Should the defense switch to a 3 man front?

With the defense flirting with breaking the record for the worst defense in NFL history this year...clearly a change wouldn't hurt.

Would it work with the players we have?
Who would the 3 be?

I think they would have to draft some studs that are built for the scheme.

Hawks2022":1vsmwwd0 said:

With the defense flirting with breaking the worst defense in NFL history this year...clearly a change wouldn't hurt.

Would it work with the players we have?
Who would the 3 be?

I think they would have to draft some studs that are built for the scheme.

Click to expand...

Are you strictly referring to a 3-4 defense?

I believe Carroll’s defense is a 4-3 under/over fronts and that is how he has always played.

I don’t think he would change his stance on that.

TheLegendOfBoom":3uvp4o7y said:

Hawks2022":3uvp4o7y said:

With the defense flirting with breaking the worst defense in NFL history this year...clearly a change wouldn't hurt.

Would it work with the players we have?
Who would the 3 be?

I think they would have to draft some studs that are built for the scheme.

Click to expand...

Are you strictly referring to a 3-4 defense?

I believe Carroll’s defense is a 4-3 under/over fronts and that is how he has always played.

I don’t think he would change his stance on that.

Click to expand...

Yes, 3-4. Honestly I don't remember any hawks D that had a 3 man front line. I get that he might not want change...but until the last few games, this year was ugly!

We have plenty of pro bowl level LBs, why not use them all! Its the D line that needs some bolstering to make this work.

Hawks2022":39853guu said:

With the defense flirting with breaking the record for the worst defense in NFL history this year...clearly a change wouldn't hurt.

Would it work with the players we have?
Who would the 3 be?

I think they would have to draft some studs that are built for the scheme.

Click to expand...

I don't like the idea. The roster isn't built for it. The whole "4-3 with 3-4 personnel" tag has its limits.

As it stands, Poona works as a 1T in a 4-3, but his fit would become questionable in a 3-4 at NT. LJ Collier could probably work as a big end, but other than that, the line is pretty clearly a 4-3 front. Dunlap is a big Leo who wouldn't do as well standing up, Mayowa as well, and there are no proven stand-up rushers at OLB. Maybe Adams, but eh.

Too much turnover and, at the end of the day, probably absolutely zero benefit.

Hawks2022":1chcjv8p said:

TheLegendOfBoom":1chcjv8p said:

Hawks2022":1chcjv8p said:

With the defense flirting with breaking the worst defense in NFL history this year...clearly a change wouldn't hurt.

Would it work with the players we have?
Who would the 3 be?

I think they would have to draft some studs that are built for the scheme.

Click to expand...

Are you strictly referring to a 3-4 defense?

I believe Carroll’s defense is a 4-3 under/over fronts and that is how he has always played.

I don’t think he would change his stance on that.

Click to expand...

Yes, 3-4. Honestly I don't remember any hawks D that had a 3 man front line. I get that he might not want change...but until the last few games, this year was ugly!

Click to expand...

IIRC, Chuck Knox ran a 3-4. That was pre-Cortez, though.

Hawks2022":1ayvchq4 said:

We have plenty of pro bowl level LBs, why not use them all! Its the D line that needs some bolstering to make this work.

Click to expand...

Because they'd have entirely different responsibilities and would be much more pass-rush centric. All 3 starting linebackers would project best as ILB's in a 3-4 (of which there are 2), meaning we'd actually be using said pro bowl linebackers less in all likelihood

Yes, Chuckster did run a 3-4!!

Maelstrom787":161vlp3k said:

Hawks2022":161vlp3k said:

We have plenty of pro bowl level LBs, why not use them all! Its the D line that needs some bolstering to make this work.

Click to expand...

Because they'd have entirely different responsibilities and would be much more pass-rush centric. All 3 starting linebackers would project best as ILB's in a 3-4 (of which there are 2), meaning we'd actually be using said pro bowl linebackers less in all likelihood

Click to expand...

I get your point of a 3-4 would require massive change...but when the defence sucked as bad as it did the first+ half of the year, change is needed.

The current players and scheme clearly didn't work. We can stick to what is proven not to work for the sake of comfort and "thats the D we run"...or mix it up and maybe win a playoff game.

Seahawks switched from a 3-4 to a 4-3 when they drafted Kennedy.

Hawks2022":3m5gvcmt said:

With the defense flirting with breaking the record for the worst defense in NFL history this year...clearly a change wouldn't hurt.

Click to expand...

Except, those very same players were what, top 10? Top 5? the second half of the season once they got to know each other. So maybe your argument isn't as strong as you think.

Hawks2022":n3ow4gtj said:

Maelstrom787":n3ow4gtj said:

Hawks2022":n3ow4gtj said:

We have plenty of pro bowl level LBs, why not use them all! Its the D line that needs some bolstering to make this work.

Click to expand...

Because they'd have entirely different responsibilities and would be much more pass-rush centric. All 3 starting linebackers would project best as ILB's in a 3-4 (of which there are 2), meaning we'd actually be using said pro bowl linebackers less in all likelihood

Click to expand...

I get your point of a 3-4 would require massive change...but when the defence sucked as bad as it did the first+ half of the year, change is needed.

The current players and scheme clearly didn't work. We can stick to what is proven not to work for the sake of comfort and "thats the D we run"...or mix it up and maybe win a playoff game.

Click to expand...

Change for the sake of change isn't a good thing. If a defense is having trouble executing their assignments, do you really think a full-blown scheme change is going to help with their mental errors? Not to mention the fact that the personnel fit isn't even close to ideal.

No. They improved and cleaned it up. It was altogether a disappointing season for the defense, but changes still need to make at least a little bit of sense to be worthwhile.

The old saying is "Change is good!" But, change is neither good nor bad - change in itself has no moral value. Change is just 'differentness', and whether it helps or hurts has nothing to do with the fact that it's change. People really seem to not realize that.

sutz":2w98fuil said:

Hawks2022":2w98fuil said:

TheLegendOfBoom":2w98fuil said:

Hawks2022":2w98fuil said:

With the defense flirting with breaking the worst defense in NFL history this year...clearly a change wouldn't hurt.

Would it work with the players we have?
Who would the 3 be?

I think they would have to draft some studs that are built for the scheme.

Click to expand...

Are you strictly referring to a 3-4 defense?

I believe Carroll’s defense is a 4-3 under/over fronts and that is how he has always played.

I don’t think he would change his stance on that.

Click to expand...

Yes, 3-4. Honestly I don't remember any hawks D that had a 3 man front line. I get that he might not want change...but until the last few games, this year was ugly!

Click to expand...

IIRC, Chuck Knox ran a 3-4. That was pre-Cortez, though.

Click to expand...

Beat me to it.

I am not suggesting we switch to the 3-4, I am suggesting the Seahawks don't rank #31 in the pass again next year, and that is going to require a change. That 31st ranking was not the first half of the season, thats the whole season.

If you want them to go out with the same crew and scheme...expect the same 2nd to last ranking. The Hawks have the best LBs and if any LB crew can make an adjustment...its those guys.

Dunbar could hold down one end, trade or draft for another. Plenty of D lineman to rotate in for the middle. Its not going to be an over night success...but in a couple of years they can have a soild line.

YES!!! When you rank #31 in the pass, change of any kind is a great thing. Whats the worst that can happen, they move down 1 spot

I don't care about the 3-4, I care about winning.

Hawks2022":399yafqy said:

I am not suggesting we switch to the 3-4, I am suggesting the Seahawks don't rank #31 in the pass again next year, and that is going to require a change. That 31st ranking was not the first half of the season, thats the whole season.

If you want them to go out with the same crew and scheme...expect the same 2nd to last ranking. The Hawks have the best LBs and if any LB crew can make an adjustment...its those guys.

Dunbar could hold down one end, trade or draft for another. Plenty of D lineman to rotate in for the middle. Its not going to be an over night success...but in a couple of years they can have a soild line.

YES!!! When you rank #31 in the pass, change of any kind is a great thing. Whats the worst that can happen, they move down 1 spot

I don't care about the 3-4, I care about winning.

Click to expand...

Ranking is a bad way to judge these things, because 32nd can be infinitely worse than 31st. They played much better as a unit in the second half of the season, and blowing up an improving unit isn't likely to net any good result. We need to judge stats with context.

The first half of 2020 saw a defense that was on pace to be the worst of all-time by a wide margin. They tightened things up and simplified the coverage scheme, as well as went out and got a new Leo. Defense suddenly looked above average.

Change of any kind is NOT always a great thing, and changing to a completely new defensive system that they don't have a good personnel fit for is a great way to undo all of the positive change that we saw in the second half of the year.

So uh, no. I don't expect the 31st ranked defense next year, and that's because I watched and understand that they figured out what the main problem was and demonstrably eliminated it. The results were there for us all to see.

I still don't get the suggestion, though. Like, what do you want from a 3-4? Who are gonna be the rush OLB's? If the LB's are the strength of the defensive unit, and they'd all be 3-4 ILBs, why do you want to overhaul what they're doing and take one of them off the field for the most part? It doesn't make sense. If the secondary is the issue (because you're mentioning pass defense), then why are you suggesting a change that mainly overhauls the front 7? If the pass rush is an issue, why do you want to switch to a scheme that completely removes the benefit of the teams best pass rusher in Dunlap?

Hawks2022":b47co8t7 said:

I get your point of a 3-4 would require massive change...but when the defence sucked as bad as it did the first+ half of the year, change is needed.

Click to expand...

Change was needed and it happened; the defense improved drastically over the second half of the season. Your post would make sense if the season had played out in reverse order, but it didn't. The order in which things occur matters.

If the D plays next year like the 2nd half hawks D did, I would keep everything the same. However that 31st ranking may have been the difference of a playoff win and I want tbose bad! With the 3-4, the LBs could drop back in coverage and help out the secondary. Yes, they would have to learn how to play OLB, but I think they could make the adjustment. I will leave the "Who will rush from the LB position" up to the coaches. Yes, putting 3 defensive lineman vs 5 OL, puts the front line and Dubar in a bad spot. However I am just thinking of ideas that would improve the defence as a whole. Honestly when I see the LBs playing the pass, they are never close to a getting an INT however they seem to be close enough to stop the receiver. The 3-4 would allow more of the Hawk's strongest position (LBs) to be out on the field...and I would at least want to give it a shot if the season starts off as bad as last year.

AgentDib":1gbicxd1 said:

Hawks2022":1gbicxd1 said:

I get your point of a 3-4 would require massive change...but when the defence sucked as bad as it did the first+ half of the year, change is needed.

Click to expand...

Change was needed and it happened; the defense improved drastically over the second half of the season. Your post would make sense if the season had played out in reverse order, but it didn't. The order in which things occur matters.

Click to expand...

The year ended with the Hawks having the 2nd worst pass defense. Reverse order that all you want, change is still needed in some fashion!

Hawks2022":3hl5ah8t said:

If the D plays next year like the 2nd half hawks D did, I would keep everything the same. However that 31st ranking may have been the difference of a playoff win and I want tbose bad! With the 3-4, the LBs could drop back in coverage and help out the secondary. Yes, they would have to learn how to play OLB, but I think they could make the adjustment. I will leave the "Who will rush from the LB position" up to the coaches. Yes, putting 3 defensive lineman vs 5 OL, puts the front line and Dubar in a bad spot. However I am just thinking of ideas that would improve the defence as a whole. Honestly when I see the LBs playing the pass, they are never close to a getting an INT however they seem to be close enough to stop the receiver. The 3-4 would allow more of the Hawk's strongest position (LBs) to be out on the field...and I would at least want to give it a shot if the season starts off as bad as last year.

Click to expand...

The "31st ranking" was not the difference between a playoff win and loss, because overall regular season rankings have no bearing on the playoffs. The defense played well in the stretch towards the playoffs and played fine in the playoffs despite the offense not being able to sustain drives or move the chains.

Also, you keep saying this would "allow more of the linebackers on the field." I don't think you fundamentally understand the 3-4 defense. Bobby, KJ, and Brooks all project to ILB in a 3-4 front. You'd be taking one of them OFF the field in a 3-4 and replacing them with guys who can set and edge and rush on the outside.

Unless, of course... you're talking about a scheme that'd have all 3 of those guys on the field at the same time (Bobby/KJ/Brooks), a dedicated rusher floating around the 7 to 9 technique gap, and then 3 bigger lineman from the 1 through 5 tech gaps. That might actually work...