Imagine if all three are healthy....

Seahawkfan80 wrote:https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=3+headed+dragon&fr=chr-yo_gc&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fcdnb.artstation.com%2Fp%2Fmarketplace%2Fpresentation_assets%2F000%2F213%2F099%2Flarge%2Ffile.jpg%3F1570288788#id=0&iurl=https%3A%2F%2Fcdnb.artstation.com%2Fp%2Fmarketplace%2Fpresentation_assets%2F000%2F213%2F099%2Flarge%2Ffile.jpg%3F1570288788&action=click

No way,smh,cant even imagine that...!!!!
Other teams be like...wwwhhhaaaaaattt

I really like the way Penny runs it's a complement to the way Carson runs....the three headed monster in Carson , Penny and Hyde is nothing short of a awesome run attack and I can't wait to see these guys shred the best D's in the playoffs...

LTH

It always amazes me that people add Penny to lists like this and lists of good draft picks. He is not good. Heck, Deejay has 3 total TDs and Penny only has 5.

We should have picked the MUCH higher rated CHUBB! Huge miss

JayhawkMike wrote:It always amazes me that people add Penny to lists like this and lists of good draft picks. He is not good. Heck, Deejay has 3 total TDs and Penny only has 5.

We should have picked the MUCH higher rated CHUBB! Huge miss

Penny's not good? This is a stupid post. Continuing to judge his play or value to the team based on his draft position, or on who was taken after him, rather than his actual play, is emotionally driven and irrational.

Penny averaged nearly 6 ypc last year, for f^c#'s sake. And he was on an absolute tear before he got hurt. He put up 236 yards and 3 TDs on 29 carries and 6 targets against Philly and Minny.

The dude is an explosive running back with a knack for huge plays. Getting him back makes this team much, much better. Full stop.

Anyone know when Penny will be back?

JayhawkMike wrote:It always amazes me that people add Penny to lists like this and lists of good draft picks. He is not good. Heck, Deejay has 3 total TDs and Penny only has 5.

We should have picked the MUCH higher rated CHUBB! Huge miss

Good of you to make that hindsight call, but Penny would be fine if he could stay healthy. He's clearly quite good when on the field. Interestingly, he was the smart medical pick at the time. Had his body held up like it did in college, he'd be one of the biggest threats on the offense. To insinuate the Penny isn't obviously a talented rusher when on the field is just... wrong. I question whether you were watching him last year.

Nick Chubb blew his knee out horribly in college, and hurt it again this year.

The REAL criticism here is that they picked a running back in the first round, which is almost always a stupid move. Regardless of how it worked out, it'd be pretty silly to draft a running back who suffered a naaasty knee injury in his college play with a high pick.

JayhawkMike wrote:It always amazes me that people add Penny to lists like this and lists of good draft picks. He is not good. Heck, Deejay has 3 total TDs and Penny only has 5.

We should have picked the MUCH higher rated CHUBB! Huge miss

You must be a Fantasy player and not really know anything about real Football, Penny had a problem with weight and work ethic, he was it in San Diego, never had to really put in the extra time to get his Body right, he was that much better then most others on the field day to day.

Like many players the NFL is a wake up call, depending on the mental make up of a person it can break many and they disappear or they step up. Penny was injured out of the gate and then had nagging stuff. When he did get on the field he had a few sparks but nothing you could rely on.

Off season he was able to get with Carson and trained to re shape his body, he and Carson were dominating, this was doing two things, giving other teams different looks to have to defend as well as keeping both backs fresh.

The knee injury was bad luck, the only real question is can he get his speed back and his mentality that he had right before he was hurt.

We were looking at two 1000 yard backs the way we were rolling at that time.

oldhawkfan wrote:Anyone know when Penny will be back?

he should be back for the next game..


LTH

Everything is easier in hindsight. Chubbs a great back. But if you were to ask anyone in that year's predraft, "Who would be injured first?", everyone would've guessed Chubb.

Penny was starting to flash. If he comes back the way he was starting to play, you'll be eating those words. I had to eat crow as well as I was never high on the pick. His last few games proved me completely wrong.

Wish him well. He's a Seahawk!!

And by the way...while I like DJ Dallas and think he has potential, he's nowhere near Penny's level. Not even close. Maybe he'll get there but...a healthy Penny doing what he was doing will compete for the #1 spot. Chris Carson knows this and was/is beyond supportive. Even called for subs during games to get Penny a TD and/or playing time.

Anxious to see how he recovered!!!

I’ve been consistent since draft night. Penny was a bad pick. First, we picked him way higher than we should have meaning we wasted a lot of draft capital on him. Second, we were worried about possibly replacing Carson and we pick a 3rd down around the edge or pass catcher to replace a thumper instead of a proven thumper in Chubb? Stupid move. I do acknowledge the injury issue with Chubb but can point to plenty of injured draft picks we have made. And last, Penny has TWO good games before injury. TWO. As a first rounder? His other games were not good.

Look at this game log without Penny’s name attached and tell me you can’t get this with an UDFA.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PennRa00/gamelog/2019/advanced/

“But, but but he had two good games before injury” and the 2 rushing yards his previous game? Or the 12 rushing yards the game before?

Oh and the predictable idiot always calling people’s opinions invalid if they do fantasy football. I never have and they probably know a helluva lot more than you.

JayhawkMike wrote:I’ve been consistent since draft night. Penny was a bad pick. First, we picked him way higher than we should have meaning we wasted a lot of draft capital on him. Second, we were worried about possibly replacing Carson and we pick a 3rd down around the edge or pass catcher to replace a thumper instead of a proven thumper in Chubb? Stupid move. I do acknowledge the injury issue with Chubb but can point to plenty of injured draft picks we have made. And last, Penny has TWO good games before injury. TWO. As a first rounder? His other games were not good.

Look at this game log without Penny’s name attached and tell me you can’t get this with an UDFA.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PennRa00/gamelog/2019/advanced/

“But, but but he had two good games before injury” and the 2 rushing yards his previous game? Or the 12 rushing yards the game before?

Oh and the predictable idiot always calling people’s opinions invalid if they do fantasy football. I never have and they probably know a helluva lot more than you.

This actually shows a fairly convincing portrait of him getting increasingly good as he gets more carries in a game.

Either way, drafting any running back in the first round is silly.

But drafting one who had a gruesome knee injury in college with your first pick is dumb. You wanna criticize the McDowell pick so much because of the risk involved, yet you fail to see how it would've been almost arrogant to draft a running back with long-term health concerns in the first round?

No one has a crystal ball, but its usually a fairly safe bet to skip over the rusher whose knee self-destructed.

RBs are not as plug and play as many like to think. One rb can be successful in one offense and downright bad in another. Example - Eddie Lacy, did decent with the Packers but failed here. Alex Collins basically run out of town here but became a 1000 yard rusher in Baltimore. Carlos Hyde - couldn't stick with 49ers, Browns, Jax, and Chiefs but ran for 1000 yards with Houston. Doing well so far here.

I'm not certain that if the Seahawks picked Chubb, he would have even beaten out Carson here. Carson took the drafting of Penny as a message and worked his tail off to win the position. Credit to Carson for that. Carson became a top 10 back in the process (when he's healthy).

I’m okay on the McDowell pick as to where he was drafted compared to where he should have been drafted with the information at the time. I think there were red flags and the results were as bad as could be but it’s just part of a list of bad results.

Penny over Chubb is my biggest issue with drafting. Brooks over Queen is up there and Collier over another position of need that hadn’t been picked clean at the time. Collier has shown some life and Brooks is a rookie so time will tell. But To me the Penny over Chubb debate is over. What league exec today would trade Chubb for Penny? Absolutely zero. How many fans on this board would? A couple it looks like. That is quite telling.

JayhawkMike wrote:I’m okay on the McDowell pick as to where he was drafted compared to where he should have been drafted with the information at the time. I think there were red flags and the results were as bad as could be but it’s just part of a list of bad results.

Penny over Chubb is my biggest issue with drafting. Brooks over Queen is up there and Collier over another position of need that hadn’t been picked clean at the time. Collier has shown some life and Brooks is a rookie so time will tell. But To me the Penny over Chubb debate is over. What league exec today would trade Chubb for Penny? Absolutely zero. How many fans on this board would? A couple it looks like. That is quite telling.

No one here would keep Penny over Chubb, but its bad process to waste picks on first round running backs with bright red flags sticking out of their ACL. I honestly don't care how it turned out - Cleveland has been extremely fortunate so far with Chubb's health, whereas Seattle has been quite unfortunate with a player who had squeaky clean medicals coming into the league. It happens.

I think Penny is extremely talented, and would be capable of being the premier back... if he could stay healthy.


Also, off topic, but to respond to your other posted opinions: Collier is playing pretty well now that he's healthy, and Patrick Queen is absolutely terrible. TRASH. If Patrick Queen were Seattle's first pick, you'd be shredding him and the FO a new one. He's on the most linebacker friendly franchise in the league and still is busting coverages left and right like a lost puppy looking for its owner.

PFF grade under 30. Clearly, they're seeing what everyone else who has actually watched him is seeing. He's one of, if not THE, worst linebacker in the league so far.

Time will tell on Queen and Brooks. I could be wrong. But again, Queen was a position of need and BPA at the time we drafted Brooks.

Legit curious why the pundits are liking Queen so much if his pff is so bad?

JayhawkMike wrote:Time will tell on Queen and Brooks. I could be wrong. But again, Queen was a position of need and BPA at the time we drafted Brooks.

Legit curious why the pundits are liking Queen so much if his pff is so bad?

As always, time will tell on ALL draft selections. But no one really KNOWS that going in.
Pundits are, like amateur draft geniuses (and me), stubbornly loyal to THEIR CHOICES.

JayhawkMike wrote:Time will tell on Queen and Brooks. I could be wrong. But again, Queen was a position of need and BPA at the time we drafted Brooks.

Legit curious why the pundits are liking Queen so much if his pff is so bad?

Couple of things:

Firstly, name recognition from LSU. Secondly, he's a Ravens linebacker, so is automatically assumed to be good.

He scored a touchdown by picking up a fumble he didn't cause and running unobstructed to the endzone. This was on every highlight reel. All he did was pick up the ball that Marlon stripped and ran 50 yards, untouched by a Bengal.

Other than that, he's caused 2 forced fumbles. One was simply a ball Burrow dropped after Queen hit him from behind. The other was a strip of Nick Chubb, which was actually pretty good.

Between those splash plays, the majority of which took place against Cincinnati in early October, he has been absolute trash, being absolutely abused in coverage and benched at multiple points.

Pundits suck, and you know it. They look at simple stat sheets and highlights and create narratives out of it.

LTH wrote:

oldhawkfan wrote:Anyone know when Penny will be back?

he should be back for the next game..


LTH

Pete said it should be next game, but if not for sure the game after that.

nanomoz wrote:

JayhawkMike wrote:It always amazes me that people add Penny to lists like this and lists of good draft picks. He is not good. Heck, Deejay has 3 total TDs and Penny only has 5.

We should have picked the MUCH higher rated CHUBB! Huge miss

Penny's not good? This is a stupid post. Continuing to judge his play or value to the team based on his draft position, or on who was taken after him, rather than his actual play, is emotionally driven and irrational.

Penny averaged nearly 6 ypc last year, for f^c#'s sake. And he was on an absolute tear before he got hurt. He put up 236 yards and 3 TDs on 29 carries and 6 targets against Philly and Minny.

The dude is an explosive running back with a knack for huge plays. Getting him back makes this team much, much better. Full stop.

Totally agree..

How about an objective definition of “good”?

Out of that draft we have (career)
Saquan Barkley - early first round 2344 yds and 17 TDs
Sony Michel 2016 yds and 14 TDs
Nick Chubb - 2951 yards and 21 TDs
Karryon Johnson - 1156 yds and 10 tds
Ronald Jones Jr. - 1498 yds and 12 TDs
Royce Freeman - 1096 yards and 8 TDs
Nyhein Hines - 1010 yds and 6 TDs

Rashad Penny- 789 yds and 5 TDs.

Not listed - Derrida Guice released after r@p* allegation

Awesome pick? Not at all. If you have something more Substantive than “ he looked good for a game or two before he was injured” let me know.

He is a Bust. I expect nothing this year as not only is he coming off injury but has a history of not caring enough to be in shape when he is supposed to be.

Penny is a 3rd round quality pick chosen in the first round performing like a 5th round pick.

JayhawkMike wrote:How about an objective definition of “good”?

Out of that draft we have (career)
Saquan Barkley - early first round 2344 yds and 17 TDs
Sony Michel 2016 yds and 14 TDs
Nick Chubb - 2951 yards and 21 TDs
Karryon Johnson - 1156 yds and 10 tds
Ronald Jones Jr. - 1498 yds and 12 TDs
Royce Freeman - 1096 yards and 8 TDs
Nyhein Hines - 1010 yds and 6 TDs

Rashad Penny- 789 yds and 5 TDs.

Not listed - Derrida Guice released after r@p* allegation

Awesome pick? Not at all. If you have something more Substantive than “ he looked good for a game or two before he was injured” let me know.

He is a Bust. I expect nothing this year as not only is he coming off injury but has a history of not caring enough to be in shape when he is supposed to be.

Penny is a 3rd round quality pick chosen in the first round performing like a 5th round pick.

You conveniently left out the number of carries per player. Because had you included that it would show that Penny had considerable less carries than most of those players. If he had the same number of carries based on his avg you he would right there with the rest of that pack. Penny only had 150 carries.

hawkfan68 wrote:

JayhawkMike wrote:How about an objective definition of “good”?

Out of that draft we have (career)
Saquan Barkley - early first round 2344 yds and 17 TDs
Sony Michel 2016 yds and 14 TDs
Nick Chubb - 2951 yards and 21 TDs
Karryon Johnson - 1156 yds and 10 tds
Ronald Jones Jr. - 1498 yds and 12 TDs
Royce Freeman - 1096 yards and 8 TDs
Nyhein Hines - 1010 yds and 6 TDs

Rashad Penny- 789 yds and 5 TDs.

Not listed - Derrida Guice released after r@p* allegation

Awesome pick? Not at all. If you have something more Substantive than “ he looked good for a game or two before he was injured” let me know.

He is a Bust. I expect nothing this year as not only is he coming off injury but has a history of not caring enough to be in shape when he is supposed to be.

Penny is a 3rd round quality pick chosen in the first round performing like a 5th round pick.

You conveniently left out the number of carries per player. Because had you included that it would show that Penny had considerable less carries than most of those players. If he had the same number of carries based on his avg you he would right there with the rest of that pack. Penny only had 150 carries.

150 vs Sony Michael's 482.

Not a great career output . Actually rather poor.

JayhawkMike wrote:It always amazes me that people add Penny to lists like this and lists of good draft picks. He is not good. Heck, Deejay has 3 total TDs and Penny only has 5.

We should have picked the MUCH higher rated CHUBB! Huge miss

This year I would’ve been really happy with Dobbins also

Elemas wrote:Imagine if all three are healthy....

This is happening!!!

JayhawkMike wrote:Time will tell on Queen and Brooks. I could be wrong. But again, Queen was a position of need and BPA at the time we drafted Brooks.

Legit curious why the pundits are liking Queen so much if his pff is so bad?

I am also. Brooks hasn’t been amazing but definitely has not been bad. Maybe would’ve been nice to get him in the 2nd and got a pass rusher with the 1st but he has not been bad. He has speed that is lacking now with Bobby and KJ. I think he could end up being really good. Personally I haven’t felt any sort of regret once Brooks started playing.

You also have to look at it from another perspective, Penny was going to be a platoon back, that was what we were shooting for, we had a injured Carson and wanted insurance, we also were looking at the platoon situation and a different look back.

He was never going to get 500 carries a season under the original concept.

Wenhawk wrote:

LTH wrote:

oldhawkfan wrote:Anyone know when Penny will be back?

he should be back for the next game..


LTH

Pete said it should be next game, but if not for sure the game after that.

I’ll believe it when he’s moved to the active roster

chris98251 wrote:You also have to look at it from another perspective, Penny was going to be a platoon back, that was what we were shooting for, we had a injured Carson and wanted insurance, we also were looking at the platoon situation and a different look back.

He was never going to get 500 carries a season under the original concept.

^this.
Almost any of the other backs listed in this thread would have been used roughly the same way. Any of them would have had to beat out Carson. When Penny was drafted Carson was coming off a horrible injury with no idea whether or not he would contribute that season.

Mark this post...I used to be on the other side too. I know where you're coming from.

But.....

Penny's going to show out in this offense. I 100% believe that.

And I used to be adamant about calling him a bust.

We should all hope that he tears it up on his return.

Good problem to possibly have. 3 Solid backs, and Cason is VERY good.
You're right, we not only should want Penny to ball out, we need the guy. An extra versatile RB with fresh legs? Yes please...…
It's not about who's right or wrong about Penny, it's the fact that we have seen what he can do when he's healthy.
Sure he hasn't lived up to the high draft pick, but that doesn't mean he's even close to being done.

I hate it when good OP's go off the rails like this one.

I LOVE the thought of Carson, Penny, and Hyde as a backfield triumvirate. Death to defenses.

In this day and age nearly every RB gets hurt at some point in the season. To worry about this back or that back is just stupid.

The trick is to have at least 3-4 good runners for the position. We have that now. The odds of losing both Carson and Hyde to injury that close are together was very low. Just bad luck. Now add in Penny and we should be in great shape down the stretch.

I don't care about next year at all. We are in the hunt this year and will soon have three very capable backs to help carry the rock. That's a good sign!

No doubt, depth is extremely important. Especially in 2020......

Palmegranite wrote:

hawkfan68 wrote:

JayhawkMike wrote:How about an objective definition of “good”?

Out of that draft we have (career)
Sony Michel 2016 yds and 14 TDs
Rashad Penny- 789 yds and 5 TDs.

You conveniently left out the number of carries per player. Because had you included that it would show that Penny had considerable less carries than most of those players. If he had the same number of carries based on his avg you he would right there with the rest of that pack. Penny only had 150 carries.

150 vs Sony Michael's 482.

Not a great career output . Actually rather poor.

Not sure where you were going with that, but 482/150 = 3.2; 3.2 x 789 = 2,524; 3.2 x 5 = 16.

2524 yds and 16 TDs > 2016 yds and 14 TDs

Dude's not bad. Just been hurt.

For comparison, Carson is 640 for 2912 and 19 TDs (+6 TD receiving if that's in your stats).

JayhawkMike wrote:How about an objective definition of “good”?

Out of that draft we have (career)
Saquan Barkley - early first round 2344 yds and 17 TDs
Sony Michel 2016 yds and 14 TDs
Nick Chubb - 2951 yards and 21 TDs
Karryon Johnson - 1156 yds and 10 tds
Ronald Jones Jr. - 1498 yds and 12 TDs
Royce Freeman - 1096 yards and 8 TDs
Nyhein Hines - 1010 yds and 6 TDs

Rashad Penny- 789 yds and 5 TDs.

Not listed - Derrida Guice released after r@p* allegation

Awesome pick? Not at all. If you have something more Substantive than “ he looked good for a game or two before he was injured” let me know.

He is a Bust. I expect nothing this year as not only is he coming off injury but has a history of not caring enough to be in shape when he is supposed to be.

Penny is a 3rd round quality pick chosen in the first round performing like a 5th round pick.

Objectively, he HAS been good when he plays. Like, VERY good.

His total added value is low due to injuries, and I'd agree that he's ended up being a bad pick due to his total added value and the fact that he's playing a low value position anyway.

Both viewpoints are correct. Rashaad Penny has comparable or better talent than most of the running backs you listed, but injuries have derailed him to the point where his lack of availability has rendered him an inconsequential factor in the success of the offense and the team overall.

I'm unwilling to blame the front office for his injuries. They clearly hit on his talent, and he was the opposite of a medical red flag coming into the league. The real mistake was picking a running back to begin with, and I do have a big problem with them doing that.

EDIT: Keeping the above in mind, it's totally valid to be excited about him coming back. He's a huge threat when he's on the field. Having that boost down the stretch is an exciting proposition.

SoulfishHawk wrote:Good problem to possibly have. 3 Solid backs, and Cason is VERY good.
You're right, we not only should want Penny to ball out, we need the guy. An extra versatile RB with fresh legs? Yes please...…
It's not about who's right or wrong about Penny, it's the fact that we have seen what he can do when he's healthy.
Sure he hasn't lived up to the high draft pick, but that doesn't mean he's even close to being done.

Excellent post. We have seen Penny play some great ball. I am sure we all want to see that again and soon. Russ can't cook all the time. Wow. It's exciting to think of all three of them playing healthy and destroying any team in the league.

I love the idea of Carson,Hyde and Penny with Collins on P.S.
After that one season at the end where we had no RB's .
That opened my eyes.

No doubt. Shoot, if Carson OR Penny play in that playoff game in Green Bay they win. Just my opinion.

Maelstrom787 wrote:

JayhawkMike wrote:It always amazes me that people add Penny to lists like this and lists of good draft picks. He is not good. Heck, Deejay has 3 total TDs and Penny only has 5.

We should have picked the MUCH higher rated CHUBB! Huge miss

Good of you to make that hindsight call, but Penny would be fine if he could stay healthy. He's clearly quite good when on the field. Interestingly, he was the smart medical pick at the time. Had his body held up like it did in college, he'd be one of the biggest threats on the offense. To insinuate the Penny isn't obviously a talented rusher when on the field is just... wrong. I question whether you were watching him last year.

Nick Chubb blew his knee out horribly in college, and hurt it again this year.

The REAL criticism here is that they picked a running back in the first round, which is almost always a stupid move. Regardless of how it worked out, it'd be pretty silly to draft a running back who suffered a naaasty knee injury in his college play with a high pick.

I agree with Maelstrom, but think it should be noted that Penny was quite healthy in college and the Hawks were struggling to find good RB depth as CC was nicked up often. He was drafted o be the healthy young challenger to Carson, but hasn’t been able to stay healthy, he’s not Prosise but he sure hasn’t lived up to his college history of avoiding injuries. Penny was reasonable value where he was picked even if many self-included were not fans of the pick. Then unfortunately Penny has had a number of health issues and never truly gotten his game into high gear which likely ads strength to the don’t draft RBs in the first round argument. Penny is a very capable RB but has underplayed his draft slot so far, I suspect he thinks he’s got thing to prove before the end of his rookie deal. I still think we could be very happy with him.

It is easy to criticize when the full picture is unknown. The Hawks have usually found good players at RB over the years of this regime. Some have had questionable characters have been released and returned but have shown they can play and run hard.

The RB depth on the team presently with the additions of Hyde and Collins to Carson and Penny at least should give us the hope we won’t have bring back retired players to allow for any semblance of a running game in the playoffs. I’m looking forward to seeing Carson back, more of Hyde, then hopefully a very motivated Penny, and perhaps Collins.

I don't think Penny is going to be worth anything this year. He's spent the whole year out of practices, and even in his huge games it seems like he didn't completely grasp the playbook. Russell always has to direct him where to go when he was in the backfield. We can't even count on Penny being in proper game shape if his last few years are any indication. Even if he is we don't know how his acceleration and lateral agility will be affected.

I don't think Penny will ever amount to anything with the Seahawks. He's got a limited skillset, and really seems to have a hard time finding the crease up the middle. I've always thought his style was at odds with what the Seahawks usually want to do in their running. He doesn't seem to grasp the finer nuances of the NFL, yet and he's struggled with motivation. He's had a few good games, but he's had way more games where he looked completely lost out on the field. I don't think the Seahawks can count on him ever being a bellcow back. We're probably going to need to look towards FA, or the draft to find a solid back next year. Carson, and Penny have not demonstrated the ability to stay healthy, Penny in particular has a really poor track record in the NFL of health.