A tale of two lines

Our lines both needed help in off season, arguably John spent more effort improving the DL then OL.

Four games in, one could notice an improving OL, Russel often had time to cook and run block seems to be adequate. Even Poccic impressed some and Shell seems to settled down.

DL continues to under perform, seemingly no end in sight.

Could it be coaching?

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Not sure how you can say more effort and time was spend rebuilding the D-line than the O-line, when there's three new starters along the O-line, and they brought in what, like eight O-linemen in the off season, and used a 3rd round pick on Lewis.

I just think Pete and John misjudged the D-line free agent market, and didn't grab one of the top 10 free agents early like other teams, and by the time the dust settled all that was left was 3rd and 4th tier guys like Irvin and Mayowa.

So coaching? No. Hurtt did a fantastic job in Chicago, and we've actually seen some good development with the guys we've drafted. Collier, Mone, Rush, Robinson, and Green when he gets healthy..............all have developed nicely under Hurtt and Norton.

We're just missing that game wrecking edge rusher. How is that their fault?

I've been thinking this is by design. Keep the linebackers clean, and deal with the fallout. Mixed results. Definitely no push in the pass rush.

We are doing fine run stopping wise, none could run on us, so the DL and LB are doing something right, unlike last year's.

Our secondary hasn't been helping the DL , or the DL hasn't been helping the DBs, I don't know enough football to diagnose ...

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toffee":26gtiu7a said:

We are doing fine run stopping wise, none could run on us, so the DL and LB are doing something right, unlike last year's.

Our secondary hasn't been helping the DL , or the DL hasn't been helping the DBs, I don't know enough football to diagnose ...

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I disagree. I see that our D-line can't get a decent push to even collapse the pocket, when it's most likely a passing play. Any QB in this lague can complete a pass when he has so much time to do it. However, they are really good (for some reason) breaking off the blocks to stop the run.

Our DL '19 wasn't any good stopping the run. DL '20 improved in that area .... Not sure what it would take to collapse the pocket some ...

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Sgt. Largent":239oy3bz said:

Not sure how you can say more effort and time was spend rebuilding the D-line than the O-line, when there's three new starters along the O-line, and they brought in what, like eight O-linemen in the off season, and used a 3rd round pick on Lewis.

I just think Pete and John misjudged the D-line free agent market, and didn't grab one of the top 10 free agents early like other teams, and by the time the dust settled all that was left was 3rd and 4th tier guys like Irvin and Mayowa.

So coaching? No. Hurtt did a fantastic job in Chicago, and we've actually seen some good development with the guys we've drafted. Collier, Mone, Rush, Robinson, and Green when he gets healthy..............all have developed nicely under Hurtt and Norton.

We're just missing that game wrecking edge rusher. How is that their fault?

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Irvin and Mayowa are 3rd and 4th tier? Umm, okay. Wrong opinion noted. :roll:

toffee":t4rcz4r0 said:

Our DL '19 wasn't any good stopping the run. DL '20 improved in that area .... Not sure what it would take to collapse the pocket some ...

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I'm not so sure that the Seahawks are great at stopping the run. Our offense has forced teams to be one dimensional to respond to our high flying offense.

GeekHawk":22g9zo9v said:

Sgt. Largent":22g9zo9v said:

Not sure how you can say more effort and time was spend rebuilding the D-line than the O-line, when there's three new starters along the O-line, and they brought in what, like eight O-linemen in the off season, and used a 3rd round pick on Lewis.

I just think Pete and John misjudged the D-line free agent market, and didn't grab one of the top 10 free agents early like other teams, and by the time the dust settled all that was left was 3rd and 4th tier guys like Irvin and Mayowa.

So coaching? No. Hurtt did a fantastic job in Chicago, and we've actually seen some good development with the guys we've drafted. Collier, Mone, Rush, Robinson, and Green when he gets healthy..............all have developed nicely under Hurtt and Norton.

We're just missing that game wrecking edge rusher. How is that their fault?

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Irvin and Mayowa are 3rd and 4th tier? Umm, okay. Wrong opinion noted. :roll:

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It's only a slight exaggeration. Mayowa has the ceiling of a 2nd-tier guy. He's trying, he's still got a motor, and he's produced some largely unnoticed pressures so far. But he's not finishing his sacks and he's not keeping any offensive coordinators up at night. He's nowhere near Avril, Bennett, or even Clinton McDonald level (and yes I know the positions were different, I'm talking about general level of influence).

Irvin was having even less impact before he was injured.

Pete and John thought the market would come to them and it didn't. Clowney was never going to come back here as long as he was going to spend another season double-teamed, and nobody else was going to come here as long as Clowney (or a similar player) wasn't here.

The one thing they're not being given credit for is the drafting of Darrell Taylor. But he got injured, a long line in a frustrating series of DL injury busts (going all the way back to the Super Bowl days with the drafting of Jesse Williams and Jordan Hill) for this front office.

The OL, on the other hand is giving Russ time to develop those bombs. Not on every down but often enough ... Even She'll seems to be getting better or he is getting help from TE what not?

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Stopping the run has been great and pressure rate has been better than I though it would be. So far the Dline is an improvement over 19' Pressure not great mind you...but better

Irvin getting hurt and not having Taylor blows.

Smellyman":2b6w50r0 said:

Stopping the run has been great and pressure rate has been better than I though it would be. So far the Dline is an improvement over 19' Pressure not great mind you...but better

Irvin getting hurt and not having Taylor blows.

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I am of the opinion that Pete had a two step approach:

A. Stop the run at all cost.
B. Build a great secondary to make passing risky.

Si far A worked, B hasn't.

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Robinson has looked like a nice pick so far. Hopefully Taylor gets on the field this year. Think the O-line has improved from what I’ve seen. We have Russ!!!!

hedgehawk":inp9uo8l said:

Robinson has looked like a nice pick so far. Hopefully Taylor gets on the field this year. Think the O-line has improved from what I’ve seen. We have Russ!!!!

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Pocic has been a surprise, he has been serviceable, may be more. Shell seems to settle down and improved a little compare to the first couple of games. Not sure of Jamarco's future as tackle, but he is good at being guard.

I have seen many plays where Russ actually had a pocket to wait in.

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Still reserving judgment on the OL. But very much liking what we're seeing.

Although I've stated before, that there were things Seattle could be doing outside of OL personnel to improve our OL performance. Avoiding game situations where down/distance demands a pass. That's one and something they are doing now.

Reducing the time to throw is another. That can be done by having a better WR corps (done), or having routes available to beat pressure by way of improving our short/middle.

To be honest, I think it's really a combination of 4 different things. Our OL is better personnel wise. The new starters (Pocic, Lewis, Shell) are playing superbly. Russell (by way of Carroll) is afforded better passing environment by not being forced to get all of first down yardage on 3rd down. Also, Russell is getting the ball out on rhythm much better. And much of that is due to the marked improvement in the WR group.

They're getting open faster. So he's getting the ball out before OL has a chance to get beat. OL is doing better empirically so Russell is able to allow deep passes to develop. Which loosens up the intermediate routes because we can/will attack deep. So really it's a confluence of everything making it all easier on each other.

From what I have seen even when the game is in "neutral situations" ie the opposition not trying to catch up, our run D has been good. I don't know if any stats break this down but we'd need running back stats from the first halfs against us. I agree the overall total rushing yards against will be lower in a game as teams have to abandon the run and pass to catch up in the 2nd half. But the ave / carry is low, which would not be affected by teams needing to pass.

Dallas definitely tried to get Zeke going in the first half and the D shut him down. Outside of one run on the first series Gurley did nothing either. Most of the Pats effective runs were Cam. I don't recall Michel or Burkhead doing much.

GeekHawk":1wnjppom said:

Sgt. Largent":1wnjppom said:

Not sure how you can say more effort and time was spend rebuilding the D-line than the O-line, when there's three new starters along the O-line, and they brought in what, like eight O-linemen in the off season, and used a 3rd round pick on Lewis.

I just think Pete and John misjudged the D-line free agent market, and didn't grab one of the top 10 free agents early like other teams, and by the time the dust settled all that was left was 3rd and 4th tier guys like Irvin and Mayowa.

So coaching? No. Hurtt did a fantastic job in Chicago, and we've actually seen some good development with the guys we've drafted. Collier, Mone, Rush, Robinson, and Green when he gets healthy..............all have developed nicely under Hurtt and Norton.

We're just missing that game wrecking edge rusher. How is that their fault?

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Irvin and Mayowa are 3rd and 4th tier? Umm, okay. Wrong opinion noted. :roll:

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Yes, if you look down the list of who was available back in the spring, you have to get past the 25th D-lineman before you get to Irvin and Mayowa.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents ... sive-line/

Sorry if that hurts your feelings, but it's true.

Russ has time to read his progressions before scramble mode, the WR's also get into their routes and can make a move and separate before they looked and he was already in scramble drill.