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Metcalf Calls Out Carroll

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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:59 pm
  • PateratoWilson wrote:Where’s the irony in the fact that it took DK, not Russ, to make a point???

    I love the message and hopefully (not likely) this hits Pete in the balls. Russ, too actually.

    I mean what a perfect point by DK. It’s obvious and I’m glad he said it.


    Its more likely DK will get traded, or frozen out the offense than this impacting Wilson/PC in any way.

    They'll just remain in positivity land while the rest of the team suffers
    Jerhawk
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:59 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:Coincidence that it was Brandon Marshall doing the interview? The same guy who said there is trouble brewing in Seattle? This is 100% Wilson calling out Pete through DK. The power struggle between Pete and RW is real, and I think there is a real possibility that 2021-22 is RW's last year in Seattle. What a shame.


    Of course you have no proof this is Wilson speaking through DK, Maybe its Lockett, Maybe it's the whole offense, maybe it's the whole team or maybe its just DK.

    I do agree something will change, how soon not sure.

    Of course there is no proof but if he was that goes to what I have said.
    Be the MAN and LEAD..Speak up and heard!
    Don't be a sneaky behind the back spinless turd.
    IndyHawk
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:02 pm
  • IndyHawk wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:Coincidence that it was Brandon Marshall doing the interview? The same guy who said there is trouble brewing in Seattle? This is 100% Wilson calling out Pete through DK. The power struggle between Pete and RW is real, and I think there is a real possibility that 2021-22 is RW's last year in Seattle. What a shame.


    Of course you have no proof this is Wilson speaking through DK, Maybe its Lockett, Maybe it's the whole offense, maybe it's the whole team or maybe its just DK.

    I do agree something will change, how soon not sure.

    Of course there is no proof but if he was that goes to what I have said.
    Be the MAN and LEAD..Speak up and heard!
    Don't be a sneaky behind the back spinless turd.



    Okat and how do you know he has not. U don't know what's going in behind close doors. Also if your being honest with ur self u know if he did publicly alotnif fans would say he us talking out of place. U assume alot with no proof. Don't u think the guy deserves the benefit of the doubt that he has said it to the powers that be? I mean till u can prove otherwise why not presume he has.

    With no proof either way ur choice is to believe he has, or he has not, or he is using others. With no proof in any direction ur choice on what to believe says alot about u as a person as well as what u think of Wilson, and others.
    John63
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:21 pm
  • Hawaii-hawk wrote:
    BASF wrote:
    Hawaii-hawk wrote:2) literally only Pete Carroll defenders are saying it’s RW fault


    This is funny. There are a lot of people in the media who are pointing out that Wilson is not taking his check downs. It isn't some secret that the Seahawks have the third and fourth reads that are not being thrown to. There are plenty of videos out there pointing it out. It does not make them Pete Carroll defenders. It makes them people who study film and do not believe that behind closed doors, Carroll is telling Wilson not to throw to third and fourth receivers if they are in the short or intermediate routes.


    Show me the “media people” that are saying the offensive problems of the Seahawks are due primarily to RW.

    My guess is you can’t, you’re just taking whatever flaws in RWs game as pointed out by the media and taking it to whatever conclusion you want.

    Don’t worry, Pete’s gonna run it more. All our problems are solved. Just relax till next season and prepare your kudos to Pete for another wonderful season of barely scraping by garbage teams and getting killed by good ones all the way to a wildcard and massacre in the playoffs. Yay


    Your adversarial posting is not appreciated.

    Your hyperbole that the problems are due primarily to Wilson is not appreciated.

    Here are the links that you can take a look at where the people are pointing out exactly what I have been talking about:



    https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/whats-wrong-with-seahawks-qb-russell-wilson

    https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/russell-wilson-must-be-held-accountable-for-seahawks-second-half-meltdown

    There was a segment on NFL Network last week regarding Wilson not taking the plays that are there, but I can not find the video right now.
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:11 am
  • BASF wrote:
    Hawaii-hawk wrote:
    BASF wrote:
    Hawaii-hawk wrote:2) literally only Pete Carroll defenders are saying it’s RW fault


    This is funny. There are a lot of people in the media who are pointing out that Wilson is not taking his check downs. It isn't some secret that the Seahawks have the third and fourth reads that are not being thrown to. There are plenty of videos out there pointing it out. It does not make them Pete Carroll defenders. It makes them people who study film and do not believe that behind closed doors, Carroll is telling Wilson not to throw to third and fourth receivers if they are in the short or intermediate routes.


    Show me the “media people” that are saying the offensive problems of the Seahawks are due primarily to RW.

    My guess is you can’t, you’re just taking whatever flaws in RWs game as pointed out by the media and taking it to whatever conclusion you want.

    Don’t worry, Pete’s gonna run it more. All our problems are solved. Just relax till next season and prepare your kudos to Pete for another wonderful season of barely scraping by garbage teams and getting killed by good ones all the way to a wildcard and massacre in the playoffs. Yay


    Your adversarial posting is not appreciated.

    Your hyperbole that the problems are due primarily to Wilson is not appreciated.

    Here are the links that you can take a look at where the people are pointing out exactly what I have been talking about:



    https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/whats-wrong-with-seahawks-qb-russell-wilson

    https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/russell-wilson-must-be-held-accountable-for-seahawks-second-half-meltdown

    There was a segment on NFL Network last week regarding Wilson not taking the plays that are there, but I can not find the video right now.


    Great post. And this is where when you show either your own factual evidence of a great deal of shared responsibility for the failures last year and specifically Wilson leaving plays on the table, drive in and drive out, game in and game out, or evidence from experts versed in the pro game andnwith insight far beyond the average fan,, those trying to frame RW critics as just misguided 'haters' go silent.

    It's why post game, when a coach is asked about what went wrong in a game, unless it was plainly obvious, the answer usually is, 'I need to go back and look at the tape '. Any fan making a declarative statement about what's right or wrong with the offense based on Sunday's fox telecast and without seeing game tape and really trying to see the big picture is dealing in conspiracy theories and half-truths at best.

    There is literally half a season's worth of tape like the one covering the game vs the 49ers where Schotty called a great play and it went for zero or a loss because the ball just wasn't out on time. And frankly, I don't want to hear about how Pete Carrol forced Russel to not throw the ball to a wide open receiver over and over and over again. Russel is a 10yr vet now and should be able to distinguish between high risk and low risk, and understand the idea that if you get the ball out when you are supposed to, that when the playcall is exactly what you want, it makes it very difficult for the defender to make a play on the ball. Wait a split second, and that window closes. Basic timing.

    And this is what tempers my enthusiasm for our new OC hire. I think we made a brilliant move with Waldron. But you can call whatever play you want. Add all the razzle dazzle and innovative route deployments you want. If the ball isn't thrown when it's supposed to be, with accuracy and confidence and anticipation, the play will not work.

    Everyone clammers for an offensive system like KC, GB, TB, New Orleans, etc. Thats great and it looks like we have the potential for that now. But everyone ofnthe qbs in those systems has made a career of doing what RW failed to do over and over again last year and in season's past. If you disagree, look at the tape and offer an alternate explanation based on what actually happened and not just some blanket statement about the blocking needing to be better or Pete dictating plays.

    My hope is that Waldron can get into wilson's head and help him through this shortcoming in his game because it's been there now for a while. My hope is that THAT is the magic that Waldron brings, because what the tape shows is that he only has to be a hair more creative maybe than Shotty or maybe just Schotty's equal as a playcaller for us to be successful otherwise.

    As to Metcalf s frustration and calling out Pete. I personally think that's a lot of non story. I don't tbink he was calling him out as much as clumsily avoiding an answer, because last year, even in the second half, we were not a run, run, throw deep team. That's simply a false statement. And, if you watch the All22 of the Rams game (DKs tantrum game), there were a handful of plays where DK was agaun wide open on short routes and crosses and didn't get the ball. Everyine attributes his frustration to Pete's offense. I think he was pissed because he was inexplicably being missed by his qb.

    Russ and DK are tight. He absolutkey will not come out and say... yeah, a lot of times, the plays were there, we just didn't make them.
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:06 pm
  • keasley45 wrote:
    BASF wrote:
    Hawaii-hawk wrote:
    BASF wrote:
    This is funny. There are a lot of people in the media who are pointing out that Wilson is not taking his check downs. It isn't some secret that the Seahawks have the third and fourth reads that are not being thrown to. There are plenty of videos out there pointing it out. It does not make them Pete Carroll defenders. It makes them people who study film and do not believe that behind closed doors, Carroll is telling Wilson not to throw to third and fourth receivers if they are in the short or intermediate routes.


    Show me the “media people” that are saying the offensive problems of the Seahawks are due primarily to RW.

    My guess is you can’t, you’re just taking whatever flaws in RWs game as pointed out by the media and taking it to whatever conclusion you want.

    Don’t worry, Pete’s gonna run it more. All our problems are solved. Just relax till next season and prepare your kudos to Pete for another wonderful season of barely scraping by garbage teams and getting killed by good ones all the way to a wildcard and massacre in the playoffs. Yay


    Your adversarial posting is not appreciated.

    Your hyperbole that the problems are due primarily to Wilson is not appreciated.

    Here are the links that you can take a look at where the people are pointing out exactly what I have been talking about:



    https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/whats-wrong-with-seahawks-qb-russell-wilson

    https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/russell-wilson-must-be-held-accountable-for-seahawks-second-half-meltdown

    There was a segment on NFL Network last week regarding Wilson not taking the plays that are there, but I can not find the video right now.


    Great post. And this is where when you show either your own factual evidence of a great deal of shared responsibility for the failures last year and specifically Wilson leaving plays on the table, drive in and drive out, game in and game out, or evidence from experts versed in the pro game andnwith insight far beyond the average fan,, those trying to frame RW critics as just misguided 'haters' go silent.

    It's why post game, when a coach is asked about what went wrong in a game, unless it was plainly obvious, the answer usually is, 'I need to go back and look at the tape '. Any fan making a declarative statement about what's right or wrong with the offense based on Sunday's fox telecast and without seeing game tape and really trying to see the big picture is dealing in conspiracy theories and half-truths at best.

    There is literally half a season's worth of tape like the one covering the game vs the 49ers where Schotty called a great play and it went for zero or a loss because the ball just wasn't out on time. And frankly, I don't want to hear about how Pete Carrol forced Russel to not throw the ball to a wide open receiver over and over and over again. Russel is a 10yr vet now and should be able to distinguish between high risk and low risk, and understand the idea that if you get the ball out when you are supposed to, that when the playcall is exactly what you want, it makes it very difficult for the defender to make a play on the ball. Wait a split second, and that window closes. Basic timing.

    And this is what tempers my enthusiasm for our new OC hire. I think we made a brilliant move with Waldron. But you can call whatever play you want. Add all the razzle dazzle and innovative route deployments you want. If the ball isn't thrown when it's supposed to be, with accuracy and confidence and anticipation, the play will not work.

    Everyone clammers for an offensive system like KC, GB, TB, New Orleans, etc. Thats great and it looks like we have the potential for that now. But everyone ofnthe qbs in those systems has made a career of doing what RW failed to do over and over again last year and in season's past. If you disagree, look at the tape and offer an alternate explanation based on what actually happened and not just some blanket statement about the blocking needing to be better or Pete dictating plays.

    My hope is that Waldron can get into wilson's head and help him through this shortcoming in his game because it's been there now for a while. My hope is that THAT is the magic that Waldron brings, because what the tape shows is that he only has to be a hair more creative maybe than Shotty or maybe just Schotty's equal as a playcaller for us to be successful otherwise.

    As to Metcalf s frustration and calling out Pete. I personally think that's a lot of non story. I don't tbink he was calling him out as much as clumsily avoiding an answer, because last year, even in the second half, we were not a run, run, throw deep team. That's simply a false statement. And, if you watch the All22 of the Rams game (DKs tantrum game), there were a handful of plays where DK was agaun wide open on short routes and crosses and didn't get the ball. Everyine attributes his frustration to Pete's offense. I think he was pissed because he was inexplicably being missed by his qb.

    Russ and DK are tight. He absolutkey will not come out and say... yeah, a lot of times, the plays were there, we just didn't make them.



    I will say it again, here is the problem you can prove what the progression is. Great someone was open, but was he open in the progression, was there a throwing lane. Etc. I saw the very first play were the person was open on the left. great except he was not open when Wilson looked that way, there is no throwing lane, he would have had to float it over the defenders which is very dangerous. I know some of you need so badly for Wilson to be the biggest problem, Fact is he is not. Since you love fact so much, the FACT is DK called out PC not Wilson. You can try as much as you want to come up with a lame excuse why that is not what he did etc etc, but he did. So why don't we all stop pretending like we really know what is going on, we don't. all we are doing is proving either we are Wilson lovers, Wilson haters, or making crap up to stir the pot. Here is a fact for you 101.7, 3.5-1, 65%. You don't get career numbers like that if you just ignore open people all the time. Last year, 68.8, 3-1, 105.1 again you don't get season numbers like that ignoring open people.
    John63
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:39 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    BASF wrote:
    Hawaii-hawk wrote:
    Show me the “media people” that are saying the offensive problems of the Seahawks are due primarily to RW.

    My guess is you can’t, you’re just taking whatever flaws in RWs game as pointed out by the media and taking it to whatever conclusion you want.

    Don’t worry, Pete’s gonna run it more. All our problems are solved. Just relax till next season and prepare your kudos to Pete for another wonderful season of barely scraping by garbage teams and getting killed by good ones all the way to a wildcard and massacre in the playoffs. Yay


    Your adversarial posting is not appreciated.

    Your hyperbole that the problems are due primarily to Wilson is not appreciated.

    Here are the links that you can take a look at where the people are pointing out exactly what I have been talking about:



    https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/whats-wrong-with-seahawks-qb-russell-wilson

    https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/russell-wilson-must-be-held-accountable-for-seahawks-second-half-meltdown

    There was a segment on NFL Network last week regarding Wilson not taking the plays that are there, but I can not find the video right now.


    Great post. And this is where when you show either your own factual evidence of a great deal of shared responsibility for the failures last year and specifically Wilson leaving plays on the table, drive in and drive out, game in and game out, or evidence from experts versed in the pro game andnwith insight far beyond the average fan,, those trying to frame RW critics as just misguided 'haters' go silent.

    It's why post game, when a coach is asked about what went wrong in a game, unless it was plainly obvious, the answer usually is, 'I need to go back and look at the tape '. Any fan making a declarative statement about what's right or wrong with the offense based on Sunday's fox telecast and without seeing game tape and really trying to see the big picture is dealing in conspiracy theories and half-truths at best.

    There is literally half a season's worth of tape like the one covering the game vs the 49ers where Schotty called a great play and it went for zero or a loss because the ball just wasn't out on time. And frankly, I don't want to hear about how Pete Carrol forced Russel to not throw the ball to a wide open receiver over and over and over again. Russel is a 10yr vet now and should be able to distinguish between high risk and low risk, and understand the idea that if you get the ball out when you are supposed to, that when the playcall is exactly what you want, it makes it very difficult for the defender to make a play on the ball. Wait a split second, and that window closes. Basic timing.

    And this is what tempers my enthusiasm for our new OC hire. I think we made a brilliant move with Waldron. But you can call whatever play you want. Add all the razzle dazzle and innovative route deployments you want. If the ball isn't thrown when it's supposed to be, with accuracy and confidence and anticipation, the play will not work.

    Everyone clammers for an offensive system like KC, GB, TB, New Orleans, etc. Thats great and it looks like we have the potential for that now. But everyone ofnthe qbs in those systems has made a career of doing what RW failed to do over and over again last year and in season's past. If you disagree, look at the tape and offer an alternate explanation based on what actually happened and not just some blanket statement about the blocking needing to be better or Pete dictating plays.

    My hope is that Waldron can get into wilson's head and help him through this shortcoming in his game because it's been there now for a while. My hope is that THAT is the magic that Waldron brings, because what the tape shows is that he only has to be a hair more creative maybe than Shotty or maybe just Schotty's equal as a playcaller for us to be successful otherwise.

    As to Metcalf s frustration and calling out Pete. I personally think that's a lot of non story. I don't tbink he was calling him out as much as clumsily avoiding an answer, because last year, even in the second half, we were not a run, run, throw deep team. That's simply a false statement. And, if you watch the All22 of the Rams game (DKs tantrum game), there were a handful of plays where DK was agaun wide open on short routes and crosses and didn't get the ball. Everyine attributes his frustration to Pete's offense. I think he was pissed because he was inexplicably being missed by his qb.

    Russ and DK are tight. He absolutkey will not come out and say... yeah, a lot of times, the plays were there, we just didn't make them.



    I will say it again, here is the problem you can prove what the progression is. Great someone was open, but was he open in the progression, was there a throwing lane. Etc. I saw the very first play were the person was open on the left. great except he was not open when Wilson looked that way, there is no throwing lane, he would have had to float it over the defenders which is very dangerous. I know some of you need so badly for Wilson to be the biggest problem, Fact is he is not. Since you love fact so much, the FACT is DK called out PC not Wilson. You can try as much as you want to come up with a lame excuse why that is not what he did etc etc, but he did. So why don't we all stop pretending like we really know what is going on, we don't. all we are doing is proving either we are Wilson lovers, Wilson haters, or making crap up to stir the pot. Here is a fact for you 101.7, 3.5-1, 65%. You don't get career numbers like that if you just ignore open people all the time. Last year, 68.8, 3-1, 105.1 again you don't get season numbers like that ignoring open people.
    That’s your fallback “was it in the progression” lately when folks show tape of Wilson failing to pull the trigger on a short or middle route.

    It fails utterly because keasley45 quite rightly pointed out that all you do is spout speculation as a fan if you’re not watching or responding to tape.

    Its clear you do not watch tape because the progression is addressed over and over and OVER in the tape and the tape analysts on Twitter and YouTube.

    You can’t be bothered with any of that because it would expose your baseless accusations. “It’s Pete’s fault he didn’t call the touchdown play”. “It’s Pete’s fault he won’t let Russ throw a short pass”.

    Matty brown on Twitter is *constantly* showing tape of Wilson staring at short routes and not pulling the trigger. Progression my ass, the guy won’t let it go. You’ll see tweets 5 times a game where he says, and shows, that Wilson doesn’t like his primary read, though the play is open. Often times because it’s zone under and Wilson can’t see and is afraid of a LB lurking outside the passing lane. IMO Wilson is right to be scared of that, but the bottom line is the OC has schemed a wide open receiver underneath for nothing, because it’s Wilson’s limitations that prevent him from throwing it there.

    Which is why no OC is going to be able to present Wilson with a short game, and why all we can do vs the light boxes and 2 high is run 30 times. Maybe a new OC can do enough in the intermediate to make up for it but I doubt it. When Wilson is stymied by MLBs it just makes it awful easy to cover the rest of the field. Contrast that with how often our own LBs get used over the middle in coverage by pedestrian QBs.

    Wilson’s struggles here also hurt his OL, heavily. Early in the season when he was seeing man looks under and threw short OL was perfectly fine. Go watch those games and it’s obvious Wilson is comfortable vs man and completed short passes when he saw a trailer.

    Some Twitter tape analysts like cmikesspinmove theorize that a stud TE or large stud slot would help but LOL, if you have the best split end in the game and a great flanker in Lockett and still can’t operate vs 2 high without a stud slot or TE then give some of your salary back because you need to pay 3 pro bowl weapons and an OL and a bell cow back.

    Wilson is a winner and we can win with him but but the conversation is boring and useless when we can’t deal with his actual strengths and weaknesses.
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:51 pm
  • hawk45 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    BASF wrote:
    Your adversarial posting is not appreciated.

    Your hyperbole that the problems are due primarily to Wilson is not appreciated.

    Here are the links that you can take a look at where the people are pointing out exactly what I have been talking about:



    https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/whats-wrong-with-seahawks-qb-russell-wilson

    https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/russell-wilson-must-be-held-accountable-for-seahawks-second-half-meltdown

    There was a segment on NFL Network last week regarding Wilson not taking the plays that are there, but I can not find the video right now.


    Great post. And this is where when you show either your own factual evidence of a great deal of shared responsibility for the failures last year and specifically Wilson leaving plays on the table, drive in and drive out, game in and game out, or evidence from experts versed in the pro game andnwith insight far beyond the average fan,, those trying to frame RW critics as just misguided 'haters' go silent.

    It's why post game, when a coach is asked about what went wrong in a game, unless it was plainly obvious, the answer usually is, 'I need to go back and look at the tape '. Any fan making a declarative statement about what's right or wrong with the offense based on Sunday's fox telecast and without seeing game tape and really trying to see the big picture is dealing in conspiracy theories and half-truths at best.

    There is literally half a season's worth of tape like the one covering the game vs the 49ers where Schotty called a great play and it went for zero or a loss because the ball just wasn't out on time. And frankly, I don't want to hear about how Pete Carrol forced Russel to not throw the ball to a wide open receiver over and over and over again. Russel is a 10yr vet now and should be able to distinguish between high risk and low risk, and understand the idea that if you get the ball out when you are supposed to, that when the playcall is exactly what you want, it makes it very difficult for the defender to make a play on the ball. Wait a split second, and that window closes. Basic timing.

    And this is what tempers my enthusiasm for our new OC hire. I think we made a brilliant move with Waldron. But you can call whatever play you want. Add all the razzle dazzle and innovative route deployments you want. If the ball isn't thrown when it's supposed to be, with accuracy and confidence and anticipation, the play will not work.

    Everyone clammers for an offensive system like KC, GB, TB, New Orleans, etc. Thats great and it looks like we have the potential for that now. But everyone ofnthe qbs in those systems has made a career of doing what RW failed to do over and over again last year and in season's past. If you disagree, look at the tape and offer an alternate explanation based on what actually happened and not just some blanket statement about the blocking needing to be better or Pete dictating plays.

    My hope is that Waldron can get into wilson's head and help him through this shortcoming in his game because it's been there now for a while. My hope is that THAT is the magic that Waldron brings, because what the tape shows is that he only has to be a hair more creative maybe than Shotty or maybe just Schotty's equal as a playcaller for us to be successful otherwise.

    As to Metcalf s frustration and calling out Pete. I personally think that's a lot of non story. I don't tbink he was calling him out as much as clumsily avoiding an answer, because last year, even in the second half, we were not a run, run, throw deep team. That's simply a false statement. And, if you watch the All22 of the Rams game (DKs tantrum game), there were a handful of plays where DK was agaun wide open on short routes and crosses and didn't get the ball. Everyine attributes his frustration to Pete's offense. I think he was pissed because he was inexplicably being missed by his qb.

    Russ and DK are tight. He absolutkey will not come out and say... yeah, a lot of times, the plays were there, we just didn't make them.



    I will say it again, here is the problem you can prove what the progression is. Great someone was open, but was he open in the progression, was there a throwing lane. Etc. I saw the very first play were the person was open on the left. great except he was not open when Wilson looked that way, there is no throwing lane, he would have had to float it over the defenders which is very dangerous. I know some of you need so badly for Wilson to be the biggest problem, Fact is he is not. Since you love fact so much, the FACT is DK called out PC not Wilson. You can try as much as you want to come up with a lame excuse why that is not what he did etc etc, but he did. So why don't we all stop pretending like we really know what is going on, we don't. all we are doing is proving either we are Wilson lovers, Wilson haters, or making crap up to stir the pot. Here is a fact for you 101.7, 3.5-1, 65%. You don't get career numbers like that if you just ignore open people all the time. Last year, 68.8, 3-1, 105.1 again you don't get season numbers like that ignoring open people.
    That’s your fallback “was it in the progression” lately when folks show tape of Wilson failing to pull the trigger on a short or middle route.

    It fails utterly because keasley45 quite rightly pointed out that all you do is spout speculation as a fan if you’re not watching or responding to tape.

    Its clear you do not watch tape because the progression is addressed over and over and OVER in the tape and the tape analysts on Twitter and YouTube.

    You can’t be bothered with any of that because it would expose your baseless accusations. “It’s Pete’s fault he didn’t call the touchdown play”. “It’s Pete’s fault he won’t let Russ throw a short pass”.

    Matty brown on Twitter is *constantly* showing tape of Wilson staring at short routes and not pulling the trigger. Progression my ass, the guy won’t let it go. You’ll see tweets 5 times a game where he says, and shows, that Wilson doesn’t like his primary read, though the play is open. Often times because it’s zone under and Wilson can’t see and is afraid of a LB lurking outside the passing lane. IMO Wilson is right to be scared of that, but the bottom line is the OC has schemed a wide open receiver underneath for nothing, because it’s Wilson’s limitations that prevent him from throwing it there.

    Which is why no OC is going to be able to present Wilson with a short game, and why all we can do vs the light boxes and 2 high is run 30 times. Maybe a new OC can do enough in the intermediate to make up for it but I doubt it. When Wilson is stymied by MLBs it just makes it awful easy to cover the rest of the field. Contrast that with how often our own LBs get used over the middle in coverage by pedestrian QBs.

    Wilson’s struggles here also hurt his OL, heavily. Early in the season when he was seeing man looks under and threw short OL was perfectly fine. Go watch those games and it’s obvious Wilson is comfortable vs man and completed short passes when he saw a trailer.

    Some Twitter tape analysts like cmikesspinmove theorize that a stud TE or large stud slot would help but LOL, if you have the best split end in the game and a great flanker in Lockett and still can’t operate vs 2 high without a stud slot or TE then give some of your salary back because you need to pay 3 pro bowl weapons and an OL and a bell cow back.

    Wilson is a winner and we can win with him but but the conversation is boring and useless when we can’t deal with his actual strengths and weaknesses.


    that's your fall back and everyone to ignore progressions, throwing lanes things every QB in the world needs and dopes. Why because it fits your narrative. IF playing Qb in the NFL was simple as hey someone ins the stands sees someone open so throw it everyone would be QB its not. IF the guy who did this breakdown and by the way for everyone saying this there is one saying what I am saying, he would be in the NFL right now. He is not. Th eolines struggles have hurt Wilson, so has the scheme, and OCs pension for focusing on safe throws, and wanting junk plays Your point is moot. The reality is the struggles of this offense lay at the feet of the man who runs it all PC. The 2 wbs who played under PC in Seattle also had the same issues. The O line was ranked close to last with them too. Recognizing someones strengths and weaknesses is fine but to do it in a silo like there are not others things impacting them is short-sighted at best. So basically if you are saying the sole reason for the offensive problem is all Wilson which is the way it sure sounds, then you really don't know much about football at all.
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:57 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    hawk45 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    Great post. And this is where when you show either your own factual evidence of a great deal of shared responsibility for the failures last year and specifically Wilson leaving plays on the table, drive in and drive out, game in and game out, or evidence from experts versed in the pro game andnwith insight far beyond the average fan,, those trying to frame RW critics as just misguided 'haters' go silent.

    It's why post game, when a coach is asked about what went wrong in a game, unless it was plainly obvious, the answer usually is, 'I need to go back and look at the tape '. Any fan making a declarative statement about what's right or wrong with the offense based on Sunday's fox telecast and without seeing game tape and really trying to see the big picture is dealing in conspiracy theories and half-truths at best.

    There is literally half a season's worth of tape like the one covering the game vs the 49ers where Schotty called a great play and it went for zero or a loss because the ball just wasn't out on time. And frankly, I don't want to hear about how Pete Carrol forced Russel to not throw the ball to a wide open receiver over and over and over again. Russel is a 10yr vet now and should be able to distinguish between high risk and low risk, and understand the idea that if you get the ball out when you are supposed to, that when the playcall is exactly what you want, it makes it very difficult for the defender to make a play on the ball. Wait a split second, and that window closes. Basic timing.

    And this is what tempers my enthusiasm for our new OC hire. I think we made a brilliant move with Waldron. But you can call whatever play you want. Add all the razzle dazzle and innovative route deployments you want. If the ball isn't thrown when it's supposed to be, with accuracy and confidence and anticipation, the play will not work.

    Everyone clammers for an offensive system like KC, GB, TB, New Orleans, etc. Thats great and it looks like we have the potential for that now. But everyone ofnthe qbs in those systems has made a career of doing what RW failed to do over and over again last year and in season's past. If you disagree, look at the tape and offer an alternate explanation based on what actually happened and not just some blanket statement about the blocking needing to be better or Pete dictating plays.

    My hope is that Waldron can get into wilson's head and help him through this shortcoming in his game because it's been there now for a while. My hope is that THAT is the magic that Waldron brings, because what the tape shows is that he only has to be a hair more creative maybe than Shotty or maybe just Schotty's equal as a playcaller for us to be successful otherwise.

    As to Metcalf s frustration and calling out Pete. I personally think that's a lot of non story. I don't tbink he was calling him out as much as clumsily avoiding an answer, because last year, even in the second half, we were not a run, run, throw deep team. That's simply a false statement. And, if you watch the All22 of the Rams game (DKs tantrum game), there were a handful of plays where DK was agaun wide open on short routes and crosses and didn't get the ball. Everyine attributes his frustration to Pete's offense. I think he was pissed because he was inexplicably being missed by his qb.

    Russ and DK are tight. He absolutkey will not come out and say... yeah, a lot of times, the plays were there, we just didn't make them.



    I will say it again, here is the problem you can prove what the progression is. Great someone was open, but was he open in the progression, was there a throwing lane. Etc. I saw the very first play were the person was open on the left. great except he was not open when Wilson looked that way, there is no throwing lane, he would have had to float it over the defenders which is very dangerous. I know some of you need so badly for Wilson to be the biggest problem, Fact is he is not. Since you love fact so much, the FACT is DK called out PC not Wilson. You can try as much as you want to come up with a lame excuse why that is not what he did etc etc, but he did. So why don't we all stop pretending like we really know what is going on, we don't. all we are doing is proving either we are Wilson lovers, Wilson haters, or making crap up to stir the pot. Here is a fact for you 101.7, 3.5-1, 65%. You don't get career numbers like that if you just ignore open people all the time. Last year, 68.8, 3-1, 105.1 again you don't get season numbers like that ignoring open people.
    That’s your fallback “was it in the progression” lately when folks show tape of Wilson failing to pull the trigger on a short or middle route.

    It fails utterly because keasley45 quite rightly pointed out that all you do is spout speculation as a fan if you’re not watching or responding to tape.

    Its clear you do not watch tape because the progression is addressed over and over and OVER in the tape and the tape analysts on Twitter and YouTube.

    You can’t be bothered with any of that because it would expose your baseless accusations. “It’s Pete’s fault he didn’t call the touchdown play”. “It’s Pete’s fault he won’t let Russ throw a short pass”.

    Matty brown on Twitter is *constantly* showing tape of Wilson staring at short routes and not pulling the trigger. Progression my ass, the guy won’t let it go. You’ll see tweets 5 times a game where he says, and shows, that Wilson doesn’t like his primary read, though the play is open. Often times because it’s zone under and Wilson can’t see and is afraid of a LB lurking outside the passing lane. IMO Wilson is right to be scared of that, but the bottom line is the OC has schemed a wide open receiver underneath for nothing, because it’s Wilson’s limitations that prevent him from throwing it there.

    Which is why no OC is going to be able to present Wilson with a short game, and why all we can do vs the light boxes and 2 high is run 30 times. Maybe a new OC can do enough in the intermediate to make up for it but I doubt it. When Wilson is stymied by MLBs it just makes it awful easy to cover the rest of the field. Contrast that with how often our own LBs get used over the middle in coverage by pedestrian QBs.

    Wilson’s struggles here also hurt his OL, heavily. Early in the season when he was seeing man looks under and threw short OL was perfectly fine. Go watch those games and it’s obvious Wilson is comfortable vs man and completed short passes when he saw a trailer.

    Some Twitter tape analysts like cmikesspinmove theorize that a stud TE or large stud slot would help but LOL, if you have the best split end in the game and a great flanker in Lockett and still can’t operate vs 2 high without a stud slot or TE then give some of your salary back because you need to pay 3 pro bowl weapons and an OL and a bell cow back.

    Wilson is a winner and we can win with him but but the conversation is boring and useless when we can’t deal with his actual strengths and weaknesses.


    that's your fall back and everyone to ignore progressions, throwing lanes things every QB in the world needs and dopes. Why because it fits your narrative. IF playing Qb in the NFL was simple as hey someone ins the stands sees someone open so throw it everyone would be QB its not. IF the guy who did this breakdown and by the way for everyone saying this there is one saying what I am saying, he would be in the NFL right now. He is not. Th eolines struggles have hurt Wilson, so has the scheme, and OCs pension for focusing on safe throws, and wanting junk plays Your point is moot. The reality is the struggles of this offense lay at the feet of the man who runs it all PC. The 2 wbs who played under PC in Seattle also had the same issues. The O line was ranked close to last with them too. Recognizing someones strengths and weaknesses is fine but to do it in a silo like there are not others things impacting them is short-sighted at best. So basically if you are saying the sole reason for the offensive problem is all Wilson which is the way it sure sounds, then you really don't know much about football at all.


    Nope. Never said the sole reason for the offensive failures are on Wilson. Just that the sole reason for our struggles aren't Pete manipulating plays or a porous offensive line.

    And frankly the defense that the open receiver wasn't in his 'progression' is nonsense. When a qb double clutches, hesitates, looks at a wr and chooses not to throw, he's read the play and simply chose not to. Why? Again. It's incredible how according to some, none of the offensive woes fall on Wilson. Laughable even.

    And now the guys who are also pointing out these flaws on SI or other platforms are uninformed as well? Just like I said, anyone who has the most remote notion that PART of the blame is wilson's is just a hater. Doesnt matter if you've played football, are an avid fan that looks beyond the Sunday telecast or are analyzing a team's play for a sports outlet. If you think russ is at fault, your nuts. OK...

    And you are proving my point. Playing qb at any high level is hard. Very hard. Which is why when you have a qb that sees the field exceptionally well, reads the defense well (pre AND POST snap), anticipates a wr coming open well, they are the ones that routinely are labeled elite. To say the only reason Rogers, Brady and the rest are so good is because they have all world o lines or all world OC's is just shortsighted. It's a reciprocal relationship. The o line helps the qb, but is made to look better if the qb gets the ball out. The OC gets the right call in, but is made to look better or worse depending on the qb's ability to execute the play the way it was called.

    I never said russel couldn't do those things. I said that he plainly isn't right now. I'm aware of throwing lanes. I'm aware of progressions in a read. Im also aware that when a seasoned qb walks up tonthe line, looks at the d and sees that his no 1 is gonna be bracketed on his route, his number 2 is likely running into zone, that he has a good feel that the number 3 is likely now the primary. BEFORE the ball is snapped. Rogers does that play in and play out. Reads it. Ball comes out. Brady does it. Brees did it. The best of the best do. Russ is struggling with it.

    It's not a narrative. Deny it if you want. Look at the film and find as many reasons as you want for why it happens, other than Russ is struggling. Doesnt matter to me. But its foolish to think changing the pkaycall alone will improve things.

    Russ is a great QB. A phenomenal talent. But he is struggling. Something isn't clicking. He's holdingbthr ball too long and not getting it out in rhythm to the guy the defense is plainly dictating it should go to.

    And this is a problem that is on russ and his OC to fix as much as diversifying the playbook. A good OC absolutkry can get a QB to overcome those things even mid career. Rich Gannon was a journeyman on the way to being a perennial backup before Gruden got to him and it clicked. Just one of many examples. The thing we are blessed with is Russ has been HOF good and I don't think he's yet to have it all click for him. Like I said. He's made the space for himself to buy thr time he needs to make a play outside the flow of the pkaycall. Thats all good. But the offense will be more consistent when he can do that AND read, adapt and execute the plays called with the same deadly efficiency as the other elite qb's in the league.

    And what I'm saying doesn't remove fault from the bone headed playcalls we've seen, or the dumb decisions by Pete, or the spotty play at other positions (#3 wr, o-line, rb play). Just saying russ needs to shoulder the blame, and many around herebseem to think that he is just a victim of an old stubborn coach or stale playcalling. Evidence says otherwise.
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:24 pm
  • John63 wrote:all we are doing is proving either we are Wilson lovers, Wilson haters, or making crap up to stir the pot.


    This board does seem to have taken on a Twilight: Team Edward vs Team Jacob vibe and it is very sad to see people I once had the utmost respect for who only post now about how Pete Carroll is holding the team back. All of them seem to believe that Wilson had no hand in the offensive struggles when all you have to do is look at the All-22 and you see that Wilson was not taking what he was given the second half of the season. This does not by any means absolve Pete of trying to rein in what Wilson was doing. Some of the interceptions he threw were fantastic plays by the defensive player. However, some of them were bad decisions with him throwing into ridiculous coverage when he could have taken other open receivers or run for first downs, which is probably what Carroll said behind closed doors.
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:15 pm
  • Pete runs this. He has the final say. If you think Russ sabotaged Schotty or Schotty had any control over this, I don’t know what to tell you.
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:13 am
  • Elemas wrote:Pete runs this. He has the final say. If you think Russ sabotaged Schotty or Schotty had any control over this, I don’t know what to tell you.


    Which is funny, because I have been thinking that some members of this board talk about this football team like it is a telenovela.
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:11 am
  • BASF wrote:
    John63 wrote:all we are doing is proving either we are Wilson lovers, Wilson haters, or making crap up to stir the pot.


    This board does seem to have taken on a Twilight: Team Edward vs Team Jacob vibe and it is very sad to see people I once had the utmost respect for who only post now about how Pete Carroll is holding the team back. All of them seem to believe that Wilson had no hand in the offensive struggles when all you have to do is look at the All-22 and you see that Wilson was not taking what he was given the second half of the season. This does not by any means absolve Pete of trying to rein in what Wilson was doing. Some of the interceptions he threw were fantastic plays by the defensive player. However, some of them were bad decisions with him throwing into ridiculous coverage when he could have taken other open receivers or run for first downs, which is probably what Carroll said behind closed doors.


    I agree with you here. Russ was definitely not playing up to his potential. But, we know PC has ultimate authority. If Goff is playing that bad, McVay benches him. From what I’ve seen and understood, Pete directed the offense to change, likely had a large part in playcalling or took over the calls. Somehow, maybe due to Schottys inability to adjust to two high safeties (who knows??), we fell apart on offense. Season ends...Schotty gets fired.

    All I’m saying is that Pete makes the final decisions. When you captain the ship, are CEO of a company, or your the Base Commander in the military, or are the head coach of a football team and something goes haywire, it’s ultimately your responsibility.
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:08 pm
  • So I remember the last niner game being one where the narrative was about the OC calling only long pass plays. I went back and watched the 2 sacks in that game (small sample size, but worth seeing what went wrong when a sack is completed by the opposition).

    7:22 left in the 2nd quarter. 3rd and 8. Wilson has about 2 seconds to get the ball out and then gets engulfed. Bad OL? OC calls all deep routes? Nope. There’s a Lockett crosser but it’s covered up so not Russ there. However San Francisco shows a pre snap read of bringing the house. They bring six (I’m pretty certain? Small phone I’m rewatching on, at least 5). Someone, Russ, WR, should have adjusted to hot. I feel pretty solid assigning at least partial blame to the 35 million dollar QB.

    :25 left in the second quarter. 1st and 15. Russ is sacked immediately. OL? All deep routes? Nope and this one is atrocious by Wilson. Dontae Johnson is showing corner blitz on Wilson’s right side. Because Johnson is coming, locketts crosser is WIDE open and probably picks up all 15. This is all 100% obvious from the pre snap read. Wilson does not get it out quickly to Lockett. Wilson is caught completely unprepared by the corner shooting in like a missile and covers up for the sack. OL had no chance at all because the QB inexplicably ignores a corner blitz like it was 2012 and he still had the athleticism to avoid a free rusher. This is a trend with Wilson, ignoring the corner blitz, and I throw things every time I see a corner on the LOS.

    I won’t take these two plays and say they prove Wilson is to blame for every sack of the year. But as I said, I remember the narrative in real time was damn that OC and damn that OL and we definitely see there are quite reasonable things Wilson can be doing to help out his OL that he demonstrably did not do, resulting in the only two sacks. OL doing its job just fine.

    Wilson was the 2nd most blitzed QB behind cam Newton as of nov 18 (article I found). Wilson handled the blitz well in 2019. I can’t find the analysis for 2020 yet but this approach neutralized our passing offense largely in the second half of the season so it’s something teams do not fear us beating, or beating to great effect. Makes sense: force Wilson to get the ball out quickly, something he struggles with.

    This is not the picture of a horrid OL. Yes the rams owned us in the trenches that’s the rams. Teams respect our OL and disrespect Wilson’s blitz reactions enough to send extra men at a high rate. Even if some analysis comes out that Wilson was okay vs the blitz, the overall limiting of our passing offense is why teams would not and did not stop blitzing. We can not dink and dunk period why would they change.

    Ultimately Pete was right this year: we should have run more. Light boxes. Quit trying to get Wilson to be comfortable over the short middle. This would be viewed as Pete’s imagination limiting russels production but that’s not what it is.
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:10 pm
  • hawk45 wrote:So I remember the last niner game being one where the narrative was about the OC calling only long pass plays. I went back and watched the 2 sacks in that game (small sample size, but worth seeing what went wrong when a sack is completed by the opposition).

    7:22 left in the 2nd quarter. 3rd and 8. Wilson has about 2 seconds to get the ball out and then gets engulfed. Bad OL? OC calls all deep routes? Nope. There’s a Lockett crosser but it’s covered up so not Russ there. However San Francisco shows a pre snap read of bringing the house. They bring six (I’m pretty certain? Small phone I’m rewatching on, at least 5). Someone, Russ, WR, should have adjusted to hot. I feel pretty solid assigning at least partial blame to the 35 million dollar QB.

    :25 left in the second quarter. 1st and 15. Russ is sacked immediately. OL? All deep routes? Nope and this one is atrocious by Wilson. Dontae Johnson is showing corner blitz on Wilson’s right side. Because Johnson is coming, locketts crosser is WIDE open and probably picks up all 15. This is all 100% obvious from the pre snap read. Wilson does not get it out quickly to Lockett. Wilson is caught completely unprepared by the corner shooting in like a missile and covers up for the sack. OL had no chance at all because the QB inexplicably ignores a corner blitz like it was 2012 and he still had the athleticism to avoid a free rusher. This is a trend with Wilson, ignoring the corner blitz, and I throw things every time I see a corner on the LOS.

    I won’t take these two plays and say they prove Wilson is to blame for every sack of the year. But as I said, I remember the narrative in real time was damn that OC and damn that OL and we definitely see there are quite reasonable things Wilson can be doing to help out his OL that he demonstrably did not do, resulting in the only two sacks. OL doing its job just fine.

    Wilson was the 2nd most blitzed QB behind cam Newton as of nov 18 (article I found). Wilson handled the blitz well in 2019. I can’t find the analysis for 2020 yet but this approach neutralized our passing offense largely in the second half of the season so it’s something teams do not fear us beating, or beating to great effect. Makes sense: force Wilson to get the ball out quickly, something he struggles with.

    This is not the picture of a horrid OL. Yes the rams owned us in the trenches that’s the rams. Teams respect our OL and disrespect Wilson’s blitz reactions enough to send extra men at a high rate. Even if some analysis comes out that Wilson was okay vs the blitz, the overall limiting of our passing offense is why teams would not and did not stop blitzing. We can not dink and dunk period why would they change.

    Ultimately Pete was right this year: we should have run more. Light boxes. Quit trying to get Wilson to be comfortable over the short middle. This would be viewed as Pete’s imagination limiting russels production but that’s not what it is.



    Hmm so a qb engulfed in w seconds or less is not a oline issue? Even an avg line should give 2.5. Plus how do u know Wilson did not call or say something and the oline just missed the call? U see tape is easy to lay blame. You have no real clue what went on. Footballoutsiders takes ibto account sacks were the qb is yo blame. We were 26th in pass blocking. Not good at all. Do I think some sacks are on Wilson yes. Do I think more than 10% no. Also great someone was open, but were they open at their turn in progression. Did he have a throwing lane etc etc. You know the things every qb needs.

    But since if we go by your analysis it appears Wilson is the problem trade him. I mean Brees and Rodgers are way better they have won way more SBs..oh wait they have not. But they have won way more games than Wilson since 2012...oh wait they have not. Hmm wow for a guy that is the problem he sure wins a lot and is in the top 5 alot. Oh well hr is the problem get rid of him I am sure any qb with PC can have a winning season every year, go to the playoffs almost every year, etc etc. Trade him. After all he is the problem.
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:47 pm
  • IndyHawk wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:Coincidence that it was Brandon Marshall doing the interview? The same guy who said there is trouble brewing in Seattle? This is 100% Wilson calling out Pete through DK. The power struggle between Pete and RW is real, and I think there is a real possibility that 2021-22 is RW's last year in Seattle. What a shame.


    Of course you have no proof this is Wilson speaking through DK, Maybe its Lockett, Maybe it's the whole offense, maybe it's the whole team or maybe its just DK.

    I do agree something will change, how soon not sure.

    Of course there is no proof but if he was that goes to what I have said.
    Be the MAN and LEAD..Speak up and heard!
    Don't be a sneaky behind the back spinless turd.



    A spineless turd? Oh, okay. This is how far we’re going on this board. But moderators have an issue with Wilson defenders. Interesting.

    By the way, just over a week ago when Wilson said he wanted to be involved in the OC search, he was criticized for speaking up and trying to dictate terms. Now, he’s a spineless turd for not speaking up. What are you going to imply Wilson is next? Garbage? Or something more derogatory
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:51 pm
  • BASF wrote:
    Hawaii-hawk wrote:
    BASF wrote:
    Hawaii-hawk wrote:2) literally only Pete Carroll defenders are saying it’s RW fault


    This is funny. There are a lot of people in the media who are pointing out that Wilson is not taking his check downs. It isn't some secret that the Seahawks have the third and fourth reads that are not being thrown to. There are plenty of videos out there pointing it out. It does not make them Pete Carroll defenders. It makes them people who study film and do not believe that behind closed doors, Carroll is telling Wilson not to throw to third and fourth receivers if they are in the short or intermediate routes.


    Show me the “media people” that are saying the offensive problems of the Seahawks are due primarily to RW.

    My guess is you can’t, you’re just taking whatever flaws in RWs game as pointed out by the media and taking it to whatever conclusion you want.

    Don’t worry, Pete’s gonna run it more. All our problems are solved. Just relax till next season and prepare your kudos to Pete for another wonderful season of barely scraping by garbage teams and getting killed by good ones all the way to a wildcard and massacre in the playoffs. Yay


    Your adversarial posting is not appreciated.

    Your hyperbole that the problems are due primarily to Wilson is not appreciated.

    Here are the links that you can take a look at where the people are pointing out exactly what I have been talking about:



    https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/whats-wrong-with-seahawks-qb-russell-wilson

    https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/russell-wilson-must-be-held-accountable-for-seahawks-second-half-meltdown

    There was a segment on NFL Network last week regarding Wilson not taking the plays that are there, but I can not find the video right now.



    You said there are a lot of people in the media. You posted two links.

    Chris Simms, John Gilbert, and others have placed more blame on the scheme, than Wilson. I also think it’s funny you posted a video by Samuel Gold, and not his follow up video criticizing the Air Coryell offense and why it dictates Wilson’s reads. So basically, you’re claiming to be an objective person but you’re unwilling to weigh both sides of the debate.
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:49 pm
  • Scorpion05 wrote:You said there are a lot of people in the media. You posted two links.

    Chris Simms, John Gilbert, and others have placed more blame on the scheme, than Wilson. I also think it’s funny you posted a video by Samuel Gold, and not his follow up video criticizing the Air Coryell offense and why it dictates Wilson’s reads. So basically, you’re claiming to be an objective person but you’re unwilling to weigh both sides of the debate.


    How exactly have I not weighed both sides of the debate? From what I have seen, there is no debate on this board now. There are several posters that only post about Pete being the one at fault and do not post anything else.

    There are several posters here who do nothing but defend Wilson from any criticism whatsoever.

    It seems as though there are only four or five posters here that actually look at the All-22 and point out things you can not see on the broadcasts.

    In other threads, I have agreed with the fact that Pete has absolutely tried to cut down on the mistakes that have been made by Wilson. His interceptions cost us home field advantage. I have no problem stating that Pete tried to pull Wilson back from costing the team games. Anyone who has a question about that, does not pay attention.

    I have never claimed to be an objective person. I have never claimed to be anything. I have only pointed out with video evidence that Wilson was not throwing to open receivers in the second half of the season. That has gotten me a few immature responses to say the least.

    In regards to links, I can't post videos from Top Billin' on the main forum due to language, but he has done film on Wilson not throwing to open receivers.

    Here is Rodney Harrison's take:
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:17 pm
  • BASF wrote:
    Scorpion05 wrote:You said there are a lot of people in the media. You posted two links.

    Chris Simms, John Gilbert, and others have placed more blame on the scheme, than Wilson. I also think it’s funny you posted a video by Samuel Gold, and not his follow up video criticizing the Air Coryell offense and why it dictates Wilson’s reads. So basically, you’re claiming to be an objective person but you’re unwilling to weigh both sides of the debate.


    How exactly have I not weighed both sides of the debate? From what I have seen, there is no debate on this board now. There are several posters that only post about Pete being the one at fault and do not post anything else.

    There are several posters here who do nothing but defend Wilson from any criticism whatsoever.

    It seems as though there are only four or five posters here that actually look at the All-22 and point out things you can not see on the broadcasts.

    In other threads, I have agreed with the fact that Pete has absolutely tried to cut down on the mistakes that have been made by Wilson. His interceptions cost us home field advantage. I have no problem stating that Pete tried to pull Wilson back from costing the team games. Anyone who has a question about that, does not pay attention.

    I have never claimed to be an objective person. I have never claimed to be anything. I have only pointed out with video evidence that Wilson was not throwing to open receivers in the second half of the season. That has gotten me a few immature responses to say the least.

    In regards to links, I can't post videos from Top Billin' on the main forum due to language, but he has done film on Wilson not throwing to open receivers.

    Here is Rodney Harrison's take:



    Okay since you claim Wilson never throws to open Wrs or not enough., Please show me how every QB out there always hits the Wide open wr. Also, again we need to know the down and distance, the progression, and if there is a throwing window. Without that your posts as well as these so called experts mean nothing, and again for every one you show saying he does not throw people open or misses wide open Wrs there are 5 saying the opposite. Everyone has an opinion for these so-called experts its about clicks so whatever they think will get the clicks is what the posted even if it's not true. Also it is impossible for a Qb to have the numbers he has year in and year out missing wr all the time, or even most of the time,e not throwing people open etc etc. the FACTS just don't support the claim. FYI I can show and in fact in some of your so caller evidence Wilson throwing to wide open guy. The problem again is you do not show the progression, when they got open, down ad distance etc. Example in one of your videos there is someone open, at about 5 yards with 2 defenders with in 3 yards, its 3rd and 15 so throwing to that person does nothing, we are bottom 3 in YAC. so throwing to 5 yards when you need 15 would eb a bad throw. Huard did a bit on KJR where he said that very often fans are seeing people open, but they are open after Wilson has had to move on in the progression.

    So again I am glad you show all these pictures and videos of wide open guys. However, again without down, distance, progression, throwing windows it means nothing.

    Did you watch the Green Bay Tampa game? I did I watched both Rodgers and Brady miss wide open guys. They were even asked after about a few and the answer they were not open when I looked that them. amazing isn't it how progression matters. You have 2.5 seconds or less to look at 4+ receivers, if they are not open when you look at them you move on, if they are not at the right distance for the down you move on, if there is no throwing lane you move on. That's how the position is played.

    Now that said do I think sometimes he looks past an open person looking for more...yes, but unlike you I know all QBs do that just look at the Gb and TB playoff game.


    You see the problem you and others have is you place an unbelievable bar on Wilson, once that no QB in the league can meet, and even when he does you come up with some BS excuse why he did not. the only differenc eis at least you admit your are biased.
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:52 pm
  • remember when Carroll & Metcalf went shirtless together ? I can't unsee that .
    xray
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:07 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:When Carroll leaves, it is going to be a dark day here.

    There is a distinct difference between being frustrated with Carroll when he repeatedly fails to take advantage of opportunities available with the resources he has....and simply not being happy with him or wanting him gone.

    Wilson will be gone before Carroll is. And if, for whatever reason, Carroll calls it quits beforehand?

    The chances we upgrade from Carroll are low. And the chances this team is better once he leaves become low too.

    Metcalf is in for a rough ride, because this is not the best place for a WR. Carroll simply won't maximize the ability there.

    And Wilson is always going to produce less than he could under a great offense.

    But this is it. This is the ceiling. So hoping to hasten Carroll's departure is crazy.

    He is old. His best days are behind him. And he is a net negative on gameday. But his ability to fill gaps in the roster simply cannot be overstated. Few coaches could make this roster work.


    Yep. The Packers really went down hill when they moved on from their Super Bowl winning Head Coach Mike McCarthy.

    It will be a dark day when Wilson is no longer here. The QB is the most valuable player in sports. Pete was a flop in the NFL until Wilson showed up.

    BB missed the playoffs, while Brady is going back to the Super Bowl.
    Fade
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:52 pm
  • Fade wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:When Carroll leaves, it is going to be a dark day here.

    There is a distinct difference between being frustrated with Carroll when he repeatedly fails to take advantage of opportunities available with the resources he has....and simply not being happy with him or wanting him gone.

    Wilson will be gone before Carroll is. And if, for whatever reason, Carroll calls it quits beforehand?

    The chances we upgrade from Carroll are low. And the chances this team is better once he leaves become low too.

    Metcalf is in for a rough ride, because this is not the best place for a WR. Carroll simply won't maximize the ability there.

    And Wilson is always going to produce less than he could under a great offense.

    But this is it. This is the ceiling. So hoping to hasten Carroll's departure is crazy.

    He is old. His best days are behind him. And he is a net negative on gameday. But his ability to fill gaps in the roster simply cannot be overstated. Few coaches could make this roster work.


    Yep. The Packers really went down hill when they moved on from their Super Bowl winning Head Coach Mike McCarthy.

    It will be a dark day when Wilson is no longer here. The QB is the most valuable player in sports. Pete was a flop in the NFL until Wilson showed up.

    BB missed the playoffs, while Brady is going back to the Super Bowl.



    When it comes down to it a HOF/Franchise QB is more important than a HC.
    John63
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:01 pm
  • Fade wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:When Carroll leaves, it is going to be a dark day here.

    There is a distinct difference between being frustrated with Carroll when he repeatedly fails to take advantage of opportunities available with the resources he has....and simply not being happy with him or wanting him gone.

    Wilson will be gone before Carroll is. And if, for whatever reason, Carroll calls it quits beforehand?

    The chances we upgrade from Carroll are low. And the chances this team is better once he leaves become low too.

    Metcalf is in for a rough ride, because this is not the best place for a WR. Carroll simply won't maximize the ability there.

    And Wilson is always going to produce less than he could under a great offense.

    But this is it. This is the ceiling. So hoping to hasten Carroll's departure is crazy.

    He is old. His best days are behind him. And he is a net negative on gameday. But his ability to fill gaps in the roster simply cannot be overstated. Few coaches could make this roster work.


    Yep. The Packers really went down hill when they moved on from their Super Bowl winning Head Coach Mike McCarthy.

    It will be a dark day when Wilson is no longer here. The QB is the most valuable player in sports. Pete was a flop in the NFL until Wilson showed up.

    BB missed the playoffs, while Brady is going back to the Super Bowl.


    Let's not get disingenuous here with the shoddy comparisons. McCarthy was fired in the middle of his second straight losing season, not after 3 straight playoff appearances at 10-6, 11-5, and 12-4. TwistedHusky is no Carroll fanatic, and their post isn't justifying Carroll's employment with a Super Bowl win 7 years ago. It's simply stating that the team is quite likely to be worse if Carroll is fired, not better... which, historically, is a pretty solid assumption. Not sure how McCarthy bears any relevance to the topic, very different situations.
    Maelstrom787
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Mon Feb 01, 2021 4:16 pm
  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:When Carroll leaves, it is going to be a dark day here.

    There is a distinct difference between being frustrated with Carroll when he repeatedly fails to take advantage of opportunities available with the resources he has....and simply not being happy with him or wanting him gone.

    Wilson will be gone before Carroll is. And if, for whatever reason, Carroll calls it quits beforehand?

    The chances we upgrade from Carroll are low. And the chances this team is better once he leaves become low too.

    Metcalf is in for a rough ride, because this is not the best place for a WR. Carroll simply won't maximize the ability there.

    And Wilson is always going to produce less than he could under a great offense.

    But this is it. This is the ceiling. So hoping to hasten Carroll's departure is crazy.

    He is old. His best days are behind him. And he is a net negative on gameday. But his ability to fill gaps in the roster simply cannot be overstated. Few coaches could make this roster work.


    Yep. The Packers really went down hill when they moved on from their Super Bowl winning Head Coach Mike McCarthy.

    It will be a dark day when Wilson is no longer here. The QB is the most valuable player in sports. Pete was a flop in the NFL until Wilson showed up.

    BB missed the playoffs, while Brady is going back to the Super Bowl.


    Let's not get disingenuous here with the shoddy comparisons. McCarthy was fired in the middle of his second straight losing season, not after 3 straight playoff appearances at 10-6, 11-5, and 12-4. TwistedHusky is no Carroll fanatic, and their post isn't justifying Carroll's employment with a Super Bowl win 7 years ago. It's simply stating that the team is quite likely to be worse if Carroll is fired, not better... which, historically, is a pretty solid assumption. Not sure how McCarthy bears any relevance to the topic, very different situations.



    The way it was written implies its PC leaving that will cause the dark day, not that it was a dark day that caused him leaving.
    John63
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:09 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:When Carroll leaves, it is going to be a dark day here.

    There is a distinct difference between being frustrated with Carroll when he repeatedly fails to take advantage of opportunities available with the resources he has....and simply not being happy with him or wanting him gone.

    Wilson will be gone before Carroll is. And if, for whatever reason, Carroll calls it quits beforehand?

    The chances we upgrade from Carroll are low. And the chances this team is better once he leaves become low too.

    Metcalf is in for a rough ride, because this is not the best place for a WR. Carroll simply won't maximize the ability there.

    And Wilson is always going to produce less than he could under a great offense.

    But this is it. This is the ceiling. So hoping to hasten Carroll's departure is crazy.

    He is old. His best days are behind him. And he is a net negative on gameday. But his ability to fill gaps in the roster simply cannot be overstated. Few coaches could make this roster work.


    Yep. The Packers really went down hill when they moved on from their Super Bowl winning Head Coach Mike McCarthy.

    It will be a dark day when Wilson is no longer here. The QB is the most valuable player in sports. Pete was a flop in the NFL until Wilson showed up.

    BB missed the playoffs, while Brady is going back to the Super Bowl.


    Let's not get disingenuous here with the shoddy comparisons. McCarthy was fired in the middle of his second straight losing season, not after 3 straight playoff appearances at 10-6, 11-5, and 12-4. TwistedHusky is no Carroll fanatic, and their post isn't justifying Carroll's employment with a Super Bowl win 7 years ago. It's simply stating that the team is quite likely to be worse if Carroll is fired, not better... which, historically, is a pretty solid assumption. Not sure how McCarthy bears any relevance to the topic, very different situations.



    The way it was written implies its PC leaving that will cause the dark day, not that it was a dark day that caused him leaving.


    Point is, nothing resembling said dark day has come yet. This isn't a McCarthy situation.
    Maelstrom787
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:03 pm
  • Maelstrom787 wrote:Point is, nothing resembling said dark day has come yet. This isn't a McCarthy situation.


    The point is losing a HC is not what leads to a team's demise. It is the franchise QB, or lack of a replacement when losing said Franchise QB. You and your strawmen. :2thumbs:

    The Packers and 49ers avoided it because they had Rodgers and Young as backups, they changed head coaches, they still continued their winning ways and won Superbowls without Walsh and Holmgren. Franchise QB > Head Coach. The end.
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:08 pm
  • So DK said what a lot of us on here have been saying for years. Teams figured the schemes out, and the coaching staff were incapable of making adjustments. Sounds about right...
    hawker84
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:10 pm
  • hawker84 wrote:So DK said what a lot of us on here have been saying for years. Teams figured the schemes out, and the coaching staff were incapable of making adjustments. Sounds about right...


    Back to back years the same thing happened. They started out hot, teams got film, and they proceeded to go in the tank.
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:52 pm
  • Fade wrote:
    hawker84 wrote:So DK said what a lot of us on here have been saying for years. Teams figured the schemes out, and the coaching staff were incapable of making adjustments. Sounds about right...


    Back to back years the same thing happened. They started out hot, teams got film, and they proceeded to go in the tank.



    Bingo another Key Shotty saying 80% of the play book form th3e year before he got here would stay the same. ahh 80% of the play book the same as the year before. Yeah no way another team would not be able to figure us out. :sarcasm_off:
    John63
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:36 pm
  • The adjustment was to scheme the short middle but the QB won’t take that. This all over the film, and disproves the laughable tropes that Pete won’t allow MOF passes or that schotty didn’t adjust or called all go routes.

    It might be possible for an OC to give Russell a look vs zone under that he will pull the trigger on but since height is part of the issue I predict success, if it comes at all, would be fleeting. Russ has good reason not to trust those short passes v zone: he sucks at them. He had an entire series against the rams where he tried it and WRs were open and almost every play could have been a pick. He’s also been baited with sim pressure earlier in the year to throwing a pick to an MLB so that exacerbates the hesitancy. Sim pressure in general can get any QB but pre snap diagnosis is not very strong for a guy who reportedly works so hard at film. Blitzing corners may as well be cloaked in invisibility for all the attention Wilson pays them.

    The truth is Pete is quite right to favor play action shots and running. That’s where Russ is elite. Trying to make Russ the 40 drop back passer is where we fall down. He can’t be that passer because he can’t use a third of the field consistently. He doesn’t hit his back foot and let fly and rack up those easy completions like Tom Brady does (and has done across multiple OCs and multiple teams. Don’t tell me Bruce arians is some offensive savant).
    hawk45
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:22 pm
  • hawk45 wrote:The adjustment was to scheme the short middle but the QB won’t take that. This all over the film, and disproves the laughable tropes that Pete won’t allow MOF passes or that schotty didn’t adjust or called all go routes.

    It might be possible for an OC to give Russell a look vs zone under that he will pull the trigger on but since height is part of the issue I predict success, if it comes at all, would be fleeting. Russ has good reason not to trust those short passes v zone: he sucks at them. He had an entire series against the rams where he tried it and WRs were open and almost every play could have been a pick. He’s also been baited with sim pressure earlier in the year to throwing a pick to an MLB so that exacerbates the hesitancy. Sim pressure in general can get any QB but pre snap diagnosis is not very strong for a guy who reportedly works so hard at film. Blitzing corners may as well be cloaked in invisibility for all the attention Wilson pays them.

    The truth is Pete is quite right to favor play action shots and running. That’s where Russ is elite. Trying to make Russ the 40 drop back passer is where we fall down. He can’t be that passer because he can’t use a third of the field consistently. He doesn’t hit his back foot and let fly and rack up those easy completions like Tom Brady does (and has done across multiple OCs and multiple teams. Don’t tell me Bruce arians is some offensive savant).



    No prove all these recievers open short in the middle were open, were open at their turn in the progression, they were open at the needed distance and that their was a throwing window. Till you do you point does not mean other than unthibk a receiver open when you look means they were open when the needed to be. Alos 1/3 of the field? Let's see short left, short right, short middle, mud left mid right, mid middle, long left, long right, long middle. Thats 9 parts not counting throwing behind the los. Also again 4 of his ints were short middle passes that went off recievers hands somewhat makes ur point wrong.
    John63
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:59 am
  • Or.....they could actually ADJUST when the defense takes away what has been working.
    Imagine that, adjusting in game.
    SoulfishHawk
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:54 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Or.....they could actually ADJUST when the defense takes away what has been working.
    Imagine that, adjusting in game.



    Not in the PC playbook.
    John63
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Tue Feb 09, 2021 7:55 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Or.....they could actually ADJUST when the defense takes away what has been working.
    Imagine that, adjusting in game.



    Not in the PC playbook.
    John63
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:49 am
  • DK can mouth off when he stops dropping easy passes that Russ puts right on his hands. He needs to work on getting his fundamentals right, and quit running up into the stands and grabbing the TV camera. Bottom line is DK's not in the place where he can sit in judgment.
    Tusc2000
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Re: Metcalf Calls Out Carroll
Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:11 am
  • If RW leaves the Seahawks, I don't believe DK or Tyler will want to stay with Seahawks either. So the Seahawks could potentially lose their #1 and #2 WRs in addition to their top QB.
    hawkfan68
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