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Let’s talk about the “extra step” Tyler Lockett mentioned

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  • Pretty good explanation and presentation of the concept.
    sutz
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  • Love it! Its just said it took until 2021 for the Hawks to get to this idea. I think the Seahawks have the right WRs for this and I am sure Eskridge was drafted because he can pull this system off.
    Spohawks
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  • Translation: the receivers will be more open this season.

    So now it will depend on pass pro, and a high level of efficiency from the QB.
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  • It also takes Wilson forgoing the long ball option to take the short routes, which is something that is difficult to sell when Wilson backs his ability to throw the long ball and knows he's made a name for himself in the league with the long ball.

    There have been plenty of times when a sack happened after a short route was open, and Wilson decided to extend the play so he could go for the home run.

    Wilson hasn't been about hitting guys and letting them pile up YAC. He's been all about the moon ball and air yards. It will be interesting to see if Waldron can rein him in and get him to trust his receivers to do the work.
    KiwiHawk
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  • Regarding Russ embracing the timing and shorter routes vs playing for the home run ball, I am going trust that he's smart enough to understand this is how he's going to achieve the goals he talks about of "best ever, winning, not being hit as much". Russ should know as much as anyone what the results were last year down the stretch and and the playoff game.

    I like to think he's going to embrace this change.
    HawkRiderFan
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  • HawkRiderFan wrote:Regarding Russ embracing the timing and shorter routes vs playing for the home run ball, I am going trust that he's smart enough to understand this is how he's going to achieve the goals he talks about of "best ever, winning, not being hit as much". Russ should know as much as anyone what the results were last year down the stretch and and the playoff game.

    I like to think he's going to embrace this change.


    The only thing that gives me pause about this stance is that two or three days after Waldron was hired (you know that by then he and Russell had been in plenty of conversations about the offense, Chris Simms and Colin Cowherd ran with the story that Russell Wilson's Camp were saying that Wilson had zero confidence in the Seahawks coaching staff.

    I do not put much stock in either "reporter" but the fact that they would even go there means that there was smoke. It may be that Wilson has warmed to the ideas of getting the ball out quicker in more difficult throws for him, but he may not have reacted well to being told about the things struggled with last year and the new offense that will feature those things.
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  • Considering the Russ stories broke around and after Super Bowl, I think that stuff really was a result of seeing Brady get what he wanted in Tampa and it working out.

    Back to the topic at hand, it gives receivers an advantage if they can react to how a back is playing them vs a strict pattern. Of course it mean Russ and the receivers absolutely will have to be on the same page to make those work
    HawkRiderFan
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  • It's taking it back to the basics..how we all grew up playing football. I never quite understood the thinking behind some of the routes our receivers would run when it was 3rd & short with a whole half a quarter of play left in the 2nd. Our last 2 OC's were some of the smartest DUMB DUMBS on earth at times. Just get the 1st down and keep it moving.
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  • I think this new adaptation will favor Russell. He is top notch with the scramble drill. In a scramble drill it is not about being at a mark but being open. I think this will be a much b better way to approach things. The goal is to get open not stick to a exact play with exact dimensions. The only drawback to this is the relationship between QB and receiver is even more vital. It is a good thing our unit is tight knit and not new to each other.
    Last edited by Year of The Hawk on Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    Year of The Hawk
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  • If Jared Goff could figure this system out, I have no doubt that Wilson can.

    And it doesn't mean a ton of short passes. Most of the routes in this system are intermediate between the LB's and deep safety. Lots of 15 yard stuff.

    I think waldron's system is going to be awesome for the offense. I'm just worried about gameday play calling as that's not been on his job sheet ever. it's one thing to develop a system and quite another to call the right plays on game day when the defense has scouted you and may have figured out some of your tendencies.

    But I'm hopeful he's as good as everyone is saying so far. Fingers crossed.
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  • KiwiHawk wrote:It also takes Wilson forgoing the long ball option to take the short routes, which is something that is difficult to sell when Wilson backs his ability to throw the long ball and knows he's made a name for himself in the league with the long ball.

    There have been plenty of times when a sack happened after a short route was open, and Wilson decided to extend the play so he could go for the home run.

    Wilson hasn't been about hitting guys and letting them pile up YAC. He's been all about the moon ball and air yards. It will be interesting to see if Waldron can rein him in and get him to trust his receivers to do the work.



    Once again, Pete Carroll calls plays in a way that requires Wilson to hold on to the ball. Run run pass...run run "big play". It's okay to give pete Carroll some accountability people. But heres what's gonna happen, now that Wilson wont be airing it out as much, people will now claim Wilson has lost it and hes not as good as he used to be.


    Just watch.
    Tinamedina
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  • Tinamedina wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:It also takes Wilson forgoing the long ball option to take the short routes, which is something that is difficult to sell when Wilson backs his ability to throw the long ball and knows he's made a name for himself in the league with the long ball.

    There have been plenty of times when a sack happened after a short route was open, and Wilson decided to extend the play so he could go for the home run.

    Wilson hasn't been about hitting guys and letting them pile up YAC. He's been all about the moon ball and air yards. It will be interesting to see if Waldron can rein him in and get him to trust his receivers to do the work.



    Once again, Pete Carroll calls plays in a way that requires Wilson to hold on to the ball. Run run pass...run run "big play". It's okay to give pete Carroll some accountability people. But heres what's gonna happen, now that Wilson wont be airing it out as much, people will now claim Wilson has lost it and hes not as good as he used to be.


    Just watch.


    Please stop spreading misinformation. Pete Carroll does not call plays. Pete Carroll has not called plays. Pete Carroll will not call plays. Carroll has interjected on the headsets when he disagrees with a play call in the past. The only reason we know that for a fact is that he admits as much in his post game press conferences when it does not work out. He has never once taken credit for his interjections being right when we pull off a big play or touchdown.
    BASF
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  • BASF wrote:
    Tinamedina wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:It also takes Wilson forgoing the long ball option to take the short routes, which is something that is difficult to sell when Wilson backs his ability to throw the long ball and knows he's made a name for himself in the league with the long ball.

    There have been plenty of times when a sack happened after a short route was open, and Wilson decided to extend the play so he could go for the home run.

    Wilson hasn't been about hitting guys and letting them pile up YAC. He's been all about the moon ball and air yards. It will be interesting to see if Waldron can rein him in and get him to trust his receivers to do the work.



    Once again, Pete Carroll calls plays in a way that requires Wilson to hold on to the ball. Run run pass...run run "big play". It's okay to give pete Carroll some accountability people. But heres what's gonna happen, now that Wilson wont be airing it out as much, people will now claim Wilson has lost it and hes not as good as he used to be.


    Just watch.


    Please stop spreading misinformation. Pete Carroll does not call plays. Pete Carroll has not called plays. Pete Carroll will not call plays. Carroll has interjected on the headsets when he disagrees with a play call in the past. The only reason we know that for a fact is that he admits as much in his post game press conferences when it does not work out. He has never once taken credit for his interjections being right when we pull off a big play or touchdown.


    Yes he has sorta, Wilson had a play he wanted to run and had to get permission from Pete, Pete gave his approval and they ran the play. He has that much influence.
    chris98251
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    BASF wrote:
    Tinamedina wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:It also takes Wilson forgoing the long ball option to take the short routes, which is something that is difficult to sell when Wilson backs his ability to throw the long ball and knows he's made a name for himself in the league with the long ball.

    There have been plenty of times when a sack happened after a short route was open, and Wilson decided to extend the play so he could go for the home run.

    Wilson hasn't been about hitting guys and letting them pile up YAC. He's been all about the moon ball and air yards. It will be interesting to see if Waldron can rein him in and get him to trust his receivers to do the work.



    Once again, Pete Carroll calls plays in a way that requires Wilson to hold on to the ball. Run run pass...run run "big play". It's okay to give pete Carroll some accountability people. But heres what's gonna happen, now that Wilson wont be airing it out as much, people will now claim Wilson has lost it and hes not as good as he used to be.


    Just watch.


    Please stop spreading misinformation. Pete Carroll does not call plays. Pete Carroll has not called plays. Pete Carroll will not call plays. Carroll has interjected on the headsets when he disagrees with a play call in the past. The only reason we know that for a fact is that he admits as much in his post game press conferences when it does not work out. He has never once taken credit for his interjections being right when we pull off a big play or touchdown.


    Yes he has sorta, Wilson had a play he wanted to run and had to get permission from Pete, Pete gave his approval and they ran the play. He has that much influence.


    That's proper supervision arriving at a consciences ...... not play calling. Pete Carroll is excellent at delegating play calling to others.

    Returning to the topic of what receivers can do. The essence of the article is in this quote ..............
    BASED OFF OF THE LEVERAGE OF THE DEFENDER

    This is the key for understand Lockett’s meaning. Specifically, the purpose of a route is to allow a receiver to get open in order to allow the quarterback to throw them the ball. Thus, the “how to add an extra step, how not to add an extra step” simply means running the route in the way that is going to allow the receiver to likely be most open. This is dictated not by the specific depth of the route or the precision with which the route is run, but rather by determining whether to take an extra step or to cut a route short based on what that will do to the defender.

    ......................... The foundation of any athlete starts with the feet. I would think receivers with quick feet will thrive with this revised emphasis.
    Jville
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    BASF wrote:
    Tinamedina wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:It also takes Wilson forgoing the long ball option to take the short routes, which is something that is difficult to sell when Wilson backs his ability to throw the long ball and knows he's made a name for himself in the league with the long ball.

    There have been plenty of times when a sack happened after a short route was open, and Wilson decided to extend the play so he could go for the home run.

    Wilson hasn't been about hitting guys and letting them pile up YAC. He's been all about the moon ball and air yards. It will be interesting to see if Waldron can rein him in and get him to trust his receivers to do the work.



    Once again, Pete Carroll calls plays in a way that requires Wilson to hold on to the ball. Run run pass...run run "big play". It's okay to give pete Carroll some accountability people. But heres what's gonna happen, now that Wilson wont be airing it out as much, people will now claim Wilson has lost it and hes not as good as he used to be.


    Just watch.


    Please stop spreading misinformation. Pete Carroll does not call plays. Pete Carroll has not called plays. Pete Carroll will not call plays. Carroll has interjected on the headsets when he disagrees with a play call in the past. The only reason we know that for a fact is that he admits as much in his post game press conferences when it does not work out. He has never once taken credit for his interjections being right when we pull off a big play or touchdown.


    Yes he has sorta, Wilson had a play he wanted to run and had to get permission from Pete, Pete gave his approval and they ran the play. He has that much influence.


    Of course, hes the head coach AND VP of football operations, and theres people who think pete Carroll doesn't call plays?

    Wow.
    Tinamedina
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  • Jville wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    BASF wrote:
    Tinamedina wrote:

    Once again, Pete Carroll calls plays in a way that requires Wilson to hold on to the ball. Run run pass...run run "big play". It's okay to give pete Carroll some accountability people. But heres what's gonna happen, now that Wilson wont be airing it out as much, people will now claim Wilson has lost it and hes not as good as he used to be.


    Just watch.


    Please stop spreading misinformation. Pete Carroll does not call plays. Pete Carroll has not called plays. Pete Carroll will not call plays. Carroll has interjected on the headsets when he disagrees with a play call in the past. The only reason we know that for a fact is that he admits as much in his post game press conferences when it does not work out. He has never once taken credit for his interjections being right when we pull off a big play or touchdown.


    Yes he has sorta, Wilson had a play he wanted to run and had to get permission from Pete, Pete gave his approval and they ran the play. He has that much influence.


    That's proper supervision arriving at a consciences ...... not play calling. Pete Carroll is excellent at delegating play calling to others.

    Returning to the topic of what receivers can do. The essence of the article is in this quote ..............
    BASED OFF OF THE LEVERAGE OF THE DEFENDER

    This is the key for understand Lockett’s meaning. Specifically, the purpose of a route is to allow a receiver to get open in order to allow the quarterback to throw them the ball. Thus, the “how to add an extra step, how not to add an extra step” simply means running the route in the way that is going to allow the receiver to likely be most open. This is dictated not by the specific depth of the route or the precision with which the route is run, but rather by determining whether to take an extra step or to cut a route short based on what that will do to the defender.

    ......................... The foundation of any athlete starts with the feet. I would think receivers with quick feet will thrive with this revised emphasis.


    Pete Carroll isn't good at that either. The countless bad calls by Carroll it's amazing that yall even see him as a hall of fame coach.
    Tinamedina
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  • Tinamedina wrote:
    Of course, hes the head coach AND VP of football operations, and theres people who think pete Carroll doesn't call plays?

    Wow.


    Have you ever seen Pete with a play card in his hand on game days? Like ever? If so, post a pic.

    Likewise have you seen Holmgren with a play card in his hand on game days?

    So what does this mean? It should be easy to figure out. Pete doesn't call plays. Holmgren did.
    hoxrox
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  • Based on the flexibility described in the article, I think it will benefit Wilson.

    Other than timing routes in the end zone, Russ likes to see his receivers open before he throws the ball. Peyton Manning would have the ball in the air before his receiver even came out of his break, but Russ has never had that same level of trust. Conversely, Russ trusts his receivers in a jump ball situation downfield, whereas Manning would probably opt for the outlet. Different styles, different personnel.

    I am a little worried that Russ will wind up "staring down" receivers more because he has to read how they're running their routes, but I can't say he doesn't do that a bit already.

    Biggest thing for me is that I think we'll wear defenses out with a relentless jab approach this year. Last year I think defenses were sitting on the deep ball waiting for us to waste a play, so they could force a punt by playing hard for two downs instead of three and stay fresh. This system implies there will be no plays the defense can take off: If you don't press for PBUs or Zero YAC, we'll march it down your throat.
    Own The West
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  • hoxrox wrote:
    Tinamedina wrote:
    Of course, hes the head coach AND VP of football operations, and theres people who think pete Carroll doesn't call plays?

    Wow.


    Have you ever seen Pete with a play card in his hand on game days? Like ever? If so, post a pic.

    Likewise have you seen Holmgren with a play card in his hand on game days?

    So what does this mean? It should be easy to figure out. Pete doesn't call plays. Holmgren did.



    Not hard, Run, Bubble, End zone pass.

    He doesn't need a card to remember that.
    chris98251
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  • The problem with freedom for receivers to run impromptu routes is that it eliminates timing routes and relies on QB ability to accurately read what he thinks the receiver will do. That opens the door to pic opps. The good news is scramble plays are one of Russ's biggest strengths.
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