).


    Your post is mostly about a past draft. Our structured forums have a forum dedicated to the draft located here >>> http://www.seahawks.net/viewforum.php?f=18

    This current topic focuses LJ Collier's role for 2020.



    Just curious, but I don't see how his post is that off topic. He was after all drafted by us as a first round pick. So it is relevant to his role and expected performance for 2020. At least that is how I see it.

    But to the role aspect, I would take any serviceable rotation player out of LJ for this year. I don't see a starter and he may never get to that point in his career. The man had too many healthy scratches last year for me to be that optimistic, but we will see. Of course, if he somehow became a quality 3tech DT that would be pretty impressive!
    kf3339
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Re: Camp - LJ Collier
Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:03 am
  • Would people be this concerned about LJ or would this entire thread topic exist if LJ was a 3rd rounder like he should have been?

    His role is probably to play in spots, contribute where he can (if he can) and get better. Like you normally expect a 3rd rounder to do,

    Expecting the guy to contribute significantly in Year 2 isn't likely. Maybe he can add some depth and contribute in special teams. But there is no reason to expect anything else.
    TwistedHusky
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Re: Camp - LJ Collier
Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:53 am
  • kf3339 wrote:
    Jville wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:It is less lamenting over a past draft than putting things in perspective.

    LJ was not that impressive in college. He was good. But if we look at him as a 3rd rounder, we can reset expectations. We lost Savage but we have stellar safeties now. It cost us more but that is spilled milk. Losing Savage was not a killer like it seemed.

    In a typical draft you are going to get 1, maybe 2 players that make any kind of impact. We had Metcalf make a huge impact from Day 1. He produced like a 1st rounder. So we don't need LJ to turn into anything. As of now, 2019 was a successful draft.

    If LJ was picked lower, where he should have been, then this handwringing would make no sense. We don't need him to be great. We got a guy that looks like he is going to be great. We just need LJ to be good, maybe even just serviceable.

    Expecting 2 above average starters in one draft makes no sense based on the #s. 2012ish drafts are the exception, not the norm. We already have what looks like 1 potential star in this one. Asking for more is almost greedy.



    (If LJ is good at handfighting that is huge though. Most of the very good pass rushers are great at handfighting. That is huge and great news for LJ potentially being useful).


    Your post is mostly about a past draft. Our structured forums have a forum dedicated to the draft located here >>> http://www.seahawks.net/viewforum.php?f=18

    This current topic focuses LJ Collier's role for 2020.



    Just curious, but I don't see how his post is that off topic. He was after all drafted by us as a first round pick. So it is relevant to his role and expected performance for 2020. At least that is how I see it.

    But to the role aspect, I would take any serviceable rotation player out of LJ for this year. I don't see a starter and he may never get to that point in his career. The man had too many healthy scratches last year for me to be that optimistic, but we will see. Of course, if he somehow became a quality 3tech DT that would be pretty impressive!


    Once camp starts it doesn't matter about where returning incumbents were drafted. The draft forum is the perfect place for second guessing past draft executions. The original thread was clearly defined in the subject line ..... "Camp - LJ Collier"
    Jville
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Re: Camp - LJ Collier
Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:45 pm
  • So, why did we waste a 1st round pick on a player you acknowledge as a 3rd round talent? We piss away our first rounders every year and treat them like they aren’t that valuable because JS and PC have drafted for crap in the first round for so long. Reality is they are very valuable.

    Just because an idiot keeps crashing a Porsche into a light pole every year does not make it less valuable than a Camry just because the driver is a schlemiel.
    JayhawkMike
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Re: Camp - LJ Collier
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:44 pm
  • JayhawkMike wrote:So, why did we waste a 1st round pick on a player you acknowledge as a 3rd round talent? We piss away our first rounders every year and treat them like they aren’t that valuable because JS and PC have drafted for crap in the first round for so long. Reality is they are very valuable.

    Just because an idiot keeps crashing a Porsche into a light pole every year does not make it less valuable than a Camry just because the driver is a schlemiel.


    Very rare you get a draft where a team has more than 20 guys with a true first round grade. DL came off the board very quickly in the latter half of the first round, so they took the last one they had in the same talent tier before a significant dropoff occurred. They had a glaring need at the spot and wanted to come away with someone there. This is corroborated by PC/JS themselves in interviews.

    At the back end of the first, you're looking at almost exactly even odds that you get a decent starter out of it. Jury is still out on Collier.
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Re: Camp - LJ Collier
Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:51 pm
  • JayhawkMike wrote:So, why did we waste a 1st round pick on a player you acknowledge as a 3rd round talent? We piss away our first rounders every year and treat them like they aren’t that valuable because JS and PC have drafted for crap in the first round for so long. Reality is they are very valuable.

    Just because an idiot keeps crashing a Porsche into a light pole every year does not make it less valuable than a Camry just because the driver is a schlemiel.


    This is a question that should have been asked last year, time to move on and see how he does being coached and formed into a roll he is set to play now.
    chris98251
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Re: Camp - LJ Collier
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:18 am
  • chris98251 wrote:
    JayhawkMike wrote:So, why did we waste a 1st round pick on a player you acknowledge as a 3rd round talent? We piss away our first rounders every year and treat them like they aren’t that valuable because JS and PC have drafted for crap in the first round for so long. Reality is they are very valuable.

    Just because an idiot keeps crashing a Porsche into a light pole every year does not make it less valuable than a Camry just because the driver is a schlemiel.


    This is a question that should have been asked last year, time to move on and see how he does being coached and formed into a roll he is set to play now.
    My expectation of him is quite low, just hope that he could contribute doesn't become a liability.

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Re: Camp - LJ Collier
Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:25 am
  • I was watching that draft as player after player at his position came off the board. I HOPE he shows something this year. I have not written him off. I think the team had position fixation and instead of picking the top 1-2 player at a different position of need picked the 7th player at that position. Yes, there is nothing to do about it now. And, we won't be wasting first round picks for a couple of years. However, if Adams does not re-sign . . .
    JayhawkMike
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Re: Camp - LJ Collier
Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:51 am
  • The way they kept TC so under wraps we didn't get much of anything to look at regarding Collier advancement. All we really got was Pete telling us he looks more explosive than he did last year. Last year his explosion was somewhere in the damp powder range. All we can do is watch and hope something good happens.
    Regarding upcoming draft/s; " However, if Adams does not re-sign . . ." is the sticker. If Adams turns into another Clowney debacle we will have squandered a TON of draft capital for 2 temporary band aids.
    Appyhawk
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Re: Camp - LJ Collier
Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:48 pm
  • As the thread is about Collier and not Adams I digress. To me the team will find a way to massage a nice contract for Adams that will make him a Hawk for a long time, losing 2- 1sts and a 3rd will be seen as too high a price to pay to not find a contract deal that keeps Adams happy.

    Back to the thread, it is hard for anyone to truly say what the team has in Collier. You can be negative and say Pete is engaged in coach speak to talk up a player that so far has not shown what the team had hoped he'd deliver, or accept what Pete has said and cross your fingers that Collier will show he he can play outside/in type DLine as he was drafted to play or even could be somewhat effective as a 3 tech despite a lack of size. At present given the number of similar players to Collier on the roster I don't know that anyone could say for sure until we watch a few games and see if his physicality will show through.

    I will watch patiently as there were reasons why the team drafted Collier. The folks here who think he could have been drafted way too soon fail to recall the cliff that was at DE in the last draft after the first few candidates. Collier did kick some tail at the Senior Bowl and was impressive there which certainly helped his draft status to the team.
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