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Firmly believe Pete behind Russell's Struggles

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  • In his post game he must have said we won due to not having turnovers and winning the turnover battle 6 times.

    He is one of those guys that echo things to embed them in your thoughts. I really think the surge in INT's Russ had for that stretch got him a ass chewing. Russell is not a guy that says screw it I am doing it my way anyway.

    That and watching the extra ordinary throw away's and as well as not threading passes into tighter windows like he was earlier this year enforces this thought.

    Would like to just blame bad game or was hurt or Schotty called a bad game but I don't think so.

    We have seen Pete go extreme before regarding this and shut Russell down except 4th quarter heroics before.

    Thoughts?
    chris98251
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  • My thoughts
    -I don't think Russ is getting an ass chewing.
    -Why won't Pete put an emphasis on turnovers?
    -There was a change in philosophy after the Rams game, not only to protect the ball but also to help the defense.
    -We've turned the ball over in games we've lost.
    -Not exciting to watch but we've won 7 of 8 with Pete ball.
    -If Russ wants to be regarded as a great he needs to be better despite the limitations of the offense.
    getnasty
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  • getnasty wrote:My thoughts
    -I don't think Russ is getting an ass chewing.
    -Why won't Pete put an emphasis on turnovers?
    -There was a change in philosophy after the Rams game, not only to protect the ball but also to help the defense.
    -We've turned the ball over in games we've lost.
    -Not exciting to watch but we've won 7 of 8 with Pete ball.
    -If Russ wants to be regarded as a great he needs to be better despite the limitations of the offense.

    We have also not played many teams worth noting. The only winning team we've played in that period are the Rams, Goff was also injured himself during that game. The Cardinals are 8-8, but they were on a losing streak when we played them -- dropping 6 of their last 9 games. Kyler Murray is also the only notable healthy QB that we've gone against in that span.

    Beathard, Colt McCoy, Carson Wentz, injured Goff, Sam Darnold, and Dwayne Hashkins aren't exactly world beaters. So, yes while we won 7 out of 8 I think attributing that to Pete Ball is a bit of a erroneous. The fortunes of the Seahawks defense shifted when we acquired Carlos Dunlap, Flowers got replaced by Reed, and Jamal Adams became healthy. This revised defense also has not faced real competition yet. I think they are good, but not as good as we're seeing at the moment. We're going to have to go through the likes of Brees, Rodgers, or Brady in order to get to the Super Bowl, perhaps two of these guys. You think that what we're doing now is going to cut it against those teams?

    This is the problem with Pete Ball, and it has been the problem with it all along. It is punished with extreme prejudice by better teams in the postseason. Last minutes heroics against the 49ers are cool and all, but that kind of play won't cut it against the likes of the Bucs, Saints, or Packers. It's exactly the same thing that has happened to the Seahawks for the last five years now.
    Spin Doctor
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  • Russ is not struggling.

    Man I'm tired of talking about this. Defenses can be dominant too. And qbs cant make every single pass perfect. What you are seeing is not a qb struggling...rather than an offensive line which cant pass block...long going no where covered routes and russ trying to just do what he can knowing he will be hit.

    Plus our run game isnt breaking off 20 yarders here and there spot running the ball. Specially when defenses can tell we are running. Enough with the russ struggling crap. I know at times he has looked like mr perfect, but he isnt. Neither are you. QBs are allowed to miss a pass here and there. No one talks about the dropped passes and tipped nterceptions. They only want to point fingers at one person in a team game.

    It's to much guys. Address the real concerns. Including pete handcuffing first half offense. Dont try to fabricate new issues. Russ will make alot of dumb comments just go away. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

    Also, if russ is really struggling...how do you feel about the sudden flip of switch in the 3rd and 4th quarters? Like how the hell is it this easy for our offense to score at will, but didnt do it the first half. If russ was really struggling could he have taken them down the field on two successive drives to take the lead and then extra scores beat the niners yesterday? Answer is no....
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  • Wilson and Carroll watch the Ali / Foreman fight before every game and deploy the ' rope a dope ' game plan . Just a drunken theory I have on game day . WFT else could it be ? :irishdrinkers:
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  • Seahawk offense averages 1.9 points more in the second half of games compared to first half.

    The defense gives up 3.5 more points in the second half compared to the 1st. First half defense is actaully 3rd best in the league on a ppg basis.
    getnasty
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  • Here we go again. He carried the team to victory in the 4th quarter, AGAIN. 12th win of the season.
    They scored 20, 20, and 26 against 3 top 10 defenses.
    But yeah, he's "struggling"
    The team in general was VERY flat for most of the first 3 quarters. But they scored 20 points in the 4th quarter. Why does it matter how they WON? Why is it always on Russ as the reason the offense struggles? What about horrific play calling? Can he play better, hell yes. But after 9 years of this, plenty are still whining and moaning about the guy after WINS. They don't win this game, and they are not even close to 12-4 w/out him. Period. We have seen ugly first half play and scoring for YEARS, why surprised when they turn it on in the 2nd half? This is nothing new. It's annoying, but it's how they do things.

    4,212 Yards
    40 Touchdowns

    13 Picks

    Yeah, what a "struggle" he has had this season. His Pass blocking has been horrific at times this year.
    SoulfishHawk
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  • So an offense that set the franchise record for most points scored in a season is considered to be "struggling"?

    The offense does not look very sharp on every series, but it is far from "struggling". What we are seeing is the same things that happens on EVERY team. Some series they can't move the ball and some series they look unstoppable. That is what happens when the Defense for the other team is made up of pro players as well.
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  • Yeah, I'm not getting into any "Pete Ball" discussion.

    The goal posts move too wildly.
    Hockey Guy
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  • The one specific thing that has me concerned is are guys not getting open downfield? Which is hard to believe with Metcalf and Lockett. Seemed yesterday on the plays where he had time Russ couldn't find anyone and had to hold the ball. Impossible to know without looking at the All-22 and seeing the guys downfield.
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  • I agree with Pete that not turning the ball over has been a significant factor for our winning streak. 13 turnovers by Russ was too much to overcome in those losses. But in overview, here we are. AGAIN...complaining about another win.
    Appyhawk
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  • Appyhawk wrote:I agree with Pete that not turning the ball over has been a significant factor for our winning streak. 13 turnovers by Russ was too much to overcome in those losses. But in overview, here we are. AGAIN...complaining about another win.


    I wouldnt say complaining about another win as opposed to some people trying to pin specific blame on players as opposed to a team concept.

    By the way just cuz russ throws the ball doesnt mean he is in full control of all the turnovers. Fumbles and blantant direct interceptions yes...but tipped balls, batted or poor snaps?

    Russ isnt the only one playing out there.
    jamescasey1124
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  • True James. It takes a TEAM. And winning the TO battle is a big part of "Pete Ball". He's made that very clear. Russ's turnover picks came in a flurry following a perfect 5 game stretch. Some were flukes caused by good defensive plays, but others were simply lack of touch or poor decisions by Russ. He isn't perfect.
    When we lose it's usually a matter of losing the turnover battle to a team that is playing better "Pete Ball" than we are.
    Appyhawk
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  • Appyhawk wrote:True James. It takes a TEAM. And winning the TO battle is a big part of "Pete Ball". He's made that very clear. Russ's turnover picks came in a flurry following a perfect 5 game stretch. Some were flukes caused by good defensive plays, but others were simply lack of touch or poor decisions by Russ. He isn't perfect.
    When we lose it's usually a matter of losing the turnover battle to a team that is playing better "Pete Ball" than we are.


    Spot on...
    jamescasey1124
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  • Even or + in the turnover battle: 12-0 this year
    That says it all.
    SoulfishHawk
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  • Recognizing the amazing things that Pete has done does not have to be mutually exclusive with pointing out how his weaknesses can negatively impact team production or player production.

    Pete built this program. We win because of it.

    There was a thread a few days ago about potentially losing JS and whether you are happy with his 1st round picks or his penchant for trades that do not work out, you cannot argue that he and Pete have not turned this team into a top 10 roster if not a top 5.

    But Pete is a below average gameday coach that comes to the table with simplistic game plans regularly. And he forces game plans despite the opponent or even our own ability to execute (ie whether it is best for our roster).

    If we could somehow lock Pete in a closet on gamedays and allow almost any other above-average coach to call the plays, we probably have another SB win - we almost certainly have another SB. It is the opinion of many here, myself included, that our coordinators are given very short leashes, very specific directives, and are not allowed to freely call plays like many coordinators in the league.

    So it makes sense that people would see that and pine for better gameday production from the staff.

    So after seeing the difference changing a coach that holds a QB back can make (see Green Bay), and knowing just how significant great QB play can be to team success - it makes sense that people would be upset to see the coaching staff hold back our QB.

    I mean Reid looked like a playoff failure until he got Mahomes. The difference a great QB can make in making a good coach look great (or great coach look good without one) is immense. Carroll has a Mahomes, and he frankly is doing nothing more than wildcard wins lately.

    Should we be getting better results with our own version of Mahomes? Or is Wilson just not in the Rodgers and Mahomes tier?

    The problem is that unleashing Wilson didn't work out well. Can you pin that all on Carroll? I doubt it. Would an offensive system specifically built around him with a great offensive coach make us better? It sure did in GB, where Rodgers went from looking like his time was over to looking like a much better QB than Wilson this year.

    If you believe that Wilson is in that Mahomes/Rodgers tier - then Carroll is underproducing with him. If you don't then Pete is actually extracting wins with this team that Wilson might not deliver with another coach.
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  • HawkRiderFan wrote:The one specific thing that has me concerned is are guys not getting open downfield? Which is hard to believe with Metcalf and Lockett. Seemed yesterday on the plays where he had time Russ couldn't find anyone and had to hold the ball. Impossible to know without looking at the All-22 and seeing the guys downfield.


    This is one of my key beliefs that it is a part of a bigger plan. No way can we have guys just running downfield unopen with their talent level and russ cant find them. Unless they are purposely doing it, because bam later in the game they seem to get open like nobody's business.
    jamescasey1124
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Recognizing the amazing things that Pete has done does not have to be mutually exclusive with pointing out how his weaknesses can negatively impact team production or player production.

    Pete built this program. We win because of it.

    There was a thread a few days ago about potentially losing JS and whether you are happy with his 1st round picks or his penchant for trades that do not work out, you cannot argue that he and Pete have not turned this team into a top 10 roster if not a top 5.

    But Pete is a below average gameday coach that comes to the table with simplistic game plans regularly. And he forces game plans despite the opponent or even our own ability to execute (ie whether it is best for our roster).

    If we could somehow lock Pete in a closet on gamedays and allow almost any other above-average coach to call the plays, we probably have another SB win - we almost certainly have another SB. It is the opinion of many here, myself included, that our coordinators are given very short leashes, very specific directives, and are not allowed to freely call plays like many coordinators in the league.

    So it makes sense that people would see that and pine for better gameday production from the staff.

    So after seeing the difference changing a coach that holds a QB back can make (see Green Bay), and knowing just how significant great QB play can be to team success - it makes sense that people would be upset to see the coaching staff hold back our QB.

    I mean Reid looked like a playoff failure until he got Mahomes. The difference a great QB can make in making a good coach look great (or great coach look good without one) is immense. Carroll has a Mahomes, and he frankly is doing nothing more than wildcard wins lately.

    Should we be getting better results with our own version of Mahomes? Or is Wilson just not in the Rodgers and Mahomes tier?

    The problem is that unleashing Wilson didn't work out well. Can you pin that all on Carroll? I doubt it. Would an offensive system specifically built around him with a great offensive coach make us better? It sure did in GB, where Rodgers went from looking like his time was over to looking like a much better QB than Wilson this year.

    If you believe that Wilson is in that Mahomes/Rodgers tier - then Carroll is underproducing with him. If you don't then Pete is actually extracting wins with this team that Wilson might not deliver with another coach.


    While I am with you on most of this...you lost me at listing mahomes above wilson. We saw what Wilson has done over years upon years now, breaking records and being easily better than his counterparts. Just because he has ten less tds then either rodgers, mahomes and allen doesnt mean he is in a lower tier. Wilson did pan out unleashing. See first five games this season....and multiple seasons before. By the end if his career he will be undoubtedly the best qb to ever play if he keeps it up five to 5 more years. Not to mention...these last few weeks in have seen some defense eat away at mahomes overall ceiling. Mahomes is still great dont get me wrong, but it's way to early to put him ahead of anybody named rodgers, wilson or brady.

    Next subject...I'm not so sure pete needs to be locked in a closet. For the same reasons you counter explained above. He got us here in the first place.

    However, he can stand to allow for more production and not be so opposed to laying teams flat.

    Pete is just more about gamesmanship than wins, even though the wins are still rolling in.
    jamescasey1124
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  • Mahomes is playing better football than Wilson. Going farther in the playoffs. And will likely go farther this year.

    Nobody outside of Seattle would put Wilson over Mahomes. Likely a fifth of our fans would not.

    Ranking Wilson over Mahomes takes a lot of mental gymnastics. Maybe Wilson is the better QB.

    But Wilson+Carroll < Mahomes+Reid by almost any measure in the past few years.

    And there is little chance that Wilson+Carroll goes farther in the playoffs than Mahomes+Reid. Almost zero.

    Maybe Wilson COULD be a better QB than Mahomes under another coach. But this year, Mahomes in his system is better than Wilson in his. Not even sure what you could dispute about that.
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  • Mahomes is the best QB in the league, period. Hawks have their guy, KC has their guy, GB has their guy. NO has their guy.
    Every one of those teams have clutch QB's who can take them to a title.
    Last edited by SoulfishHawk on Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Individual and team production mean nothing except for more money on incentives. The only thing that actually matters is winning the games. When Russ was "cooking" we lost several because of his turnovers. In the end we once again have a twelve win season because Pete handles his business. People keep harping on the last few seasons as failures of the offense. The defense is the one responsible for giving up four or more touchdowns in all but one of those playoff games.
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    SoulfishHawk
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Mahomes is playing better football than Wilson. Going farther in the playoffs. And will likely go farther this year.

    Nobody outside of Seattle would put Wilson over Mahomes. Likely a fifth of our fans would not.

    Ranking Wilson over Mahomes takes a lot of mental gymnastics. Maybe Wilson is the better QB.

    But Wilson+Carroll < Mahomes+Reid by almost any measure in the past few years.

    And there is little chance that Wilson+Carroll goes farther in the playoffs than Mahomes+Reid. Almost zero.

    Maybe Wilson COULD be a better QB than Mahomes under another coach. But this year, Mahomes in his system is better than Wilson in his. Not even sure what you could dispute about that.


    Chiefs go further in playoffs. Not just mahomes. Plus, it's been the last two seasons to where we are seeing the chiefs take a step back. I dont care if the starters on the chiefs sat yesterday. Teams have figured out mahomes defensively. The problem is he has many other weapons to use. Again, the chiefs are in the playoffs. Not just mahomes and the chiefs have shown they are beatable in several games this year. Look it up. The have the most wins this season of less than 4 points. Teams are playing them really well.

    I will go with you on the russ is a better team qb than individual. Still, in the end we will see who isntruely better. Just like two years ago...when we were the only team to shut down the chiefs offense powerhouse.
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  • In my eyes, it's the lack of an elite scheme, like KC and GB have. They scheme guys open and both QB's have a good amount of easy throws throughout a game. You shouldn't have to rely on a QB constantly threading the needle and him making magic out of broken plays. That's not a formula for winning a title. Hopefully Schotty has just enough tricks in his sleeve for the playoffs.
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  • Was Pete also behind Russell's struggles mid season when he turned the ball over 10 times in five games?

    I know everyone fell in love with Let Russ Cook Russell, but that's not sustainable once defenses (good defenses) figured out what Russell and the offense was doing.

    I'm not crazy about how the offense is playing either, but I DEFINITELY like this version of the Hawks with a much better defense and a balanced offense that can crank it up when they need to in the playoffs.

    Then an offense that relies on it's QB to have to score 30+ points a game because the defense is so terrible. Not sure how that's a good recipe for success in January.
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  • iigakusei wrote:https://twitter.com/fbgchase/status/1346104452684664833


    That's nice. Now look up who was sacked and pressured most this season. I wont pay attention to anything that has QBs above wilson who played far less games to compare to. I.E. PRESCOTT. Not that Prescott, cousins or fitz magic are bad, but you are comparing efficiency ratings with stats that dont even matter.
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  • I agree with this, however I will note during the stretch Russell has his interceptions, he was literally also trying to make up for the deficiency we had on Defense during that time.

    I feel IMO Russ and the defense are at a stage where they could be balanced but “Pete Ball” doesn’t allow that. He wants the game on the defense.

    I think the first 5 games were a sign of what’s Wilson’s capable of, then the series of Interceptions were signs of, when you ask Wilson TOO do to much .. like making up on the offensive side of the ball because the DC and defense are out to lunch, and the last few games have been a sign of, “Pete Ball” and Defense “wins” games
    JPatera76
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Was Pete also behind Russell's struggles mid season when he turned the ball over 10 times in five games?

    I know everyone fell in love with Let Russ Cook Russell, but that's not sustainable once defenses (good defenses) figured out what Russell and the offense was doing.

    I'm not crazy about how the offense is playing either, but I DEFINITELY like this version of the Hawks with a much better defense and a balanced offense that can crank it up when they need to in the playoffs.

    Then an offense that relies on it's QB to have to score 30+ points a game because the defense is so terrible. Not sure how that's a good recipe for success in January.

    If Wilson struggled against the Giants, Jets, Washington, Rams, Niners, Arizona, Eagles, and Bills, suffice it to say, that just means, it isn’t going to get any easier.

    Wilson will most likely struggle in playoffs as well and Seattle will struggle to run the ball.

    It doesn’t get any easier on defense, fellas.

    It doesn’t matter if Wilson is struggling.

    If he’s struggling, all it means is he is not good enough.

    Can you honestly say you are 100 percent comfortable with this offense moving forward?

    Wilson may not even be a Top 5 QB right now in playoffs:

    1. Rodgers
    2. Mahomes
    3. Allen
    4. Jackson
    5. Brady

    The way Wilson has been struggling, consistently, late in the seasons, he’s not even Top 5 in my rankings right now.

    Wilson better get better quickly cause yeah, after a while, blaming coaches become tiresome, Wilson needs to put his football distractions to the side and get better, because it does NOT get easier!

    Win or go home!

    Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey are coming for Wilson!
    TheLegendOfBoom
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  • Yeah, heard all that before. Right before yet ANOTHER win.
    And I also heard that the Rams were gonna' come in angry and stomp the Hawks.
    Nope.
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  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Was Pete also behind Russell's struggles mid season when he turned the ball over 10 times in five games?

    I know everyone fell in love with Let Russ Cook Russell, but that's not sustainable once defenses (good defenses) figured out what Russell and the offense was doing.

    I'm not crazy about how the offense is playing either, but I DEFINITELY like this version of the Hawks with a much better defense and a balanced offense that can crank it up when they need to in the playoffs.

    Then an offense that relies on it's QB to have to score 30+ points a game because the defense is so terrible. Not sure how that's a good recipe for success in January.

    If Wilson struggled against the Giants, Jets, Washington, Rams, Niners, Arizona, Eagles, and Bills, suffice it to say, that just means, it isn’t going to get any easier.

    Wilson will most likely struggle in playoffs as well and Seattle will struggle to run the ball.

    It doesn’t get any easier on defense, fellas.

    It doesn’t matter if Wilson is struggling.

    If he’s struggling, all it means is he is not good enough.

    Can you honestly say you are 100 percent comfortable with this offense moving forward?

    Wilson may not even be a Top 5 QB right now in playoffs:

    1. Rodgers
    2. Mahomes
    3. Allen
    4. Jackson
    5. Brady

    The way Wilson has been struggling, consistently, late in the seasons, he’s not even Top 5 in my rankings right now.

    Wilson better get better quickly cause yeah, after a while, blaming coaches become tiresome, Wilson needs to put his football distractions to the side and get better, because it does NOT get easier!

    Win or go home!

    Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey are coming for Wilson!


    :ditto:

    RW is capable of playing better than any of your top 5, but his inconsistency is maddening.

    He is playing good enough right now, if good enough means not hurting the team and doing just enough to win games.

    However, good enough in regular season games is not good enough in playoff games.

    We all know he has the ability to play much better than he has been. The question is, will he be able to turn it up for the playoffs? I think he will.
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  • JPatera76 wrote:I agree with this, however I will note during the stretch Russell has his interceptions, he was literally also trying to make up for the deficiency we had on Defense during that time.

    I feel IMO Russ and the defense are at a stage where they could be balanced but “Pete Ball” doesn’t allow that. He wants the game on the defense.

    I think the first 5 games were a sign of what’s Wilson’s capable of, then the series of Interceptions were signs of, when you ask Wilson TOO do to much .. like making up on the offensive side of the ball because the DC and defense are out to lunch, and the last few games have been a sign of, “Pete Ball” and Defense “wins” games


    I agree. Hmmm
    jamescasey1124
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  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Wilson better get better quickly cause yeah, after a while, blaming coaches become tiresome, Wilson needs to put his football distractions to the side and get better, because it does NOT get easier!


    See I think this is who Russell is, a top 5 and at times falls off to more of a top 10 QB.

    I never bought into the let Russ cook Russell of the first five games, I knew that had more to do with a VERY polished and experienced offense being way ahead of average to below average defenses that had ZERO time to practice and prepare because of covid.

    Far more than some conscious change of offensive philosophy, or Russell all of a sudden turning on a superhero switch.

    I love Russell, I'm glad he's our franchise QB for the next 10 years on his way to the Hall of Fame. But this is who he is, a smart prepared elusive and clutch QB that can manage a game and run around and make explosive plays when you need him too.

    So he and others can tell us all they want about how he wants to be the greatest QB of all time and win MVP's every year, but IMO that's probably never going to happen, because he's not Aaron Rodgers, he's not Drew Brees, he's not Tom Brady in his prime. Guys that can carry the load game in, game out, year in, year out.

    He needs that run game and defense, and the good news is he has that now.
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  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Was Pete also behind Russell's struggles mid season when he turned the ball over 10 times in five games?

    * I dont know but alotted tip passes and batted balls equal interceptions too. Plus bad snaps and handoff exchanges. Oh did I mention drop balls by the recievers olsen comes to mind. You are right though pete isnt to blame, but nearly is Wilson exclusively.*


    I'm not crazy about how the offense is playing either, but I DEFINITELY like this version of the Hawks with a much better defense and a balanced offense that can crank it up when they need to in the playoffs.

    *Agree.*

    Then an offense that relies on it's QB to have to score 30+ points a game because the defense is so terrible. Not sure how that's a good recipe for success in January.


    If Wilson struggled against the Giants, Jets, Washington, Rams, Niners, Arizona, Eagles, and Bills, suffice it to say, that just means, it isn’t going to get any easier.

    *Saying wilson struggled all by himself would be pointless for a team game.*

    Wilson will most likely struggle in playoffs as well and Seattle will struggle to run the ball.

    They dont seem to struggle when they need to win. Aside the giants game.

    It doesn’t get any easier on defense, fellas.

    It doesn’t matter if Wilson is struggling.

    If he’s struggling, all it means is he is not good enough.

    *Ok really.*

    Can you honestly say you are 100 percent comfortable with this offense moving forward?

    *Yes. Yes I can. Because when they need to win, whether it in the fourth quarter or 1st...its always close. *

    Wilson may not even be a Top 5 QB right now in playoffs:

    1. Rodgers
    2. Mahomes
    3. Allen
    4. Jackson
    5. Brady

    The way Wilson has been struggling, consistently, late in the seasons, he’s not even Top 5 in my rankings right now.

    *Good thing your rankings don't matter. That would be like saying everything i say is better than what you say.*

    Wilson better get better quickly cause yeah, after a while, blaming coaches become tiresome, Wilson needs to put his football distractions to the side and get better, because it does NOT get easier!

    Win or go home!

    Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey are coming for Wilson!


    *Oh no...donald and Ramsey. Didnt they lose like two weeks ago? To some team...cant remember the team name...help me out.*

    It's clear you favor other teams claims on Twitter to your own team.
    jamescasey1124
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    Posts: 747
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  • Give it a break.
    Wilson's year

    YEAR G ATT COMP PCT YDS AVG LNG TD INT 1st 1st% 20+ SCK SCKY RATE
    2020 16 558 384 68.82 4212 7.6 62 40 13 213 38.17 45 47 301 105.1

    I do not see the problem especially considering a mediocre pass protection on the Offensive line. (the teams most significant weakness right now.)

    The early season explosion passing was due to the defenses they played. Was not sustainable considering the last three weeks defenses were all top ten. 40 td's against 13 interceptions is darn good by any standard. Worth 140 million over 4 years.
    tersal
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Wilson better get better quickly cause yeah, after a while, blaming coaches become tiresome, Wilson needs to put his football distractions to the side and get better, because it does NOT get easier!


    See I think this is who Russell is, a top 5 and at times falls off to more of a top 10 QB.

    I never bought into the let Russ cook Russell of the first five games, I knew that had more to do with a VERY polished and experienced offense being way ahead of average to below average defenses that had ZERO time to practice and prepare because of covid.

    Far more than some conscious change of offensive philosophy, or Russell all of a sudden turning on a superhero switch.

    I love Russell, I'm glad he's our franchise QB for the next 10 years on his way to the Hall of Fame. But this is who he is, a smart prepared elusive and clutch QB that can manage a game and run around and make explosive plays when you need him too.

    So he and others can tell us all they want about how he wants to be the greatest QB of all time and win MVP's every year, but IMO that's probably never going to happen, because he's not Aaron Rodgeurs, he's not Drew Brees, he's not Tom Brady in his prime. Guys that can carry the load game in, game out, year in, year out.

    He needs that run game and defense, and the good news is he has that now.


    Holy $h!t...I've never seen so much constant build up of a person to just tear him down.

    The f*** hate is strong here. You would think someone with the name largent in it would respect his players more then those of other teams.

    I'm sorry guys, but the f*** expectations of some of you who probably work desk jobs, barely loving life and go around hating on others is severely overrated. Tired as some of you may say.

    Hot dam...you would think we were 6-10 this year and sitting out.
    jamescasey1124
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    Posts: 747
    Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 12:36 am


  • Russ has been playing tentative lately. Anyone not wearing "Russ-colored" glasses can see this. There is no rhythm for Russ to get in the zone. They are not necessarily running the ball more. They're just not in rhythm in the passing game, and the playground style ball hasn't been as effective this season. Most of this is on Russ for not being sharp on gameday, some of it is on Shotty's play calls, and a little bit of it is on Pete over-correcting, and making sure Russ protects the ball.

    3rd down is especially a problem. Earlier this season when Russ was cooking, they converted a lot on 1st and 2nd down, eliminating 3rd down altogether - when defenses can pin their ears back, knowing it is likely a pass play. They also try to go for deep shots on 3rd when all they need is a couple of yards... these plays usually end up in sacks. This is on Shotty for not having better calls on 3rd down... Having a reliable 3rd down target like Olsen, Gordon or Baldwin would help too. I would not say Moore or DK is a reliable 3rd down target... yet.

    On 4th quarter comebacks, Russ uses his legs to move the chains a lot. He doesn't really do this on quarters 1-3. Also defenses are usually gassed by then, so it is easier to have 4th quarter comebacks. The 4th quarter comeback strategy might work against low-scoring teams like 9ers and Rams, but it won't work against teams like NO and GB.

    Russ will need to cook, and protect the football at the same time in quarters 1-3 to make it back to the SB. Can this be done? Remains to be seen.
    hoxrox
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  • NWBS is real
    SoulfishHawk
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Wilson better get better quickly cause yeah, after a while, blaming coaches become tiresome, Wilson needs to put his football distractions to the side and get better, because it does NOT get easier!


    See I think this is who Russell is, a top 5 and at times falls off to more of a top 10 QB.

    I never bought into the let Russ cook Russell of the first five games, I knew that had more to do with a VERY polished and experienced offense being way ahead of average to below average defenses that had ZERO time to practice and prepare because of covid.

    Far more than some conscious change of offensive philosophy, or Russell all of a sudden turning on a superhero switch.

    I love Russell, I'm glad he's our franchise QB for the next 10 years on his way to the Hall of Fame. But this is who he is, a smart prepared elusive and clutch QB that can manage a game and run around and make explosive plays when you need him too.

    So he and others can tell us all they want about how he wants to be the greatest QB of all time and win MVP's every year, but IMO that's probably never going to happen, because he's not Aaron Rodgers, he's not Drew Brees, he's not Tom Brady in his prime. Guys that can carry the load game in, game out, year in, year out.

    He needs that run game and defense, and the good news is he has that now.


    Well at least we are under no illusions that you don't put your feelings and bias first, ahead of facts.

    Russ can make every throw. The first 5-6 weeks of the season was indicative of great O-line protection (which is what Rodgers, Brees, etc. gets), and him making pin point accurate throws.

    The actual FACTS, shows that Seattle was passing on neutral downs more compared to past years. In fact, even with a decent running game we are still statistically a pass first team. The running game has only been dominant in ONE game, the Washington game. And in that game, Russ accounted for over 40 of those yards.

    Also, can you name ONE great QB who has gone far without a running game or defense. Name one, since you're not at all biased. You can't possibly love Russell if you also have an agenda to ignore any and all objective facts that contradict your point.
    Last edited by Scorpion05 on Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
    Scorpion05
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  • tersal wrote:Give it a break.
    Wilson's year

    YEAR G ATT COMP PCT YDS AVG LNG TD INT 1st 1st% 20+ SCK SCKY RATE
    2020 16 558 384 68.82 4212 7.6 62 40 13 213 38.17 45 47 301 105.1

    I do not see the problem especially considering a mediocre pass protection on the Offensive line. (the teams most significant weakness right now.)

    The early season explosion passing was due to the defenses they played. Was not sustainable considering the last three weeks defenses were all top ten. 40 td's against 13 interceptions is darn good by any standard. Worth 140 million over 4 years.


    Yes sir!!!
    jamescasey1124
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 747
    Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 12:36 am


  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Wilson better get better quickly cause yeah, after a while, blaming coaches become tiresome, Wilson needs to put his football distractions to the side and get better, because it does NOT get easier!


    See I think this is who Russell is, a top 5 and at times falls off to more of a top 10 QB.

    I never bought into the let Russ cook Russell of the first five games, I knew that had more to do with a VERY polished and experienced offense being way ahead of average to below average defenses that had ZERO time to practice and prepare because of covid.

    Far more than some conscious change of offensive philosophy, or Russell all of a sudden turning on a superhero switch.

    I love Russell, I'm glad he's our franchise QB for the next 10 years on his way to the Hall of Fame. But this is who he is, a smart prepared elusive and clutch QB that can manage a game and run around and make explosive plays when you need him too.

    So he and others can tell us all they want about how he wants to be the greatest QB of all time and win MVP's every year, but IMO that's probably never going to happen, because he's not Aaron Rodgeurs, he's not Drew Brees, he's not Tom Brady in his prime. Guys that can carry the load game in, game out, year in, year out.

    He needs that run game and defense, and the good news is he has that now.


    Holy $h!t...I've never seen so much constant build up of a person to just tear him down.

    The f*** hate is strong here. You would think someone with the name largent in it would respect his players more then those of other teams.

    I'm sorry guys, but the f*** expectations of some of you who probably work desk jobs, barely loving life and go around hating on others is severely overrated. Tired as some of you may say.

    Hot dam...you would think we were 6-10 this year and sitting out.


    Guess you missed the part where I said Russ is a top 5 QB and I'm glad he's our QB for the next 10 years.

    But I get it, righteous indignation feels good.
    Sgt. Largent
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  • tersal wrote:Give it a break.
    Wilson's year

    YEAR G ATT COMP PCT YDS AVG LNG TD INT 1st 1st% 20+ SCK SCKY RATE
    2020 16 558 384 68.82 4212 7.6 62 40 13 213 38.17 45 47 301 105.1

    I do not see the problem especially considering a mediocre pass protection on the Offensive line. (the teams most significant weakness right now.)

    The early season explosion passing was due to the defenses they played. Was not sustainable considering the last three weeks defenses were all top ten. 40 td's against 13 interceptions is darn good by any standard. Worth 140 million over 4 years.


    Actually, the difference between early in the season and late, is that the O-line protection was consistent. Three of Russ' worst games this season missed a combination of Pocic, Iupati, or Shell. We even had Damien Lewis under Center once, something Russ haters can't acknowledge.

    Also the Patriots, Dolphins, Vikings, Cardinals were not poor defenses. Even back then. The Cowboys and Falcons were the only truly terrible defenses and even then Russ was pin point accurate
    Scorpion05
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1545
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Wilson better get better quickly cause yeah, after a while, blaming coaches become tiresome, Wilson needs to put his football distractions to the side and get better, because it does NOT get easier!


    See I think this is who Russell is, a top 5 and at times falls off to more of a top 10 QB.

    I never bought into the let Russ cook Russell of the first five games, I knew that had more to do with a VERY polished and experienced offense being way ahead of average to below average defenses that had ZERO time to practice and prepare because of covid.

    Far more than some conscious change of offensive philosophy, or Russell all of a sudden turning on a superhero switch.

    I love Russell, I'm glad he's our franchise QB for the next 10 years on his way to the Hall of Fame. But this is who he is, a smart prepared elusive and clutch QB that can manage a game and run around and make explosive plays when you need him too.

    So he and others can tell us all they want about how he wants to be the greatest QB of all time and win MVP's every year, but IMO that's probably never going to happen, because he's not Aaron Rodgeurs, he's not Drew Brees, he's not Tom Brady in his prime. Guys that can carry the load game in, game out, year in, year out.

    He needs that run game and defense, and the good news is he has that now.


    Holy $h!t...I've never seen so much constant build up of a person to just tear him down.

    The f*** hate is strong here. You would think someone with the name largent in it would respect his players more then those of other teams.

    I'm sorry guys, but the f*** expectations of some of you who probably work desk jobs, barely loving life and go around hating on others is severely overrated. Tired as some of you may say.

    Hot dam...you would think we were 6-10 this year and sitting out.


    Guess you missed the part where I said Russ is a top 5 QB and I'm glad he's our QB for the next 10 years.

    But I get it, righteous indignation feels good.


    Nah I chose to indicate the part you were sucking off other QBs who wilson is shattering records to be compared to. Sorry, I read the part you said he was top 5, but i will continue to address people slobbering on others first.
    jamescasey1124
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 747
    Joined: Mon May 04, 2020 12:36 am


  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Was Pete also behind Russell's struggles mid season when he turned the ball over 10 times in five games?

    * I dont know but alotted tip passes and batted balls equal interceptions too. Plus bad snaps and handoff exchanges. Oh did I mention drop balls by the recievers olsen comes to mind. You are right though pete isnt to blame, but nearly is Wilson exclusively.*


    I'm not crazy about how the offense is playing either, but I DEFINITELY like this version of the Hawks with a much better defense and a balanced offense that can crank it up when they need to in the playoffs.

    *Agree.*

    Then an offense that relies on it's QB to have to score 30+ points a game because the defense is so terrible. Not sure how that's a good recipe for success in January.


    If Wilson struggled against the Giants, Jets, Washington, Rams, Niners, Arizona, Eagles, and Bills, suffice it to say, that just means, it isn’t going to get any easier.

    *Saying wilson struggled all by himself would be pointless for a team game.*

    Wilson will most likely struggle in playoffs as well and Seattle will struggle to run the ball.

    They dont seem to struggle when they need to win. Aside the giants game.

    It doesn’t get any easier on defense, fellas.

    It doesn’t matter if Wilson is struggling.

    If he’s struggling, all it means is he is not good enough.

    *Ok really.*

    Can you honestly say you are 100 percent comfortable with this offense moving forward?

    *Yes. Yes I can. Because when they need to win, whether it in the fourth quarter or 1st...its always close. *

    Wilson may not even be a Top 5 QB right now in playoffs:

    1. Rodgers
    2. Mahomes
    3. Allen
    4. Jackson
    5. Brady

    The way Wilson has been struggling, consistently, late in the seasons, he’s not even Top 5 in my rankings right now.

    *Good thing your rankings don't matter. That would be like saying everything i say is better than what you say.*

    Wilson better get better quickly cause yeah, after a while, blaming coaches become tiresome, Wilson needs to put his football distractions to the side and get better, because it does NOT get easier!

    Win or go home!

    Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey are coming for Wilson!


    *Oh no...donald and Ramsey. Didnt they lose like two weeks ago? To some team...cant remember the team name...help me out.*

    It's clear you favor other teams claims on Twitter to your own team.

    Well, James, if you want to say the Rams lost two weeks ago, I can also say, the Rams won, 23-16 in WK10. And?
    TheLegendOfBoom
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    Posts: 1829
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  • [quote="TwistedHusky"]Mahomes is playing better football than Wilson. Going farther in the playoffs. And will likely go farther this year.

    Nobody outside of Seattle would put Wilson over Mahomes. Likely a fifth of our fans would not.

    I live in NC. Soon to be denver again. You have nothing to stand on here.
    jamescasey1124
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  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Was Pete also behind Russell's struggles mid season when he turned the ball over 10 times in five games?

    * I dont know but alotted tip passes and batted balls equal interceptions too. Plus bad snaps and handoff exchanges. Oh did I mention drop balls by the recievers olsen comes to mind. You are right though pete isnt to blame, but nearly is Wilson exclusively.*


    I'm not crazy about how the offense is playing either, but I DEFINITELY like this version of the Hawks with a much better defense and a balanced offense that can crank it up when they need to in the playoffs.

    *Agree.*

    Then an offense that relies on it's QB to have to score 30+ points a game because the defense is so terrible. Not sure how that's a good recipe for success in January.


    If Wilson struggled against the Giants, Jets, Washington, Rams, Niners, Arizona, Eagles, and Bills, suffice it to say, that just means, it isn’t going to get any easier.

    *Saying wilson struggled all by himself would be pointless for a team game.*

    Wilson will most likely struggle in playoffs as well and Seattle will struggle to run the ball.

    They dont seem to struggle when they need to win. Aside the giants game.

    It doesn’t get any easier on defense, fellas.

    It doesn’t matter if Wilson is struggling.

    If he’s struggling, all it means is he is not good enough.

    *Ok really.*

    Can you honestly say you are 100 percent comfortable with this offense moving forward?

    *Yes. Yes I can. Because when they need to win, whether it in the fourth quarter or 1st...its always close. *

    Wilson may not even be a Top 5 QB right now in playoffs:

    1. Rodgers
    2. Mahomes
    3. Allen
    4. Jackson
    5. Brady

    The way Wilson has been struggling, consistently, late in the seasons, he’s not even Top 5 in my rankings right now.

    *Good thing your rankings don't matter. That would be like saying everything i say is better than what you say.*

    Wilson better get better quickly cause yeah, after a while, blaming coaches become tiresome, Wilson needs to put his football distractions to the side and get better, because it does NOT get easier!

    Win or go home!

    Aaron Donald and Jalen Ramsey are coming for Wilson!


    *Oh no...donald and Ramsey. Didnt they lose like two weeks ago? To some team...cant remember the team name...help me out.*

    It's clear you favor other teams claims on Twitter to your own team.

    Well, James, if you want to say the Rams lost two weeks ago, I can also say, the Rams won, 23-16 in WK10. And?


    That's cool. Who won the NFC west? Not your rams!
    jamescasey1124
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    getnasty wrote:My thoughts
    -I don't think Russ is getting an ass chewing.
    -Why won't Pete put an emphasis on turnovers?
    -There was a change in philosophy after the Rams game, not only to protect the ball but also to help the defense.
    -We've turned the ball over in games we've lost.
    -Not exciting to watch but we've won 7 of 8 with Pete ball.
    -If Russ wants to be regarded as a great he needs to be better despite the limitations of the offense.

    We have also not played many teams worth noting. The only winning team we've played in that period are the Rams, Goff was also injured himself during that game. The Cardinals are 8-8, but they were on a losing streak when we played them -- dropping 6 of their last 9 games. Kyler Murray is also the only notable healthy QB that we've gone against in that span.

    Beathard, Colt McCoy, Carson Wentz, injured Goff, Sam Darnold, and Dwayne Hashkins aren't exactly world beaters. So, yes while we won 7 out of 8 I think attributing that to Pete Ball is a bit of a erroneous. The fortunes of the Seahawks defense shifted when we acquired Carlos Dunlap, Flowers got replaced by Reed, and Jamal Adams became healthy. This revised defense also has not faced real competition yet. I think they are good, but not as good as we're seeing at the moment. We're going to have to go through the likes of Brees, Rodgers, or Brady in order to get to the Super Bowl, perhaps two of these guys. You think that what we're doing now is going to cut it against those teams?

    This is the problem with Pete Ball, and it has been the problem with it all along. It is punished with extreme prejudice by better teams in the postseason. Last minutes heroics against the 49ers are cool and all, but that kind of play won't cut it against the likes of the Bucs, Saints, or Packers. It's exactly the same thing that has happened to the Seahawks for the last five years now.


    AMEN!
    falcongoggles
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  • Scorpion05 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Wilson better get better quickly cause yeah, after a while, blaming coaches become tiresome, Wilson needs to put his football distractions to the side and get better, because it does NOT get easier!


    See I think this is who Russell is, a top 5 and at times falls off to more of a top 10 QB.

    I never bought into the let Russ cook Russell of the first five games, I knew that had more to do with a VERY polished and experienced offense being way ahead of average to below average defenses that had ZERO time to practice and prepare because of covid.

    Far more than some conscious change of offensive philosophy, or Russell all of a sudden turning on a superhero switch.

    I love Russell, I'm glad he's our franchise QB for the next 10 years on his way to the Hall of Fame. But this is who he is, a smart prepared elusive and clutch QB that can manage a game and run around and make explosive plays when you need him too.

    So he and others can tell us all they want about how he wants to be the greatest QB of all time and win MVP's every year, but IMO that's probably never going to happen, because he's not Aaron Rodgers, he's not Drew Brees, he's not Tom Brady in his prime. Guys that can carry the load game in, game out, year in, year out.

    He needs that run game and defense, and the good news is he has that now.


    Well at least we are under no illusions that you don't put your feelings and bias first, ahead of facts.

    Russ can make every throw. The first 5-6 weeks of the season was indicative of great O-line protection (which is what Rodgers, Brees, etc. gets), and him making pin point accurate throws.

    The actual FACTS, shows that Seattle was passing on neutral downs more compared to past years. In fact, even with a decent running game we are still statistically a pass first team. The running game has only been dominant in ONE game, the Washington game. And in that game, Russ accounted for over 40 of those yards.

    Also, can you name ONE great QB who has gone far without a running game or defense. Name one, since you're not at all biased. You can't possibly love Russell if you also have an agenda to ignore any and all objective facts that contradict your point.


    Why do you and everyone else keep holding up the first five weeks of the season as the holy grail of proof, and not the middle of the season, or the end of the season?

    Kinda disingenuous don't you think to not use the sum of the whole of this season, and the past 10 years for that matter as to who Russell is as QB?

    You wanna blame Pete for Russell not playing as well as he did the first part of the season? Go ahead, but IMO it's you and others that aren't being honest with yourselves.......because if you were you'd stop typing "WELL WHAT ABOUT THE FIRST FIVE GAMES!!"

    As a whole Russell is a fantastic elite QB in the league, but he cannot carry a team on his own, and is far more effective with a good run game and solid defense.

    So to just allow him and the offense to be some high flying one dimensional offense throwing the ball all over the place risking turnovers is not a very smart strategy come December and January.

    I also find it hilarious that people are calling me out for being a Russell hater, but this entire thread is yet another Pete hate thread.

    Hypocrite much?
    Sgt. Largent
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  • Russ being a great QB and saying he needs to be better are not mutually exclusive, I don't understand why some people don't get this.
    iigakusei
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    Posts: 1787
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 7:14 am


  • The Pete Ball thing worries me for the playoffs and I think it is behind a lot of our struggles in the playoffs since the SB loss.

    The military had (has?) a phrase : "Fight like you train". Whatever you spent most of your time preparing and practicing to do, is likely how you will respond in the heat of the moment. You could make the argument this team has honed playing PeteBall to a sharp edge and tends to fall into it. Even when counterproductive.

    We have spent at least half the year running this brainless version of offense that does not fully leverage Wilson's strengths.

    Considering the impact on the salary cap, elite QBs must produce at an elite level, consistently or at least in the playoffs, to make up for how they hamstring their team's ability to be competitive in other areas.

    To expect to go into the playoffs and suddenly expect Wilson to carry this team with his greatness, ignores the reality that we haven't really played that way all year and expecting us to shift gears to suddenly count on being productive with him isn't massively rational.

    (Yes, he threw a number of picks in the 'Russ Cook' phase - but as pointed out, he knew that if he did not score TDs he was going to fall behind as his defense was damned sure going to give up TDs. )

    PeteBall doesn't seem to work in the playoffs outside of wildcard games. Shifting away from it in the playoffs might be hard because that is what our team is used to playing.

    Wilson is a streak-ish QB anyway but this seems to exacerbate it.
    Last edited by TwistedHusky on Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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