Both coordinators MUST be fired this offseason

On year 3 of this staff and it’s time. An ass kicking at home against a broken thumb, broken confidence QB with an excellent play caller. Brian schottenheimer quite literally didn’t know what to do today and was two steps behind every single play. There was zero creativity, zero tempo, zero identity. Just looking for the deep ball each and every pass. The offense regressed for 2 months with zero adjustments and came in today completely unable to move the ball. I watch Sunday ticket every week and every other offense can at least sustain drives. This team is 1-11? On 3rd today. This isn’t new. This was the offense for 3 quarters of every single game. This is the offense in every playoff game for years. A run on 3rd and 5 down 17 stuffed followed by a blown coverage run by Russ on 4th to keep the drive going is an exclamation point on this garbage offensive coaching staff.


Ken Norton got the D better but played against some horrible QB’s. Today was more of what we expect. At least they didn’t break records for worst D ever.

It’s pathetic at this point watching below average coaches get outcoached each and every week. I don’t remember the last time a game ended and you could confidently say “wow great game called by schotty”. It’s time for Pete’s offensive identify to go, an actual creative deserving OC given reigns to the offense.

That would not solve anything. The problem is Pete.

Pete has to go also. Burn it down and rebuild. You can't keep him or nothing changes.

So tired of the assistants being scapegoated. How many of them have been the problem before we realize they aren't the entire problem?

Unfortunately, Pete will just hire some more "Yes men."

I've proposed the only realistic solution a few times on here during the season that still won't happen, but please folks, humor me, and allow me to post it again.


1) Pete loses personnel power. Give full roster control, and final say to Schneider.

2*) Pete aggressively pursues a truly big time offensive coach he truly admires, and gives him the keys to the offense. Pete butts out.

*The reason Pete won't do this is because the Seahawks would be scared of losing said Offensive Coach, and fire Pete to keep the Offensive Coach. Pete knows what he's doing here. Schotty will be as good as it gets while Pete is still the head coach.

3) Pete focuses on the defense, his specialty. As well as focusing on being just the Head Coach, which is still a really big job. He needs to delegate more, and take some of the load off his plate. Which means looking to upgrade Coordinators, and pursue better ways of doing things. Not staying the same and expecting a different result.

Dude is 70, it would be best for everyone involved, but I understand it's hard to take the keys away from grandpa. When you win just enough to keep the dumb, ignorant, and blind, happy enough.

Did firing Bevell and putting in Schotty change our offense much? No. Pete forcing conservative and simple "Pete ball" on offense is the problem. Firing Schotty won't accomplish ****-all.

RolandDeschain":2v0z8yo0 said:

Did firing Bevell and putting in Schotty change our offense much? No. Pete forcing conservative and simple "Pete ball" on offense is the problem. Firing Schotty won't accomplish ****-all.

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After the Dallas playoff game, I asked if the team was going to build around Pete Ball why pay Wilson. If the team was going to give Pete an extension they should have moved on from Wilson. The funny thing is, if they did blow this team up and started over with rookies I think Pete would produce similar results.

I don't think Pete's leadership style is a "micro-manager" Sure, he will emphasize ball control, and chunk plays, but he's not drawing up the plays and forcing Shotty to call these plays, or which downs to call them on.

So when it comes to the offensive game plan, it's really on Shotty to come up with a good game plan, and call the right plays at the right time.

They had a good plan against WFT, and a terrible one against the Rams.

hoxrox":2vcjr0wi said:

I don't think Pete's leadership style is a "micro-manager" Sure, he will emphasize ball control, and chunk plays, but he's not drawing up the plays and forcing Shotty to call these plays, or which downs to call them on.

So when it comes to the offensive game plan, it's really on Shotty to come up with a good game plan, and call the right plays at the right time.

They had a good plan against WFT, and a terrible one against the Rams.

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If Pete was making the game plan they would be running the ball way more...


LTH

LTH":3t8mx64d said:

hoxrox":3t8mx64d said:

I don't think Pete's leadership style is a "micro-manager" Sure, he will emphasize ball control, and chunk plays, but he's not drawing up the plays and forcing Shotty to call these plays, or which downs to call them on.

So when it comes to the offensive game plan, it's really on Shotty to come up with a good game plan, and call the right plays at the right time.

They had a good plan against WFT, and a terrible one against the Rams.

Click to expand...

If Pete was making the game plan they would be running the ball way more...


LTH

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Yeah and he would have been right. You kind of need a good running game against teams with good pass rush. The deep, feast or famine stuff won't work too often.

The key difference in this game was turnovers, and:

Player CAR YDS TD AVG
Cam Akers 28 131 1 4.7
Chris Carson 16 77 0 4.8

hoxrox":23zt5ldx said:

I don't think Pete's leadership style is a "micro-manager" Sure, he will emphasize ball control, and chunk plays, but he's not drawing up the plays and forcing Shotty to call these plays, or which downs to call them on.

So when it comes to the offensive game plan, it's really on Shotty to come up with a good game plan, and call the right plays at the right time.

They had a good plan against WFT, and a terrible one against the Rams.

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Pete doesn't actually call the offense but Pete has an offensive philosophy that he obviously imposes on his OCs. We've had 3 OCs now and we've had similar issues with every one of them. Either they all have the exact same flaws or Pete wants things a certain way.

One of those is far more likely than the other.

Also, I don't think Norton needs to go and I do not think our D had a bad game AT ALL. The fact of the matter is, when a D is essentially on the field for two thirds of the game because their offense doesn't even get within spitting distance of a first down (and when they do, they decide to kick on fourth and one anyway), the D is going to get tired and eventually, some break downs are going to happen.

Demanding a D essentially keep the other team scoreless because your offense is to inept to even hold the ball for 6 or 7 plays at a time is demanding too much.

DarkVictory23":29a56lo9 said:

Pete doesn't actually call the offense but Pete has an offensive philosophy that he obviously imposes on his OCs.

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I understand this concept - just having a hard time seeing how this translates on game day.

PC: "Hey Shotty, I know we let Russ Cook earlier, but now Russ is throwing too many picks, and it's costing us games. We need to tone down X, Y, Z plays a bit. Here's the plays I want you to call instead..."

Shotty: "You got it, boss! We will be more conservative from now on!"

Could a more realistic scenario be that both Shotty and Russ have been terrible on game day?

Fixing the coordinators does not solve the problem.

Pete needs to lose control of his coordinators. Both in hiring and in firing, if not even having reporting authority over them in game. In game, he should have no authority. Because his decisioning is suspect, if not lazy.

Until you strip all control from Pete, he will continue to do damage to the team that will impact playoff chances.

He will make an 8 win team look like a 12 win team in the regular season, and it almost won't matter who the coordinators are. But since his strategies and tactics are easily overcome in the playoffs and for the most part work because you are playing the %s against weaker teams - he will not just lose, but lose in an embarrassing fashion.

Since the SB loss, his teams are a laughingstock in the playoffs. That is not the coordinators.

We need new coordinators with the authority to stand up to Pete if not disregard him entirely.

Is this possible? Maybe, but it would likely never have been done before in the NFL in a level that was supported by management. Usually, it is an indicator of disfunction and not part of your internal plan.

So it would be novel, but very difficult to execute.

Unless we can find a way to make Pete the HC but rotate out on gameday, we are still going to face the same issues no matter how many coordinators we replace or fire.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/bcondotta/status/1348421962549272577[/tweet]

hoxrox":25p13ife said:

DarkVictory23":25p13ife said:

Pete doesn't actually call the offense but Pete has an offensive philosophy that he obviously imposes on his OCs.

Click to expand...

I understand this concept - just having a hard time seeing how this translates on game day.

PC: "Hey Shotty, I know we let Russ Cook earlier, but now Russ is throwing too many picks, and it's costing us games. We need to tone down X, Y, Z plays a bit. Here's the plays I want you to call instead..."

Shotty: "You got it, boss! We will be more conservative from now on!"

Could a more realistic scenario be that both Shotty and Russ have been terrible on game day?

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Of course there are days where Russ and Schotty just straight stink, but the fact is, we've had similar issues across three different OCs and a similar number of QBs. The constant has been Carroll.

And your quoted conversation is 100% a believable convo for Pete and Schottenheimer to have.

Fade":i2a28s7c said:

Unfortunately, Pete will just hire some more "Yes men."

I've proposed the only realistic solution a few times on here during the season that still won't happen, but please folks, humor me, and allow me to post it again.


1) Pete loses personnel power. Give full roster control, and final say to Schneider.

2*) Pete aggressively pursues a truly big time offensive coach he truly admires, and gives him the keys to the offense. Pete butts out.

*The reason Pete won't do this is because the Seahawks would be scared of losing said Offensive Coach, and fire Pete to keep the Offensive Coach. Pete knows what he's doing here. Schotty will be as good as it gets while Pete is still the head coach.

3) Pete focuses on the defense, his specialty. As well as focusing on being just the Head Coach, which is still a really big job. He needs to delegate more, and take some of the load off his plate. Which means looking to upgrade Coordinators, and pursue better ways of doing things. Not staying the same and expecting a different result.

Dude is 70, it would be best for everyone involved, but I understand it's hard to take the keys away from grandpa. When you win just enough to keep the dumb, ignorant, and blind, happy enough.

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He’s stubborn.

Old.

Will never change.

Unfortunately, I think Jody Allen is content with the Seahawks as is.

I mean, that’s just my thought, why else would she extend him?

It sucks. I think the Seahawks are stuck with Carroll for the foreseeable future.

vigilantgrrl":pn83txvr said:

That would not solve anything. The problem is Pete.

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The problem is a shitty qb who, since week 6, wants to soley throw 40 yarders and can't hit a 5-10 yarder if his life depended on it.

Pete is a Defensive guy, I can only go back to USC where Norm Chow left because Pete wanted his fingerprints all over the offense, I remember the game against the UW where they benched Barkley also because he strayed out of the game plan as well and scored and pushed scoring the previous week.

Pete needs to step back from all things offensive other then what kind of offense he wants to run, not shutting it down, not dictating play calls tp the OC.

On defense they were ok, all the injuries and new players coming on took time to gel, Norton was ok once he had his pieces in place.

Pete is a issue, but Wilson is a HORRIBLE pocket passer. He hangs onto the ball WAY to long. All the times Wilson got sacked half of them are on Wilson. Changing OC's isn't gonna do anyhting at all. You could have Mike Martz as OC and you will get the same results. Pete's philosophy is to run the ball and play Defense. As good as Wilson is he isn't the right QB for this offense. What makes Wilson good is his deep balls and that's it. What the Seahawks did on offense weeks 1-8 then 9-16 is absolutely mind blowing, I never in my 20 plus years watching this game seen that type of drop off before...EVER.

hoxrox":2kmh7nao said:

DarkVictory23":2kmh7nao said:

Pete doesn't actually call the offense but Pete has an offensive philosophy that he obviously imposes on his OCs.

Click to expand...

I understand this concept - just having a hard time seeing how this translates on game day.

PC: "Hey Shotty, I know we let Russ Cook earlier, but now Russ is throwing too many picks, and it's costing us games. We need to tone down X, Y, Z plays a bit. Here's the plays I want you to call instead..."

Shotty: "You got it, boss! We will be more conservative from now on!"

Could a more realistic scenario be that both Shotty and Russ have been terrible on game day?

Click to expand...

I think it was more after game 5 " hey Schotty I don't like this offense. Take out these plays and eat the clock more this can help my defense. "

The scbotty said yes boss.