LJ Collier

Team what is your take on Collier.

PFF grades for what they are worth.
Overall 56.0 Run 49.6 Pass 61.9
Ironically better pass rushing than defending the run. Opposite of the team stats this season.

Hasn't looked terrible, but I'm still waiting to see flashes of a first round pick.

JAG, rotational player that doesn't really accel at anything.

Spin Doctor":wcsg4596 said:

JAG, rotational player that doesn't really accel at anything.

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Harsh, considering that he was a college all-star who spent last year recovering from an injury and has been flashing redshirt-rookie moments of brilliance this year.

I'd feel better about it if he were flashing more often, even if it wasn't brilliance.

Doesn’t look like a first rounder yet and he’s really old for his second year in the league. He’s been better this year but looks like a standard borderline starter in the league. I hope he proves me wrong. If he doesn’t this year it’s not happening.

Rat":2dnrffmm said:

Hasn't looked terrible, but I'm still waiting to see flashes of a first round pick.

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Would that be upper or lower 1st-round expectations? Or do you put all 1st-round picks in the same category of required high rookie performance over, say, the first pick in round 2?

Personally I think Collier's best role/future would be inside as a full-time rotational 3-technique DT off the bench who primarily comes in on passing downs as a rusher (ex: Clinton McDonald), but who can also occasionally provide some relief on base downs against spread-the-field teams (ex: Cardinals). To me he's not an every-down player, as he lacks a true carrying tool. He had one good year in college, as a 5th-year senior playing against mostly players who were 2-3 years younger than him, which almost always portends a low NFL ceiling.

Ad Hawk":2dp0788u said:

Rat":2dp0788u said:

Hasn't looked terrible, but I'm still waiting to see flashes of a first round pick.

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Would that be upper or lower 1st-round expectations? Or do you put all 1st-round picks in the same category of required high rookie performance over, say, the first pick in round 2?

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He hasn't looked like a second rounder either up until now. As a much older than average rookie he needs to produce early or historically these guys just don't pan out. Again though I hope he proves me wrong, I'm rooting for him. Seems like a good guy who is working hard this year.

Lamar King 2.0

To me he seems to be showing steady improvement and gets stronger the more he plays. It's far too soon to know whether he was a bad pick and we need to wait and see him play some more.

He's clearly a 5 tech type and a potential outside in pass rusher, he does show strength against the run.

Ad Hawk":1w9s843l said:

Rat":1w9s843l said:

Hasn't looked terrible, but I'm still waiting to see flashes of a first round pick.

Click to expand...

Would that be upper or lower 1st-round expectations? Or do you put all 1st-round picks in the same category of required high rookie performance over, say, the first pick in round 2?

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Why would I have an upper first round expectation? He was drafted 25th.

You're taking "first round pick" too literally. I'm just saying I would like to have seen more flashes of the caliber of play that his draft position warrants by now. I'm not writing him off or anything, but we're too thin at his position to accept an especially long learning curve. I don't think it's unreasonable to have hoped he would be further along than he is.

Another Pete and John head scratcher. As long as this front office is intact I'd prefer they trade away the first and second round picks for Proven talent moving forward.

I'm just happy he is actually contributing, the bar is low.

Fade":d5zb7feq said:

I'm just happy he is actually contributing, the bar is low.

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But is he? How much has he contributed?

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I mean he did get the game winning tackle....So he won a game for us, which is huge.

toffee":1bo2q544 said:

Fade":1bo2q544 said:

I'm just happy he is actually contributing, the bar is low.

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But is he? How much has he contributed?

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A lot. He stopped Cam Newton on the 1 yard line and won that game for us. That's only the obvious play, but he's been in there a lot, causing havoc.

Rat":knxixdy5 said:

Ad Hawk":knxixdy5 said:

Rat":knxixdy5 said:

Hasn't looked terrible, but I'm still waiting to see flashes of a first round pick.

Click to expand...

Would that be upper or lower 1st-round expectations? Or do you put all 1st-round picks in the same category of required high rookie performance over, say, the first pick in round 2?

Click to expand...

Why would I have an upper first round expectation? He was drafted 25th.

You're taking "first round pick" too literally. I'm just saying I would like to have seen more flashes of the caliber of play that his draft position warrants by now. I'm not writing him off or anything, but we're too thin at his position to accept an especially long learning curve. I don't think it's unreasonable to have hoped he would be further along than he is.

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I think it's true that everyone hopes he'll play at a high level, making impact plays. Pro-Bowler would be wonderful, wouldn't it? But actual expectations say more about the person holding them than about the player, GM/coaches, or where said player "should be."

There is usually an immediate difference between DE players at the very top of the bell curve (usually in the top 10-12 picks of the draft) and those who come later, as the curve rises. But for a #25 pick at DE who had a difficult year due to injury last year and a weak offseason? He has a lot of room to develop, and probably has the tools to do so. He's meeting expectations for many, and making some key plays already.

Dude has started 4 NFL games so far. Generally not looking awful should be the bar for 99% of rookies that aren't RB's.

Even first overall picks struggle in the first 4 games of their careers. Wilson, the most pro ready human I've ever seen as a rookie, was pretty awful his first 4 games. Many folks wanting him benched for Flynn.

Collier in his first 4 games has made one very big TFL, 2 QB hits, and a pass defensed. I think that's not too bad at this stage of his career.

You aren't going to find a ton of pro ready day one impact players in the draft. Most guys take minimum half season to adjust to the pro game. It's nice when they don't, but it's hardly common. He's not making glaring errors and is making a few plays. I'm Ok with that at this point.

ivotuk":4e0mz01j said:

toffee":4e0mz01j said:

Fade":4e0mz01j said:

I'm just happy he is actually contributing, the bar is low.

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But is he? How much has he contributed?

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A lot. He stopped Cam Newton on the 1 yard line and won that game for us. That's only the obvious play, but he's been in there a lot, causing havoc.

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He wasn't even the guy that really caused the havok, Adams blew up two guys, and ultimately squared up to make the tackle. It was an unremarkable play on his part, and other defensive lineman also were getting penetration. So far that is who Collier is. I'm sort of reminded of Tapp when watching him play.