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Firmly believe Pete behind Russell's Struggles

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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Wilson better get better quickly cause yeah, after a while, blaming coaches become tiresome, Wilson needs to put his football distractions to the side and get better, because it does NOT get easier!


    See I think this is who Russell is, a top 5 and at times falls off to more of a top 10 QB.

    I never bought into the let Russ cook Russell of the first five games, I knew that had more to do with a VERY polished and experienced offense being way ahead of average to below average defenses that had ZERO time to practice and prepare because of covid.

    Far more than some conscious change of offensive philosophy, or Russell all of a sudden turning on a superhero switch.

    I love Russell, I'm glad he's our franchise QB for the next 10 years on his way to the Hall of Fame. But this is who he is, a smart prepared elusive and clutch QB that can manage a game and run around and make explosive plays when you need him too.

    So he and others can tell us all they want about how he wants to be the greatest QB of all time and win MVP's every year, but IMO that's probably never going to happen, because he's not Aaron Rodgers, he's not Drew Brees, he's not Tom Brady in his prime. Guys that can carry the load game in, game out, year in, year out.

    He needs that run game and defense, and the good news is he has that now.


    Well at least we are under no illusions that you don't put your feelings and bias first, ahead of facts.

    Russ can make every throw. The first 5-6 weeks of the season was indicative of great O-line protection (which is what Rodgers, Brees, etc. gets), and him making pin point accurate throws.

    The actual FACTS, shows that Seattle was passing on neutral downs more compared to past years. In fact, even with a decent running game we are still statistically a pass first team. The running game has only been dominant in ONE game, the Washington game. And in that game, Russ accounted for over 40 of those yards.

    Also, can you name ONE great QB who has gone far without a running game or defense. Name one, since you're not at all biased. You can't possibly love Russell if you also have an agenda to ignore any and all objective facts that contradict your point.


    Why do you and everyone else keep holding up the first five weeks of the season as the holy grail of proof, and not the middle of the season, or the end of the season?

    Kinda disingenuous don't you think to not use the sum of the whole of this season, and the past 10 years for that matter as to who Russell is as QB?

    You wanna blame Pete for Russell not playing as well as he did the first part of the season? Go ahead, but IMO it's you and others that aren't being honest with yourselves.......because if you were you'd stop typing "WELL WHAT ABOUT THE FIRST FIVE GAMES!!"

    As a whole Russell is a fantastic elite QB in the league, but he cannot carry a team on his own, and is far more effective with a good run game and solid defense.

    So to just allow him and the offense to be some high flying one dimensional offense throwing the ball all over the place risking turnovers is not a very smart strategy come December and January.

    I also find it hilarious that people are calling me out for being a Russell hater, but this entire thread is yet another Pete hate thread.

    Hypocrite much?


    Well, according to jamescasey, I am also a Wilson hater. Welcome to the club. Those that see things differently, objectively, are labeled haters.

    Don’t know why people here aren’t even a little nervous about facing the Rams. McVay has had Carroll’s number for a while now. You don’t want to play your division rivals a third time. Especially, since they are very motivated to play you a third time. This game is going to be physically brutal.
    TheLegendOfBoom
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  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    See I think this is who Russell is, a top 5 and at times falls off to more of a top 10 QB.

    I never bought into the let Russ cook Russell of the first five games, I knew that had more to do with a VERY polished and experienced offense being way ahead of average to below average defenses that had ZERO time to practice and prepare because of covid.

    Far more than some conscious change of offensive philosophy, or Russell all of a sudden turning on a superhero switch.

    I love Russell, I'm glad he's our franchise QB for the next 10 years on his way to the Hall of Fame. But this is who he is, a smart prepared elusive and clutch QB that can manage a game and run around and make explosive plays when you need him too.

    So he and others can tell us all they want about how he wants to be the greatest QB of all time and win MVP's every year, but IMO that's probably never going to happen, because he's not Aaron Rodgers, he's not Drew Brees, he's not Tom Brady in his prime. Guys that can carry the load game in, game out, year in, year out.

    He needs that run game and defense, and the good news is he has that now.


    Well at least we are under no illusions that you don't put your feelings and bias first, ahead of facts.

    Russ can make every throw. The first 5-6 weeks of the season was indicative of great O-line protection (which is what Rodgers, Brees, etc. gets), and him making pin point accurate throws.

    The actual FACTS, shows that Seattle was passing on neutral downs more compared to past years. In fact, even with a decent running game we are still statistically a pass first team. The running game has only been dominant in ONE game, the Washington game. And in that game, Russ accounted for over 40 of those yards.

    Also, can you name ONE great QB who has gone far without a running game or defense. Name one, since you're not at all biased. You can't possibly love Russell if you also have an agenda to ignore any and all objective facts that contradict your point.


    Why do you and everyone else keep holding up the first five weeks of the season as the holy grail of proof, and not the middle of the season, or the end of the season?

    Kinda disingenuous don't you think to not use the sum of the whole of this season, and the past 10 years for that matter as to who Russell is as QB?

    You wanna blame Pete for Russell not playing as well as he did the first part of the season? Go ahead, but IMO it's you and others that aren't being honest with yourselves.......because if you were you'd stop typing "WELL WHAT ABOUT THE FIRST FIVE GAMES!!"

    As a whole Russell is a fantastic elite QB in the league, but he cannot carry a team on his own, and is far more effective with a good run game and solid defense.

    So to just allow him and the offense to be some high flying one dimensional offense throwing the ball all over the place risking turnovers is not a very smart strategy come December and January.

    I also find it hilarious that people are calling me out for being a Russell hater, but this entire thread is yet another Pete hate thread.

    Hypocrite much?


    Well, according to jamescasey, I am also a Wilson hater. Welcome to the club. Those that see things differently, objectively, are labeled haters.

    Don’t know why people here aren’t even a little nervous about facing the Rams. McVay has had Carroll’s number for a while now. You don’t want to play your division rivals a third time. Especially, since they are very motivated to play you a third time. This game is going to be physically brutal.


    Well when you are hating...expect to be called out for it go ahead a look back through this thread...I called largent a hater too. You guys can have your club and opinions. So will i... but dont get but hurt cuz someone called you on your bs.

    I'm not worried about the rams. Dont care what the past says. The best point is that neither you or me control who wins this next playoff game. Rams or Seahawks. Not last week, not the superbowl, not any game the seahawks have played. All we can do is talk about it.

    What is the point of being worried about something you cant control? Instead of sitting back and enjoying what the team is doing?

    Oh I know...you'll be here...on the board for days talking about I told you so...

    Still I dont see it. Go hawks!!!
    jamescasey1124
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  • Who isn't nervous about facing the Rams? It's the playoff's, there's always going to be nervous excitement.
    But it's a hell of a lot better than doom and gloom.
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  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:
    Well at least we are under no illusions that you don't put your feelings and bias first, ahead of facts.

    Russ can make every throw. The first 5-6 weeks of the season was indicative of great O-line protection (which is what Rodgers, Brees, etc. gets), and him making pin point accurate throws.

    The actual FACTS, shows that Seattle was passing on neutral downs more compared to past years. In fact, even with a decent running game we are still statistically a pass first team. The running game has only been dominant in ONE game, the Washington game. And in that game, Russ accounted for over 40 of those yards.

    Also, can you name ONE great QB who has gone far without a running game or defense. Name one, since you're not at all biased. You can't possibly love Russell if you also have an agenda to ignore any and all objective facts that contradict your point.


    Why do you and everyone else keep holding up the first five weeks of the season as the holy grail of proof, and not the middle of the season, or the end of the season?

    Kinda disingenuous don't you think to not use the sum of the whole of this season, and the past 10 years for that matter as to who Russell is as QB?

    You wanna blame Pete for Russell not playing as well as he did the first part of the season? Go ahead, but IMO it's you and others that aren't being honest with yourselves.......because if you were you'd stop typing "WELL WHAT ABOUT THE FIRST FIVE GAMES!!"

    As a whole Russell is a fantastic elite QB in the league, but he cannot carry a team on his own, and is far more effective with a good run game and solid defense.

    So to just allow him and the offense to be some high flying one dimensional offense throwing the ball all over the place risking turnovers is not a very smart strategy come December and January.

    I also find it hilarious that people are calling me out for being a Russell hater, but this entire thread is yet another Pete hate thread.

    Hypocrite much?


    Well, according to jamescasey, I am also a Wilson hater. Welcome to the club. Those that see things differently, objectively, are labeled haters.

    Don’t know why people here aren’t even a little nervous about facing the Rams. McVay has had Carroll’s number for a while now. You don’t want to play your division rivals a third time. Especially, since they are very motivated to play you a third time. This game is going to be physically brutal.


    Well when you are hating...expect to be called out for it go ahead a look back through this thread...I called largent a hater too. You guys can have your club and opinions. So will i... but dont get but hurt cuz someone called you on your bs.

    I'm not worried about the rams. Dont care what the past says. The best point is that neither you or me control who wins this next playoff game. Rams or Seahawks. Not last week, not the superbowl, not any game the seahawks have played. All we can do is talk about it.

    What is the point of being worried about something you cant control? Instead of sitting back and enjoying what the team is doing?

    Oh I know...you'll be here...on the board for days talking about I told you so...

    Still I dont see it. Go hawks!!!

    Not that I care or anything, and I can always count on you to rub people here the wrong way, but didn’t you say you had enough of the people here, and you were tired of explaining to everyone, that you are smarter than everyone, so you decided to leave? Why are you back, if you despise everyone on here so much?

    I also recall you got banned?

    How did you manage to get reinstated?

    Can you give Josh Gordon some reinstatement pointers?

    Thanks!
    TheLegendOfBoom
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  • We all know what Carroll is by now.

    Run first, ball control, good defense

    Outscoring teams 45-42 doesn't work as well in the playoffs.

    I don't know what happened to Rusty - marital stuff, death in the family, maybe just some off games.

    He's a really good quarterback. He's not an all time great at this point.
    fire_marshall_bill
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  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Why do you and everyone else keep holding up the first five weeks of the season as the holy grail of proof, and not the middle of the season, or the end of the season?

    Kinda disingenuous don't you think to not use the sum of the whole of this season, and the past 10 years for that matter as to who Russell is as QB?

    You wanna blame Pete for Russell not playing as well as he did the first part of the season? Go ahead, but IMO it's you and others that aren't being honest with yourselves.......because if you were you'd stop typing "WELL WHAT ABOUT THE FIRST FIVE GAMES!!"

    As a whole Russell is a fantastic elite QB in the league, but he cannot carry a team on his own, and is far more effective with a good run game and solid defense.

    So to just allow him and the offense to be some high flying one dimensional offense throwing the ball all over the place risking turnovers is not a very smart strategy come December and January.

    I also find it hilarious that people are calling me out for being a Russell hater, but this entire thread is yet another Pete hate thread.

    Hypocrite much?


    Well, according to jamescasey, I am also a Wilson hater. Welcome to the club. Those that see things differently, objectively, are labeled haters.

    Don’t know why people here aren’t even a little nervous about facing the Rams. McVay has had Carroll’s number for a while now. You don’t want to play your division rivals a third time. Especially, since they are very motivated to play you a third time. This game is going to be physically brutal.


    Well when you are hating...expect to be called out for it go ahead a look back through this thread...I called largent a hater too. You guys can have your club and opinions. So will i... but dont get but hurt cuz someone called you on your bs.

    I'm not worried about the rams. Dont care what the past says. The best point is that neither you or me control who wins this next playoff game. Rams or Seahawks. Not last week, not the superbowl, not any game the seahawks have played. All we can do is talk about it.

    What is the point of being worried about something you cant control? Instead of sitting back and enjoying what the team is doing?

    Oh I know...you'll be here...on the board for days talking about I told you so...

    Still I dont see it. Go hawks!!!

    Not that I care or anything, and I can always count on you to rub people here the wrong way, but didn’t you say you had enough of the people here, and you were tired of explaining to everyone, that you are smarter than everyone, so you decided to leave? Why are you back, if you despise everyone on here so much?

    I also recall you got banned?

    How did you manage to get reinstated?

    Can you give Josh Gordon some reinstatement pointers?

    Thanks!


    Actually...
    While you are pointing that out...
    I said what I said and maybe you need to reread it. Because I never said any of that until someone else claimed I was smarter than everyone else. Which was not my words. But it's cool you keep me in mind.

    Yes i did get banned, but here i am to clean up your whining ass posts to describe our team on how you view it to be so poorly, even though they are winning.

    Man I'm glad to be here today. Maybe i can get banned again cussing you out and the mods out.

    Haha.

    Oh I dont rub on anyone by the way. That's a little far fetched. I'm more than willing to give you the business when you make ignorant comments though.

    As far as reinstated...idk...go ask your friends. I talked to your mom and she gave me the ok.

    Funny how that works.
    Last edited by jamescasey1124 on Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
    jamescasey1124
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  • Russ isn't an all time great? Now THAT is funny.
    You're not supposed to drink the bong water.
    SoulfishHawk
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  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Well, according to jamescasey, I am also a Wilson hater. Welcome to the club. Those that see things differently, objectively, are labeled haters.

    Don’t know why people here aren’t even a little nervous about facing the Rams. McVay has had Carroll’s number for a while now. You don’t want to play your division rivals a third time. Especially, since they are very motivated to play you a third time. This game is going to be physically brutal.


    Well when you are hating...expect to be called out for it go ahead a look back through this thread...I called largent a hater too. You guys can have your club and opinions. So will i... but dont get but hurt cuz someone called you on your bs.

    I'm not worried about the rams. Dont care what the past says. The best point is that neither you or me control who wins this next playoff game. Rams or Seahawks. Not last week, not the superbowl, not any game the seahawks have played. All we can do is talk about it.

    What is the point of being worried about something you cant control? Instead of sitting back and enjoying what the team is doing?

    Oh I know...you'll be here...on the board for days talking about I told you so...

    Still I dont see it. Go hawks!!!

    Not that I care or anything, and I can always count on you to rub people here the wrong way, but didn’t you say you had enough of the people here, and you were tired of explaining to everyone, that you are smarter than everyone, so you decided to leave? Why are you back, if you despise everyone on here so much?

    I also recall you got banned?

    How did you manage to get reinstated?

    Can you give Josh Gordon some reinstatement pointers?

    Thanks!




    Yes i did get banned, but here i am to clean up your whining ass posts to describe our team on how you view it to be so poorly, even though they are winning.

    Man I'm glad to be here today. Maybe i can get banned again cussing you out and the mods out.

    Haha.

    Oh I dont rub on anyone by the way. That's a little far fetched. I'm more than willing to give you the business when you make ignorant comments though.

    As far as reinstated...idk...go ask your friends. I talked to your mom and she gave me the ok.

    Funny how that works.


    Please, by all means, feel absolutely free to do so....I’m sure the mods will enjoy that.
    TheLegendOfBoom
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  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    Well when you are hating...expect to be called out for it go ahead a look back through this thread...I called largent a hater too. You guys can have your club and opinions. So will i... but dont get but hurt cuz someone called you on your bs.

    I'm not worried about the rams. Dont care what the past says. The best point is that neither you or me control who wins this next playoff game. Rams or Seahawks. Not last week, not the superbowl, not any game the seahawks have played. All we can do is talk about it.

    What is the point of being worried about something you cant control? Instead of sitting back and enjoying what the team is doing?

    Oh I know...you'll be here...on the board for days talking about I told you so...

    Still I dont see it. Go hawks!!!

    Not that I care or anything, and I can always count on you to rub people here the wrong way, but didn’t you say you had enough of the people here, and you were tired of explaining to everyone, that you are smarter than everyone, so you decided to leave? Why are you back, if you despise everyone on here so much?

    I also recall you got banned?

    How did you manage to get reinstated?

    Can you give Josh Gordon some reinstatement pointers?

    Thanks!




    Yes i did get banned, but here i am to clean up your whining ass posts to describe our team on how you view it to be so poorly, even though they are winning.

    Man I'm glad to be here today. Maybe i can get banned again cussing you out and the mods out.

    Haha.

    Oh I dont rub on anyone by the way. That's a little far fetched. I'm more than willing to give you the business when you make ignorant comments though.

    As far as reinstated...idk...go ask your friends. I talked to your mom and she gave me the ok.

    Funny how that works.


    Please, by all means, feel absolutely free to do so....I’m sure the mods will enjoy that.


    There we go...atleast we agree on something. See seahawks fans. Compromise does exist.
    jamescasey1124
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  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    Well when you are hating...expect to be called out for it go ahead a look back through this thread...I called largent a hater too. You guys can have your club and opinions. So will i... but dont get but hurt cuz someone called you on your bs.

    I'm not worried about the rams. Dont care what the past says. The best point is that neither you or me control who wins this next playoff game. Rams or Seahawks. Not last week, not the superbowl, not any game the seahawks have played. All we can do is talk about it.

    What is the point of being worried about something you cant control? Instead of sitting back and enjoying what the team is doing?

    Oh I know...you'll be here...on the board for days talking about I told you so...

    Still I dont see it. Go hawks!!!


    Which part of what I said is BS?

    A. The Russell's an elite top 5 QB
    B. Russell's a future HOF QB
    C. Russell plays better with a good defense and run game
    D. I don't think he's on the same level as Rodgers and Brees and Brady in their prime
    E. My names jamescasey and I really don't know what I'm yelling about but it feels amazing
    Sgt. Largent
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    Well when you are hating...expect to be called out for it go ahead a look back through this thread...I called largent a hater too. You guys can have your club and opinions. So will i... but dont get but hurt cuz someone called you on your bs.

    I'm not worried about the rams. Dont care what the past says. The best point is that neither you or me control who wins this next playoff game. Rams or Seahawks. Not last week, not the superbowl, not any game the seahawks have played. All we can do is talk about it.

    What is the point of being worried about something you cant control? Instead of sitting back and enjoying what the team is doing?

    Oh I know...you'll be here...on the board for days talking about I told you so...

    Still I dont see it. Go hawks!!!


    Which part of what I said is BS?

    A. The Russell's an elite top 5 QB
    B. Russell's a future HOF QB
    C. Russell plays better with a good defense and run game
    D. I don't think he's on the same level as Rodgers and Brees and Brady in their prime
    E. My names jamescasey and I really don't know what I'm yelling about but it feels amazing

    Lol
    TheLegendOfBoom
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  • So he and others can tell us all they want about how he wants to be the greatest QB of all time and win MVP's every year, but IMO that's probably never going to happen, because he's not Aaron Rodgers, he's not Drew Brees, he's not Tom Brady in his prime. Guys that can carry the load game in, game out, year in, year out.[/quote]

    This is where you lost me. Not sure why it's hard to figure out. Though you stated he was elite...you went on to say he will never be them, while at the same time he is shattering their person stats and ahead of those stats at this time in his career aside bradys 6 superbowls. More wins, more tds, less interceptions-minus competing with rodgers low interception clip. But hey you do you boo boo.

    Like I said you and legend of whom can have you seahawks suck pity party and the hawks will do fine even when you are b!@ch about nothingness.
    Last edited by jamescasey1124 on Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • He has been carrying the team on his back his entire career in MANY of their wins, if not most. But let's ignore it. Because it's Russ.
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  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    This is where you lost me. Not sure why it's hard to figure out. Though you stated he was elite...you went on to say he will never be them, while at the same time he is shattering their person stats and beating ahead of those state at this time in his career aside bradys 6 superbowls. More wins, more tds, less interceptions-minus competing with rodgers low interception clip. But hey you do you boo boo.

    Like I said you and legend of whom can have you seahawks suck pity party and the hawks will do fine even when you are b!@ch about nothingness.


    I didn't say never, I said "probably," and this year proved it out. When Carson went down and the defense was still playing terrible, Russell had 10 turnovers in five games, and we lost four of those games........and most importantly the offense (under Pete) was still trying to play the same way it played in the first five games.

    So sorry, no I do not think he's at the level of those players, and probably never will be. But he's close. If they're 1a, he's 1b.

    Does Pete have something to do with that? Some, but I'm not ready to absolve Russell from taking the brunt of the blame, especially with some of his bad decisions for games, and even stretches of seasons.

    It's why he hasn't received an MVP vote, he's not at the level of Mahomes and Rodgers, or other QB's that carried their teams for entire seasons to #1 seeds and SB's.

    So yeah, blame Pete, but if we're handing out blame, Russell's 80% and Pete and his offense is 20% for me.
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  • Absolute putrid pass blocking, and it's 80 percent on Russ? Hmm.....
    SoulfishHawk
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Absolute putrid pass blocking, and it's 80 percent on Russ? Hmm.....


    I'll play you Soulfish................"Pfft, Russell turn the ball over 10 times in five games, goes through long stretches of games inconsistent, gets happy feet, can be indecisive, takes unnecessary sacks, intentional groundings, misses wide open receivers, spins into sacks and makes terrible decisions sometimes..........and it's all Pete's fault? Hmmm......"


    Look familiar?
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Recognizing the amazing things that Pete has done does not have to be mutually exclusive with pointing out how his weaknesses can negatively impact team production or player production.

    Pete built this program. We win because of it.

    There was a thread a few days ago about potentially losing JS and whether you are happy with his 1st round picks or his penchant for trades that do not work out, you cannot argue that he and Pete have not turned this team into a top 10 roster if not a top 5.

    But Pete is a below average gameday coach that comes to the table with simplistic game plans regularly. And he forces game plans despite the opponent or even our own ability to execute (ie whether it is best for our roster).

    If we could somehow lock Pete in a closet on gamedays and allow almost any other above-average coach to call the plays, we probably have another SB win - we almost certainly have another SB. It is the opinion of many here, myself included, that our coordinators are given very short leashes, very specific directives, and are not allowed to freely call plays like many coordinators in the league.

    So it makes sense that people would see that and pine for better gameday production from the staff.

    So after seeing the difference changing a coach that holds a QB back can make (see Green Bay), and knowing just how significant great QB play can be to team success - it makes sense that people would be upset to see the coaching staff hold back our QB.

    I mean Reid looked like a playoff failure until he got Mahomes. The difference a great QB can make in making a good coach look great (or great coach look good without one) is immense. Carroll has a Mahomes, and he frankly is doing nothing more than wildcard wins lately.

    Should we be getting better results with our own version of Mahomes? Or is Wilson just not in the Rodgers and Mahomes tier?

    The problem is that unleashing Wilson didn't work out well. Can you pin that all on Carroll? I doubt it. Would an offensive system specifically built around him with a great offensive coach make us better? It sure did in GB, where Rodgers went from looking like his time was over to looking like a much better QB than Wilson this year.

    If you believe that Wilson is in that Mahomes/Rodgers tier - then Carroll is underproducing with him. If you don't then Pete is actually extracting wins with this team that Wilson might not deliver with another coach.

    I agree with pretty much this entire post, particularly the section I highlighted in bold, which is something I've been saying for several years.

    Pete and JS have built a culture of winning here, and for that I will always be grateful. But the fact is, Pete is a control freak and micro-manager, and in my opinion, holds this team back at times. Great leader, great motivator, and below average X's and O's game day coach. The fact is, he's been riding RW's coattails for years.

    His micro-managing is something that has frustrated me a great deal over the years, but given the fact he's likely going to be our HC for the next 5 years, I'm making a concerted effort to accept that this is just who he is and roll with it. I'm tired of beating my head against the wall over something I have absolutely no control over. The fact is, we're competitive every year under Pete, and could have it a whole lot worse, so I'm just trying to enjoy the ride and hope for the best. It's hard to complain about being in the playoffs nearly every year, but I don't know that Pete will ever get us to another SB unless he changes his ways.

    I think he would be a great coach if he would surround himself with the right coordinators and allow them full autonomy. Particularly an OC who knows how to utilize the strengths of a QB like Russ, and not attempt to turn him into something he's not. With a mobile QB like RW, why are they not using more roll-outs, bootlegs, moving the pocket, all the things which put a whole lot more pressure on the opposing defenses? And particularly against teams with great pass rushes like the Rams and 49ers? It's my opinion that they are not utilizing him properly, or to his greatest strengths. He's always been better and more dynamic outside the pocket. Don't think anyone would argue otherwise. Our entire offensive system needs a complete overhaul. It's one of the most unimaginative and least creative systems in the league.

    Sadly, the thought of Pete turning over control to a top notch coordinator on either side of the ball would be a seismic shift for him, and is highly unlikely at this stage of his career.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Absolute putrid pass blocking, and it's 80 percent on Russ? Hmm.....


    I'll play you Soulfish................"Pfft, Russell turn the ball over 10 times in five games, goes through long stretches of games inconsistent, gets happy feet, can be indecisive, takes unnecessary sacks, intentional groundings, misses wide open receivers, spins into sacks and makes terrible decisions sometimes..........and it's all Pete's fault? Hmmm......"


    Look familiar?


    I'll play you Private Largent or hardly largent or shouldnt even have largent in his name. Ok...

    Ten turnovers I five games. Hmmm. How many of those turnovers were just bad throws, how many were picks, pick 6s, fumbles or maybe dropped passes. Hmmm...
    Yes russ throws the ball, but is a turnover completely his fault if the ball touches more hands than his? Answer no. I'll give you fumbles which i think he has one...on a bad snap, but i can only think of one interception he should of not thrown and that was to 31 William's on the rams, when trying to find olsen or dissly on a out route athe first game we played the rams.

    You guys are pitiful. Blaming one person instead of a team. Find something else to b!@ch about, because in playoff time you will see again why russ is the best now that the rest of his team is playing as well.
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  • Oh and I never blamed pete. I said handcuffing less would be ideal, but never once blamed pete for any struggles. That was the original poster.
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  • Pretty much where I am Gary.

    Without Pete, we never get to enjoy this ride. Period.

    But there is this nagging feeling that a lot of what Pete does not excel at...is what might make this incredible difference in Wilson becoming that Rodgers/Brees/Mahomes tier player (which he occasionally reaches but not consistently).

    I think Largent kind of nailed it. Wilson is great. Even HOF great. But not Rodger-esque or Brees-esque 'carry a team to multiple rounds in the playoffs despite glaring deficiencies on the other side of the ball' great. Exceptional QB, but not a guy that can consistently make up for gaping holes in his team or staff.

    Which is OK. Not every QB can do that. Most cannot. Plenty other QBs win SBs not being able to do that. But expecting our QB to do this then makes no sense. He likely won't.

    PeteBall does not help though. If anything it makes it less likely Wilson can contribute his full worth in the playoffs.
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  • Whatever you say, Largent.
    Arguing with you guys is like clapping with one hand.
    Have a great week, go Hawks
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  • A_Biased_Fan wrote:In my eyes, it's the lack of an elite scheme, like KC and GB have. They scheme guys open and both QB's have a good amount of easy throws throughout a game. You shouldn't have to rely on a QB constantly threading the needle and him making magic out of broken plays. That's not a formula for winning a title. Hopefully Schotty has just enough tricks in his sleeve for the playoffs.

    Bingo. Our offensive schemes are generally checkers while the KC and GB offensive schemes are generally chess. They both have great offenses built around the strengths of their quarterbacks. We do not. The best we do is show glimpses of running an offense designed for Wilson.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Whatever you say, Largent.
    Arguing with you guys is like clapping with one hand.
    Have a great week, go Hawks



    You need to understand there are a small but vocal groups who want so badly for Wilson to fail, to blame him for everything. Even back when he was playing lights out they were trying to find things to blame him for. He could go 30-31 and 600 yards and 6 tds and all they would talk about is the 1 he missed, or how the completed a 5 yarder but someone was open at 10. Thats what they do. They are just a group of blissful people, and you know what they say about being blissful.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    A_Biased_Fan wrote:In my eyes, it's the lack of an elite scheme, like KC and GB have. They scheme guys open and both QB's have a good amount of easy throws throughout a game. You shouldn't have to rely on a QB constantly threading the needle and him making magic out of broken plays. That's not a formula for winning a title. Hopefully Schotty has just enough tricks in his sleeve for the playoffs.

    Bingo. Our offensive schemes are generally checkers while the KC and GB offensive schemes are generally chess. They both have great offenses built around the strengths of their quarterbacks. We do not. The best we do is show glimpses of running an offense designed for Wilson.



    exactly, and they also adjust on the fly. We dont, we just keep hitting ourselves against the wall.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    A_Biased_Fan wrote:In my eyes, it's the lack of an elite scheme, like KC and GB have. They scheme guys open and both QB's have a good amount of easy throws throughout a game. You shouldn't have to rely on a QB constantly threading the needle and him making magic out of broken plays. That's not a formula for winning a title. Hopefully Schotty has just enough tricks in his sleeve for the playoffs.

    Bingo. Our offensive schemes are generally checkers while the KC and GB offensive schemes are generally chess. They both have great offenses built around the strengths of their quarterbacks. We do not. The best we do is show glimpses of running an offense designed for Wilson.

    Spot on
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  • John63 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Whatever you say, Largent.
    Arguing with you guys is like clapping with one hand.
    Have a great week, go Hawks



    You need to understand there are a small but vocal groups who want so badly for Wilson to fail, to blame him for everything. Even back when he was playing lights out they were trying to find things to blame him for. He could go 30-31 and 600 yards and 6 tds and all they would talk about is the 1 he missed, or how the completed a 5 yarder but someone was open at 10. Thats what they do. They are just a group of blissful people, and you know what they say about being blissful.

    Okay, John, I think you are being a little extreme here and exaggerating.

    Yes, there are divisions within this board where criticism is to coaches, and players, and Wilson, since he is a player, belongs to that criteria and should/can be critiqued to whoever does the judging of his game, i.e. the posters here.

    Wilson is not invincible. He makes bone headed decisions pretty consistently.

    I think we have all seen Wilson throw into double and triple coverage and picked off at the most in opportune time.

    The man does throw balls where you say, “Wilson, what are you doing????!!!”

    I see him do it at least 4-5 times a game.
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  • 4 or 5 times a game? In to triple coverage? I bet you weren't saying that at all when he was moving them up and down the field on back to back to back touchdown drives.

    I give up...…...
    SoulfishHawk
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:4 or 5 times a game? In to triple coverage? I bet you weren't saying that at all when he was moving them up and down the field on back to back to back touchdown drives.

    I give up...…...

    I’ll be sure to tally it up after this upcoming Rams game. How much he will throw into double/triple coverage.
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  • John63 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Whatever you say, Largent.
    Arguing with you guys is like clapping with one hand.
    Have a great week, go Hawks



    You need to understand there are a small but vocal groups who want so badly for Wilson to fail, to blame him for everything. Even back when he was playing lights out they were trying to find things to blame him for. He could go 30-31 and 600 yards and 6 tds and all they would talk about is the 1 he missed, or how the completed a 5 yarder but someone was open at 10. Thats what they do. They are just a group of blissful people, and you know what they say about being blissful.


    You two ever hear of nuance.

    It can be both you know, like.........a group issue. As in how well or poorly an offense or QB does is comprised of many parts. Coach, O-coordinator, playcalling, scheme, and yes the QB himself.

    Just because I think in Russell's 10th year that he is the primary person to blame when he's not playing well doesn't mean I want him to fail. In fact I love him, and I thank baby Jesus every day that he's our QB.

    See how that works? Nuance. You two should check it out. If you think it's more on Pete? Good for you, I just don't share that opinion.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:4 or 5 times a game? In to triple coverage? I bet you weren't saying that at all when he was moving them up and down the field on back to back to back touchdown drives.

    I give up...…...



    he wasn't nor was there 4 or 5 times every game either.
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  • It's ok. It's better I just don't talk about this subject any more. It's not worth it, and it never accomplishes anything.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:It's ok. It's better I just don't talk about this subject any more. It's not worth it, and it never accomplishes anything.



    I jus5t foed the blissful people and only even reply if someone I have not foed does and I read it.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Here we go again. He carried the team to victory in the 4th quarter, AGAIN. 12th win of the season.
    They scored 20, 20, and 26 against 3 top 10 defenses.
    But yeah, he's "struggling"
    The team in general was VERY flat for most of the first 3 quarters. But they scored 20 points in the 4th quarter. Why does it matter how they WON? Why is it always on Russ as the reason the offense struggles? What about horrific play calling? Can he play better, hell yes. But after 9 years of this, plenty are still whining and moaning about the guy after WINS. They don't win this game, and they are not even close to 12-4 w/out him. Period. We have seen ugly first half play and scoring for YEARS, why surprised when they turn it on in the 2nd half? This is nothing new. It's annoying, but it's how they do things.

    4,212 Yards
    40 Touchdowns

    13 Picks

    Yeah, what a "struggle" he has had this season. His Pass blocking has been horrific at times this year.


    I see a piece of the picture in a lot of these posts, and it's not one thing. Russ had a stellar start. We lost Pocic and all of our running backs and the passing game struggled, can't really put it all on Russ, but he is the one with the ball making decisions. A porous line, weaker running backs and some poor decisions by Russ resulted in a spate of interceptions and losses.

    I don't know about an ass chewing, but I guarantee Pete and Russ and Schottie had a discussion about how to handle that going forward. Pete told Russ to be more careful with the ball, and it shows in the number of sacks and throwaways. While we now have the running backs, our Oline is still banged up, Obeghuie (sp) is new and Iupati is out. So I think "careful football" is what we will see and is our best chance to win.

    Maybe if we get healthy Shel and Iupati back we see some Russ cooking in the playoffs, but not until they show they can protect.
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  • Solid ^
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Russ isn't an all time great? Now THAT is funny.
    You're not supposed to drink the bong water.



    Really? your not supposed to drink bong water? LMAO!!!
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  • The more you know...…...
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    This is where you lost me. Not sure why it's hard to figure out. Though you stated he was elite...you went on to say he will never be them, while at the same time he is shattering their person stats and beating ahead of those state at this time in his career aside bradys 6 superbowls. More wins, more tds, less interceptions-minus competing with rodgers low interception clip. But hey you do you boo boo.

    Like I said you and legend of whom can have you seahawks suck pity party and the hawks will do fine even when you are b!@ch about nothingness.


    I didn't say never, I said "probably," and this year proved it out. When Carson went down and the defense was still playing terrible, Russell had 10 turnovers in five games, and we lost four of those games........and most importantly the offense (under Pete) was still trying to play the same way it played in the first five games.

    So sorry, no I do not think he's at the level of those players, and probably never will be. But he's close. If they're 1a, he's 1b.

    Does Pete have something to do with that? Some, but I'm not ready to absolve Russell from taking the brunt of the blame, especially with some of his bad decisions for games, and even stretches of seasons.

    It's why he hasn't received an MVP vote, he's not at the level of Mahomes and Rodgers, or other QB's that carried their teams for entire seasons to #1 seeds and SB's.

    So yeah, blame Pete, but if we're handing out blame, Russell's 80% and Pete and his offense is 20% for me.


    I think this issue was multifaceted... it was a bit of a bunch of things but I'm unsure why it's an issue at this point I mean yeah they made the adjustments they needed to make and it's not even relevant at this point. is it?


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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:4 or 5 times a game? In to triple coverage? I bet you weren't saying that at all when he was moving them up and down the field on back to back to back touchdown drives.

    I give up...…...


    I was going to talk on this too...no way in hell does he throw 4 or 5 passes a game that I'm like what the hell was that. Not even one a game. Instead I see what he was trying to do and what actually happened. Dbl and triple coverage...really? How? When most of you clamor about him holding onto it for so long he takes a sack. I suppose you see some plays I dont see...by the way I watch every play...where he makes throws to the middle of the field where there only defenders like the back up on the cards did against the rams.

    I will even venture to say that all of his interceptions were a result of great corner play instead of a russ throwing error.

    You are talking about one of the must accurate passers of all time and you have to be $h!t me he makes 4 to 5 bad passes a game. Specially since he goes far out of his way to throw away from defenders. Which is what you see in his overthrows.

    *that's not aimed at soul, but largent and legend of whom*
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  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:4 or 5 times a game? In to triple coverage? I bet you weren't saying that at all when he was moving them up and down the field on back to back to back touchdown drives.

    I give up...…...


    I was going to talk on this too...no way in hell does he throw 4 or 5 passes a game that I'm like what the hell was that. Not even one a game. Instead I see what he was trying to and what actually happened. Dbl and triple coverage...really? How? When most of you clamor about him holding onto it for so long he takes a sack. I suppose you see some plays I dont see...by the way I watch every play...where he makes throws to the middle of the field where there only defenders like the back up on the cards did against the rams.

    I will even venture to say that all of his interceptions were a result of great corner play instead of a russ throwing error.

    You are talking about one of the must accurate passers of all time and you have to be $h!t me he makes 4 to 5 bad passes a game. Specially since he goes far out of his way to throw away from defenders. Which is what you see in his overthrows.


    Interception to Buddah Baker. is all on Russ. Sent out a floater to a wide open receiver, but he never saw Buddah. I mostly agee with you, but there was a stretch from game 5 to 9 or 10, when Russell had more head scratching plays than I've seen from him.
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  • LTH wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    This is where you lost me. Not sure why it's hard to figure out. Though you stated he was elite...you went on to say he will never be them, while at the same time he is shattering their person stats and beating ahead of those state at this time in his career aside bradys 6 superbowls. More wins, more tds, less interceptions-minus competing with rodgers low interception clip. But hey you do you boo boo.

    Like I said you and legend of whom can have you seahawks suck pity party and the hawks will do fine even when you are b!@ch about nothingness.


    I didn't say never, I said "probably," and this year proved it out. When Carson went down and the defense was still playing terrible, Russell had 10 turnovers in five games, and we lost four of those games........and most importantly the offense (under Pete) was still trying to play the same way it played in the first five games.

    So sorry, no I do not think he's at the level of those players, and probably never will be. But he's close. If they're 1a, he's 1b.

    Does Pete have something to do with that? Some, but I'm not ready to absolve Russell from taking the brunt of the blame, especially with some of his bad decisions for games, and even stretches of seasons.

    It's why he hasn't received an MVP vote, he's not at the level of Mahomes and Rodgers, or other QB's that carried their teams for entire seasons to #1 seeds and SB's.

    So yeah, blame Pete, but if we're handing out blame, Russell's 80% and Pete and his offense is 20% for me.


    I think this issue was multifaceted... it was a bit of a bunch of things but I'm unsure why it's an issue at this point I mean yeah they made the adjustments they needed to make and it's not even relevant at this point. is it?


    LTH


    I didn't start the thread, but I do think the offensive not looking as sharp as IMO they need to in order to win in the playoffs is indeed an issue.

    Especially true if we lose Reed and possibly Adams playing with one arm. Maybe we can squeak by LA, but if the offense doesn't start cranking it up, then I highly doubt we're rolling into NO or GB and winning.

    Is Pete "firmly behind Russell's struggles?" No.........Russell has full command of the offense AND is every bit a part of the gameplanning and playcalling. So anyone who thinks that is fooling themselves.
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  • Huge game Saturday.
    Let's get this W
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    LTH wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    This is where you lost me. Not sure why it's hard to figure out. Though you stated he was elite...you went on to say he will never be them, while at the same time he is shattering their person stats and beating ahead of those state at this time in his career aside bradys 6 superbowls. More wins, more tds, less interceptions-minus competing with rodgers low interception clip. But hey you do you boo boo.

    Like I said you and legend of whom can have you seahawks suck pity party and the hawks will do fine even when you are b!@ch about nothingness.


    I didn't say never, I said "probably," and this year proved it out. When Carson went down and the defense was still playing terrible, Russell had 10 turnovers in five games, and we lost four of those games........and most importantly the offense (under Pete) was still trying to play the same way it played in the first five games.

    So sorry, no I do not think he's at the level of those players, and probably never will be. But he's close. If they're 1a, he's 1b.

    Does Pete have something to do with that? Some, but I'm not ready to absolve Russell from taking the brunt of the blame, especially with some of his bad decisions for games, and even stretches of seasons.

    It's why he hasn't received an MVP vote, he's not at the level of Mahomes and Rodgers, or other QB's that carried their teams for entire seasons to #1 seeds and SB's.

    So yeah, blame Pete, but if we're handing out blame, Russell's 80% and Pete and his offense is 20% for me.


    I think this issue was multifaceted... it was a bit of a bunch of things but I'm unsure why it's an issue at this point I mean yeah they made the adjustments they needed to make and it's not even relevant at this point. is it?


    LTH


    I didn't start the thread, but I do think the offensive not looking as sharp as IMO they need to in order to win in the playoffs is indeed an issue.

    Especially true if we lose Reed and possibly Adams playing with one arm. Maybe we can squeak by LA, but if the offense doesn't start cranking it up, then I highly doubt we're rolling into NO or GB and winning.

    Is Pete "firmly behind Russell's struggles?" No.........Russell has full command of the offense AND is every bit a part of the gameplanning and playcalling. So anyone who thinks that is fooling themselves.



    I just think its more complicated than it being all on Russ... I think they just need to get back to running the ball that to me is the issue... If they can run the ball effectively and pick their shots down field they will be ok... as far as the D I'm not worried about it...


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  • LTH wrote:

    I just think its more complicated than it being all on Russ... I think they just need to get back to running the ball that to me is the issue... If they can run the ball effectively and pick their shots down field they will be ok... as far as the D I'm not worried about it...LTH


    I didn't say all, I said I'd put it about 80%.

    If you or others think it's less, great. But it's not 100% Pete that's for sure. This offense is a three headed monster, Pete, Russ and Schotty. All three are in every single gameplan meeting all week installing the week's offense.
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  • "Pete ball" = a formula for winning close games. I don't believe RW is struggling at all. Just playing vanilla O.

    Russell's struggles, if he's truly struggling, may just be the team dialling down the film they are putting out there and sandbagging a bit to be ready for the playoffs. Don't show anything more than vanilla conceptually.

    When the team needs RW to dial it up amazingly he can do just that it which causes me to think it could be intentional.

    It'd be nice to also have a RT that can be depended upon to pass block. This something RW hasn't truly had for the last 5 games.
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  • StoneCold wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:4 or 5 times a game? In to triple coverage? I bet you weren't saying that at all when he was moving them up and down the field on back to back to back touchdown drives.

    I give up...…...


    I was going to talk on this too...no way in hell does he throw 4 or 5 passes a game that I'm like what the hell was that. Not even one a game. Instead I see what he was trying to and what actually happened. Dbl and triple coverage...really? How? When most of you clamor about him holding onto it for so long he takes a sack. I suppose you see some plays I dont see...by the way I watch every play...where he makes throws to the middle of the field where there only defenders like the back up on the cards did against the rams.

    I will even venture to say that all of his interceptions were a result of great corner play instead of a russ throwing error.

    You are talking about one of the must accurate passers of all time and you have to be $h!t me he makes 4 to 5 bad passes a game. Specially since he goes far out of his way to throw away from defenders. Which is what you see in his overthrows.


    Interception to Buddah Baker. is all on Russ. Sent out a floater to a wide open receiver, but he never saw Buddah. I mostly agee with you, but there was a stretch from game 5 to 9 or 10, when Russell had more head scratching plays than I've seen from him.


    Ehh not even that one cuz you can see what he was throwing to...avoiding the original defender and not seeing budda. Baker is a hell of a safety though and I agree with you. He had a stretch of some weird passes trying to force the situation. By no means is he lesser of a qb than anyone else in this league because we have see that from many players. Like brady in the SB against us. Didnt see lane sitting underneath and threw it right at him. Interception and that play lane got injured and went out the rest of the game because the low tackle.
    Last edited by jamescasey1124 on Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • jammerhawk wrote:"Pete ball" = a formula for winning close games. I don't believe RW is struggling at all. Just playing vanilla O.

    Russell's struggles, if he's truly struggling, may just be the team dialling down the film they are putting out there and sandbagging a bit to be ready for the playoffs. Don't show anything more than vanilla conceptually.

    When the team needs RW to dial it up amazingly he can do just that it which causes me to think it could be intentional.

    It'd be nice to also have a RT that can be depended upon to pass block. This something RW hasn't truly had for the last 5 games.


    I thought the same thing in the back of my mind...but I was afraid to say it because if you think about it it's a VERY arrogant thing to do... I want to believe it... but... it just seems out there...If they are that good then it shouldnt matter whats on tape...


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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    LTH wrote:

    I just think its more complicated than it being all on Russ... I think they just need to get back to running the ball that to me is the issue... If they can run the ball effectively and pick their shots down field they will be ok... as far as the D I'm not worried about it...LTH


    I didn't say all, I said I'd put it about 80%.

    If you or others think it's less, great. But it's not 100% Pete that's for sure. This offense is a three headed monster, Pete, Russ and Schotty. All three are in every single gameplan meeting all week installing the week's offense.


    It's not a 3 headed monster. If you count russ you need to count the other ten. Plus playing is separate from coaching from Playcalling.
    jamescasey1124
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  • Just double checking, you guys do realize this is a 12-4 team playing a HUGE playoff game on Saturday right?
    Let's Rock :irishdrinkers:
    SoulfishHawk
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  • jammerhawk wrote:"Pete ball" = a formula for winning close games. I don't believe RW is struggling at all. Just playing vanilla O.

    Russell's struggles, if he's truly struggling, may just be the team dialling down the film they are putting out there and sandbagging a bit to be ready for the playoffs. Don't show anything more than vanilla conceptually.

    When the team needs RW to dial it up amazingly he can do just that it which causes me to think it could be intentional.

    It'd be nice to also have a RT that can be depended upon to pass block. This something RW hasn't truly had for the last 5 games.


    Funny...I made a thread about this being a possibility that Pete is under scheming to not tip our hand to teams in order to destroy teams in the playoffs. Are you in my head? Haha.
    jamescasey1124
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  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    LTH wrote:

    I just think its more complicated than it being all on Russ... I think they just need to get back to running the ball that to me is the issue... If they can run the ball effectively and pick their shots down field they will be ok... as far as the D I'm not worried about it...LTH


    I didn't say all, I said I'd put it about 80%.

    If you or others think it's less, great. But it's not 100% Pete that's for sure. This offense is a three headed monster, Pete, Russ and Schotty. All three are in every single gameplan meeting all week installing the week's offense.


    It's not a 3 headed monster. If you count russ you need to count the other ten. Plus playing is separate from coaching from Playcalling.


    If you think this, then you don't understand how NFL football works.

    During the week game film is reviewed, issues are brought up to make notes to correct during team and position grouping meetings. Then the coach and coordinators meet to install next week's gameplan.

    Of which now Russell is 100% a part of, not the other 10 offensive players. This is normal for any franchise QB of Russell's stature of competency. He is involved in the week to week scheming, gameplanning and playcalling. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a part of his contract negotiations during the last extension.

    He wanted to get paid and he wanted a bigger role within the offense and how it's run, and he got it.
    Sgt. Largent
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