We're sorry, Tical. You were right, please forgive us, Tical

My god, are you that attention starved?

SoulfishHawk":1di9u81l said:

My god, are you that attention starved?

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Rich, coming from one of the biggest offenders.

Not even close, but rock on. I hardly ever come on here these days.

Throwdown":2dhnuav4 said:

3 OC’s, same issues, only constant is the QB.

It’s been back for nearly a year now going back to last season. Russ either can’t or simply won’t evolve his game to attack how they’re playing him and he needs to leave.

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Wrong.

Pete Carroll and poor offensive line's for 10+ years have been a constant also!

In 2013 we had the highest paid Oline in the league, and were ranked #31 of 32 teams in pass blocking.
That would be hard to do if you tried!!.....explain that??

Pete wants to run first, always has, and we are still toward the bottom of the league in rushing. That puts us in 3rd and long and exaggerates the problems. How many QB's could function with such ridiculously poor support year after year??

Russ no doubt has issues right now, but I blame Pete for them not Russ.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-10-offensive-line-rankings-2021

23. SEATTLE SEAHAWKS (Down 5)
Best-graded: T Duane Brown | 70.3
Worst-graded: C Kyle Fuller | 51.3

Seattle’s line never looked good with Russell Wilson at quarterback, but with him now out, it's clear how much he helped the unit despite holding onto the ball. With Geno Smith at quarterback, the group’s weaknesses are on obvious display, and five different linemen have surrendered at least 10 total pressures this season. Perhaps most concerning for the Seahawks is that Duane Brown may be finally slowing down. He's earned a 70.3 overall PFF grade, the lowest mark since his rookie season as he plays his age-36 season

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This ^^^^^

Simply a lazy take. We are near the top of the league in neutral score early down pass rate. Not the bottom. We aren't run first anymore. And weren't last year either.

Pete built a team and system around Russell's strengths and tried to hide his weaknesses. Now that those weaknesses are apparent for everyone to see in plain view, your real take is....get this ....."I don't blame Russ for those.....I blame Pete.". That's what you're going with? In spite of all the film that we have. That's what you're going with. Final answer?

So you're gonna' just ignore the FACT that Russ has saved Pete's a** for years by pulling out wins in the 4th quarter and OT? You think they actually went 12-4 last year because of Pete? No, they didn't at all.

Tical21":36rf32rq said:

We're sorry Tical. You were right, Tical.

It's not like I'm not rooting for Russell. I just think paying him (twice) was a huge mistake. We've gotten progressively worse and worse since he got paid.

Dude can't execute basic concepts against basic defenses. He just can't. He never has. He always had the legs as his equalizer. It didn't matter if he couldn't execute against cover-2, because he could always just extend the play until someone got open. And y'all were like "look at his passer rating against zone". Ignorant. Now he can't. So we're in the situation I told you all for years was coming. We have a QB that can no longer rely on his legs, and his success now is determined by how well he can anticipate and execute from the pocket. Unfortunately, that part of his game just never developed. Luckily, he still has some trade value, but it is diminishing rapidly.

At least answer me this ... I've told you for years that he can't execute basic concepts against zone defenses. Do you believe me now?

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There have been hints over the years that substantiated to me what Tical has been saying:

1) Significant drop off in passing performance late in the year (year 1 till present), when defenses can adjust and adjust, and then in the postseason when they're in top form.
2) Doesn't kill defenses from the pocket if he can hold onto the ball with good protection (*in the pocket*) - I still remember one play in his last SB where he had an eternity against the Patriots defense and just couldn't complete the ball.
3) Overall production from 2012-2018 was significantly shot play/deep ball/scramble drill based. Has improved overall production from 2019+ in the more standard passing game concepts. This is when I've acknowledged that Wilson finally is a very good QB.
4) Rams under Fisher had his number almost as bad as LOB had Kap's number. Meanwhile many other teams would move the ball against the Rams with a lot more ease. Once Wilson became a better QB, they no longer could suffocate him like they used to.
5) A sustained pass rush is more effective against him than undisciplined rushes that come in fast (opposite of what works against most QBs). If he cannot escape the pocket, that's a victory like getting in Brady's face every play. Can't see over the pocket? Can't find the open receivers? Whatever it is, it's a formula that tends to work if the ball isn't designed to go 60 yards downfield.

Wilson to me is as if you took Aaron Rodgers, made his deep ball a little better, improved his scrambling ability even more, made him more resilient to adversity, then took away the rest of the skillsets 30-50% across the board. Rodgers has zero weaknesses to his game physically, just mentally.

I really really really think the Seahawk coaching has been underrated with regards to him (opposite of what most on here tend to think). He very easily could have had a Kaepernick style short career (who was very unfortunate himself with how he was handled in SF), but instead benefitted from a team that went all in on him like the Ravens do right now with Lamar (plus the #1 defense for 5? seasons, and strong RB for almost that long too). The amount of winning he does with the huge # of 3 and outs, punts per drive, etc. is remarkable.

He outlasted my prediction on how long he could be sustainable at a high level, but I was correct in knowing his chances of sniffing a super bowl were over as soon as he became the face of the franchise built the way they were built, making the money he was making.

Don't get mad at me, he'll look great this weekend like it's 2019.

SoulfishHawk":1p1eidiq said:

So you're gonna' just ignore the FACT that Russ has saved Pete's a** for years by pulling out wins in the 4th quarter and OT? You think they actually went 12-4 last year because of Pete? No, they didn't at all.

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I would argue that they went 12-4 because they were a good football team and both Russ and Carroll had something to do with that..

But If yeah want to get technical about it, yeah I would argue that Pete had a lot to do with it because he pulled Russ back when Russ was throwing into double coverage trying to make the Big play instead of taking the check down.. this was a consistent theme last year... Carroll went back to running the ball and that's when they started winning again.

Not sure how you got sucked into disliking Pete you used to like him... I'm telling ya Pete isn't perfect but he Is not as bad as some people make him out to be.. and it makes me sad that some of the fan base blames Carroll for EVERYTHING... It really just depends on what stance the media takes to what fans think. very few think for them selves and very few in the media have good in sight into what's really happening...

Not saying that I know everything cause I don't but i know enough to know this ^^^^


LTH

All a matter of opinion. And that's fine.

SoulfishHawk":178yyyiu said:

All a matter of opinion. And that's fine.

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A lot of people think I just like Carroll no matter what he does but that's not true. I have criticism of Carroll and one of them is I don't think they put enough draft capitol into O line... I think although Carson is a good back but can't stay healthy, Penny so far has not worked out cause he can't stay healthy. they don't have that big bruising back like Marshawn to get those tough 3rd down conversions... So it's not like I don't have criticism of Carroll.. but I just don't think that most of the stuff your reading on this board is legit. I think its somewhere in the middle



LTH

Tical21":22vxhkn0 said:

Simply a lazy take......

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Nope. 100% logical take.....period.

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/6/29/...-season-record-houston-texans-poor-poor-david

But....but....why are you not apologizing to Tical? I mean, that's really what he seeks.

I mean you guys were right all along. Russell is great against 2-deep. He definitely doesn't need the running game. All we need to do is get some receivers and pass more and we'll be better than ever.

Greg Olsen blames Carroll @13:15:

[youtube]b68zz2Hx9No[/youtube]

DK blames Carroll
[tweet]https://twitter.com/MikeDugar/status/1353854771338219520[/tweet]
Tical21 blames Wilson

Tical21":2kofaxjz said:

Took a lot of crap from a lot of people on here for a lotta years. Bit my lip knowing eventually everything I've been saying for years would be apparent to everyone. DO YOU HEAR ME NOW!!>!>!>

#3 never mastered the mental part of playing quarterback, which was always going to be needed when his legs couldn't create magic anymore. Now his ego prevents us from running, which ironically is the one thing that would help him most.

We've been seeing 2-deep almost exclusively for a year now. And have we executed even simple cover-2 concepts? At all? Hmmmm, why not? 3 coordinators now. Same results..

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hmmm who is right, guys, Tical21 or two pro football players who played alongside Wilson under Carroll?

You guys sure seem confident now that he's playing through a bad injury on his throwing hand, still in a 1980 offense, and behind terrible OL play.

Russ was damn good today. He's so great when he gets coverages he is comfortable with. Thank you Raheem!

Russ was decisive, accurate, and did it all while getting destroyed play after play. Wasn't holding the ball too long outside a few plays, only big miss was that DK pass when he beat Norman, and no matter what was being driven into the turf 2-3 seconds after hiking the ball. OL was pure garbage and Russ still had a very solid game.

Tical21":3p8ps2nv said:

Russ was damn good today. He's so great when he gets coverages he is comfortable with. Thank you Raheem!

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I thought Russell and Shane Waldron were more on the same page today, and Russell was making the effort to take the open layups and move the chains. Am I wrong to give Russell (and Waldron) that credit for making adjustments, and it was really just that the 49ers ran defensive coverages and concepts that Russell knew how to read? Blame Raheem instead of credit Russ? Somewhere in between?

olyfan63":2g5luitm said:

Tical21":2g5luitm said:

Russ was damn good today. He's so great when he gets coverages he is comfortable with. Thank you Raheem!

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I thought Russell and Shane Waldron were more on the same page today, and Russell was making the effort to take the open layups and move the chains. Am I wrong to give Russell (and Waldron) that credit for making adjustments, and it was really just that the 49ers ran defensive coverages and concepts that Russell knew how to read? Blame Raheem instead of credit Russ? Somewhere in between?

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Both. Russell was much better today. Especially with his accuracy. But you'll notice on the strip sack, the other really bad sack late, the 2 yard quick passes where Dissly got hit quickly, were all against 2-deep. The 49ers had success in 2-deep and Russ was noticeably uncomfortable against it, which you can even see in his presnap body language, but the 49ers major in single-high safety, so I knew going in that we were going to get quite a bit of it. And Russ was much more comfortable and feasted. I was wondering whether the niners were going to run a lot more 2-deep than usual because of Russ' troubles against it as of late, or whether they'd stick to their typical gameplan. In the end, they ran a little more 2-deep than usual, but not much.

Tical21":khbklu7x said:

Both. Russell was much better today. Especially with his accuracy. But you'll notice on the strip sack, the other really bad sack late, the 2 yard quick passes where Dissly got hit quickly, were all against 2-deep. The 49ers had success in 2-deep and Russ was noticeably uncomfortable against it, which you can even see in his presnap body language, but the 49ers major in single-high safety, so I knew going in that we were going to get quite a bit of it. And Russ was much more comfortable and feasted. I was wondering whether the niners were going to run a lot more 2-deep than usual because of Russ' troubles against it as of late, or whether they'd stick to their typical gameplan. In the end, they ran a little more 2-deep than usual, but not much.

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Interesting. I was watching on a small mobile device so couldn't really pick up what the D was doing, but definitely something to look for, Russell's pre-snap body language. I suppose it's a good thing, that at least he's recognizing what he's seeing enough to be uncomfortable; maybe that discomfort is Russell trying to focus on trying to read what's there and flash through the routes in his mind and where to go with the ball. He's faked it for so long, used his own set of "rules" to sidestep the "official" way of reading the D, that trying a different way has to still be awkward and stressful for him.

So we know the Rams will throw a lot of 2-high at him, and so also will the Cardinals. It seemed to me that the OT game vs. the Cardinals last year is when Russell's struggles with 2-High looks were fully exposed for all the world, OK, the NFL world, to see.

You were too early, before the world was ready to see it. Besides, this limitation doesn't usually fully appear until playoff games, where we face more talented and better-prepared defenses. Also, it took Kurt Warner showing it in Xs and Os videos of Russell's playoff game, to start to accurately understand the issue, at least for me.

Also, there was another helpful breakdown video, from 2019, not showing Russell's "weakness" or "issues", but showing how he and Tyler Lockett "read" each other, and showing how Russell reads the coverage on the receiver, rather than the defense as a whole, and in turn Lockett also reads the coverage, and freelances--er, adjusts his route to the coverage, and Russell knows exactly how Tyler will improvise, and puts the ball with accuracy where he knows Tyler will be, based on their shared scramble drill rules. To me, this showed why the Wilson-to-Lockett combination has been so *incredibly good*. It also showed why Wilson often holds the ball for 5 seconds and more, looking deep downfield, and so often has to run out of the pocket to buy more time.

The flipside however, was the realization that that Russell has been using this "read the coverage on the receiver" as a shortcut, a *crutch* to avoid having to learn and master the detailed rules and reads that are required against 2-Deep safeties types of coverages, and preferring to look first for deep throws while often not even looking at shorter routes that require getting the ball out quickly .

These understandings also explain a lot of other things, from the relationship between Carroll and Wilson, to Waldron dialing up plays that create open receivers that Russell seemingly repeatedly turns his nose up at. It's like Russell is essentially having to learn a foreign language, as a near-beginner. It also shows the need for the Seahawks to have a strong run game to support Russell, and an O-Line that excels in run-blocking, but has to be at least average, not awful, in pass-pro. It explains how Russell, behind a crap O-Line in 2013 with rookies Michael Bowie and Alvin Bailey, but with Lynch as a run threat, and with his peak mobility, and supported by a historic defense, was able to lead the Seahawks to 2 Super Bowls in a row, winning one. It even explains many aspects of "the pick" in SB49, that Russell just had to "trust the play" since he couldn't really read the D the Patriots were lining up in--not 2-Deep, but 2-Many bodies in a small space for Russell to read to know where to go with the ball.

It even possibly explains Richard Sherman's seeming disdain for Russell's skills. Sherman, as an avid student of game film, saw other QBs making reads against the Hawks defense, e.g., Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and knew Russell's skill set in reading defenses was so deficient as to be laughable in comparison to that level of QB skills. (Russell has other amazing superpowers) Sherman had long been annoyed, and probably loudly complained, that Russell wasn't expected/required to learn those reads. Thus, when Russell threw "the pick", Sherman could see it coming and was so disgusted, angered, and blamed Russell for not being able to read the defense and make a better decision with the ball. In Sherman's mind, he knew the D and the run game had carried Russell, erased his mistakes, and Russell and the coaching staff had let down him and the rest of the team through what Sherman viewed as a failure to prepare, and Russell being coddled. Sherman, being a bit of a narcissist, was beside-himself angry that Russell, and the coaching staff, had "thrown away" his, the team's, the defense's, the LOB's, rightful place in history as a defensive dynasty, all because Russell was allowed to be coddled. Hey, it's a theory, not saying it's right, just a theory to entertain.

So, what all this means, is that for the Seahawks to be a playoff threat again with Wilson, is that Russell needs to learn the reads needed to know where to go with the ball quickly, against a variety of defenses. His escapability alone is no longer sufficient. I'm pretty sure Russell knows this and is working his tail off on it.