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Re: O-Line
Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:11 am
  • sutz wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:With all these veteran signings so far in FA I think they will add someone in the draft.

    They pretty much do every draft. These signings do change the priority a bit, so our OL picks can be based on talent more than need.

    Also looks like Pete won't get his wish, when he said he wanted to keep as many starters as possible. If the new guys are good enough, maybe there won't be a significant continuity penalty.



    I've been amazed by the number of significant OL signings by teams in this opening salvo of FA. That indicates to me we stand a great chance of taking advantage of one of this draft's greatest strengths, which is O Line. So you would think things are looking up for us on that front. Our own FA moves make me agree we're looking toward that solution. We didn't sign anything but temp bandades. If so this draft could fix our O Line problem for a good stretch.

    Same applies to DE/Rush. Wowzer what a whirlwind of signings at that spot. Nearly every candidate on the board found a home...except the one we want most. Maybe we'll get our guy and still have a shot in the draft at one of the best for that spot too. There aren't all that many teams really hurting at that spot now.
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Re: O-Line
Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:31 am
  • So I am good with the OL signings, but not with he type. All so far are run blockers with questionable pass blocking. That once again is a concern.
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Re: O-Line
Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:38 am
  • So, you know a bunch about all these guys they just signed? And why do you care if others get hyped up about any of the signings? Just curious.
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Re: O-Line
Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:31 pm
  • Basically they got 2 guys with experience for 1 (Fant). Plus they get Solari as coach. These are solid signings on the cheap.

    Draft a center and guard and we're going to have a good line for several years.
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Re: O-Line
Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:58 pm
  • The only one that's an upgrade is Finney. The other two are low level journeymen. Meh.
    So far, Russell's wish for "stars" as gone unheeded.
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Re: O-Line
Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:19 pm
  • One of them is a first rounder that will be coached by one of the best. He deserves a chance in a new system.
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Re: O-Line
Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:54 pm
  • Largent80 wrote:One of them is a first rounder that will be coached by one of the best. He deserves a chance in a new system.


    He'll get that chance, but being once a first rounder and now a dud? Having been a first rounder or even a 7th rounder means jack squat once you're a NFL veteran. If he were to be drafted NOW off his NFL play he'd a UDFA.

    Iupati is better and Ifedi is better than the other guy.
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Re: O-Line
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:52 pm
  • TreeRon wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:One of them is a first rounder that will be coached by one of the best. He deserves a chance in a new system.


    He'll get that chance, but being once a first rounder and now a dud? Having been a first rounder or even a 7th rounder means jack squat once you're a NFL veteran. If he were to be drafted NOW off his NFL play he'd a UDFA.

    Iupati is better and Ifedi is better than the other guy.


    Actually I've seen Jets fans have said the opposite. Not by much, but an improvement is an improvement, especially at a way cheaper price than what Ifedi might go for this year and forward,
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Re: O-Line
Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:57 pm
  • Not that I think this will actually happen but since Ifedi is not getting any takers who is to say we are not bringing him back again. On the plus side he has been mostly injury free and has shown improvement. It would not surprise me to see him get a little bit better over the next few years. As many penalties he has made I think he has also shown to be a very powerful and sometimes successful player. I don't hate him, but don't want to spend $10mil.
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Re: O-Line
Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:14 pm
  • He's an Iron Man.

    Germain Ifedi has answered the call and taken every snap in two out of his four years.

    Got to love his core strength. He's an Iron Man.
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Re: O-Line
Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:03 pm
  • I personally think our O-Line coach was very involved with our FA picks for his blocking system. You have to trust that he knows what he is doing.
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Re: O-Line
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:23 am
  • It appears teams are giving a great amount of resources to ensure QB safety and time in the pocket. O-lineman are extremely valuable in today’s NFL, I’d stock up big time if it was my call. Same can be said about guys that get after the QB, pass rushers are worth boatloads right now. And then there’s TE, Interior DT’s , safetys and WR(mostly because the draft is stacked) can’t get half what pass rushers are getting so I think those positions you fill out in FA. Get o line in the draft because it’s too expensive to sign them in FA
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Re: O-Line
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:30 am
  • TreeRon wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:One of them is a first rounder that will be coached by one of the best. He deserves a chance in a new system.


    He'll get that chance, but being once a first rounder and now a dud? Having been a first rounder or even a 7th rounder means jack squat once you're a NFL veteran. If he were to be drafted NOW off his NFL play he'd a UDFA.

    Iupati is better and Ifedi is better than the other guy.


    Sometimes a player moving to a new team helps dramatically. And I didn't say being a first rounder was anything more than that except to say a team felt good enough to take that player there. Give the guy a chance before making an assumption from another teams scheme and coaches.

    Iupati is trash and can't stay on the field, and Ifedi is available for a reason, NOT GOOD ENOUGH for even a 5th round option. He played in a lot of games so where is a dramatic improvement even with one of the best coaches in the league?
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Re: O-Line
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:44 am
  • We can argue about the value of Iupati and Ifedi all day. We would agree, I hope, that we need better however. IMO, these two guys do not appear, based on PFF, to be the upgrades we had been hoping for. BTW, PFF is not the end all and be all but they're the only "objective" measure we have.
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Re: O-Line
Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:24 am
  • Ifedi isn't signed for a reason. After 5 years all he has going for him is he's been lucky enough to be basically injury free. He is always tops in the league at pre-snap drive killing penalties...after 5 stinkin years. He's also over valuing himself. The Hawks said, ok we'll get 2 journeymen for the price of Fant and hey Germaine, one of them can play RT.

    As for Iupati, he hasn't played a full season in years and isn't getting any younger.

    It's easy to see that Solari likes these guys and requested them. I'll go with him and the front office on this.
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Re: O-Line
Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:02 am
  • John63 wrote:So I am good with the OL signings, but not with he type. All so far are run blockers with questionable pass blocking. That once again is a concern.


    I don't think there's much to back up your statement here.

    Brandon Shell's 2019 PFF ratings were 64.7 in pass blocking and 63.6 in run blocking. This compared to Ifedi grading out at 63.3 PB/58.8 RB. Stats obtained via article here: https://www-1.thenewstribune.com/sports ... 0281.html#

    BJ Finney is renowned specifically for his pass blocking prowess in limited action. He's played in a reserve role for his career, but again, in limited action he's played very well at center and guard.

    Image

    As for Ogbuehi, he's more of a reclamation project. He presumably slots into the Fant role of reserve tackle who primarily plays as an extra lineman in heavy sets. Ogbuehi is long armed, has a prototypical tackle body, and is about as good of a developmental guy as you'd want on the roster.
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Re: O-Line
Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:12 pm
  • "It's easy to see that Solari likes these guys and requested them." Pure speculation.
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Re: O-Line
Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:38 pm
  • TreeRon wrote:We can argue about the value of Iupati and Ifedi all day. We would agree, I hope, that we need better however. IMO, these two guys do not appear, based on PFF, to be the upgrades we had been hoping for. BTW, PFF is not the end all and be all but they're the only "objective" measure we have.


    PFF is objective? What a load of baloney. They are guessing what alignments or plays are being called. They don't know unless they were in the huddle with 11 other guys. While they may be more of experts than most on here, the ratings are opinions and should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Re: O-Line
Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:14 pm
  • hawkfan68 wrote:
    TreeRon wrote:We can argue about the value of Iupati and Ifedi all day. We would agree, I hope, that we need better however. IMO, these two guys do not appear, based on PFF, to be the upgrades we had been hoping for. BTW, PFF is not the end all and be all but they're the only "objective" measure we have.


    PFF is objective? What a load of baloney. They are guessing what alignments or plays are being called. They don't know unless they were in the huddle with 11 other guys. While they may be more of experts than most on here, the ratings are opinions and should be taken with a grain of salt.


    That's why the quotes.
    If you have another form of measurement that isn't completely subjective, show me.
    PFF is certainly more "objective" than ....'the guys on the Jet's forum' .....or some such.
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Re: O-Line
Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:29 pm
  • TreeRon wrote:
    hawkfan68 wrote:
    TreeRon wrote:We can argue about the value of Iupati and Ifedi all day. We would agree, I hope, that we need better however. IMO, these two guys do not appear, based on PFF, to be the upgrades we had been hoping for. BTW, PFF is not the end all and be all but they're the only "objective" measure we have.


    PFF is objective? What a load of baloney. They are guessing what alignments or plays are being called. They don't know unless they were in the huddle with 11 other guys. While they may be more of experts than most on here, the ratings are opinions and should be taken with a grain of salt.


    That's why the quotes.
    If you have another form of measurement that isn't completely subjective, show me.
    PFF is certainly more "objective" than ....'the guys on the Jet's forum' .....or some such.


    Ratings are very opinionated. No site or person is going to be truly objective. I don't take into consideration anyone's ratings other than the team that chooses the player. For example, look who PFF has as their top free agent in 2020 - Jameis Winston - https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-the-50-best-available-nfl-free-agents-in-2020. That in itself destroys any credibility right there. No way Winston, after his play last season, should be considered as the top FA.
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Re: O-Line
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:01 pm
  • TreeRon wrote:"It's easy to see that Solari likes these guys and requested them." Pure speculation.


    Speculation?... If you think Pete and John are not consulting with every coach at every position of need then you have missed an entire decade of proof that they indeed do it constantly.
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Re: O-Line
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:52 pm
  • They may have consulted Solari, which is a long way from Salari requesting these guys which is what you wrote.
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Re: O-Line
Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:26 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:So, you know a bunch about all these guys they just signed? And why do you care if others get hyped up about any of the signings? Just curious.


    I known how they rated in both pass and run blocking and for pass blocking not good.
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Re: O-Line
Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:28 pm
  • Kinger95 wrote:It appears teams are giving a great amount of resources to ensure QB safety and time in the pocket. O-lineman are extremely valuable in today’s NFL, I’d stock up big time if it was my call. Same can be said about guys that get after the QB, pass rushers are worth boatloads right now. And then there’s TE, Interior DT’s , safetys and WR(mostly because the draft is stacked) can’t get half what pass rushers are getting so I think those positions you fill out in FA. Get o line in the draft because it’s too expensive to sign them in FA


    Yeah lots of quantity little quality though
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Re: O-Line
Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:29 pm
  • One way to get an objective view of a player's ability is to look at the ratings for the players he played behind and the ratings of line play for the team he is coming from.
    I agree that sometimes a change of scenery is a refresher for a player. Hope that works in our favor, but our record for O Line hasn't been all that great.
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Re: O-Line
Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:49 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:So, you know a bunch about all these guys they just signed? And why do you care if others get hyped up about any of the signings? Just curious.


    I known how they rated in both pass and run blocking and for pass blocking not good.


    Again, there is very little to back up your claim about them being mainly run blockers. Finney and Shell both have stats that show their pass blocking to be on par or better than their run blocking.

    If you'd like to refute that, at least provide some form of analysis. I'd be happy to be educated further on the subject with some actual evidence.
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Re: O-Line
Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:09 pm
  • TreeRon wrote:They may have consulted Solari, which is a long way from Salari requesting these guys which is what you wrote.


    So, evidently you are on some sort of correction of posters or something weird like that?....There is more to life
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Re: O-Line
Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:27 am
  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:So, you know a bunch about all these guys they just signed? And why do you care if others get hyped up about any of the signings? Just curious.


    I known how they rated in both pass and run blocking and for pass blocking not good.


    Again, there is very little to back up your claim about them being mainly run blockers. Finney and Shell both have stats that show their pass blocking to be on par or better than their run blocking.

    If you'd like to refute that, at least provide some form of analysis. I'd be happy to be educated further on the subject with some actual evidence.

    Don't you understand it's all about RUSS and we need to get the 5 highest rated pass blockers in the NFL so RUSS can throw for 6000 because nothing else matters besides RUSS!!??
    I asked the guy how we were supposed to afford Hopkins when he was lamenting Seattle not trading for him cuz RUSS needs more weapons considering we have a QB getting 35 per and AZ has a QB on a rookie contract. Was met with crickets.
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Re: O-Line
Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:37 am
  • Largent80 wrote:
    TreeRon wrote:They may have consulted Solari, which is a long way from Salari requesting these guys which is what you wrote.


    So, evidently you are on some sort of correction of posters or something weird like that?....There is more to life


    Yes, I have a vocabulary.
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Re: O-Line
Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:43 am
  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:So, you know a bunch about all these guys they just signed? And why do you care if others get hyped up about any of the signings? Just curious.


    I known how they rated in both pass and run blocking and for pass blocking not good.


    Again, there is very little to back up your claim about them being mainly run blockers. Finney and Shell both have stats that show their pass blocking to be on par or better than their run blocking.

    If you'd like to refute that, at least provide some form of analysis. I'd be happy to be educated further on the subject with some actual evidence.

    Don't you understand it's all about RUSS and we need to get the 5 highest rated pass blockers in the NFL so RUSS can throw for 6000 because nothing else matters besides RUSS!!??
    I asked the guy how we were supposed to afford Hopkins when he was lamenting Seattle not trading for him cuz RUSS needs more weapons considering we have a QB getting 35 per and AZ has a QB on a rookie contract. Was met with crickets.


    Seems par for the course. As if elite pass blockers are even available, much less for a price that isn't astronomical. We should just sign 5 prime Andrew Whitworths for 2m/yr each.

    Some folks just can't comprehend the salary cap or the concept of roster building. They think this is something akin to Hungry Hungry Hippos where you just try to get as many items as possible as the object of the game.
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Re: O-Line
Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:35 pm
  • So sorry been busy, as to the oline well I am seeing that Shell

    Hmm tied for 7th most sacks https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/brandon-shell/10792


    Now Cedric Ogbuehi Hmm only played 155 snaps last year, 54 the year before, Now in 2017 when he played 665 snaps he was 5th in sacks allowed https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/cedric-ogbuehi/9454?season=2017


    B.J. Finney lets see now here we may have something 2019 325 snaps only 1 sack overall rank 56.9 so half a seasons worth, only 1 sack but a bad rating. 2018 only 165 snaps, 2017 234 snaps, So basically he has never played a whole season, but can play many positions, and may have some potential but at best a question mark. https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/bj-finney/9875?season=2019



    So yeah under whelmed 2 of the 3 are bad pass blockers and the other is a question mark.

    Now as to the whole everything is about Wilson, no everything is about the one position we can't loose and still have a chance of winning. Any real fan who has watched knows if Wilson goes down we are screwed, and since 2012 we have never had an oline better than 20th at pass blocking. I would think a real fan would be furious that they are not doing more to protect him. Now we have signed 2 oline man in the only years they played close to a full season were top 10 in sacks. Yeah we all should not be happy about this.
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Re: O-Line
Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:48 pm
  • John63 wrote:So sorry been busy, as to the oline well I am seeing that Shell

    Hmm tied for 7th most sacks https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/brandon-shell/10792


    Now Cedric Ogbuehi Hmm only played 155 snaps last year, 54 the year before, Now in 2017 when he played 665 snaps he was 5th in sacks allowed https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/cedric-ogbuehi/9454?season=2017


    B.J. Finney lets see now here we may have something 2019 325 snaps only 1 sack overall rank 56.9 so half a seasons worth, only 1 sack but a bad rating. 2018 only 165 snaps, 2017 234 snaps, So basically he has never played a whole season, but can play many positions, and may have some potential but at best a question mark. https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/bj-finney/9875?season=2019



    So yeah under whelmed 2 of the 3 are bad pass blockers and the other is a question mark.

    Now as to the whole everything is about Wilson, no everything is about the one position we can't loose and still have a chance of winning. Any real fan who has watched knows if Wilson goes down we are screwed, and since 2012 we have never had an oline better than 20th at pass blocking. I would think a real fan would be furious that they are not doing more to protect him. Now we have signed 2 oline man in the only years they played close to a full season were top 10 in sacks. Yeah we all should not be happy about this.


    That says nothing of their run blocking. Your claim that their pass blocking is comparatively poor across the board compared to their run blocking holds no water, and your post here does little to support the claim.

    You cannot sign sure-thing offensive linemen for the backup prices that Finney and Shell are getting. Ogbuehi's contract is, from what I've heard, incentive-laden with a low base salary under $2m.

    Here's the facts: Shell has performed slightly better than Ifedi throughout his career, with less penalties, and we're signing him for about half of what Ifedi's supposed market value was. Yeah, he's not the best right tackle in the league. Neither was Ifedi. Incremental improvement at the position for under market value is good, no matter how you slice it.

    Finney, in limited action, has played competently - especially at center. He's coming in at a very low price. His pass blocking is his best trait according to evaluators.

    Ogbuehi has sucked - but most backup lineman do. He has potential due to his excellent measurables and it looks like he's going to be strictly a backup tackle and maybe 6th lineman, taking over Fant's role.

    Plus, we just signed Chance Warmack, another guard. More depth, more potential. And this is BEFORE going into the draft. They've done well so far, without overpaying. Maybe this line isn't up to your frankly unreasonable standards, but in a league where offensive line talent is hard to find without bankrupting the team, I'm satisfied with this free agency period for OL.
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Re: O-Line
Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:27 pm
  • TreeRon wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:
    TreeRon wrote:They may have consulted Solari, which is a long way from Salari requesting these guys which is what you wrote.


    So, evidently you are on some sort of correction of posters or something weird like that?....There is more to life


    Yes, I have a vocabulary.

    Add a brain and an ability to come up with something that is the actual subject, then your credibility will maybe be considered.
    Maybe climbing a tree is your forte?
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Re: O-Line
Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:05 pm
  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:So sorry been busy, as to the oline well I am seeing that Shell

    Hmm tied for 7th most sacks https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/brandon-shell/10792


    Now Cedric Ogbuehi Hmm only played 155 snaps last year, 54 the year before, Now in 2017 when he played 665 snaps he was 5th in sacks allowed https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/cedric-ogbuehi/9454?season=2017


    B.J. Finney lets see now here we may have something 2019 325 snaps only 1 sack overall rank 56.9 so half a seasons worth, only 1 sack but a bad rating. 2018 only 165 snaps, 2017 234 snaps, So basically he has never played a whole season, but can play many positions, and may have some potential but at best a question mark. https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/bj-finney/9875?season=2019



    So yeah under whelmed 2 of the 3 are bad pass blockers and the other is a question mark.

    Now as to the whole everything is about Wilson, no everything is about the one position we can't loose and still have a chance of winning. Any real fan who has watched knows if Wilson goes down we are screwed, and since 2012 we have never had an oline better than 20th at pass blocking. I would think a real fan would be furious that they are not doing more to protect him. Now we have signed 2 oline man in the only years they played close to a full season were top 10 in sacks. Yeah we all should not be happy about this.


    That says nothing of their run blocking. Your claim that their pass blocking is comparatively poor across the board compared to their run blocking holds no water, and your post here does little to support the claim.

    You cannot sign sure-thing offensive linemen for the backup prices that Finney and Shell are getting. Ogbuehi's contract is, from what I've heard, incentive-laden with a low base salary under $2m.

    Here's the facts: Shell has performed slightly better than Ifedi throughout his career, with less penalties, and we're signing him for about half of what Ifedi's supposed market value was. Yeah, he's not the best right tackle in the league. Neither was Ifedi. Incremental improvement at the position for under market value is good, no matter how you slice it.

    Finney, in limited action, has played competently - especially at center. He's coming in at a very low price. His pass blocking is his best trait according to evaluators.

    Ogbuehi has sucked - but most backup lineman do. He has potential due to his excellent measurables and it looks like he's going to be strictly a backup tackle and maybe 6th lineman, taking over Fant's role.

    Plus, we just signed Chance Warmack, another guard. More depth, more potential. And this is BEFORE going into the draft. They've done well so far, without overpaying. Maybe this line isn't up to your frankly unreasonable standards, but in a league where offensive line talent is hard to find without bankrupting the team, I'm satisfied with this free agency period for OL.



    It is a given they can run block, that is what PC puts a premium on. I am concerned with pass blocking and none have proven they are good at that. FyI my standards are not in reasonable just get 15 or higher in pass blocking that would be avg. I am glad your satisfied I and others are not.
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Re: O-Line
Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:18 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:So sorry been busy, as to the oline well I am seeing that Shell

    Hmm tied for 7th most sacks https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/brandon-shell/10792


    Now Cedric Ogbuehi Hmm only played 155 snaps last year, 54 the year before, Now in 2017 when he played 665 snaps he was 5th in sacks allowed https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/cedric-ogbuehi/9454?season=2017


    B.J. Finney lets see now here we may have something 2019 325 snaps only 1 sack overall rank 56.9 so half a seasons worth, only 1 sack but a bad rating. 2018 only 165 snaps, 2017 234 snaps, So basically he has never played a whole season, but can play many positions, and may have some potential but at best a question mark. https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/bj-finney/9875?season=2019



    So yeah under whelmed 2 of the 3 are bad pass blockers and the other is a question mark.

    Now as to the whole everything is about Wilson, no everything is about the one position we can't loose and still have a chance of winning. Any real fan who has watched knows if Wilson goes down we are screwed, and since 2012 we have never had an oline better than 20th at pass blocking. I would think a real fan would be furious that they are not doing more to protect him. Now we have signed 2 oline man in the only years they played close to a full season were top 10 in sacks. Yeah we all should not be happy about this.


    That says nothing of their run blocking. Your claim that their pass blocking is comparatively poor across the board compared to their run blocking holds no water, and your post here does little to support the claim.

    You cannot sign sure-thing offensive linemen for the backup prices that Finney and Shell are getting. Ogbuehi's contract is, from what I've heard, incentive-laden with a low base salary under $2m.

    Here's the facts: Shell has performed slightly better than Ifedi throughout his career, with less penalties, and we're signing him for about half of what Ifedi's supposed market value was. Yeah, he's not the best right tackle in the league. Neither was Ifedi. Incremental improvement at the position for under market value is good, no matter how you slice it.

    Finney, in limited action, has played competently - especially at center. He's coming in at a very low price. His pass blocking is his best trait according to evaluators.

    Ogbuehi has sucked - but most backup lineman do. He has potential due to his excellent measurables and it looks like he's going to be strictly a backup tackle and maybe 6th lineman, taking over Fant's role.

    Plus, we just signed Chance Warmack, another guard. More depth, more potential. And this is BEFORE going into the draft. They've done well so far, without overpaying. Maybe this line isn't up to your frankly unreasonable standards, but in a league where offensive line talent is hard to find without bankrupting the team, I'm satisfied with this free agency period for OL.



    It is a given they can run block, that is what PC puts a premium on. I am concerned with pass blocking and none have proven they are good at that. FyI my standards are not in reasonable just get 15 or higher in pass blocking that would be avg. I am glad your satisfied I and others are not.


    Again, nothing to back up your original claim that they're good at run blocking and bad at pass blocking, because there's not much there to actually back it up.

    Good linemen don't grow on trees. They cost a LOT of money, these days. Sacrifices have to be made in order to field a team with a franchise QB under a big contract, not to mention one that badly needs an infusion of talent in the (also expensive) pass rush department. Value needs to be taken where it can be found, and they've gotten good value for some players that are serviceable on the OL. Not every player can be an all-star pass protector, unless you want to pay half your salary cap to your line.
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Re: O-Line
Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:19 pm
  • 4 new OL is a big statement. Can't say we are not trying. Multiple previous first round picks and guys who have playing experience. We won't have to worry about versatility or inexperience. Lots of camp competition and I'm sure Duane Brown is ready to lead this new group.
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Re: O-Line
Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:25 pm
  • Wenhawk wrote:4 new OL is a big statement. Can't say we are not trying. Multiple previous first round picks and guys who have playing experience. We won't have to worry about versatility or inexperience. Lots of camp competition and I'm sure Duane Brown is ready to lead this new group.


    Quantity over quality that's for sure.
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Re: O-Line
Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:42 am
  • John63 wrote:So sorry been busy, as to the oline well I am seeing that Shell

    Hmm tied for 7th most sacks https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/brandon-shell/10792


    Now Cedric Ogbuehi Hmm only played 155 snaps last year, 54 the year before, Now in 2017 when he played 665 snaps he was 5th in sacks allowed https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/cedric-ogbuehi/9454?season=2017


    B.J. Finney lets see now here we may have something 2019 325 snaps only 1 sack overall rank 56.9 so half a seasons worth, only 1 sack but a bad rating. 2018 only 165 snaps, 2017 234 snaps, So basically he has never played a whole season, but can play many positions, and may have some potential but at best a question mark. https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/bj-finney/9875?season=2019



    So yeah under whelmed 2 of the 3 are bad pass blockers and the other is a question mark.

    Now as to the whole everything is about Wilson, no everything is about the one position we can't loose and still have a chance of winning. Any real fan who has watched knows if Wilson goes down we are screwed, and since 2012 we have never had an oline better than 20th at pass blocking. I would think a real fan would be furious that they are not doing more to protect him. Now we have signed 2 oline man in the only years they played close to a full season were top 10 in sacks. Yeah we all should not be happy about this.

    Any team that loses (not looses) it's starting QB is screwed. You post the same thing ad naseum.
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Re: O-Line
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:08 am
  • John63 wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:4 new OL is a big statement. Can't say we are not trying. Multiple previous first round picks and guys who have playing experience. We won't have to worry about versatility or inexperience. Lots of camp competition and I'm sure Duane Brown is ready to lead this new group.


    Quantity over quality that's for sure.


    I would argue that 3 of 4 of these signing has immense physical talent. They are not signing Joey Hunt's here. They are signing giants who have at one point or another shown to be very successful.

    Cedric Ogbuehi 6'5 308lbs former 1st rd pick #21
    Chance Warmack 6'2 323lbs former 1st rd pick #10
    Brandon Shell 6'5 324lbs near physical carbon coy of Ifedi.

    So we didn't sign the Top Rated OL but I do think when the Seahawks have gone this method where they flood a position with new talent it has seemed to work out pretty well for us. We still have draft picks, who to say we don't use one of our top 3 pick on OL but this gives us the ability to not have to trust a rookie to protect Wilson and we sure didn't' break the bank. Seem very strategic to me.
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Re: O-Line
Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:34 am
  • Wenhawk wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:4 new OL is a big statement. Can't say we are not trying. Multiple previous first round picks and guys who have playing experience. We won't have to worry about versatility or inexperience. Lots of camp competition and I'm sure Duane Brown is ready to lead this new group.


    Quantity over quality that's for sure.


    I would argue that 3 of 4 of these signing has immense physical talent. They are not signing Joey Hunt's here. They are signing giants who have at one point or another shown to be very successful.

    Cedric Ogbuehi 6'5 308lbs former 1st rd pick #21
    Chance Warmack 6'2 323lbs former 1st rd pick #10
    Brandon Shell 6'5 324lbs near physical carbon coy of Ifedi.

    So we didn't sign the Top Rated OL but I do think when the Seahawks have gone this method where they flood a position with new talent it has seemed to work out pretty well for us. We still have draft picks, who to say we don't use one of our top 3 pick on OL but this gives us the ability to not have to trust a rookie to protect Wilson and we sure didn't' break the bank. Seem very strategic to me.



    And I would argue as I pointed out based on performance they are at best avg and with regards to passing below avg. This is the same methodology they have used for years and in that time the oline pass protection has never even got close to middle of the pack.
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Re: O-Line
Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:37 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:4 new OL is a big statement. Can't say we are not trying. Multiple previous first round picks and guys who have playing experience. We won't have to worry about versatility or inexperience. Lots of camp competition and I'm sure Duane Brown is ready to lead this new group.


    Quantity over quality that's for sure.


    I would argue that 3 of 4 of these signing has immense physical talent. They are not signing Joey Hunt's here. They are signing giants who have at one point or another shown to be very successful.

    Cedric Ogbuehi 6'5 308lbs former 1st rd pick #21
    Chance Warmack 6'2 323lbs former 1st rd pick #10
    Brandon Shell 6'5 324lbs near physical carbon coy of Ifedi.

    So we didn't sign the Top Rated OL but I do think when the Seahawks have gone this method where they flood a position with new talent it has seemed to work out pretty well for us. We still have draft picks, who to say we don't use one of our top 3 pick on OL but this gives us the ability to not have to trust a rookie to protect Wilson and we sure didn't' break the bank. Seem very strategic to me.



    And I would argue as I pointed out based on performance they are at best avg and with regards to passing below avg. This is the same methodology they have used for years and in that time the oline pass protection has never even got close to middle of the pack.


    How would you feel if we drafted Austin Jackson with out first? Could still happen.
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Re: O-Line
Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:47 pm
  • He'd still be unhappy b/c the team has the others here.

    Sometimes you just have to look at the continuing refrain.
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Re: O-Line
Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:48 pm
  • When I see them amassing road graders, and this deep RB class I'm thinking #27 will be RB.
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Re: O-Line
Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:59 pm
  • Could be for sure as the team wants to be able to establish a run ability before any other thing, but it also could be that they see guys they want to assess and for the most part they are not that pricey. There are signs the team may draft a RB at least on or before their 4th pick in the draft, and several are potentially good fits.

    Several of these guys have seriously high potential to be special if they can figure out their 'issues'. Most all of them are here on prove it type contracts.

    The number of OL guys that are now here certainly will present a very high level of competition for the 10 or so spots that could be available.
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Re: O-Line
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:01 pm
  • Considering our limited resources Wen is right that at least the FO is trying. And IF these new to us guys can come in and step up to become what they were originally hoped to be, Russ can become Dangerous Russ instead of Russ in Danger.
    Can hardly wait to see our rookie class.
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Re: O-Line
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:09 pm
  • Largent80 wrote:When I see them amassing road graders, and this deep RB class I'm thinking #27 will be RB.



    I am starting to think RB as well for #27. Perhaps Jonathan Taylor?
    kf3339
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Re: O-Line
Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:39 pm
  • kf3339 wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:When I see them amassing road graders, and this deep RB class I'm thinking #27 will be RB.



    I am starting to think RB as well for #27. Perhaps Jonathan Taylor?


    Taylor is projected late 1st and would step in and produce right away. There are at least 3 or 4 others that deserve a look in the 1-2nd rd.

    With Carson and Penny coming off injury a young 220+ back would be great. Taylor is proven unlike Penny.
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Re: O-Line
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:03 am
  • Wenhawk wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Quantity over quality that's for sure.


    I would argue that 3 of 4 of these signing has immense physical talent. They are not signing Joey Hunt's here. They are signing giants who have at one point or another shown to be very successful.

    Cedric Ogbuehi 6'5 308lbs former 1st rd pick #21
    Chance Warmack 6'2 323lbs former 1st rd pick #10
    Brandon Shell 6'5 324lbs near physical carbon coy of Ifedi.

    So we didn't sign the Top Rated OL but I do think when the Seahawks have gone this method where they flood a position with new talent it has seemed to work out pretty well for us. We still have draft picks, who to say we don't use one of our top 3 pick on OL but this gives us the ability to not have to trust a rookie to protect Wilson and we sure didn't' break the bank. Seem very strategic to me.



    And I would argue as I pointed out based on performance they are at best avg and with regards to passing below avg. This is the same methodology they have used for years and in that time the oline pass protection has never even got close to middle of the pack.


    How would you feel if we drafted Austin Jackson with out first? Could still happen.



    It could and IF it did that would be great. however, as of now oline still a HUGE concern.
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Re: O-Line
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:04 am
  • jammerhawk wrote:He'd still be unhappy b/c the team has the others here.

    Sometimes you just have to look at the continuing refrain.


    ahh you made no sense at all. I want an oline that can at least be avg in pass blocking, not top 10 just avg. That is not too much to ask for or expect.
    John63
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Re: O-Line
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:05 am
  • jammerhawk wrote:Could be for sure as the team wants to be able to establish a run ability before any other thing, but it also could be that they see guys they want to assess and for the most part they are not that pricey. There are signs the team may draft a RB at least on or before their 4th pick in the draft, and several are potentially good fits.

    Several of these guys have seriously high potential to be special if they can figure out their 'issues'. Most all of them are here on prove it type contracts.

    The number of OL guys that are now here certainly will present a very high level of competition for the 10 or so spots that could be available.



    Like I said quantity not quality until they show otherwise.
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