Firmly believe Pete behind Russell's Struggles

chris98251 · Jan 4, 2021

In his post game he must have said we won due to not having turnovers and winning the turnover battle 6 times.

He is one of those guys that echo things to embed them in your thoughts. I really think the surge in INT's Russ had for that stretch got him a ass chewing. Russell is not a guy that says screw it I am doing it my way anyway.

That and watching the extra ordinary throw away's and as well as not threading passes into tighter windows like he was earlier this year enforces this thought.

Would like to just blame bad game or was hurt or Schotty called a bad game but I don't think so.

We have seen Pete go extreme before regarding this and shut Russell down except 4th quarter heroics before.

Thoughts?

getnasty · Jan 4, 2021

My thoughts
-I don't think Russ is getting an ass chewing.
-Why won't Pete put an emphasis on turnovers?
-There was a change in philosophy after the Rams game, not only to protect the ball but also to help the defense.
-We've turned the ball over in games we've lost.
-Not exciting to watch but we've won 7 of 8 with Pete ball.
-If Russ wants to be regarded as a great he needs to be better despite the limitations of the offense.

Spin Doctor · Jan 4, 2021

getnasty":2vbufpsi said:
My thoughts
-I don't think Russ is getting an ass chewing.
-Why won't Pete put an emphasis on turnovers?
-There was a change in philosophy after the Rams game, not only to protect the ball but also to help the defense.
-We've turned the ball over in games we've lost.
-Not exciting to watch but we've won 7 of 8 with Pete ball.
-If Russ wants to be regarded as a great he needs to be better despite the limitations of the offense.

We have also not played many teams worth noting. The only winning team we've played in that period are the Rams, Goff was also injured himself during that game. The Cardinals are 8-8, but they were on a losing streak when we played them -- dropping 6 of their last 9 games. Kyler Murray is also the only notable healthy QB that we've gone against in that span.

Beathard, Colt McCoy, Carson Wentz, injured Goff, Sam Darnold, and Dwayne Hashkins aren't exactly world beaters. So, yes while we won 7 out of 8 I think attributing that to Pete Ball is a bit of a erroneous. The fortunes of the Seahawks defense shifted when we acquired Carlos Dunlap, Flowers got replaced by Reed, and Jamal Adams became healthy. This revised defense also has not faced real competition yet. I think they are good, but not as good as we're seeing at the moment. We're going to have to go through the likes of Brees, Rodgers, or Brady in order to get to the Super Bowl, perhaps two of these guys. You think that what we're doing now is going to cut it against those teams?

This is the problem with Pete Ball, and it has been the problem with it all along. It is punished with extreme prejudice by better teams in the postseason. Last minutes heroics against the 49ers are cool and all, but that kind of play won't cut it against the likes of the Bucs, Saints, or Packers. It's exactly the same thing that has happened to the Seahawks for the last five years now.

jamescasey1124 · Jan 4, 2021

Russ is not struggling.

Man I'm tired of talking about this. Defenses can be dominant too. And qbs cant make every single pass perfect. What you are seeing is not a qb struggling...rather than an offensive line which cant pass block...long going no where covered routes and russ trying to just do what he can knowing he will be hit.

Plus our run game isnt breaking off 20 yarders here and there spot running the ball. Specially when defenses can tell we are running. Enough with the russ struggling crap. I know at times he has looked like mr perfect, but he isnt. Neither are you. QBs are allowed to miss a pass here and there. No one talks about the dropped passes and tipped nterceptions. They only want to point fingers at one person in a team game.

It's to much guys. Address the real concerns. Including pete handcuffing first half offense. Dont try to fabricate new issues. Russ will make alot of dumb comments just go away. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

Also, if russ is really struggling...how do you feel about the sudden flip of switch in the 3rd and 4th quarters? Like how the hell is it this easy for our offense to score at will, but didnt do it the first half. If russ was really struggling could he have taken them down the field on two successive drives to take the lead and then extra scores beat the niners yesterday? Answer is no....

xray · Jan 4, 2021

Wilson and Carroll watch the Ali / Foreman fight before every game and deploy the ' rope a dope ' game plan . Just a drunken theory I have on game day . WFT else could it be ? :irishdrinkers:

getnasty · Jan 4, 2021

Seahawk offense averages 1.9 points more in the second half of games compared to first half.

The defense gives up 3.5 more points in the second half compared to the 1st. First half defense is actaully 3rd best in the league on a ppg basis.

SoulfishHawk · Jan 4, 2021

Here we go again. He carried the team to victory in the 4th quarter, AGAIN. 12th win of the season.
They scored 20, 20, and 26 against 3 top 10 defenses.
But yeah, he's "struggling"
The team in general was VERY flat for most of the first 3 quarters. But they scored 20 points in the 4th quarter. Why does it matter how they WON? Why is it always on Russ as the reason the offense struggles? What about horrific play calling? Can he play better, hell yes. But after 9 years of this, plenty are still whining and moaning about the guy after WINS. They don't win this game, and they are not even close to 12-4 w/out him. Period. We have seen ugly first half play and scoring for YEARS, why surprised when they turn it on in the 2nd half? This is nothing new. It's annoying, but it's how they do things.

4,212 Yards
40 Touchdowns
13 Picks

Yeah, what a "struggle" he has had this season. His Pass blocking has been horrific at times this year.

Nunya · Jan 4, 2021

So an offense that set the franchise record for most points scored in a season is considered to be "struggling"?

The offense does not look very sharp on every series, but it is far from "struggling". What we are seeing is the same things that happens on EVERY team. Some series they can't move the ball and some series they look unstoppable. That is what happens when the Defense for the other team is made up of pro players as well.

Hockey Guy · Jan 4, 2021

Yeah, I'm not getting into any "Pete Ball" discussion.

The goal posts move too wildly.

HawkRiderFan · Jan 4, 2021

The one specific thing that has me concerned is are guys not getting open downfield? Which is hard to believe with Metcalf and Lockett. Seemed yesterday on the plays where he had time Russ couldn't find anyone and had to hold the ball. Impossible to know without looking at the All-22 and seeing the guys downfield.

Appyhawk · Jan 4, 2021

I agree with Pete that not turning the ball over has been a significant factor for our winning streak. 13 turnovers by Russ was too much to overcome in those losses. But in overview, here we are. AGAIN...complaining about another win.

jamescasey1124 · Jan 4, 2021

Appyhawk":3l6h3go4 said:
I agree with Pete that not turning the ball over has been a significant factor for our winning streak. 13 turnovers by Russ was too much to overcome in those losses. But in overview, here we are. AGAIN...complaining about another win.

I wouldnt say complaining about another win as opposed to some people trying to pin specific blame on players as opposed to a team concept.

By the way just cuz russ throws the ball doesnt mean he is in full control of all the turnovers. Fumbles and blantant direct interceptions yes...but tipped balls, batted or poor snaps?

Russ isnt the only one playing out there.

Appyhawk · Jan 4, 2021

True James. It takes a TEAM. And winning the TO battle is a big part of "Pete Ball". He's made that very clear. Russ's turnover picks came in a flurry following a perfect 5 game stretch. Some were flukes caused by good defensive plays, but others were simply lack of touch or poor decisions by Russ. He isn't perfect.
When we lose it's usually a matter of losing the turnover battle to a team that is playing better "Pete Ball" than we are.

jamescasey1124 · Jan 4, 2021

Appyhawk":6xoug4a2 said:
True James. It takes a TEAM. And winning the TO battle is a big part of "Pete Ball". He's made that very clear. Russ's turnover picks came in a flurry following a perfect 5 game stretch. Some were flukes caused by good defensive plays, but others were simply lack of touch or poor decisions by Russ. He isn't perfect.
When we lose it's usually a matter of losing the turnover battle to a team that is playing better "Pete Ball" than we are.

Spot on...

SoulfishHawk · Jan 4, 2021

Even or + in the turnover battle: 12-0 this year
That says it all.

TwistedHusky · Jan 4, 2021

Recognizing the amazing things that Pete has done does not have to be mutually exclusive with pointing out how his weaknesses can negatively impact team production or player production.

Pete built this program. We win because of it.

There was a thread a few days ago about potentially losing JS and whether you are happy with his 1st round picks or his penchant for trades that do not work out, you cannot argue that he and Pete have not turned this team into a top 10 roster if not a top 5.

But Pete is a below average gameday coach that comes to the table with simplistic game plans regularly. And he forces game plans despite the opponent or even our own ability to execute (ie whether it is best for our roster).

If we could somehow lock Pete in a closet on gamedays and allow almost any other above-average coach to call the plays, we probably have another SB win - we almost certainly have another SB. It is the opinion of many here, myself included, that our coordinators are given very short leashes, very specific directives, and are not allowed to freely call plays like many coordinators in the league.

So it makes sense that people would see that and pine for better gameday production from the staff.

So after seeing the difference changing a coach that holds a QB back can make (see Green Bay), and knowing just how significant great QB play can be to team success - it makes sense that people would be upset to see the coaching staff hold back our QB.

I mean Reid looked like a playoff failure until he got Mahomes. The difference a great QB can make in making a good coach look great (or great coach look good without one) is immense. Carroll has a Mahomes, and he frankly is doing nothing more than wildcard wins lately.

Should we be getting better results with our own version of Mahomes? Or is Wilson just not in the Rodgers and Mahomes tier?

The problem is that unleashing Wilson didn't work out well. Can you pin that all on Carroll? I doubt it. Would an offensive system specifically built around him with a great offensive coach make us better? It sure did in GB, where Rodgers went from looking like his time was over to looking like a much better QB than Wilson this year.

If you believe that Wilson is in that Mahomes/Rodgers tier - then Carroll is underproducing with him. If you don't then Pete is actually extracting wins with this team that Wilson might not deliver with another coach.

jamescasey1124 · Jan 4, 2021

HawkRiderFan":2zr6t5pq said:
The one specific thing that has me concerned is are guys not getting open downfield? Which is hard to believe with Metcalf and Lockett. Seemed yesterday on the plays where he had time Russ couldn't find anyone and had to hold the ball. Impossible to know without looking at the All-22 and seeing the guys downfield.

This is one of my key beliefs that it is a part of a bigger plan. No way can we have guys just running downfield unopen with their talent level and russ cant find them. Unless they are purposely doing it, because bam later in the game they seem to get open like nobody's business.

jamescasey1124 · Jan 4, 2021

TwistedHusky":1nksm5wi said:
Recognizing the amazing things that Pete has done does not have to be mutually exclusive with pointing out how his weaknesses can negatively impact team production or player production.

Pete built this program. We win because of it.

There was a thread a few days ago about potentially losing JS and whether you are happy with his 1st round picks or his penchant for trades that do not work out, you cannot argue that he and Pete have not turned this team into a top 10 roster if not a top 5.

But Pete is a below average gameday coach that comes to the table with simplistic game plans regularly. And he forces game plans despite the opponent or even our own ability to execute (ie whether it is best for our roster).

If we could somehow lock Pete in a closet on gamedays and allow almost any other above-average coach to call the plays, we probably have another SB win - we almost certainly have another SB. It is the opinion of many here, myself included, that our coordinators are given very short leashes, very specific directives, and are not allowed to freely call plays like many coordinators in the league.

So it makes sense that people would see that and pine for better gameday production from the staff.

So after seeing the difference changing a coach that holds a QB back can make (see Green Bay), and knowing just how significant great QB play can be to team success - it makes sense that people would be upset to see the coaching staff hold back our QB.

I mean Reid looked like a playoff failure until he got Mahomes. The difference a great QB can make in making a good coach look great (or great coach look good without one) is immense. Carroll has a Mahomes, and he frankly is doing nothing more than wildcard wins lately.

Should we be getting better results with our own version of Mahomes? Or is Wilson just not in the Rodgers and Mahomes tier?

The problem is that unleashing Wilson didn't work out well. Can you pin that all on Carroll? I doubt it. Would an offensive system specifically built around him with a great offensive coach make us better? It sure did in GB, where Rodgers went from looking like his time was over to looking like a much better QB than Wilson this year.

If you believe that Wilson is in that Mahomes/Rodgers tier - then Carroll is underproducing with him. If you don't then Pete is actually extracting wins with this team that Wilson might not deliver with another coach.

While I am with you on most of this...you lost me at listing mahomes above wilson. We saw what Wilson has done over years upon years now, breaking records and being easily better than his counterparts. Just because he has ten less tds then either rodgers, mahomes and allen doesnt mean he is in a lower tier. Wilson did pan out unleashing. See first five games this season....and multiple seasons before. By the end if his career he will be undoubtedly the best qb to ever play if he keeps it up five to 5 more years. Not to mention...these last few weeks in have seen some defense eat away at mahomes overall ceiling. Mahomes is still great dont get me wrong, but it's way to early to put him ahead of anybody named rodgers, wilson or brady.

Next subject...I'm not so sure pete needs to be locked in a closet. For the same reasons you counter explained above. He got us here in the first place.

However, he can stand to allow for more production and not be so opposed to laying teams flat.

Pete is just more about gamesmanship than wins, even though the wins are still rolling in.

TwistedHusky · Jan 4, 2021

Mahomes is playing better football than Wilson. Going farther in the playoffs. And will likely go farther this year.

Nobody outside of Seattle would put Wilson over Mahomes. Likely a fifth of our fans would not.

Ranking Wilson over Mahomes takes a lot of mental gymnastics. Maybe Wilson is the better QB.

But Wilson+Carroll < Mahomes+Reid by almost any measure in the past few years.

And there is little chance that Wilson+Carroll goes farther in the playoffs than Mahomes+Reid. Almost zero.

Maybe Wilson COULD be a better QB than Mahomes under another coach. But this year, Mahomes in his system is better than Wilson in his. Not even sure what you could dispute about that.

SoulfishHawk · Jan 4, 2021

Mahomes is the best QB in the league, period. Hawks have their guy, KC has their guy, GB has their guy. NO has their guy.
Every one of those teams have clutch QB's who can take them to a title.

Firmly believe Pete behind Russell's Struggles

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