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Brooks over Queen

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Brooks over Queen
Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:04 pm
  • I know Brooks is hurt but tell me again why Brooks was chosen over Queen who appears to be having an outstanding rookie campaign??
    Cyrus12
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:20 pm
  • Not a draft expert, but I believe due to better athletic profile and scheme / position flexibility.
    Osprey
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:31 pm
  • Queen had a couple big plays last week, that's for sure. And he has done well overall. I'm sure it doesn't hurt that the Ravens' D is top 2/3 and the Bengals struggled to do anything on offense all game.

    Jury won't be in with the final grades for a while yet.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:02 pm
  • No idea. I felt Queen was a far better prospect coming out and was excited he dropped to us. Brooks I felt was worth a 2nd round flier and no more. Queen demonstrated game altering playmaking ability in college in ways that Brooks did not. And Queen was excellent in space and coverage as an OLB. Brooks was more of a middle linebacker prospect, although a high caliber one.

    The only reason I could fathom why we took Brooks was that we had internal concerns about Wagner in 2021/22. Namely the expectation that his play would start to degrade naturally as it had appeared to begin over the course of 2019. In that respect, Brooks would be a much more valuable talent as a medium term/long term roster answer.

    Queen was/still is a splash play kind of linebacker. Brooks was more of a meat and potatoes kind of tackling machine, with a demonstrated high football IQ. Queen would have been ill suited for that kind of role here. So I think team need/role played the largest part of that.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:43 pm
  • Cyrus12 wrote:I know Brooks is hurt but tell me again why Brooks was chosen over Queen who appears to be having an outstanding rookie campaign??


    Because John and Pete liked Brooks better. Could have been the interview. Could have been something they saw on film. Who knows? Maybe send a letter the John Schneider and ask him. The rest of us have no clue.

    But remember: Draft = Crap shoot. I know a ton of people that wanted us to draft Michael Kendricks over Bobby Wagner in 2012. No one questioning that decision now, are they?

    Until someone gets a crystal ball that predicts injury risk and a mind reader that can see into a player's motivation, the draft will always be a lottery. Especially after the top 15 picks.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:51 pm
  • If Queen was on the Hawks do you honestly think Queen would displace Wagner or KJ ? He'd more than likely get as much play time on the Seahawks as Brooks has gotten. Who knows if he'd have got injured w/Seattle as Brooks did?
    Who did Queen displace at Balt.? Maybe his path to play was easier there than it would have been at Seattle.
    Last edited by TreeRon on Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:52 pm
  • Cyrus12 wrote:I know Brooks is hurt but tell me again why Brooks was chosen over Queen who appears to be having an outstanding rookie campaign??


    Queen is actually playing fairly badly. He's had a few flash plays, but in between, he's been highly inconsistent and fairly lost at points.

    39.5 PFF grade. Was in the 20s prior to this past game.

    Queen wouldn't be starting here.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:55 pm
  • Mad Dog wrote:
    Cyrus12 wrote:I know Brooks is hurt but tell me again why Brooks was chosen over Queen who appears to be having an outstanding rookie campaign??


    Because John and Pete liked Brooks better. Could have been the interview. Could have been something they saw on film. Who knows? Maybe send a letter the John Schneider and ask him. The rest of us have no clue.

    But remember: Draft = Crap shoot. I know a ton of people that wanted us to draft Michael Kendricks over Bobby Wagner in 2012. No one questioning that decision now, are they?

    Until someone gets a crystal ball that predicts injury risk and a mind reader that can see into a player's motivation, the draft will always be a lottery. Especially after the top 15 picks.

    Whenever someone is defending this teams drafts, they always go back to 2012 to find a positive. Since then the only true star drafted is DK. This team has drafted poorly even when you consider their less that great draft position. They have also made a lot of costly BAD trades. (Harvin, S. Richardson, J. Graham). RW has been their saving grace.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:01 pm
  • HawkerD wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:
    Cyrus12 wrote:I know Brooks is hurt but tell me again why Brooks was chosen over Queen who appears to be having an outstanding rookie campaign??


    Because John and Pete liked Brooks better. Could have been the interview. Could have been something they saw on film. Who knows? Maybe send a letter the John Schneider and ask him. The rest of us have no clue.

    But remember: Draft = Crap shoot. I know a ton of people that wanted us to draft Michael Kendricks over Bobby Wagner in 2012. No one questioning that decision now, are they?

    Until someone gets a crystal ball that predicts injury risk and a mind reader that can see into a player's motivation, the draft will always be a lottery. Especially after the top 15 picks.

    Whenever someone is defending this teams drafts, they always go back to 2012 to find a positive. Since then the only true star drafted is DK. This team has drafted poorly even when you consider their less that great draft position. They have also made a lot of costly BAD trades. (Harvin, S. Richardson, J. Graham). RW has been their saving grace.


    How about those 95' Ms!
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:06 pm
  • HawkerD wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:
    Cyrus12 wrote:I know Brooks is hurt but tell me again why Brooks was chosen over Queen who appears to be having an outstanding rookie campaign??


    Because John and Pete liked Brooks better. Could have been the interview. Could have been something they saw on film. Who knows? Maybe send a letter the John Schneider and ask him. The rest of us have no clue.

    But remember: Draft = Crap shoot. I know a ton of people that wanted us to draft Michael Kendricks over Bobby Wagner in 2012. No one questioning that decision now, are they?

    Until someone gets a crystal ball that predicts injury risk and a mind reader that can see into a player's motivation, the draft will always be a lottery. Especially after the top 15 picks.

    Whenever someone is defending this teams drafts, they always go back to 2012 to find a positive. Since then the only true star drafted is DK. This team has drafted poorly even when you consider their less that great draft position. They have also made a lot of costly BAD trades. (Harvin, S. Richardson, J. Graham). RW has been their saving grace.


    2019 was a fine draft. Collier is coming into his own in his first healthy action in the league, Blair was blossoming into his nickel role prior to injury, Metcalf is a bona fide star. Barton and Homer are fine role players, the former of which is steadily improving, Burr-Kirven is a solid special teamer, and Ugo Amadi is both a fantastic special teamer and playing very good defense. It's looking like a pretty damn good draft to me.

    As for 2020, we look to have two starting caliber players in Alton Robinson and a solid starter in Damien Lewis. Jury is still out on Brooks and Taylor, the first two guys picked. Freddie Swain is developing into a solid receiving option, as well.

    Their recent drafts have not been horrible at all. They're getting some solid players. Sure, it ain't 2010 or 2012, but these drafts may continue to look better as time goes on. 2019 certainly is.

    It's very, very hard to sustain success in the NFL - even with a great quarterback. Not every draft can reasonably be expected to yield true blue chips, especially with late picks. This front office has done a fantastic job keeping a playoff caliber team, and I can't complain about the past 2 drafts.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:24 pm
  • Lots of teams are asking themselves the same question over Metcalf

    It is weird sometimes some guys that the fans hear about slips and turns into great players. We then hear their name over and over again

    We don't hear about all the other guys that had names thrown out there, fans wanted and they failed.

    You can't draw conclusion about not drafting one guy when there are ten names on the list that people wanted at that time and most of them probably didn't pan out
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:57 am
  • mikeak wrote:Lots of teams are asking themselves the same question over Metcalf

    It is weird sometimes some guys that the fans hear about slips and turns into great players. We then hear their name over and over again

    We don't hear about all the other guys that had names thrown out there, fans wanted and they failed.

    You can't draw conclusion about not drafting one guy when there are ten names on the list that people wanted at that time and most of them probably didn't pan out


    Yeah Seattle has a way of making career back ups, or guys that have one skill set look like all pros....
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:52 am
  • 5 games in, might want to pump the brakes a little bit. Let's actually see Brooks on the field before branding it a crap draft pick.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:59 am
  • IIRC the Ravens themselves had Brooks rated over Queen.

    I did like Queen a lot though; it was difficult to watch the CFP and not think he was a star in the making. Insane intangibles and athleticism.

    Obviously too early to say Queen will definitely be better, but I can’t help thinking the Ravens hit yet another home run. Kind of hard to look at their draft record and call the draft a complete crapshoot.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:24 am
  • allegedly. Most people had Queen higher. I guess time will tell. I think Brooks is going to be very good and I say that still thinking he was a very odd pick at that spot considering our team needs, value added etc. It doesn't make any sense to me.
    austinslater25
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:34 am
  • Cyrus12 wrote:I know Brooks is hurt but tell me again why Brooks was chosen over Queen who appears to be having an outstanding rookie campaign??


    Queen has been graded very poorly for most of the season, and at 230lbs wouldn't be a future MLB in Seattle. For this season, he wouldn't see the field much behind Bobby and KJ.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:13 am
  • What was our biggest problem on defense in 2019? Run defense. Add to that, Kyler Murray, and it was a huge weakness.

    Queen is on a very good defense, and he's allowed to roam free and do clean up work. Brooks is fast, big, and a run stopper. I don't think Queen could stand up to that kind of abuse for very long, let alone take on run blockers or running backs.

    Queen is also on a good offensive team that has been playing with big leads against crappy teams. Any defensive player will look good there. Look at his stats vs crappy teams, then his stats vs KC. Big difference.

    Patrick has played about 70% of the snaps each game, and gotten all of his stats against garbage teams. Look at who they've played, and the scores:

    Cincinati 27-3

    Washington 31-17

    Houston 33-16

    Cleveland 38-6

    Kansas City 20-34

    Then there's the lack of a offseason where Seattle wanted players with starting experience.

    Patrick Queen, 1 year. Jordyn Brooks, 4 years.

    I know it's interesting to take one's own ideas on the draft, and look for perceived mistakes by the Front Office, but you can't legitimately measure players against each other 5 games in to their rookie seasons.

    For example, look at all of the so called "QBs playing at an MVP Level!" after games 2,3 and 4 this year. Yet at the end, there will only be one, Russell Wilson. When all is said and done, the Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson's, Dak Prescott's, and Josh Allen's of the world will fall to the side.

    Let's give it some time, and see how our rookie does when his defense is playing with a big lead. Even then, I expect Pete Carroll will "protect" him and not put too much on his plate. One more thing, I think Jordyn will be playing a different game than Patrick. Different responsibilities, and different positioning.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:42 am
  • No doubt. Way too much dwelling on what we don't have and/or a draft pick for another team.
    I prefer to concentrate on Hawks players.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:46 am
  • Until Pete realizes his Zone doesn't work with this current roster it really doesn't matter. Currently on pace to be the worst defense statistically ever. Getting ran on with ease last week was an eye opener. Just bad everwhere. Crazy to witness on a PC team with so many great years on that side of the ball.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:51 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:5 games in, might want to pump the brakes a little bit. Let's actually see Brooks on the field before branding it a crap draft pick.


    This...
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:00 pm
  • Brooks' style per a Carroll defense is more suited for Seattle schemes.

    Brooks is thought of as a tackling machine and Carroll's defense is built with linebackers needing to tackle at the second level.

    Brooks has the speed and time at various linebacker positions that Seattle covets in case/when Wagner and Wright leaves to replace them.

    Queen simply per Carroll's determination, did not fit the schemes and strategies that Seattle likes to play.

    It is also thought that Queen had a single good year at LSU and Brooks had years of "good" years according to the Seattle scouts.

    That is why Seattle drafted Brooks and not Queen.

    Its difficult NOT to compare them but in terms of Seattle's defense vs Baltimore's defense schemes, it's almost an apples and oranges comparison.

    Maybe Queen would have looked great in Seattle's scheme? Maybe Queen wouldn't have.

    But from my understanding, the listed above justification I had mentioned is why Seattle drafted Brooks over Queen.

    Any additional insider take/thoughts are welcomed.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:32 pm
  • Queen starts and gets 50 snaps per game. Brooks doesn't start and gets 10 snaps per game.

    Queen would not start here either. He is a slower, greener version of Shaquem Griffin.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:36 pm
  • Own The West wrote:Queen would not start here either. He is a slower, greener version of Shaquem Griffin.


    No way. Patrick Queen is an amazing linebacker who is off to a great start.
    This statement is so far off the rails I hope you're joking.
    Shaquem has a great heart and a great story and I wish him nothing but the best. But he's nowhere close to Queen. We saw what Shaquem did when he started vs Denver. Phillip Lindsey made him look slow and lost. I can't even right now. No. No.

    And as far as Brooks goes, I didn't like the pick now and I like it less and less as the season goes on. But the jury is still out and will remain hopeful. I would rather either of them over Barton imo
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:14 pm
  • He just got named AFC defensive player of the week and almost everyone in the scouting community had him rated higher than Brooks. The way we’ve drafted the past few years it’s hard to cut them some slack on this one.
    austinslater25
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:33 pm
  • Jordan Brooks was drafted to be the eventual Bobby Wagner replacement long term at Mike. Queen is too small for that spot.

    2021 - 31 yrs old - 17.15M cap number
    2022 - 32 yrs old - 20.35M cap number

    Bobby isn't making it to 2022. He might not even make it to 2021. Those cap numbers are insanely high for an aging linebacker.

    Short term, Brooks was drafted as insurance just in case KJ fell off at Will, or if they had an injury at Sam.

    Talent wise Brooks is a 1st rd talent, but at a position where the pundits question whether it's worth picking in the 1st rd in a passing league. Sort of like Penny, watch Penny run and it's obvious at that size and speed he is a 1st round talent, but also too at a position people question if its worth spending a 1st round pick on.

    Seattle loves to overcorrect from their prior mistakes. After drafting Malik McDowell they made sure to draft all goody2shoes the following draft. Last year they reached for a DE they had no business picking in the 1st rd, but had a need there. So this year they wanted to make sure they drafted talent first (need second). Brooks was the 2nd backer off of the board, they essentially had their pick of the litter. Collier the year prior was like the 10th DE off of the board or something insane like that.

    I think both Brooks and Queen are going to be good players. I don't see either being busts.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:09 pm
  • Brooks has a bigger frame and is a long term play. Agree with Fade that he is Bobby's eventual replacement. Queen is probably going to be a great WLB but will likely not have the versatility we were targeting. Unfortunately this season having an All Rookie WLB could be the difference between NFCCG and SB Champ. Only time will tell.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:19 am
  • I'm on the Jordyn Brooks bandwagon and I think Pete and John absolutely got this one right. Fade and Wenhawk have pretty well nailed it.

    Queen could be a poor man's Jamal Adams. Wait, that would still be pretty good. I'll still take Brooks. The Hawks got this one right, for what Seattle needs. Nothing against Queen. Brooks is a little stouter, and more likely to hold up for a few more years.

    Queen got AFC Defensive Player of the Week? Guess who else was AFC Defensive Player of the Week? Yup, our own Brian Bosworth, in week 15 of his Rookie Year. Boz also had 4 sacks that year, would have been the Seahawks 2019 team sack leader. Boz's body failed him in the NFL. Maybe Queen will be highly durable in the NFL; I'd roll the dice on Brooks, in preference.

    We need Brooks' speed to chase and catch Kyler Murray, Deebo Samuel, and all those speedy Rams players. Our D was getting old and slow. Pete and John got DK right, and they got Brooks right. Brooks is actually faster than his combine times showed, due to timing of injuries and recovery. When Brooks chases and catches Kyler Murray, stopping a 20-yard gain, you'll know it was the right choice. When 49ers Deebo Samuel does that end-around play, and Brooks tackles Deebo from behind to keep it to a 2 yard gain, instead of 20, you'll know it was the right choice.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:31 pm
  • It’s been 5 games.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:14 pm
  • Brooks has 1 TACKLE as a Seahawk so far. 1. To act like you have ANY argument that he is better than Queen TODAY is just disingenuous. Do you have HOPE? Sure. But as of today Queen has performed and Brooks has not. Tomorrow? Who knows, Pete is great at Picking players that get injured before or during their rookie seasons though.
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Re: Brooks over Queen
Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:43 pm
  • JayhawkMike wrote:Brooks has 1 TACKLE as a Seahawk so far. 1. To act like you have ANY argument that he is better than Queen TODAY is just disingenuous. Do you have HOPE? Sure. But as of today Queen has performed and Brooks has not. Tomorrow? Who knows, Pete is great at Picking players that get injured before or during their rookie seasons though.


    You sure are beating the hell out of that strawman. The strawman'll have to throw in the towel eventually, right?

    No one is comparing their current stat sheets and saying Brooks has the more impressive statistics so far. What we are saying is that comparing stat sheets 5 games in for vastly different players with vastly different situations and using that comparison to say a pick was a mistake is asinine.

    Seriously, though. Please quote a single example of anyone making the argument that you're referring to as "disingenious." Point out a single poster saying Brooks is statistically performing better than Queen.
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