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Fun Fact: 10 of Wilson's final 11 games had *worse* protect

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  • Mahomes would've died in the 2020 Seahawks offense.

    It makes a lot of sense as to why Wilson would like to see upgrades to the O-Line. If the eyeball test wasn't enough already. LG & Center left a lot to be desired the whole season. RT was good until Shell got hurt. Duane Brown had his best season at LT with the Seahawks, but he will be 36. Lewis at RG is very promising, but he still sucked in pass pro.

    Wilson's getting older. Protect him. Sign Corey Linsley, and find a way to come out of this upcoming draft with one of the better LG prospects. Thank you.
    Fade
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  • Nah, we don't do facts here. ALL of it is Russ' fault :?
    It's not that the Hawks haven't added O Lineman. It's WHO they have added. So many swing and misses.
    SoulfishHawk
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  • Fade wrote:

    Mahomes would've died in the 2020 Seahawks offense.

    It makes a lot of sense as to why Wilson would like to see upgrades to the O-Line. If the eyeball test wasn't enough already. LG & Center left a lot to be desired the whole season. RT was good until Shell got hurt. Duane Brown had his best season at LT with the Seahawks, but he will be 36. Lewis at RG is very promising, but he still sucked in pass pro.

    Wilson's getting older. Protect him. Sign Corey Linsley, and find a way to come out of this upcoming draft with one of the better LG prospects. Thank you.


    Everyone Pete Caroll included wants a better OL it just not that easy. I'm sure if Russ is willing to part with DK then we trade for a good linemen.

    Part of the problem is scheme, part OL and also part Russell Wilson.
    getnasty
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  • Plenty of factors. O Line, play calling, Russ getting neutered, no adjustments etc.
    And yes, he has to play better for this team to go deep in the playoffs. But so does the rest of the team.
    Other players have made comments (current and former) why is it ok for them? Just curious.
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  • and looking at that chart if average is 57.4 then Seattle was above average in 10 of 17 games this year? With 3 of those 7 agaisnt the best defense and best defensive lineman in the league.

    Doesn't seem like Russ has much to complian about from this graphic.
    getnasty
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  • When you get sacked almost 400 times, you have plenty to complain about.
    When the play calling is a pathetic joke much of the time, you have plenty to complain about.
    When your coach refuses to adjust in game, let alone in the playoffs, you have plenty to complain about.
    SoulfishHawk
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  • Another fun fact according to PFF - Russ was responsible for over 25% of those sacks.

    hoxrox
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  • hoxrox wrote:Another fun fact according to PFF - Russ was responsible for over 25% of those sacks.



    Not talking about that.

    Talking about passblocking grades for the Seahawks O-Lineman.
    Fade
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  • Fade wrote:
    hoxrox wrote:Another fun fact according to PFF - Russ was responsible for over 25% of those sacks.



    Not talking about that.

    Talking about passblocking grades for the Seahawks O-Lineman.



    Was responding to the post above mine, but you're absolutely right. The FO needs to prioritize o-line this off season. Iupati and Pocic were serviceable at the beginning of the season until they got hurt.
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  • Addedd ESPN paidsite said over his career to at Wilson's mobility has saved 203 sacks as well.
    John63
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  • What I love about all of this, is that Russ no longer cares. He doesn't care if people don't appreciate him, don't respect him. He's taking what is his and if you don't like him, trade him. I love his mindset
    Scorpion05
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:When you get sacked almost 400 times, you have plenty to complain about.
    When the play calling is a pathetic joke much of the time, you have plenty to complain about.
    When your coach refuses to adjust in game, let alone in the playoffs, you have plenty to complain about.

    This!
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  • Fun fact: A 67% Pass Block Win Rate over a full season would have been the third best mark in the league. Pretty heinous omission of context there from the supposedly objective Baldwin.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Nah, we don't do facts here. ALL of it is Russ' fault :?
    It's not that the Hawks haven't added O Lineman. It's WHO they have added. So many swing and misses.



    Soulman, I can't understand why this ALL wouldn't be Pete's fault (J/K). In part though there isa ring of truth about that, but as we both know the blame is spread around inefficient running game = less respect for play action, slow developing pass routes = 2 high S coverage as the running game is disrespected as unable to accomplish chunk results. Predictability of the schemes, not many innovative short routes, RW holding onto the ball too long also leads to similar results.

    The OLine is and has been noticeably weak at C & LG without a doubt. These 2 positions are critically important priorities.

    At last though it has become clear as to what area of the team needs the most help.
    jammerhawk
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  • It's a combo of things. But the guys they have added just haven't panned out for the most part.
    And absolutely, Russ has to get rid of the ball faster. That's not exactly his game, but he's certainly capable. I'm hoping, key word being hoping, that the new OC adds a lot more of the short game to this offense.
    Couldn't agree more on C and LG. Extremely important to get these positions improved.

    Again, Peyton Manning called out his o line in a post game presser, seems like nobody really cared much.
    Russ, for the first time really, says something and people just lose their minds.
    Just seems odd to me, that's all.
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  • Maybe Russ will renegotiate to help buy his own bodyguards?
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:Fun fact: A 67% Pass Block Win Rate over a full season would have been the third best mark in the league. Pretty heinous omission of context there from the supposedly objective Baldwin.



    I think his point is, Wilson regularly deals with pressure that we have normalized.

    For every sack people blame Wilson for, how many has he avoided?

    If you add Sacks caused by Russ minus Sacks avoided by Russ + O-line protection issues, you still get a pretty bad result.
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  • Scorpion05 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:Fun fact: A 67% Pass Block Win Rate over a full season would have been the third best mark in the league. Pretty heinous omission of context there from the supposedly objective Baldwin.



    I think his point is, Wilson regularly deals with pressure that we have normalized.

    For every sack people blame Wilson for, how many has he avoided?

    If you add Sacks caused by Russ minus Sacks avoided by Russ + O-line protection issues, you still get a pretty bad result.



    Bingo
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  • Scorpion05 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:Fun fact: A 67% Pass Block Win Rate over a full season would have been the third best mark in the league. Pretty heinous omission of context there from the supposedly objective Baldwin.



    I think his point is, Wilson regularly deals with pressure that we have normalized.

    For every sack people blame Wilson for, how many has he avoided?

    If you add Sacks caused by Russ minus Sacks avoided by Russ + O-line protection issues, you still get a pretty bad result.


    Very good point. I am guilty of yelling at the tv and being so frustrated when he takes a sack where he could have thrown it away. Then in a calmer more rational moment I think of how many times has him doing that led to something great.
    HawkRiderFan
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  • getnasty wrote:and looking at that chart if average is 57.4 then Seattle was above average in 10 of 17 games this year? With 3 of those 7 agaisnt the best defense and best defensive lineman in the league.

    Doesn't seem like Russ has much to complian about from this graphic.

    Don’t let reality get in the way of group think.

    Ben Baldwin likes to pretend that the math is on his side, but apparently he can’t read a graph. Perhaps it’s because he got his PhD in a social science? Who knows...
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  • Scorpion05 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:Fun fact: A 67% Pass Block Win Rate over a full season would have been the third best mark in the league. Pretty heinous omission of context there from the supposedly objective Baldwin.



    I think his point is, Wilson regularly deals with pressure that we have normalized.

    For every sack people blame Wilson for, how many has he avoided?

    If you add Sacks caused by Russ minus Sacks avoided by Russ + O-line protection issues, you still get a pretty bad result.


    I don't really care about the overall point. I'm not arguing against improving the line, in fact I agree that it should be a priority. I'm saying that manipulating statistics to draw a conclusion that the stats in no way lead to is bad. Baldwin did that by phrasing a 67% PBWR as bad (it's not), and then switching to "ranking" in the next tweet without elaborating that he was talking about entirely different rankings... likely PFF rankings. It's plainly dishonest.

    The graph shows the predominant issue with the line quite clearly, in my opinion: inconsistency. They played like one of the best and one of the worst lines depending on game, and we never really knew which would show up. I'm of the opinion that this likely points more to scheme/coaching rather than talent, and regardless of acquisitions, I think the line is going to look better in Waldron's scheme. The previous scheme was highly difficult for an offensive lineman.

    If it were as easy as acquiring a new left guard or a new center, it would've been fixed by now.
    Last edited by Maelstrom787 on Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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  • According to John Clayton, the O-line was ranked 9th with success rate on passing downs. :?:

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  • hoxrox wrote:According to John Clayton, the O-line was ranked 9th with success rate on passing downs. :?:




    Footballoutsders has them ranked 30th in pass blocking so it depends on whose number you use.

    Most use only sacks as their reference number, however you also need to worry about hits, hurries, and pressures.

    I have seen as low as 16th never 9th. I have seen for the first 5 games 9th, but not for the whole season.


    Since PC has been here this is how the sacks line up

    Sacks given up by Seahawks oline since PC got here

    2010 42
    2011 50
    2012 33 Wilson first year
    2013 44
    2014 42
    2015 45
    2016 41
    2017 43
    2018 51
    2019 48
    2020 47

    Seasons with offensive line in the top half of the league in pass block grade:

    Patrick Mahomes: 3 of 3
    Aaron Rodgers: 12 of 13
    Russell Wilson: 0 of 9


    Someone posted his oline rankings for while he has been here. I cant find it but Footballoutsiders has this, keep in mind they take into account sacks that are a result of the QB.

    2020 - 30th
    2019 - 24th
    2018 - 30th
    2017 - 25th
    2016 - 25th
    2015 - 31st
    2014 - 24th
    1013 - 32nd
    2012 - 20th

    So best 20th avg 27th
    John63
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:Fun fact: A 67% Pass Block Win Rate over a full season would have been the third best mark in the league. Pretty heinous omission of context there from the supposedly objective Baldwin.


    It just goes to show the level of protection Mahomes needs to be elite.

    I am getting a kick out of people actually watching another franchise QB for a change, and realizing that they do not walk on water. You have to actually support them, give them a good scheme, build a proper offensive line, give them weapons.

    Y'know what the Seahawks have done a piss poor job at for most of Wilson's career. Yet, Wilson has better numbers than all of them. Save for Mahomes last 3 seasons, but it's still close between the 2.

    Good for Wilson to callout PCJS, and demand better. It shows Wilson actually cares, he isn't cool with just collecting his money, putting on a fake smile and going off quietly into the night with 1 SuperBowl. He wants to win. The Seahawks should do whatever they can to support Wilson on his endeavor. Lord knows, Pete's one and done way has failed spectacularly over the last 5 years.
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  • If Russ wants better protection, he could free up some cap room off his salary for starters.
    Seahwkgal
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  • Seahwkgal wrote:If Russ wants better protection, he could free up some cap room off his salary for starters.


    That won't happen. He needs that money to buy the Seahawks one day. After all, it's about his legacy.
    hoxrox
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