a Russell Wilson critique

hoxrox":e8shz18m said:

John63":e8shz18m said:

hoxrox":e8shz18m said:

gowazzu02":e8shz18m said:

I believe it was UK, ultimately it comes down to 35 Million of cap for one player. Unless your QB is Tom Brady your team wont win a Superbowl doing that.....

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Yup and despite calls for better o-line and more weapons, Pete and JS are still building defense. Because they know that defense wins championships.

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Hmm had a top 10 defense in 2011 and were 7-9. Yes a great defense is important but you still need to score. A perfect example is last years top scoring defense was LAR and at least in large part to not having a good QB they did not even get to the SB. I can go on. A great defense alone will not win you anything, you need offense as well.

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Of course you still need offense. You need balance - the Bucs were very balanced. But if you had only 10 eggs, I would put 6 of those eggs into building a dominate defense.

If you're into fantasy football, go offense. If you're into championships, go defense.

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and if you look at what they have been doing in fa that is about right so far 60/40

John63":2jy0es63 said:

hoxrox":2jy0es63 said:

NINEster":2jy0es63 said:

It's on Carroll/Schneider to rebuild the defense and find a way to get a top flight running game.

It doesn't need to be #1 in points allowed in defense but something maybe top 5-10.

Might need a top 3 RB. A Derrick Henry would keep me up at night.

But as mentioned before, postseason Wilson is not quite the same as peak regular season Wilson.

Only 2015 Carolina and 2016 Atlanta scored more than 30 points against the Seahawks. Every other postseason game has been 30 points and under.

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That's what I'm banking on. A top 5-10 defense. If that can happen this year, with fans back in the stands, very excited about the upcoming season.

Derrick Henry? I wish.

Post season Wilson? Shoot, rather have 2005 post-season Hass at this point. Until proven otherwise, that is.

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Point of note very few QBs regular season stats and post season stats are close to the same. Even the supposed Goat Brady has a 7+ point drop in Qb rating in the post season. Mahomes has an 8+ point drop. Rodgers a 4 point, So you know Wilson is just 6 points.


As to Hasselbeck lets look at that , ahh his regular season and playoff Qb ratrings are both sub 85., HIs the best Playoff Qb rating was 101 and his 2005 Qb rating was 89 and his worst was 67. To compare Wilsons worse Qb rating in the playoffs was 72, his best 107 (2019 season) his avg 96. He has only been below 90 2 times out of his 8 playoff years. Hass has been below 90 4 of his 6 times in the playoffs.

So, once again the Facts show the whole premise is wrong.

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I don't know. You can use numbers to make any argument. I just remember Hass was called "Mr. December" for a reason. He was very good toward the end of the season when it mattered. Russ is like "Mr. September" Still waiting for him to put together a complete season.

Maelstrom787":3azhvv07 said:

John63":3azhvv07 said:

hoxrox":3azhvv07 said:

NINEster":3azhvv07 said:

It's on Carroll/Schneider to rebuild the defense and find a way to get a top flight running game.

It doesn't need to be #1 in points allowed in defense but something maybe top 5-10.

Might need a top 3 RB. A Derrick Henry would keep me up at night.

But as mentioned before, postseason Wilson is not quite the same as peak regular season Wilson.

Only 2015 Carolina and 2016 Atlanta scored more than 30 points against the Seahawks. Every other postseason game has been 30 points and under.

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That's what I'm banking on. A top 5-10 defense. If that can happen this year, with fans back in the stands, very excited about the upcoming season.

Derrick Henry? I wish.

Post season Wilson? Shoot, rather have 2005 post-season Hass at this point. Until proven otherwise, that is.

Click to expand...

Point of note very few QBs regular season stats and post season stats are close to the same. Even the supposed Goat Brady has a 7+ point drop in Qb rating in the post season. Mahomes has an 8+ point drop. Rodgers a 4 point, So you know Wilson is just 6 points.


As to Hasselbeck lets look at that , ahh his regular season and playoff Qb ratrings are both sub 85., HIs the best Playoff Qb rating was 101 and his 2005 Qb rating was 89 and his worst was 67. To compare Wilsons worse Qb rating in the playoffs was 72, his best 107 (2019 season) his avg 96. He has only been below 90 2 times out of his 8 playoff years. Hass has been below 90 4 of his 6 times in the playoffs.

So, once again the Facts show the whole premise is wrong.

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QBR only goes up to 100. Do you mean passer rating?

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That rule doesn't apply to our Russ.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

hoxrox":14hbn2s9 said:

John63":14hbn2s9 said:

hoxrox":14hbn2s9 said:

NINEster":14hbn2s9 said:

It's on Carroll/Schneider to rebuild the defense and find a way to get a top flight running game.

It doesn't need to be #1 in points allowed in defense but something maybe top 5-10.

Might need a top 3 RB. A Derrick Henry would keep me up at night.

But as mentioned before, postseason Wilson is not quite the same as peak regular season Wilson.

Only 2015 Carolina and 2016 Atlanta scored more than 30 points against the Seahawks. Every other postseason game has been 30 points and under.

Click to expand...

That's what I'm banking on. A top 5-10 defense. If that can happen this year, with fans back in the stands, very excited about the upcoming season.

Derrick Henry? I wish.

Post season Wilson? Shoot, rather have 2005 post-season Hass at this point. Until proven otherwise, that is.

Click to expand...

Point of note very few QBs regular season stats and post season stats are close to the same. Even the supposed Goat Brady has a 7+ point drop in Qb rating in the post season. Mahomes has an 8+ point drop. Rodgers a 4 point, So you know Wilson is just 6 points.


As to Hasselbeck lets look at that , ahh his regular season and playoff Qb ratrings are both sub 85., HIs the best Playoff Qb rating was 101 and his 2005 Qb rating was 89 and his worst was 67. To compare Wilsons worse Qb rating in the playoffs was 72, his best 107 (2019 season) his avg 96. He has only been below 90 2 times out of his 8 playoff years. Hass has been below 90 4 of his 6 times in the playoffs.

So, once again the Facts show the whole premise is wrong.

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I don't know. You can use numbers to make any argument. I just remember Hass was called "Mr. December" for a reason. He was very good toward the end of the season when it mattered. Russ is like "Mr. September" Still waiting for him to put together a complete season.

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Lol MR December well according to NFL.com out of 10 seasons with Seattle he had a QB rating above 90 3 times in Dec. Career In Seattle Dec Qb rating was 84.

To compare Wilson in his 9 years here has had a Dec Qb rating above 90 8 times. Carrer in Seattel Dec Qb rating 100.8

You see it's a fallacy that Wilson does not play well in Dec or late in year or Early or whatever. People always focus on the 3-4 bad games he has a year. Or they see a QB rating of 95 and say wow he regressed all because he had a 110 the game before. Guess what All QBs have 3-4 bad games. The problem is most teams can handle their QB have 3-4 bad games. We can't. Add to that, some here just hold him to an unrealistically higher standard than any other QB include the supposed goat.

John63":3t0tnar8 said:

I think Wilson does have something to prove. Do does PC and the whole team. For that matter every team does. This is a new season, everyone has something to prove.

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The problem is that every head coach that has had a quarterback that could sling it eventually let their quarterback sling it. Every head coach but PC.

Sac":3ggnw4z6 said:

John63":3ggnw4z6 said:

I think Wilson does have something to prove. Do does PC and the whole team. For that matter every team does. This is a new season, everyone has something to prove.

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The problem is that every head coach that has had a quarterback that could sling it eventually let their quarterback sling it. Every head coach but PC.

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Agreed.

Sac":ok51yxi4 said:

John63":ok51yxi4 said:

I think Wilson does have something to prove. Do does PC and the whole team. For that matter every team does. This is a new season, everyone has something to prove.

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The problem is that every head coach that has had a quarterback that could sling it eventually let their quarterback sling it. Every head coach but PC.

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"Sling it" doesn't necessarily equate to wins. Do you remember the 10 turnover over 4 game fiasco last season? Yeah that may have cost us the number one seed.

The issue with Pete is not that he didn't let Russ cook. That narrative is tired. The coaching issue was that he could not coach Russ out of his slump.

hoxrox":ty3heswc said:

Sac":ty3heswc said:

John63":ty3heswc said:

I think Wilson does have something to prove. Do does PC and the whole team. For that matter every team does. This is a new season, everyone has something to prove.

Click to expand...

The problem is that every head coach that has had a quarterback that could sling it eventually let their quarterback sling it. Every head coach but PC.

Click to expand...

"Sling it" doesn't necessarily equate to wins. Do you remember the 10 turnover over 4 game fiasco last season? Yeah that may have cost us the number one seed.

The issue with Pete is not that he didn't let Russ cook. That narrative is tired. The coaching issue was that he could not coach Russ out of his slump.

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Some baseball players can't hit a curve ball, Wilson could not beat two deep zone coverage last year.

I am not sure if it was Russell he has shown the ability to in the past with Bevell, scheme and OC may have been the issue. But forcing the ball was on Wilson.

hoxrox":3abnuu7f said:

Sac":3abnuu7f said:

John63":3abnuu7f said:

I think Wilson does have something to prove. Do does PC and the whole team. For that matter every team does. This is a new season, everyone has something to prove.

Click to expand...

The problem is that every head coach that has had a quarterback that could sling it eventually let their quarterback sling it. Every head coach but PC.

Click to expand...

"Sling it" doesn't necessarily equate to wins. Do you remember the 10 turnover over 4 game fiasco last season? Yeah that may have cost us the number one seed.

The issue with Pete is not that he didn't let Russ cook. That narrative is tired. The coaching issue was that he could not coach Russ out of his slump.

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Giving PC the benefit of the doubt some I am not sure it was he could not coach him out of it, I think he did not want to because it gave him the ability to pull in the reigns again. Also, point of note he never had 10 ints in any connected 4 games, the most was 7 and 3 of them went off receivers hands.

Tinamedina":1kf7evcz said:

what does pete carroll have to prove? that he can coach and strategize without being outsmarted. that he can have a winning season without russell wilson bailing him out in the 4th quarter. they wouldnt even win REGULAR season games without wilson, thats a fact. of course they cant go far in the playoffs, pete carroll is not a good coach.

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Sure the Patriots fired him and went on to a legendary run but Pete didn't have Brady on his roster.

Yes Pete cheated like hades at USC to insure that he had more highly talented players at every position than anyone else. As soon as that was jeopardized he left.

Pete posted back to back ho hum 7-9 records before Russell Wilson fell into his lap.

I'd say Pete probably has a whole lot left to prove to himself as a coach.

As far as Russ goes I don't understand all of the hate from you guys. All he asked for was to be upgraded to average pass protection. Pete cannot afford to blow his budget on pass protection if he's also going to out personel teams on defense.

chris98251":3hr5jfbk said:

hoxrox":3hr5jfbk said:

Sac":3hr5jfbk said:

John63":3hr5jfbk said:

I think Wilson does have something to prove. Do does PC and the whole team. For that matter every team does. This is a new season, everyone has something to prove.

Click to expand...

The problem is that every head coach that has had a quarterback that could sling it eventually let their quarterback sling it. Every head coach but PC.

Click to expand...

"Sling it" doesn't necessarily equate to wins. Do you remember the 10 turnover over 4 game fiasco last season? Yeah that may have cost us the number one seed.

The issue with Pete is not that he didn't let Russ cook. That narrative is tired. The coaching issue was that he could not coach Russ out of his slump.

Click to expand...

Some baseball players can't hit a curve ball, Wilson could not beat two deep zone coverage last year.

I am not sure if it was Russell he has shown the ability to in the past with Bevell, scheme and OC may have been the issue. But forcing the ball was on Wilson.

Click to expand...

Come on Chris, you know better to say negative things about Saint Russell the fairless.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

John63":18zwnoko said:

hoxrox":18zwnoko said:

Sac":18zwnoko said:

John63":18zwnoko said:

I think Wilson does have something to prove. Do does PC and the whole team. For that matter every team does. This is a new season, everyone has something to prove.

Click to expand...

The problem is that every head coach that has had a quarterback that could sling it eventually let their quarterback sling it. Every head coach but PC.

Click to expand...

"Sling it" doesn't necessarily equate to wins. Do you remember the 10 turnover over 4 game fiasco last season? Yeah that may have cost us the number one seed.

The issue with Pete is not that he didn't let Russ cook. That narrative is tired. The coaching issue was that he could not coach Russ out of his slump.

Click to expand...

Giving PC the benefit of the doubt some I am not sure it was he could not coach him out of it, I think he did not want to because it gave him the ability to pull in the reigns again. Also, point of note he never had 10 ints in any connected 4 games, the most was 7 and 3 of them went off receivers hands.

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Using your thought process..How many did Russ throw off DL and DB's hands?
During that stretch I know I saw a few..So he got lucky it wasn't more int and not
lucky maybe on those three..Was it high?Behind WR?Wrong spot?I dunno
but you might see where I'm going.

John63":yrlt6fr0 said:

hoxrox":yrlt6fr0 said:

Sac":yrlt6fr0 said:

John63":yrlt6fr0 said:

I think Wilson does have something to prove. Do does PC and the whole team. For that matter every team does. This is a new season, everyone has something to prove.

Click to expand...

The problem is that every head coach that has had a quarterback that could sling it eventually let their quarterback sling it. Every head coach but PC.

Click to expand...

"Sling it" doesn't necessarily equate to wins. Do you remember the 10 turnover over 4 game fiasco last season? Yeah that may have cost us the number one seed.

The issue with Pete is not that he didn't let Russ cook. That narrative is tired. The coaching issue was that he could not coach Russ out of his slump.

Click to expand...

Also, point of note he never had 10 ints in any connected 4 games, the most was 7 and 3 of them went off receivers hands.

Click to expand...

Remember when you used to say it was 5 blamed on receivers over the whole season?

And then I found video of each which showed only 2 even touched the hands of a receiver and 1 of those was a bad, high pass that Russ, at minimum, holds half of the blame for?

Here you go: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=172962&p=2531947#p2531947

pinksheets":2eg1snte said:

John63":2eg1snte said:

hoxrox":2eg1snte said:

Sac":2eg1snte said:

The problem is that every head coach that has had a quarterback that could sling it eventually let their quarterback sling it. Every head coach but PC.

Click to expand...

"Sling it" doesn't necessarily equate to wins. Do you remember the 10 turnover over 4 game fiasco last season? Yeah that may have cost us the number one seed.

The issue with Pete is not that he didn't let Russ cook. That narrative is tired. The coaching issue was that he could not coach Russ out of his slump.

Click to expand...

Also, point of note he never had 10 ints in any connected 4 games, the most was 7 and 3 of them went off receivers hands.

Click to expand...

Remember when you used to say it was 5 blamed on receivers over the whole season?

And then I found video of each which showed only 2 even touched the hands of a receiver and 1 of those was a bad, high pass that Russ, at minimum, holds half of the blame for?

Here you go: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=172962&p=2531947#p2531947

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Well then you looked at the wrong video as I saw one were it was 5, but they were not all during that stretch.

John63":24jh6ki1 said:

pinksheets":24jh6ki1 said:

John63":24jh6ki1 said:

hoxrox":24jh6ki1 said:

"Sling it" doesn't necessarily equate to wins. Do you remember the 10 turnover over 4 game fiasco last season? Yeah that may have cost us the number one seed.

The issue with Pete is not that he didn't let Russ cook. That narrative is tired. The coaching issue was that he could not coach Russ out of his slump.

Click to expand...

Also, point of note he never had 10 ints in any connected 4 games, the most was 7 and 3 of them went off receivers hands.

Click to expand...

Remember when you used to say it was 5 blamed on receivers over the whole season?

And then I found video of each which showed only 2 even touched the hands of a receiver and 1 of those was a bad, high pass that Russ, at minimum, holds half of the blame for?

Here you go: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=172962&p=2531947#p2531947

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Well then you looked at the wrong video as I saw one were it was 5, but they were not all during that stretch.

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So you're not referring to last season?

Go to the linked post. The video is there. 2 all season touched receivers' hands and 1 was a bad, high pass where Russ is accountable.

pinksheets":rf47y3qi said:

John63":rf47y3qi said:

pinksheets":rf47y3qi said:

John63":rf47y3qi said:

Also, point of note he never had 10 ints in any connected 4 games, the most was 7 and 3 of them went off receivers hands.

Click to expand...

Remember when you used to say it was 5 blamed on receivers over the whole season?

And then I found video of each which showed only 2 even touched the hands of a receiver and 1 of those was a bad, high pass that Russ, at minimum, holds half of the blame for?

Here you go: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=172962&p=2531947#p2531947

Click to expand...

Well then you looked at the wrong video as I saw one were it was 5, but they were not all during that stretch.

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So you're not referring to last season?

Go to the linked post. The video is there. 2 all season touched receivers' hands and 1 was a bad, high pass where Russ is accountable.

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the one I am referring to is on ESPN paid. IT showed all of them with "expert" saying if it should have been caught or not. For example the first one you say is high and it was but it should have been caught. Also, the ESPN paid site video had different angles than the one you shared. I suspect the difference is if you think a Pro football player should have caught that pass or not, or if you only count perfect passes. Some on this board think that if it is not perfect it should not be caught, others understand not all passes are perfect and there is a should have been caught scenario. Interestingly that same perfect pass group does not apply the same measure for other qbs only Wilson. I don't look for perfect I look for should have been. I guess since i have played, coached or ref Football for over 50 years I have a different perspective.

all that said even without the 5 ints we disagree on Wilson did throw some head scratcher ints. That said he also made alot of throws very few other QBs could make. I guess I choose not to nit pick or only focus on the bad liek some here.

You know it is funny when i was lurking deciding if I wanted to join this forum I did not intend to be a Wilson.. defender of sorts. But there was such a large number of Wilson haters, it was human nature. I mean if a guy throws 5 td, over 300 yards, comp 80% of his passes and a Qb rating of over 140 how in the hell can you say he played like crap because he missed 1 pass. Yet some here did just that.

Oh well went on a rant sorry

hoxrox":1gjwafth said:

"Sling it" doesn't necessarily equate to wins. Do you remember the 10 turnover over 4 game fiasco last season? Yeah that may have cost us the number one seed.

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Hoxrox is discussing total turnovers here; specifically the four game stretch from week 6-9 where Russ had 7 interceptions and 3 fumbles in three games that all ended up in the lost column. His TD to turnover ratio was 800% better in our 12 wins (4.5 TDs per turnover) then it was in our four losses (0.5 TDs per turnover).

This isn't an issue of playing the blame game but rather highlighting that ball security remains extremely important in the NFL.

John63":1e93u3n2 said:

UK_Seahawk":1e93u3n2 said:

John63":1e93u3n2 said:

UK_Seahawk":1e93u3n2 said:

The guy who had it good but wanted it better and made it worse.

Thats a decent take to be fair.

Ultimately I think it comes down to $600k versus $35m.

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Maybe but on paper we are better, so is it really fair? Moe like the guy who had it good, and wanted it better gave the media something they could twist to get their clicks with. Also, there are people out there saying the exact opposite, that what Wilson did forced PC to rethink things for the better. Media 101 find something to latch on to, warp it, and take both extremes to get clicks.

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I'm not just talking about his and the teams play. I feel like he's almost trying too hard to become something I'm not sure he is. To me he wants to be a celeb who plays football whereas before he was a footballer who almost accidentally became famous.

Maybe that was always part of the plan?

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Maybe but I don't see a celeb who wants to play football working as hard as Wilson does. I mean when Look online about Rodgers, Brady, Brees before he retied or most of the top QBs they all have a huge non football presence. So its not like Wilson is the only one. I just think in the day of social media, and paparazzi we hear about it more. I mean Joe Namath back in the day was more of a celeb than any of the QBs now with is fur coat, and parting. I dont think it's any of them wanting to be a celeb who plays football its just more media access, paparazzi, people always taking videos of athlete etc etc.

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Yep, Wilson isn't an introverted guy that sits on his a$$, he's Pro-active, has the smarts, & is making money while he has draw.
He seems to me to be the kind of guy that can & does make a lot of endorsement money, Why wouldn't he?, only a fool would leave money on the table.

The league is full of guys who are making extra coin on endorsements, other endeavors etc. More power to these guys. Lord Brady and Erin Rodgers are doing the same exact thing. Plenty of extra things on the side. Big deal, go get it while you can. It does NOT mean they are not concentrating on football.