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How many o-lineman to fix

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How many o-lineman to fix
Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:24 pm
  • Seriously, how many Lineman do we need to make Russ happy? Realistically how many do we need and who is even out there could we go after and afford? I don’t think we can fix quick enough. This is a Russ/Pete philosophy issue more than an Oline issue
    zchurch74
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Re: How many o-lineman to fix
Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:07 pm
  • This year, I don't know. But to contextualize Russ's frustration:

    The Hawks could have signed Jack Conklin last year (cap hit was around $13m). Easily one of the best right tackles.
    Instead, they used similar space to sign B.J. Finney (1.5m), Greg Olsen (7m), Brandon Shell (3.5m), Jacob Hollister (3.2 m), and Philip Dorset (1m).

    The situation is more complicated, of course, since Conklin got three years I think about about 30m guaranteed.

    Nonetheless, there are lots of examples of things like this where the 'Hawks d*ck around and sign a bunch of JAG's instead of improving the team by snagging top-flight dudes that represent certain upgrades at positions of need.
    nanomoz
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Re: How many o-lineman to fix
Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:14 am
  • We need interior help. Duane Brown graded out well above average. Shell played above average as well when he was healthy. Damien Lewis garrnered recognition across the league as one of the best RG this year at run blocking whether at RG or C. But his pass blocking needs to improve. Our weak spots are at LG and Center. Pocic surprised with his ability to slot in at center but wasnt all that effective over the course of the season. Iupati - that dude just cant stay on the field.

    So we need a solid LG and C. We also probably need to start looking at D Brown's eventual replacement. If Brown can keep up his level of play, Shell can stay healthy and improve, Lewis can build off a really solid rookie campaign, 3/5ths of the line will be in really good shape.

    We are in much better shape than a good bit of the league. But we cant go into 2121 with a line that caves in the middle at pass pro and cant keep key pieces on the field.
    Last edited by keasley45 on Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    keasley45
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Re: How many o-lineman to fix
Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:37 am
  • The longer Russell holds the ball,the worse the O line looks obviously,and he held the ball way too long most of the time.
    beaumaris
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Re: How many o-lineman to fix
Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:09 am
  • beaumaris wrote:The longer Russell holds the ball,the worse the O line looks obviously,and he held the ball way too long most of the time.


    Absolutely agree that that is part of the problem and one that some choose to overlook. But to the OP question, there are certainly issues along the line that are contributing to him at times, not being able to get the ball out on time.
    keasley45
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Re: How many o-lineman to fix
Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:49 am
  • nanomoz wrote:The Hawks could have signed Jack Conklin last year (cap hit was around $13m). Easily one of the best right tackles. Instead, they used similar space to sign B.J. Finney (1.5m), Greg Olsen (7m), Brandon Shell (3.5m), Jacob Hollister (3.2 m), and Philip Dorset (1m).

    I don't know that this is the best example to use. Shell was surprisingly well above average last year, and a complete steal at $3.4m. He's a big reason why the line as a whole was ranked #14 overall by PFF and 16th in PBWR which were both big jumps over 2019. Meanwhile Conklin played well, but only up to the level of the top 3 RT contract that he signed. Shell's contract was relatively more valuable IMO.

    The quality over quantity argument is attractive on paper but the underlying truth is that scarcity exists under the fixed NFL salary cap and we can't have everything we'd like. It's easy to pick specific players who do not work out, but the real goal in roster building is to bolster competition and depth.

    If you sign a Matt Flynn and then he gets beat out by your third round rookie QB that's actually a good thing. Similarly, Finney was part of an overall strategy in moving on from Britt which appeared successful this season. Would it actually have been better if he had won the job over Pocic? That would have just made our drafting look worse in comparison.

    The TE room did end up disappointing this season. It can always get worse, and it would have been much worse without Olsen and Hollister. However, in my view the TEs were not well utilized by the offense as a whole. Whether you blame Schotty or Russ for that I don't think it's fair to pin it just on the TE room themselves.
    AgentDib
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Re: How many o-lineman to fix
Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:04 pm
  • zchurch74 wrote:Seriously, how many Lineman do we need to make Russ happy? Realistically how many do we need and who is even out there could we go after and afford? I don’t think we can fix quick enough. This is a Russ/Pete philosophy issue more than an Oline issue


    No this is a PC issue. WIlsoon ha sbeen sayign this for years, This problam has existed since evenb beofre Wilson got here.

    Sacks given up by Seahawks oline since PC got here

    2010 42
    2011 50
    2012 33 Wilson first year
    2013 44
    2014 42
    2015 45
    2016 41
    2017 43
    2018 51
    2019 48
    2020 47

    Adn thats just sacks imagine if we added hits, pressures, and hurries

    Another example this si form 2019

    "ESPN’s Pass Block Win Rate (PBWR) measures how often a line holds up for 2.5 seconds, the Seahawks currently rank 28th with a PBWR of 51%."

    https://www.hawkblogger.com/2019/12/a-statistical-view-of-the-seahawks-offensive-downturn.html
    John63
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Re: How many o-lineman to fix
Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:06 pm
  • beaumaris wrote:The longer Russell holds the ball,the worse the O line looks obviously,and he held the ball way too long most of the time.



    Non-one disagrees he holds the ball at times. Why that is another issue, it is not always him just doing it.


    That said he was still the most sacked, hit, hurried and pressured QB in under 2.5 seconds. That is not good as an avg line should be able to hold for 2.5 seconds.
    John63
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Re: How many o-lineman to fix
Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:22 pm
  • 3 or 4 positions on the OL need upgrades asap . Every team is hunting for good OL players so good luck to the Hawks .
    Better have a lot of $$ to spend too .
    xray
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Re: How many o-lineman to fix
Wed Feb 10, 2021 9:16 pm
  • Lots of negativity here. The sky is falling, or perhaps not.

    Answer to the question is two, LG and C. There are 3-4 solid C’s in the draft available when the team picks but an experienced guy would be better. Britt is still out there and healthy again, perhaps reality has paid him a visit with him not being signed elsewhere. To me he’d be a great add back.

    There are also quite a few solid OGs available in the draft as well, and numerous OT prospects as well. Maybe the team will guess right like they did with Lewis last year. There are some proven experienced players at both C & G as well that could be picked up for big money in FA too.

    Maybe the team will get their act together with the OLine this season and find the interior OLine guys who finally will win the inside battle and be more than run blockers.
    jammerhawk
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