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why the Hawks so successful in the 4th quarter

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  • This is not a new thing... the one game that jumps out at me was the NFC championship game against GB i think it was the year they lost the SB... the Hawks sucked the whole game until the end then all of a sudden they came to life and won the game in the 4th..
    \
    This is actually a Bill Walsh thing Carroll stole from him... Carroll recently talked about this after the win against the Rams.. also Russ and Montana talked about this on Russ's podcast..


    They have a large list of plays that they run in which the team is good at and can run in there sleep...

    This was very evident in the win against the Niners... Russ is a lot like Montana in that his management of the game is so efficient in a come back effort.

    It's amazing the affect bill walsh has in the NFL Now Schotty is on board with it..

    Teams make a huge mistake when they play the Hawks soft... as per the Niner game russ just ate them up and then when they tried to go back to the scheme that worked the Hawks were on that list and had the momentum... to late game over...

    thie other part I forgot to mention is that it's the 2 min O and its all based around that list but the thing that makes it work so well is because it's tempo based... get the D on its heels and run those plays the O knows so well... that why in the past you hear Holmgren alway preaching tempo... The Rams do it as well very well...

    Thoughts?

    LTH
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  • Assuming you are correct; I would say the plays you can run in your sleep should be sprinkled throughout your normal offense.
    cymatica
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  • Cause that's the only time you can win the game, or so I'm told.
    12AngryHawks
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  • cymatica wrote:Assuming you are correct; I would say the plays you can run in your sleep should be sprinkled throughout your normal offense.


    They are...

    LTH
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  • LTH wrote:This is not a new thing... the one game that jumps out at me was the NFC championship game against GB i think it was the year they lost the SB... the Hawks sucked the whole game until the end then all of a sudden they came to life and won the game in the 4th..
    \
    This is actually a Bill Walsh thing Carroll stole from him... Carroll recently talked about this after the win against the Rams.. also Russ and Montana talked about this on Russ's podcast..


    They have a large list of plays that they run in which the team is good at and can run in there sleep...

    This was very evident in the win against the Niners... Russ is a lot like Montana in that his management of the game is so efficient in a come back effort.

    It's amazing the affect bill walsh has in the NFL Now Schotty is on board with it..

    Teams make a huge mistake when they play the Hawks soft... as per the Niner game russ just ate them up and then when they tried to go back to the scheme that worked the Hawks were on that list and had the momentum... to late game over...

    thie other part I forgot to mention is that it's the 2 min O and its all based around that list but the thing that makes it work so well is because it's tempo based... get the D on its heels and run those plays the O knows so well... that why in the past you hear Holmgren alway preaching tempo... The Rams do it as well very well...

    Thoughts?

    LTH


    I could agree, but that game was far different. It wasnt that they couldnt move the ball and had a ton of three and outs on offense. There were many turnovers. Atleast four interceptions. 2 off of kearses hands to defenders. That's why it was so big that kearse caught the game winning td. But the offense was moving the ball. Just got caught in many turnovers and rodgers was playing a decent enough game against the LOB.
    jamescasey1124
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  • I feel like the 4th quarter thing has only be around a few years. It seemed to be more prevalent in games once we were missing at least two of the four original lob. I mean once we lost our defense. I would say somewhere in the 2016-2017 to 2018 years. Its definitely been going on some time, but I remember low scoring games which both teams were going at it and being ultra competitive the entire game. Not just the 4th quarter. For sure the last two seasons..I am certain about that.
    jamescasey1124
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  • jamescasey1124 wrote:I feel like the 4th quarter thing has only be around a few years. It seemed to be more prevalent in games once we were missing at least two of the four original lob. I mean once we lost our defense. I would say somewhere in the 2016-2017 to 2018 years. Its definitely been going on some time, but I remember low scoring games which both teams were going at it and being ultra competitive the entire game. Not just the 4th quarter. For sure the last two seasons..I am certain about that.


    actually its been around Wilsons whole career

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... r=WilsRu00

    edit: for my sucky spelling


    LTH
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  • LTH wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:I feel like the 4th quarter thing has only be around a few years. It seemed to be more prevalent in games once we were missing at least two of the four original lob. I mean once we lost our defense. I would say somewhere in the 2016-2017 to 2018 years. Its definitely been going on some time, but I remember low scoring games which both teams were going at it and being ultra competitive the entire game. Not just the 4th quarter. For sure the last two seasons..I am certain about that.


    actually its been around Wilsons whole career

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... r=WilsRu00

    edit: for my sucky spelling


    LTH


    Maybe game to game here an there, but not consecutively every game in a row. Couldn't be.

    I remember the game against the Patriots in 2012. Where russ lit em up before the half. That's when everybody legitimately said russ was good to go. It was like the fifth game of his rookie season.
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  • The 4th quarter thing had been around forever, and more pronounced in the past because we had to go even more conservative in games behind a Cable line. Also, the detriment of going conservative was less with the LOB.
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  • LTH wrote:actually its been around Wilsons whole career

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... r=WilsRu00

    I might not be following your argument here, but 24 wins where we started the 4th quarter trailing doesn't seem particularly remarkable to me, if we also consider that Russ has been a top 5 QB in that same timeframe with 98 wins overall. 25% seems like a normal amount to me. Would you expect less than that, and if so, why?

    The Hawks have typically been good in the 4th quarter because they have been good overall.
    AgentDib
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  • LTH wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:I feel like the 4th quarter thing has only be around a few years. It seemed to be more prevalent in games once we were missing at least two of the four original lob. I mean once we lost our defense. I would say somewhere in the 2016-2017 to 2018 years. Its definitely been going on some time, but I remember low scoring games which both teams were going at it and being ultra competitive the entire game. Not just the 4th quarter. For sure the last two seasons..I am certain about that.


    actually its been around Wilsons whole career

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... r=WilsRu00

    edit: for my sucky spelling


    LTH


    Also this does nothing to prove we waited to the third or 4th quarter to win. Many of those games had inter changing leads, we lead the whole time until late and games we actually came from behind exclusively in the 4th quarter. Those just show game winning drives. Which yes...wilson is a leader in that category.
    jamescasey1124
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  • I could think of one big reason they are successful in the 4th. But, I'm done going down that road......
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  • Here are the numbers by quarter for 2020. Looks pretty middle of the road with the exception of us being 1st in the NFL in 3rd quarter scoring. Always defeering probably skews the numbers a bit eventhough i think that's what most teams do.

    1st quarter scoring- 5.4 (14th in NFL)
    2nd quarter scoring- 8.0 (15th in NFL)
    3rd quarter scoring- 7.4 (1st in NFL)
    4th quarter scoring- 7.9 (11th in NFL)
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  • 12AngryHawks wrote:Cause that's the only time you can win the game, or so I'm told.



    While not exactly in-depth analysis, this may be the definitive answer. :2thumbs:
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  • LTH wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:I feel like the 4th quarter thing has only be around a few years. It seemed to be more prevalent in games once we were missing at least two of the four original lob. I mean once we lost our defense. I would say somewhere in the 2016-2017 to 2018 years. Its definitely been going on some time, but I remember low scoring games which both teams were going at it and being ultra competitive the entire game. Not just the 4th quarter. For sure the last two seasons..I am certain about that.


    actually its been around Wilsons whole career

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... r=WilsRu00

    edit: for my sucky spelling


    LTH


    Yep
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  • If it weren’t for the successful onside kick in the GB game there would have been no comeback.
    Just sayin......

    But what a comeback huh??????!!!!!!!!........lol
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  • Down 16 with less than 5 minutes left in that NFC Championship.
    And who was on the sidelines telling EVERYONE they were going to win? The most underappreciated player on this team, by many. VERY few in history could have pulled off that comeback.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Down 16 with less than 5 minutes left in that NFC Championship.
    And who was on the sidelines telling EVERYONE they were going to win? The most underappreciated player on this team, by many. VERY few in history could have pulled off that comeback.



    I would NEVER bet against Russ... anybody that does is a fool...The only thing he knows is how to win...if its not obvious at this point I don't even know what to say other than I'll take your money!


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  • LTH wrote:
    Teams make a huge mistake when they play the Hawks soft... as per the Niner game russ just ate them up and then when they tried to go back to the scheme that worked the Hawks were on that list and had the momentum... to late game over...


    LTH


    I agree with you here. This is what has allowed the Hawks to make so many comebacks because teams go into prevent D and you see RW thriving against teams that make conventional/safe gameplans. That being said there are some teams (especially ones with good defenses) that don't take their foot of the pedal and when RW now needs to go in god mode against a team continuing to blitz him when he needs time for big plays to develop. He's then is gettingng sacked, stripped or throwing an Interception to seal the fate of the game. The Rams are one of those teams that are NOT going to go in soft mode if they take the lead going into the 4th. I am very intrigued to see this Seahawks 2021 playoff team and how they move forward. If it's the same stuff we have seen the past few years which was very run dominate keep the game close and try to do heroics in the end. It could end up very poorly (especially against GB if they make it that far).
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  • ZagHawk wrote:
    LTH wrote:
    Teams make a huge mistake when they play the Hawks soft... as per the Niner game russ just ate them up and then when they tried to go back to the scheme that worked the Hawks were on that list and had the momentum... to late game over...


    LTH


    I agree with you here. This is what has allowed the Hawks to make so many comebacks because teams go into prevent D and you see RW thriving against teams that make conventional/safe gameplans. That being said there are some teams (especially ones with good defenses) that don't take their foot of the pedal and when RW now needs to go in god mode against a team continuing to blitz him when he needs time for big plays to develop. He's then is gettingng sacked, stripped or throwing an Interception to seal the fate of the game. The Rams are one of those teams that are NOT going to go in soft mode if they take the lead going into the 4th. I am very intrigued to see this Seahawks 2021 playoff team and how they move forward. If it's the same stuff we have seen the past few years which was very run dominate keep the game close and try to do heroics in the end. It could end up very poorly (especially against GB if they make it that far).


    You might agree with me but you completely missed the point of the post...


    LTH
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  • ZagHawk wrote:
    LTH wrote:
    Teams make a huge mistake when they play the Hawks soft... as per the Niner game russ just ate them up and then when they tried to go back to the scheme that worked the Hawks were on that list and had the momentum... to late game over...


    LTH


    I agree with you here. This is what has allowed the Hawks to make so many comebacks because teams go into prevent D and you see RW thriving against teams that make conventional/safe gameplans. That being said there are some teams (especially ones with good defenses) that don't take their foot of the pedal and when RW now needs to go in god mode against a team continuing to blitz him when he needs time for big plays to develop. He's then is gettingng sacked, stripped or throwing an Interception to seal the fate of the game. The Rams are one of those teams that are NOT going to go in soft mode if they take the lead going into the 4th. I am very intrigued to see this Seahawks 2021 playoff team and how they move forward. If it's the same stuff we have seen the past few years which was very run dominate keep the game close and try to do heroics in the end. It could end up very poorly (especially against GB if they make it that far).



    Not all true, sometimes you are correct, however other times they do not take the foot off and Wilson still leads us to wins.

    Now as to the PC philosophy of trying to keep it close and win in the end, I agree that is not what we should be doing. However, PC will not change, As long as it is close PC will keep the handcuffs on.
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  • It hasn’t been as bad recently but for awhile RW was snapping ever play as the play clock expired. I get eating up the clock when you’re way ahead. If we are that explosive a why are we not running no huddle hurry up offense
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  • LTH wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Down 16 with less than 5 minutes left in that NFC Championship.
    And who was on the sidelines telling EVERYONE they were going to win? The most underappreciated player on this team, by many. VERY few in history could have pulled off that comeback.



    I would NEVER bet against Russ... anybody that does is a fool...The only thing he knows is how to win...if its not obvious at this point I don't even know what to say other than I'll take your money!


    LTH


    That is exactly what a lot of other fanbases say...It is Russ again....dammit.
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  • sprhawk73 wrote:It hasn’t been as bad recently but for awhile RW was snapping ever play as the play clock expired. I get eating up the clock when you’re way ahead. If we are that explosive a why are we not running no huddle hurry up offense



    You are correct games 1-5 they hardly did that snapping of the ball as clock expired. however, starting game 6 they went back to it alot. This goes to PC desire to control the clock, but puts us at a huge disadvantage as the defense can tee off.
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  • If I had a dollar for every time I screamed at the TV: "SNAP THE DAMN BALL"
    God that crap is annoying :mrgreen:
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:If I had a dollar for every time I screamed at the TV: "SNAP THE DAMN BALL"
    God that crap is annoying :mrgreen:



    I agree and if I had a dollar for every time I had to watch Wilson looking at the sidelines waiting for the play only to get it with barely enough time to get to the line and snap it I would be rich.
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  • LTH wrote:
    thie other part I forgot to mention is that it's the 2 min O and its all based around that list but the thing that makes it work so well is because it's tempo based... get the D on its heels and run those plays the O knows so well... that why in the past you hear Holmgren alway preaching tempo... The Rams do it as well very well...


    You'd think having one of the best rhythm/tempo QB's of all time, we'd go up tempo more often and not just wait until the 4 or 2 minute drill to let Russell go up tempo.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    LTH wrote:
    thie other part I forgot to mention is that it's the 2 min O and its all based around that list but the thing that makes it work so well is because it's tempo based... get the D on its heels and run those plays the O knows so well... that why in the past you hear Holmgren alway preaching tempo... The Rams do it as well very well...


    You'd think having one of the best rhythm/tempo QB's of all time, we'd go up tempo more often and not just wait until the 4 or 2 minute drill to let Russell go up tempo.


    Yeah that might be one of those things Jammerhawk was talking about the Hawks holding back on...I notice they go up tempo at the end of a half and in the 4th... It surely wouldn't surprise me to see more of that this saturday because it is the way Russ takes control of the game... seems like the Rams spy him a lot too...


    LTH
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