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How much longer is the world gonna pretend Wilson is elite?

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  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:Russ' cap hit this year is about $26.3M, going up to $31M next year and topping out at $37M for 2023:
    https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-sea ... lson-9885/

    His cap hit makes up about 13.6 percent of SEA's 2019 cap:

    https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/seattle-seahawks/

    Bwags and Duane Brown are the only others with over a $10M cap hit. Most others are on rookie deals or short-term ones. We'll probably lose most to free agency.

    Those are sick numbers :pukeface:
    People want a great OL..Look at Dallas the best line in the NFL.
    They paid the best RB in the NFL.
    They paid a couple of guys on defense big money.
    They clearly cannot afford Cooper who is elite?Ha Ha
    They are having trouble figuring out how to pay DAK.
    The Cowboys record at best this year?8-8

    My point being you can try to fool yourself with the cap
    but you'll get holes.
    We can get this elite line and have nothing else.We
    can be 8-8 at best but yeah a John might be happy
    with an elite QB but no playoffs makes a me unhappy.
    IndyHawk
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  • Seymour wrote:What a pathetic thread. :pukeface:

    Show me any starting QB that succeeds with no pass protection. Maybe the OP would have prefered we get Luck or RG3 in 2012?


    Well said, Seymour.
    Vesuve
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  • Halea41 14 posts and show me something credible so far......
    chris98251
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  • How much longer is the world going to pretend that all posters are created equal?

    Now.....time to steal someone's popcorn.

    :snack:
    Seymour
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  • IndyHawk wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:Russ' cap hit this year is about $26.3M, going up to $31M next year and topping out at $37M for 2023:
    https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-sea ... lson-9885/

    His cap hit makes up about 13.6 percent of SEA's 2019 cap:

    https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/seattle-seahawks/

    Bwags and Duane Brown are the only others with over a $10M cap hit. Most others are on rookie deals or short-term ones. We'll probably lose most to free agency.

    Those are sick numbers :pukeface:
    People want a great OL..Look at Dallas the best line in the NFL.
    They paid the best RB in the NFL.
    They paid a couple of guys on defense big money.
    They clearly cannot afford Cooper who is elite?Ha Ha
    They are having trouble figuring out how to pay DAK.
    The Cowboys record at best this year?8-8

    My point being you can try to fool yourself with the cap
    but you'll get holes.
    We can get this elite line and have nothing else.We
    can be 8-8 at best but yeah a John might be happy
    with an elite QB but no playoffs makes a me unhappy.


    Ahh we have an elite Qb and the playoffs so slightly confused on your point
    John63
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  • Seymour wrote:How much longer is the world going to pretend that all posters are created equal?

    Now.....time to steal someone's popcorn.

    :snack:


    I think the OP is Tical in disguise lol
    John63
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  • Fade wrote:Russell Wilson's last 5 season's

    2015-2019

    79 Games | 50-28-1

    153 TDs
    42 INTs
    7.9 YPA
    102.6 Passer Rating (107.3 in 2019 alone)

    to go along with being a runner, 2087 rush yards, & 8 TDs

    PFF Offensive line rank in that span: (30, 32, 27, 19, 31)

    On a team that is built to run the ball, and play defense. Not built around him. Performing at this level you should be extremely impressed, because no one in the league is doing what Wilson is doing behind wretched offensive lines.


    Drew Brees

    72 Games | 45-27

    148 TDs
    43 INTs
    7.9 YPA

    106.4 Passer Rating

    PFF Offensive line rank: (13, 12, 9, 11, 4)

    On a team that is built around him, with a top playcaller, an elite offensive line, with weapons galore.


    What games have you been watching the last 5 years?



    But, but, but.....Tical has never seen so many excuses. Never mind your facts Fade.
    hawksfansinceday1
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  • Let's see:

    Missing 3 o-linemen
    Missing top 3 running backs, to the point that we had to sign our mediocre backup from 5 years ago.
    Top receiver is still injured, missing top TE, Josh Gordon got suspended. He's throwing meaningful targets to guys like Jacob Hollister, David Moore, and Malik Turner.
    Coach may or may not be senile.
    Defense is nonexistent

    Yeah that's gonna wear down any quarterback
    ducks41468
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  • John63 wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:Russ' cap hit this year is about $26.3M, going up to $31M next year and topping out at $37M for 2023:
    https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-sea ... lson-9885/

    His cap hit makes up about 13.6 percent of SEA's 2019 cap:

    https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/seattle-seahawks/

    Bwags and Duane Brown are the only others with over a $10M cap hit. Most others are on rookie deals or short-term ones. We'll probably lose most to free agency.

    Those are sick numbers :pukeface:
    People want a great OL..Look at Dallas the best line in the NFL.
    They paid the best RB in the NFL.
    They paid a couple of guys on defense big money.
    They clearly cannot afford Cooper who is elite?Ha Ha
    They are having trouble figuring out how to pay DAK.
    The Cowboys record at best this year?8-8

    My point being you can try to fool yourself with the cap
    but you'll get holes.
    We can get this elite line and have nothing else.We
    can be 8-8 at best but yeah a John might be happy
    with an elite QB but no playoffs makes a me unhappy
    .


    Ahh we have an elite Qb and the playoffs so slightly confused on your point

    Read again..This was for your dream OL scenerio
    IndyHawk
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  • IndyHawk wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:Russ' cap hit this year is about $26.3M, going up to $31M next year and topping out at $37M for 2023:
    https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-sea ... lson-9885/

    His cap hit makes up about 13.6 percent of SEA's 2019 cap:

    https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/seattle-seahawks/

    Bwags and Duane Brown are the only others with over a $10M cap hit. Most others are on rookie deals or short-term ones. We'll probably lose most to free agency.

    Those are sick numbers :pukeface:
    People want a great OL..Look at Dallas the best line in the NFL.
    They paid the best RB in the NFL.
    They paid a couple of guys on defense big money.
    They clearly cannot afford Cooper who is elite?Ha Ha
    They are having trouble figuring out how to pay DAK.
    The Cowboys record at best this year?8-8

    My point being you can try to fool yourself with the cap
    but you'll get holes.
    We can get this elite line and have nothing else.We
    can be 8-8 at best but yeah a John might be happy
    with an elite QB but no playoffs makes a me unhappy
    .


    Ahh we have an elite Qb and the playoffs so slightly confused on your point

    Read again..This was for your dream OL scenerio


    Still not sur eI follow, I never said we needed the best oline, just at least avg and we are not even close, add to that they have had over 8 years and are no lcoser than they were in 2011
    John63
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  • RCATES wrote:Russ had a great start. MVP first half of the season no doubt. If you’re being honest Russ has been pretty bad for good stretch now. Particularly awful 2 out of the last 3 games. My same complaint with Russ will always be the same. Lack of consistency. Elite Qb’s have moments when they aren’t their best and maybe look like a Top 10 Qb rather then a top 5. Russ goes to a bottom 5 level several games a season. He becomes almost unrecognizable. This is why I personally don’t consider him Elite. Go Hawks


    RW WAS one of the top 3, until he bulked up and lost that "spring in his step". He is not even the second best QB in the league anymore running the ball and dodging tacklers. He is probably 3rd or 4th most slippery this year. He is top 5-7 in the NFL for sure, that is the definition of elite.
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  • xray wrote:For 8 seasons Wilson has had OLs that couldn't pass protect . He has been sack pounded every season . Carroll is so " pound the rock " obsessed that he has basically left Wilson on an "island" to fend for himself ; because he could scramble . Wilson might not be an elite QB now ; but he sure could of been if not for the careless mismanagement of his talents by Carroll . Carroll has always treated Wilson as just another player . I personally am sick and tired of that gum smacking... hand clapping old man . He's wash up in my book .


    My thoughts on RW are nearly smack dab like yours. About PC, same.
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  • Halea41 wrote:It’s so frustrating to watch him play.


    Go back to your bridge, troll
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  • @Indy stop with the salary cap propoganda.

    I can't find it at the moment but someone had a tweet showing Wilson was the most valuable QB $$$ wise (as in bang for the buck) of all the QBs not on rookie contracts and it wasn't even close. Seattle also has the 8th most cap space going into next year. I played with the Salary Cap caculator and filled out Seattle's roster with their ERFA's, RFA's, a rookie class, and cutting some likely casualties, and they have about $65M+ to play with next off-season.

    FunFacts:
    Tom Brady has counted more against the salary cap over the last 5 years than Russell Wilson. The Patriots didn't have a problem building a line around him. And winning 2 Super Bowls in that time. 3 in the last 6. Their line sucks this year, and Brady is being called washed up, he isn't, he is just living a bit in Russell Wilson's world for a change.

    Drew Brees & Aaron Rodgers have one of the best O-Lines, and consistently has one of the best O-Lines in the NFL, and consistently they've had higher cap hits than Russell Wilson year in and year out.

    Wilson's Cap hit isn't the problem.

    It's been three things.

    1. They don't know how to build an O-Line. They had the highest paid O-Line in 2013 and ranked 32nd. They spent more draft capital at the O-Line position than any other team. It hasn't been a resource issue, it has been they don't know what they are doing issue.

    2. Taking Wilson's mobility for granted for years. They figure Wilson can just escape, so all they need to do is focus on run blocking.

    3. Tom Cable, which mostly ties back into reason #1, but here they are again in 2019 with the 31st best O-Line.


    79x!!!!!


    The summary of what the Seattle Seahawks have been for a long time.



    Merry Christmas everyone.
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  • [quote="Fade"]@Indy stop with the salary cap propoganda.
    :shock: :177692: :34853_doh:
    Too funny...
    I didn't start on the cap till it went there and then used the Cowboys.
    John:If your ok with just an average line.(My bad)
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  • IndyHawk wrote:
    Fade wrote:@Indy stop with the salary cap propoganda.
    :shock: :177692: :34853_doh:
    Too funny...
    I didn't start on the cap till it went there and then used the Cowboys.
    John:If your ok with just an average line.(My bad)



    At this point avg would be such an up grade I would take it.
    John63
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  • Russ is elite, there's really not doubt about that. The one area that i think he needs to be better to is changing the play at the line. I've never understood why he doesn't do this more often. He almost seems to ok with just going with things most of the time. I feel like you watch Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers and you see those guys change damn near every play.
    getnasty
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  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    Fade wrote:Russell Wilson's last 5 season's

    2015-2019

    79 Games | 50-28-1

    153 TDs
    42 INTs
    7.9 YPA
    102.6 Passer Rating (107.3 in 2019 alone)

    to go along with being a runner, 2087 rush yards, & 8 TDs

    PFF Offensive line rank in that span: (30, 32, 27, 19, 31)

    On a team that is built to run the ball, and play defense. Not built around him. Performing at this level you should be extremely impressed, because no one in the league is doing what Wilson is doing behind wretched offensive lines.


    Drew Brees

    72 Games | 45-27

    148 TDs
    43 INTs
    7.9 YPA

    106.4 Passer Rating

    PFF Offensive line rank: (13, 12, 9, 11, 4)

    On a team that is built around him, with a top playcaller, an elite offensive line, with weapons galore.


    What games have you been watching the last 5 years?



    But, but, but.....Tical has never seen so many excuses. Never mind your facts Fade.


    I look at these stats and say why change? Stats are just as good and win lose is better. You can say it makes a case that Russell is elite, you can also say it looks like Pete know what he's doing too.
    getnasty
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  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:Wilson is pretty damn good but the problems lie deeper than Wilson.

    Wilson masks the inabilities and deficiencies of incompetent coaching.

    How many times have we seen Wilson win games that he just makes magic happens?

    It shouldn’t come down to that.

    But Wilson saves Carroll from improving or making any adjustments.

    This season should prove that if you did not see it in previous years.


    This x's a bazillion.

    Russ is elite. He's a QB thats stuck and been handcuffed in a system that doesnt allow him to be his best self. The guy is still going to the HoF despite all of it too. Pete Carroll is the luckiest NFL coach in the world that he has Wilson because there arent many QB's that could survive, yet excel in his system. Its just a shame that we as fans may never get to see Russ play with a creative OC and an open offense to highlight his true talents.
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  • If Russ is Elite lets see if we get bounced again at Home and in the playoffs again...................Inb4 its the O-Line or the O-Cord yata yata yata. Elite QB's overcome and win. Look how many years Brady has won with no names at WR and RB.
    RCATES
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  • RCATES wrote:If Russ is Elite lets see if we get bounced again at Home and in the playoffs again...................Inb4 its the O-Line or the O-Cord yata yata yata. Elite QB's overcome and win. Look how many years Brady has won with no names at WR and RB.



    Brady and his top oline you mean? Also please tell me were Brady won in the playoffs with no names wr, and RBs. FYI Wilson has won in the playoffs too.

    FyI "elite QBs win" Wilson is the winningest QB in NFL history in his first 8 years, thanks now we know he is Elite.
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  • getnasty wrote:Russ is elite, there's really not doubt about that. The one area that i think he needs to be better to is changing the play at the line. I've never understood why he doesn't do this more often. He almost seems to ok with just going with things most of the time. I feel like you watch Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers and you see those guys change damn near every play.


    Hard to change the play when he gets under center with 5-7 seconds on the play clock.

    He seems to do just fine in hurry up when he is calling his own plays.
    Fade
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  • Fade wrote:
    getnasty wrote:Russ is elite, there's really not doubt about that. The one area that i think he needs to be better to is changing the play at the line. I've never understood why he doesn't do this more often. He almost seems to ok with just going with things most of the time. I feel like you watch Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers and you see those guys change damn near every play.


    Hard to change the play when he gets under center with 5-7 seconds on the play clock.

    He seems to do just fine in hurry up when he is calling his own plays.


    Probably my biggest pet peeve of our offensive scheme and playcalling, not enough tempo and pace.

    Russell is one of the biggest rhythm and tempo QB's in the league, yet Pete loves his slow plodding time clock sucking ball control offense.

    With how well Russell thrives and succeeds in 2 and 4 minute offenses, not sure why Pete and Schotty don't let him do that more often. Nothing drives me crazier then after we get a turnover or big momentum shifting type play and here comes two straight hand offs with the ball snapped with one second on the play clock.

    Like last week after we blocked the punt. Great time to get out of the huddle quickly and take a shot? Nope, two straight hand offs for losses.

    Dumb.
    Sgt. Largent
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    getnasty wrote:Russ is elite, there's really not doubt about that. The one area that i think he needs to be better to is changing the play at the line. I've never understood why he doesn't do this more often. He almost seems to ok with just going with things most of the time. I feel like you watch Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers and you see those guys change damn near every play.


    Hard to change the play when he gets under center with 5-7 seconds on the play clock.

    He seems to do just fine in hurry up when he is calling his own plays.


    Probably my biggest pet peeve of our offensive scheme and playcalling, not enough tempo and pace.

    Russell is one of the biggest rhythm and tempo QB's in the league, yet Pete loves his slow plodding time clock sucking ball control offense.

    With how well Russell thrives and succeeds in 2 and 4 minute offenses, not sure why Pete and Schotty don't let him do that more often. Nothing drives me crazier then after we get a turnover or big momentum shifting type play and here comes two straight hand offs with the ball snapped with one second on the play clock.

    Like last week after we blocked the punt. Great time to get out of the huddle quickly and take a shot? Nope, two straight hand offs for losses.

    Dumb.


    The first drive last week is a great example. They kept changing the Candace, they had layered routes, and we scored easily. After that, back to the old, run, run, every go long.
    John63
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  • Russell will never be elite to some because they are visually comparing him to Brees, Brady, etc. In reality they are comparing him to the offensive oriented system those quarterbacks are in.

    The real question is why after all these years will Pete not build this team around Russell? What the Seahawks could be if they built this team around Russell?

    To be fair or play devil's advocate--other than Pete enforcing his philosophy, does he see tendencies or deficiencies in Russell's game that make him hesitate to build around Russell? Are we not seeing what the coaches see or know about Russell's game? Yes we see Russell make the big splash plays but when was the last time we saw Russell take apart a defense with the surgical precision of Brees, Brady, etc.?
    thegameq
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  • thegameq wrote:Russell will never be elite to some because they are visually comparing him to Brees, Brady, etc. In reality they are comparing him to the offensive oriented system those quarterbacks are in.

    The real question is why after all these years will Pete not build this team around Russell? What the Seahawks could be if they built this team around Russell?

    To be fair or play devil's advocate--other than Pete enforcing his philosophy, does he see tendencies or deficiencies in Russell's game that make him hesitate to build around Russell? Are we not seeing what the coaches see or know about Russell's game? Yes we see Russell make the big splash plays but when was the last time we saw Russell take apart a defense with the surgical precision of Brees, Brady, etc.?


    These are interesting points however PC made it clear when he got here before Wilson the system he wanted to run, and he has shown he is going to stick with it for the most part. ON the occasions they have morphed the offense around Wilson it has worked well. IF anything I can see base don last game and PCs comments that it has been more about the in ability of our oline to protect him.

    Given we have seen Wilson perform in a system more built for him, most of 2015, games throughout the last few years, we know he can. We have also seen him in College in different systems perform well. We know PC wants to run his system.

    This is pretty simple to me you have a coach who is going to run his system period. So coaches are like that adn it appears PC is one of them.

    Now ass to your surgical person thing, one the system we use does not do that, so it would have to have been on those off times PC runs a different system.

    That said just this year I can say
    Pittsburgh 29/35 3 tds 130.9 rating
    TB 29/43 5 tds 133.7
    I can go on he has done it when allowed to do it. However, those games were early on in the season when the run game was not working as well. Once the run game started working well the game plan changed.

    To me the actual EVIDENCE shows this is PC wanting to run his system and an oline that cannot protect. Now why because PC has said this, so that make sit open-and-shut,
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  • John63 wrote:
    thegameq wrote:Russell will never be elite to some because they are visually comparing him to Brees, Brady, etc. In reality they are comparing him to the offensive oriented system those quarterbacks are in.

    The real question is why after all these years will Pete not build this team around Russell? What the Seahawks could be if they built this team around Russell?

    To be fair or play devil's advocate--other than Pete enforcing his philosophy, does he see tendencies or deficiencies in Russell's game that make him hesitate to build around Russell? Are we not seeing what the coaches see or know about Russell's game? Yes we see Russell make the big splash plays but when was the last time we saw Russell take apart a defense with the surgical precision of Brees, Brady, etc.?


    These are interesting points however PC made it clear when he got here before Wilson the system he wanted to run, and he has shown he is going to stick with it for the most part. ON the occasions they have morphed the offense around Wilson it has worked well. IF anything I can see base don last game and PCs comments that it has been more about the in ability of our oline to protect him.

    Given we have seen Wilson perform in a system more built for him, most of 2015, games throughout the last few years, we know he can. We have also seen him in College in different systems perform well. We know PC wants to run his system.

    This is pretty simple to me you have a coach who is going to run his system period. So coaches are like that adn it appears PC is one of them.

    Now ass to your surgical person thing, one the system we use does not do that, so it would have to have been on those off times PC runs a different system.

    That said just this year I can say
    Pittsburgh 29/35 3 tds 130.9 rating
    TB 29/43 5 tds 133.7
    I can go on he has done it when allowed to do it. However, those games were early on in the season when the run game was not working as well. Once the run game started working well the game plan changed.

    To me the actual EVIDENCE shows this is PC wanting to run his system and an oline that cannot protect. Now why because PC has said this, so that make sit open-and-shut,

    Hahahahahhaaahaaaaaaa
    Tical21
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  • The interesting part of this thread is the OP actually thinks the whole world is pretending he is Elite, when they are not pretending.

    Top 10 qb rating (5)
    Top 10 QBR (7)
    Top 10 PFF (2)
    Top 10 PFT(3)
    Top 10 DYAR (5)
    Top 10 DVOA(7)
    Top 10 NFL (3)

    Open shut hes Elite.
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:The interesting part of this thread is the OP actually thinks the whole world is pretending he is Elite, when they are not pretending.

    Top 10 qb rating (5)
    Top 10 QBR (7)
    Top 10 PFF (2)
    Top 10 PFT(3)
    Top 10 DYAR (5)
    Top 10 DVOA(7)
    Top 10 NFL (3)

    Open shut hes Elite.


    But is he

    elite
    Elite
    or
    ELITE.....
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  • getnasty wrote:Russ is elite, there's really not doubt about that. The one area that i think he needs to be better to is changing the play at the line. I've never understood why he doesn't do this more often. He almost seems to ok with just going with things most of the time. I feel like you watch Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers and you see those guys change damn near every play.

    How would you know when he does or doesn't change a play? What are you using to back up that statement?
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  • RCATES wrote:If Russ is Elite lets see if we get bounced again at Home and in the playoffs again...................Inb4 its the O-Line or the O-Cord yata yata yata. Elite QB's overcome and win. Look how many years Brady has won with no names at WR and RB.

    No they don't and using 1 guy, Brady, doesn't prove they do.
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  • OrangeGravy wrote:
    RCATES wrote:If Russ is Elite lets see if we get bounced again at Home and in the playoffs again...................Inb4 its the O-Line or the O-Cord yata yata yata. Elite QB's overcome and win. Look how many years Brady has won with no names at WR and RB.

    No they don't and using 1 guy, Brady, doesn't prove they do.


    Still waiting doe these years were Brady did it with nothing, no top oline, no Tyne fame, no wrs, no defense. Still waiting for an example of one of those years.
    John63
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  • OrangeGravy wrote:
    getnasty wrote:Russ is elite, there's really not doubt about that. The one area that i think he needs to be better to is changing the play at the line. I've never understood why he doesn't do this more often. He almost seems to ok with just going with things most of the time. I feel like you watch Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers and you see those guys change damn near every play.

    How would you know when he does or doesn't change a play? What are you using to back up that statement?



    He doesn't, he is just talking hoping a few will agree and he can peddle his factless theory.
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    getnasty wrote:Russ is elite, there's really not doubt about that. The one area that i think he needs to be better to is changing the play at the line. I've never understood why he doesn't do this more often. He almost seems to ok with just going with things most of the time. I feel like you watch Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers and you see those guys change damn near every play.


    Hard to change the play when he gets under center with 5-7 seconds on the play clock.

    He seems to do just fine in hurry up when he is calling his own plays.


    Probably my biggest pet peeve of our offensive scheme and playcalling, not enough tempo and pace.

    Russell is one of the biggest rhythm and tempo QB's in the league, yet Pete loves his slow plodding time clock sucking ball control offense.

    With how well Russell thrives and succeeds in 2 and 4 minute offenses, not sure why Pete and Schotty don't let him do that more often. Nothing drives me crazier then after we get a turnover or big momentum shifting type play and here comes two straight hand offs with the ball snapped with one second on the play clock.

    Like last week after we blocked the punt. Great time to get out of the huddle quickly and take a shot? Nope, two straight hand offs for losses.

    Dumb.


    The first drive last week is a great example. They kept changing the Candace, they had layered routes, and we scored easily. After that, back to the old, run, run, every go long.


    Except it really didnt happen that way. We were gashing them with the run which made the offense click. When we were down to Homer the game changed. Wilson threw a lot of short passes.The run run pass narrative is old and flat out untrue. We ran on the first 2 downs 3 times. We had 3rd and 1 twice and 3rd and 5 once. Nothing wrong with that. We probably should have tried it more often.

    Even after the blocked fg we ran,passed for 10 leaving us 3rd and 3 with two downs to get it. A loss on the 3rd down run killed it. Its an obvious passing down. They ran it hoping for at least 2 setting up 4th and 1. Option to run or throw. Its an easy play sequence to understand if you dont have an ax to grind.

    Our drives were killed with fumbles,penalties and poor execution by the many players including Wilson IMO. Take a look at the drive charts instead of making stuff up. We threw a lot of short passes. Wilson is elite but he makes mistakes just like every other human being.

    And can we please delete or stop with the advertisements for twits from the twittersphere. If people on this site care what Mina Kimes or Geoff Schartz think we can go to them and send them likes,hearts, kissy face emojis and thumbs up and all that. Follow them if you like but they are still just corporate talking heads who may or may not follow the Hawks.
    justafan
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    Posts: 1908
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  • John63 wrote:
    thegameq wrote:Russell will never be elite to some because they are visually comparing him to Brees, Brady, etc. In reality they are comparing him to the offensive oriented system those quarterbacks are in.

    The real question is why after all these years will Pete not build this team around Russell? What the Seahawks could be if they built this team around Russell?

    To be fair or play devil's advocate--other than Pete enforcing his philosophy, does he see tendencies or deficiencies in Russell's game that make him hesitate to build around Russell? Are we not seeing what the coaches see or know about Russell's game? Yes we see Russell make the big splash plays but when was the last time we saw Russell take apart a defense with the surgical precision of Brees, Brady, etc.?


    These are interesting points however PC made it clear when he got here before Wilson the system he wanted to run, and he has shown he is going to stick with it for the most part. ON the occasions they have morphed the offense around Wilson it has worked well. IF anything I can see base don last game and PCs comments that it has been more about the in ability of our oline to protect him.

    Given we have seen Wilson perform in a system more built for him, most of 2015, games throughout the last few years, we know he can. We have also seen him in College in different systems perform well. We know PC wants to run his system.

    This is pretty simple to me you have a coach who is going to run his system period. So coaches are like that adn it appears PC is one of them.

    Now ass to your surgical person thing, one the system we use does not do that, so it would have to have been on those off times PC runs a different system.

    That said just this year I can say
    Pittsburgh 29/35 3 tds 130.9 rating
    TB 29/43 5 tds 133.7
    I can go on he has done it when allowed to do it. However, those games were early on in the season when the run game was not working as well. Once the run game started working well the game plan changed.

    To me the actual EVIDENCE shows this is PC wanting to run his system and an oline that cannot protect. Now why because PC has said this, so that make sit open-and-shut,


    It does keep coming back to Pete doesn't it? So much of the angst concerning this team would go away if PC would just adapt better or faster to in game situations. But doing things his way was a stipulation for him to take the job here...so yeah.
    thegameq
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  • OrangeGravy wrote:
    getnasty wrote:Russ is elite, there's really not doubt about that. The one area that i think he needs to be better to is changing the play at the line. I've never understood why he doesn't do this more often. He almost seems to ok with just going with things most of the time. I feel like you watch Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers and you see those guys change damn near every play.

    How would you know when he does or doesn't change a play? What are you using to back up that statement?


    I believe it was revealed some time ago that Russ has 3 plays he gets to chose from if he audibles. Of course he's limited to the formation, package, etc. on the field at the time.
    thegameq
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  • justafan wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    Hard to change the play when he gets under center with 5-7 seconds on the play clock.

    He seems to do just fine in hurry up when he is calling his own plays.


    Probably my biggest pet peeve of our offensive scheme and playcalling, not enough tempo and pace.

    Russell is one of the biggest rhythm and tempo QB's in the league, yet Pete loves his slow plodding time clock sucking ball control offense.

    With how well Russell thrives and succeeds in 2 and 4 minute offenses, not sure why Pete and Schotty don't let him do that more often. Nothing drives me crazier then after we get a turnover or big momentum shifting type play and here comes two straight hand offs with the ball snapped with one second on the play clock.

    Like last week after we blocked the punt. Great time to get out of the huddle quickly and take a shot? Nope, two straight hand offs for losses.

    Dumb.


    The first drive last week is a great example. They kept changing the Candace, they had layered routes, and we scored easily. After that, back to the old, run, run, every go long.


    Except it really didnt happen that way. We were gashing them with the run which made the offense click. When we were down to Homer the game changed. Wilson threw a lot of short passes.The run run pass narrative is old and flat out untrue. We ran on the first 2 downs 3 times. We had 3rd and 1 twice and 3rd and 5 once. Nothing wrong with that. We probably should have tried it more often.

    Even after the blocked fg we ran,passed for 10 leaving us 3rd and 3 with two downs to get it. A loss on the 3rd down run killed it. Its an obvious passing down. They ran it hoping for at least 2 setting up 4th and 1. Option to run or throw. Its an easy play sequence to understand if you dont have an ax to grind.

    Our drives were killed with fumbles,penalties and poor execution by the many players including Wilson IMO. Take a look at the drive charts instead of making stuff up. We threw a lot of short passes. Wilson is elite but he makes mistakes just like every other human being.

    And can we please delete or stop with the advertisements for twits from the twittersphere. If people on this site c

    are what Mina Kimes or Geoff Schartz think we can go to them and send them likes,hearts, kissy face emojis and thumbs up and all that. Follow them if you like but they are still just corporate talking heads who may or may not follow the Hawks.


    Nice right up but in correct. Yes we ran first series we also passed 4 of each in fact. That does not change the the fact they changed cadence even the announcers said it. Does not change the fact there were layered routes also something the announcers said. Also does not change that after that they did indeed go back to running and passing long as also the announcers commented on. At least till they had no choice but it was to late. So thanks for taking the time to comment but what I said stands.
    John63
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  • thegameq wrote:
    OrangeGravy wrote:
    getnasty wrote:Russ is elite, there's really not doubt about that. The one area that i think he needs to be better to is changing the play at the line. I've never understood why he doesn't do this more often. He almost seems to ok with just going with things most of the time. I feel like you watch Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers and you see those guys change damn near every play.

    How would you know when he does or doesn't change a play? What are you using to back up that statement?


    I believe it was revealed some time ago that Russ has 3 plays he gets to chose from if he audibles. Of course he's limited to the formation, package, etc. on the field at the time.


    Except in the hurry up o uptempo were it's all Wilson and funny enough we always move and score hmm.
    John63
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  • The Arizona game was ugly so I understand the frustration. We have 11 wins and we looked like dogcrap.,
    Northwest Seahawk
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  • Northwest Seahawk wrote:The Arizona game was ugly so I understand the frustration. We have 11 wins and we looked like dogcrap.,


    In most of them we did, and it almost always comes down to game plan, design and lack of adjustments.
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:
    justafan wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Probably my biggest pet peeve of our offensive scheme and playcalling, not enough tempo and pace.

    Russell is one of the biggest rhythm and tempo QB's in the league, yet Pete loves his slow plodding time clock sucking ball control offense.

    With how well Russell thrives and succeeds in 2 and 4 minute offenses, not sure why Pete and Schotty don't let him do that more often. Nothing drives me crazier then after we get a turnover or big momentum shifting type play and here comes two straight hand offs with the ball snapped with one second on the play clock.

    Like last week after we blocked the punt. Great time to get out of the huddle quickly and take a shot? Nope, two straight hand offs for losses.

    Dumb.


    The first drive last week is a great example. They kept changing the Candace, they had layered routes, and we scored easily. After that, back to the old, run, run, every go long.


    Except it really didnt happen that way. We were gashing them with the run which made the offense click. When we were down to Homer the game changed. Wilson threw a lot of short passes.The run run pass narrative is old and flat out untrue. We ran on the first 2 downs 3 times. We had 3rd and 1 twice and 3rd and 5 once. Nothing wrong with that. We probably should have tried it more often.

    Even after the blocked fg we ran,passed for 10 leaving us 3rd and 3 with two downs to get it. A loss on the 3rd down run killed it. Its an obvious passing down. They ran it hoping for at least 2 setting up 4th and 1. Option to run or throw. Its an easy play sequence to understand if you dont have an ax to grind.

    Our drives were killed with fumbles,penalties and poor execution by the many players including Wilson IMO. Take a look at the drive charts instead of making stuff up. We threw a lot of short passes. Wilson is elite but he makes mistakes just like every other human being.

    And can we please delete or stop with the advertisements for twits from the twittersphere. If people on this site c

    are what Mina Kimes or Geoff Schartz think we can go to them and send them likes,hearts, kissy face emojis and thumbs up and all that. Follow them if you like but they are still just corporate talking heads who may or may not follow the Hawks.


    Nice right up but in correct. Yes we ran first series we also passed 4 of each in fact. That does not change the the fact they changed cadence even the announcers said it. Does not change the fact there were layered routes also something the announcers said. Also does not change that after that they did indeed go back to running and passing long as also the announcers commented on. At least till they had no choice but it was to late. So thanks for taking the time to comment but what I said stands.



    Everybody played with precision except that damn cadence beat us. You cant really see the routes on TV so you really dont have any idea of the route concepts. They almost always have layers for the QB to read. From the stands you can see it. Unfortunately it was one of the few games I went to this year.
    You spout alot of BS and try passing it as fact because you have an ax to grind. Its not just the facts, you seem to make up words also.
    justafan
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    Posts: 1908
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  • justafan wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    justafan wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    The first drive last week is a great example. They kept changing the Candace, they had layered routes, and we scored easily. After that, back to the old, run, run, every go long.


    Except it really didnt happen that way. We were gashing them with the run which made the offense click. When we were down to Homer the game changed. Wilson threw a lot of short passes.The run run pass narrative is old and flat out untrue. We ran on the first 2 downs 3 times. We had 3rd and 1 twice and 3rd and 5 once. Nothing wrong with that. We probably should have tried it more often.

    Even after the blocked fg we ran,passed for 10 leaving us 3rd and 3 with two downs to get it. A loss on the 3rd down run killed it. Its an obvious passing down. They ran it hoping for at least 2 setting up 4th and 1. Option to run or throw. Its an easy play sequence to understand if you dont have an ax to grind.

    Our drives were killed with fumbles,penalties and poor execution by the many players including Wilson IMO. Take a look at the drive charts instead of making stuff up. We threw a lot of short passes. Wilson is elite but he makes mistakes just like every other human being.

    And can we please delete or stop with the advertisements for twits from the twittersphere. If people on this site c

    are what Mina Kimes or Geoff Schartz think we can go to them and send them likes,hearts, kissy face emojis and thumbs up and all that. Follow them if you like but they are still just corporate talking heads who may or may not follow the Hawks.


    Nice right up but in correct. Yes we ran first series we also passed 4 of each in fact. That does not change the the fact they changed cadence even the announcers said it. Does not change the fact there were layered routes also something the announcers said. Also does not change that after that they did indeed go back to running and passing long as also the announcers commented on. At least till they had no choice but it was to late. So thanks for taking the time to comment but what I said stands.



    Everybody played with precision except that damn cadence beat us. You cant really see the routes on TV so you really dont have any idea of the route concepts. They almost always have layers for the QB to read. From the stands you can see it. Unfortunately it was one of the few games I went to this year.
    You spout alot of BS and try passing it as fact because you have an ax to grind. Its not just the facts, you seem to make up words also.



    Lol yeah that's why the announcers said everyone was deep even when we needed just 3. That's why Huard said it. As to my spewing things that are not facts, ahh well the issue is they are facts that's why the announcers kept saying it.
    John63
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    Posts: 3167
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  • John63 wrote:That said just this year I can say
    Pittsburgh 29/35 3 tds 130.9 rating
    TB 29/43 5 tds 133.7
    I can go on he has done it when allowed to do it. However, those games were early on in the season when the run game was not working as well. Once the run game started working well the game plan changed.


    At least use games where our run game did not contribute.

    Pittsburgh 27/129 1TD 4.8ypc
    Tampa Bay 21/124 0TD 5.9ypc

    Even if you take out the splash plays (you don't get splash plays without the little gains setting up the defense for a small modification and suddenly your back is off to the races), you still get over 3ypc. That is how the NFL works. This is not college where teams consistently run for 4 or more yards on each handoff.

    Also, please get yourself access to the All 22. It is only $20 right now, and it will alleviate a lot of this layered routes talk. There are maybe three or four pass plays a game where we run two receivers deep with one outlet short and max protect. Even if you take that against the lowest amount of pass attempts Wilson made this season (twenty against the Bengals) that is eighty percent of the times were we have layered routes.
    BASF
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    Posts: 1870
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  • BASF wrote:
    John63 wrote:That said just this year I can say
    Pittsburgh 29/35 3 tds 130.9 rating
    TB 29/43 5 tds 133.7
    I can go on he has done it when allowed to do it. However, those games were early on in the season when the run game was not working as well. Once the run game started working well the game plan changed.


    At least use games where our run game did not contribute.

    Pittsburgh 27/129 1TD 4.8ypc
    Tampa Bay 21/124 0TD 5.9ypc

    Even if you take out the splash plays (you don't get splash plays without the little gains setting up the defense for a small modification and suddenly your back is off to the races), you still get over 3ypc. That is how the NFL works. This is not college where teams consistently run for 4 or more yards on each handoff.

    Also, please get yourself access to the All 22. It is only $20 right now, and it will alleviate a lot of this layered routes talk. There are maybe three or four pass plays a game where we run two receivers deep with one outlet short and max protect. Even if you take that against the lowest amount of pass attempts Wilson made this season (twenty against the Bengals) that is eighty percent of the times were we have layered routes.



    LOL it took you almost 2 months to reply LOL, Ahh not sure what point you are making, you cherry picked part of my post, I was showing game were we ran a different system, I can point to the 2nd half of almost any game too, as Huard another have said. So good for you, wasted post that really did nothing, as I will always take experts over fans with agendas.
    John63
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  • This post is the equivalent of farting into a room and then leaving the poor souls inside of the room to discuss their misfortune. Not a single reply from the OP.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:This post is the equivalent of farting into a room and then leaving the poor souls inside of the room to discuss their misfortune. Not a single reply from the OP.



    Hmm good point and he supposedly joined in 2015 but only 19 posts HMM
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:LOL it took you almost 2 months to reply


    You are the one that posted the link yesterday, inviting others to review it.

    John63 wrote:Ahh not sure what point you are making, you cherry picked part of my post, I was showing game were we ran a different system, I can point to the 2nd half of almost any game too, as Huard another have said. So good for you, wasted post that really did nothing, as I will always take experts over fans with agendas.


    My point was that you are misrepresenting things in your post. The run game was doing just as well early in the season as it was the second half of the season until the injuries to the linemen and backs. It is the same with misrepresenting that we do not run route combinations with layers. If you actually look at film, you will see it, instead of taking "experts" who are doing their best to generate viewers, word for it.
    BASF
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  • BASF wrote:
    John63 wrote:LOL it took you almost 2 months to reply


    You are the one that posted the link yesterday, inviting others to review it.

    John63 wrote:Ahh not sure what point you are making, you cherry picked part of my post, I was showing game were we ran a different system, I can point to the 2nd half of almost any game too, as Huard another have said. So good for you, wasted post that really did nothing, as I will always take experts over fans with agendas.


    My point was that you are misrepresenting things in your post. The run game was doing just as well early in the season as it was the second half of the season until the injuries to the linemen and backs. It is the same with misrepresenting that we do not run route combinations with layers. If you actually look at film, you will see it, instead of taking "experts" who are doing their best to generate viewers, word for it.



    No I am not misrepresenting anything, the point was Wilson can kill it with or without a run game

    That said Run game doing well early in the season lets see, not counting Wilsons running

    Game one 64 yards 3 ypc yeah that is great NOT
    Game 2 now here we did well, noone over 100 yards but 130 total and 4.7 ypc
    Game 3 57 yards, 3 ypc NOT GOOD
    Game 4 108 good, 4.3 ypc good

    So first 4 a mix bag 2 good 2 bag, does not change what I meant by the system though, the reality is we struggled early first qtr of the season, then picked it up, and then struggled late. None of which changes my point which was Wilson can perform with or without a run game and has proven it.


    And FYI I posted to show some of the very negative views some on here have of Wilson and you took it way off chart.
    FYI I do look at Film and you are right we do run rout combo in the 2nd half when we change the tempo, in first half yeah no. If you can't see the huge difference in the style of play form one half to another than, well you are not looking and as I said I will go with the experts most of whom are saying the same thing. So again good for you but wasted post
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