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When does Pete's seat start getting hot?

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When does Pete's seat start getting hot?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:21 am
  • I'm curious. Jody Allen seems to have taken a really passive ownership role in the team. What would it take for Carroll to get fired?

    Pete Carroll has bought a lot of goodwill with the ownership and the city of Seattle with his early success. That being said, since those Super Bowl runs all has not been right in paradise. Realistically he should have only two wins in the playoffs since 2015. Those wins were against a Matt Stafford playing on a sprained ankle, with a messed up throwing hand and a 40 year old McCown that was playing injured at the end of the game. Even still he was giving the Seahawks a run for their money. We have no quality wins since that time period.

    Within the same time period Shanahan, McCarthy, Pederson, Arians, Belichick, McVay, LaFleur, Payton, Reid, Tomlin, Kubiak, Quinn, Ron Rivera, Vrabel, and Marrone all have better win percentages in the playoffs and just as many wins as Pete Carroll since 2020. Carroll is building a reputation as a guy that cannot get it done in the playoffs any longer. The fact that we really only have three wins (really should be two) within the span of 6 years with one of the better QB's in the league is alarming. Especially considering that many of these guys are jokes. 15 coaches, or close to half the league has fared better in the playoffs within the last 6 years. Within this time the Seahawks held teams were ranked number one by PFF's DVOA standards. We're under performing out talent levels in the post season.

    In 2017 Carroll lost control of the team. He had to offload a lot of our star players, or just let them go. He purged the coaching staff and rebooted. In just 3 years we're back at the same place we were then. Players such as DK Metcalf, and Wilson questioning the offense, Wilson potentially trying to get out of Seattle if changes aren't made. According to Cowherd he knows of one more player that is questioning Seattle's offense, and Carroll's direction there.

    Question being, what is the breaking point for Jody Allen and Seahawks management? Does it have to be a 4 win season, or does Wilson forcing his way out of Seattle, or another loss in the playoffs right away seal his fate? What is the threshold here.
    Spin Doctor
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  • To me, Carroll has become our Mike McCarthy during his last few season in GB. Good enough to get to the playoffs, just not good enough to go all the way. That being said, even McCarthy was able to coach his team to the NFCCG.

    What I would like to see:

    - Give Carroll a choice. Drop head coach duties and remain as President of Football Operations or you are fired from both
    - Hire Bieniemy (if he'd take the job). He's a good offensive mind for Russ and the Seahawks could use those extra 3rd-round picks
    - Approach Russ to restructure his contract. Not extend, just restructure to open up cap room
    - Extend and restructure Reed to lower 2021 cap hit
    - Extend and restructure Dunlop with a friendly 2021 cap hit
    - Extend and restructure Adams on a 3-year deal with ~$7M cap hit in 2021
    - Approach Griffin to gauge how much he wants per season. If it's $10M+, let him walk
    - Approach Sherman to gauge interest
    - Bring back Irvin on a $3M-$4M deal
    - Appeal to Wright to come back on a similar two-year deal w/ a team option for 2022
    - Bring in one stud OL (Erving, Linsley, etc. Not Scherff or Thuney...they will be too expensive)
    - Bring in several other reasonably priced OL and make them compete for positions
    - RB. I'd love to kick the wheels on Fournette, but he's probably priced himself out of the budget w/ his playoff run. Looking at OTC.com, there are several good RBs that are FAs

    The DL looked much better once Dunlop arrived. I'm not convinced it's a glaring weakness right now. If they could go out and grab an situational impact player at a reasonable price, great. Same with the secondary. The defense started to gel down the stretch and there are many young good players already on the roster

    Other needs:
    TE
    DB (If Griffin walks)

    Draft Strategy: Draft the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE AT EVERY PICK. Period.
    TOPHawk
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  • It doesn't. Pete will be here as long as he would like. He basically runs the organization at this point; Allen doesn't care. Pete is winning games and was loyal to Paul. That's all that matters to her.
    Welshers
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  • Welshers wrote:It doesn't. Pete will be here as long as he would like. He basically runs the organization at this point; Allen doesn't care. Pete is winning games and was loyal to Paul. That's all that matters to her.

    I’m afraid this is exactly it.

    Jody Allen doesn’t care.

    As long as Carroll is here, I believe that’s “good enough” her.

    I believe she by nature operates with, “But that’s, Pete Carroll.” And Carroll can do no wrong by her.

    If anything, the only thing that can change her thinking with keeping Carroll, is Wilson publicly stating he will no longer play for the Seahawks if Carroll remains head coach.

    Which will probably not happen..

    Jody Allen is a very hands off person, and let the situation play out with Carroll running the organization.

    Why else would she extend him? She don’t care about winning football games.
    TheLegendOfBoom
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  • TOPHawk wrote:To me, Carroll has become our Mike McCarthy during his last few season in GB. Good enough to get to the playoffs, just not good enough to go all the way. That being said, even McCarthy was able to coach his team to the NFCCG.

    What I would like to see:

    - Give Carroll a choice. Drop head coach duties and remain as President of Football Operations or you are fired from both
    - Hire Bieniemy (if he'd take the job). He's a good offensive mind for Russ and the Seahawks could use those extra 3rd-round picks
    - Approach Russ to restructure his contract. Not extend, just restructure to open up cap room
    - Extend and restructure Reed to lower 2021 cap hit
    - Extend and restructure Dunlop with a friendly 2021 cap hit
    - Extend and restructure Adams on a 3-year deal with ~$7M cap hit in 2021
    - Approach Griffin to gauge how much he wants per season. If it's $10M+, let him walk
    - Approach Sherman to gauge interest
    - Bring back Irvin on a $3M-$4M deal
    - Appeal to Wright to come back on a similar two-year deal w/ a team option for 2022
    - Bring in one stud OL (Erving, Linsley, etc. Not Scherff or Thuney...they will be too expensive)
    - Bring in several other reasonably priced OL and make them compete for positions
    - RB. I'd love to kick the wheels on Fournette, but he's probably priced himself out of the budget w/ his playoff run. Looking at OTC.com, there are several good RBs that are FAs

    The DL looked much better once Dunlop arrived. I'm not convinced it's a glaring weakness right now. If they could go out and grab an situational impact player at a reasonable price, great. Same with the secondary. The defense started to gel down the stretch and there are many young good players already on the roster

    Other needs:
    TE
    DB (If Griffin walks)

    Draft Strategy: Draft the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE AT EVERY PICK. Period.

    The Mike McCarthy comparison doesn't apply to Pete, in my opinion. McCarthy was an offensive coach who struggled to take the pressure off Rodgers on offense and defense. For example, the Packers had 3 top 12 rushing seasons and 4 top 12 defenses' in 13 years with Rodgers.

    In contrast, Pete's had 7 top 12 rushing offenses and 6 top 12 defense (5 of which are top 5) in 9 years with Russell. For an even more striking number, Russell has only played 1 season without a top 15 scoring defense. Rodgers had 8 seasons without one with McCarthy.

    With that in mind, it's easy to see why you'd hesitate to move on from Pete in a similar manner as McCarthy. Pete has proven he's capable of putting together a winning team that is not reliant on one player to be successful. The same can't be said about McCarthy.
    knownone
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  • knownone wrote:
    TOPHawk wrote:To me, Carroll has become our Mike McCarthy during his last few season in GB. Good enough to get to the playoffs, just not good enough to go all the way. That being said, even McCarthy was able to coach his team to the NFCCG.

    What I would like to see:

    - Give Carroll a choice. Drop head coach duties and remain as President of Football Operations or you are fired from both
    - Hire Bieniemy (if he'd take the job). He's a good offensive mind for Russ and the Seahawks could use those extra 3rd-round picks
    - Approach Russ to restructure his contract. Not extend, just restructure to open up cap room
    - Extend and restructure Reed to lower 2021 cap hit
    - Extend and restructure Dunlop with a friendly 2021 cap hit
    - Extend and restructure Adams on a 3-year deal with ~$7M cap hit in 2021
    - Approach Griffin to gauge how much he wants per season. If it's $10M+, let him walk
    - Approach Sherman to gauge interest
    - Bring back Irvin on a $3M-$4M deal
    - Appeal to Wright to come back on a similar two-year deal w/ a team option for 2022
    - Bring in one stud OL (Erving, Linsley, etc. Not Scherff or Thuney...they will be too expensive)
    - Bring in several other reasonably priced OL and make them compete for positions
    - RB. I'd love to kick the wheels on Fournette, but he's probably priced himself out of the budget w/ his playoff run. Looking at OTC.com, there are several good RBs that are FAs

    The DL looked much better once Dunlop arrived. I'm not convinced it's a glaring weakness right now. If they could go out and grab an situational impact player at a reasonable price, great. Same with the secondary. The defense started to gel down the stretch and there are many young good players already on the roster

    Other needs:
    TE
    DB (If Griffin walks)

    Draft Strategy: Draft the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE AT EVERY PICK. Period.

    The Mike McCarthy comparison doesn't apply to Pete, in my opinion. McCarthy was an offensive coach who struggled to take the pressure off Rodgers on offense and defense. For example, the Packers had 3 top 12 rushing seasons and 4 top 12 defenses' in 13 years with Rodgers.

    In contrast, Pete's had 7 top 12 rushing offenses and 6 top 12 defense (5 of which are top 5) in 9 years with Russell. For an even more striking number, Russell has only played 1 season without a top 15 scoring defense. Rodgers had 8 seasons without one with McCarthy.

    With that in mind, it's easy to see why you'd hesitate to move on from Pete in a similar manner as McCarthy. Pete has proven he's capable of putting together a winning team that is not reliant on one player to be successful. The same can't be said about McCarthy.


    really hmm lets see

    prior to Seattle never a winning record

    He got here in 2010 we were, we got Lynch in 2010
    2010 7-9
    2011 7-9
    2012 when we got Wilson 11-5

    Sound to me like his ability to win is wrapped around 1 player. HE does not have a winning record without Wilson. He does without Lynch, he does without the LOB just not without Wilson. So actually he has not proven he can win without Wilson. Not to say he can't just he has not proven it yet.
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:
    knownone wrote:
    TOPHawk wrote:To me, Carroll has become our Mike McCarthy during his last few season in GB. Good enough to get to the playoffs, just not good enough to go all the way. That being said, even McCarthy was able to coach his team to the NFCCG.

    What I would like to see:

    - Give Carroll a choice. Drop head coach duties and remain as President of Football Operations or you are fired from both
    - Hire Bieniemy (if he'd take the job). He's a good offensive mind for Russ and the Seahawks could use those extra 3rd-round picks
    - Approach Russ to restructure his contract. Not extend, just restructure to open up cap room
    - Extend and restructure Reed to lower 2021 cap hit
    - Extend and restructure Dunlop with a friendly 2021 cap hit
    - Extend and restructure Adams on a 3-year deal with ~$7M cap hit in 2021
    - Approach Griffin to gauge how much he wants per season. If it's $10M+, let him walk
    - Approach Sherman to gauge interest
    - Bring back Irvin on a $3M-$4M deal
    - Appeal to Wright to come back on a similar two-year deal w/ a team option for 2022
    - Bring in one stud OL (Erving, Linsley, etc. Not Scherff or Thuney...they will be too expensive)
    - Bring in several other reasonably priced OL and make them compete for positions
    - RB. I'd love to kick the wheels on Fournette, but he's probably priced himself out of the budget w/ his playoff run. Looking at OTC.com, there are several good RBs that are FAs

    The DL looked much better once Dunlop arrived. I'm not convinced it's a glaring weakness right now. If they could go out and grab an situational impact player at a reasonable price, great. Same with the secondary. The defense started to gel down the stretch and there are many young good players already on the roster

    Other needs:
    TE
    DB (If Griffin walks)

    Draft Strategy: Draft the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE AT EVERY PICK. Period.

    The Mike McCarthy comparison doesn't apply to Pete, in my opinion. McCarthy was an offensive coach who struggled to take the pressure off Rodgers on offense and defense. For example, the Packers had 3 top 12 rushing seasons and 4 top 12 defenses' in 13 years with Rodgers.

    In contrast, Pete's had 7 top 12 rushing offenses and 6 top 12 defense (5 of which are top 5) in 9 years with Russell. For an even more striking number, Russell has only played 1 season without a top 15 scoring defense. Rodgers had 8 seasons without one with McCarthy.

    With that in mind, it's easy to see why you'd hesitate to move on from Pete in a similar manner as McCarthy. Pete has proven he's capable of putting together a winning team that is not reliant on one player to be successful. The same can't be said about McCarthy.


    really hmm lets see

    prior to Seattle never a winning record

    He got here in 2010 we were, we got Lynch in 2010
    2010 7-9
    2011 7-9
    2012 when we got Wilson 11-5

    Sound to me like his ability to win is wrapped around 1 player. HE does not have a winning record without Wilson. He does without Lynch, he does without the LOB just not without Wilson. So actually he has not proven he can win without Wilson. Not to say he can't just he has not proven it yet.


    He did go to the playoffs initially in New England, give him credit there, though it did end in flames. Also in 2010 and 2011 the Seahawks were in an utter state of disrepair. Carroll deserves credit for building those teams back up. Tim Ruskell left the franchise in a very sorry position. What Carroll did in 2010-2012 was quite possibly some of the best drafting I've ever seen. He leveraged his college inside information, and familiarity with the players to create one of the best teams that the NFL has ever seen. He created a culture of us vs. them, we all we got we all we need. What he was doing then resonated with many players and fans alike. He brought energy and he brought players that were pissed off and had chips on their shoulders. We were the team of misfits and unwanted toys that had something to prove.

    The main problem here is that drafting was unsustainable. We had one of the youngest teams in the NFL, all on rookie contracts which allowed us to pursue guys like Zach Miller, Avril, Tony McDaniel and Michael Bennett -- all of which played a key role in propelling the Seahawks to a championship. Once our guys got paid we could no longer do this anymore.

    The problem now is Carroll is fundamentally playing a different game. He doesn't have that same inside information, he has a whole roster full of guys that need to get paid, his drafting has regressed to the mean. As a result I think some flaws in his coaching strategy have been revealed, especially when he had to finally pay his QB big bucks.
    Spin Doctor
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  • 5-6 years ago ,when I figured that Carroll didn't give 2 chits for Wilson.
    xray
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  • John, to be fair, the team he got from Mora and Tim Ruskell has a crap show loaded with below average players.

    I doubt too many coaches would have a winning record during their first or even second year of a rebuild so devoid of top talent. Let's not kid ourselves, Pete's influence lead directly to a championship roster, the LOB and the ONLY Super Bowl title in Hawks history. Russ nearly blew the chance to get to the second Sooper Bowl by throwing 4 interceptions in the NFC Championship game. Tell me how many QBs in playoff history have thrown for 4 ints and still won. Not many, if any. That speaks volumes about a defense leaving it on the field for the sake of the team. Russ may have thrown the game winning TD pass to Kearse to ultimately advance to the title game, but his game alone is not the reason it happened.

    No question Wilson is a very good player, and I appreciate watching him work his magic, but this team as it's built right now is better suited to win without him than it was before he got here. I think we all can agree with that statement.
    nwHawk
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  • John63 wrote:
    knownone wrote:
    TOPHawk wrote:To me, Carroll has become our Mike McCarthy during his last few season in GB. Good enough to get to the playoffs, just not good enough to go all the way. That being said, even McCarthy was able to coach his team to the NFCCG.

    What I would like to see:

    - Give Carroll a choice. Drop head coach duties and remain as President of Football Operations or you are fired from both
    - Hire Bieniemy (if he'd take the job). He's a good offensive mind for Russ and the Seahawks could use those extra 3rd-round picks
    - Approach Russ to restructure his contract. Not extend, just restructure to open up cap room
    - Extend and restructure Reed to lower 2021 cap hit
    - Extend and restructure Dunlop with a friendly 2021 cap hit
    - Extend and restructure Adams on a 3-year deal with ~$7M cap hit in 2021
    - Approach Griffin to gauge how much he wants per season. If it's $10M+, let him walk
    - Approach Sherman to gauge interest
    - Bring back Irvin on a $3M-$4M deal
    - Appeal to Wright to come back on a similar two-year deal w/ a team option for 2022
    - Bring in one stud OL (Erving, Linsley, etc. Not Scherff or Thuney...they will be too expensive)
    - Bring in several other reasonably priced OL and make them compete for positions
    - RB. I'd love to kick the wheels on Fournette, but he's probably priced himself out of the budget w/ his playoff run. Looking at OTC.com, there are several good RBs that are FAs

    The DL looked much better once Dunlop arrived. I'm not convinced it's a glaring weakness right now. If they could go out and grab an situational impact player at a reasonable price, great. Same with the secondary. The defense started to gel down the stretch and there are many young good players already on the roster

    Other needs:
    TE
    DB (If Griffin walks)

    Draft Strategy: Draft the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE AT EVERY PICK. Period.

    The Mike McCarthy comparison doesn't apply to Pete, in my opinion. McCarthy was an offensive coach who struggled to take the pressure off Rodgers on offense and defense. For example, the Packers had 3 top 12 rushing seasons and 4 top 12 defenses' in 13 years with Rodgers.

    In contrast, Pete's had 7 top 12 rushing offenses and 6 top 12 defense (5 of which are top 5) in 9 years with Russell. For an even more striking number, Russell has only played 1 season without a top 15 scoring defense. Rodgers had 8 seasons without one with McCarthy.

    With that in mind, it's easy to see why you'd hesitate to move on from Pete in a similar manner as McCarthy. Pete has proven he's capable of putting together a winning team that is not reliant on one player to be successful. The same can't be said about McCarthy.


    really hmm lets see

    prior to Seattle never a winning record

    He got here in 2010 we were, we got Lynch in 2010
    2010 7-9
    2011 7-9
    2012 when we got Wilson 11-5

    Sound to me like his ability to win is wrapped around 1 player. HE does not have a winning record without Wilson. He does without Lynch, he does without the LOB just not without Wilson. So actually he has not proven he can win without Wilson. Not to say he can't just he has not proven it yet.

    Interesting logic. You might consider analyzing those seasons individually, as it may change your perception of those years.

    For example, 2011 was one year into one of the most complete rebuilds in NFL history. We had the 28th ranked passing offense, our starting QB played half the season with a torn pectoral muscle, and missed two games. We were still just 16 points, in one-possesions-games, from being 12-4 that year. Keep in mind, this was Earl's second season as a starter, Kam's first season as a starter, both KJ and Sherman rookies seasons, and Richard didn't start until week 6. Oh, and that's Browner's first year on the team as well. We also got Wagner, Irvin, and Sweezy in 2012. Serious question, do you honestly think that team does not improve over time?

    Also, Pete is 2-3 in the playoffs, as a head coach, without Wilson. Wilson is 1-3 without the LoB and an elite defense. I love Russ, but the idea that one of the great defenses of all time would struggle to make the playoffs is ridiculous levels of revisionist history.
    knownone
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  • Wow it's always the same I hate Pete posters posting their negative agenda. Every thread is the same ol' same ol'.

    Pete's seat isn't even close to getting hot. He enjoys the confidence of the ownership and management council created by Paul and enhanced by Jody. Pete does give a crap and wants to stay competitive. He's staying, & so is Wilson, the team will look different on O next year and be better.

    All the I Hate Pete posts here won't change a damn thing except convincing a few gullible souls that Pete is the Devil when he isn't. BTW neither is Schneider's seat hot either his new contract is for year longer than Pete's. Bothe have time to blow up the team, if needed, and rebuild it. This management group has done it better here than ever before and is one of the best groups in the NFL.

    Thing is blowing things up are clearly NOT needed, and around the league Seattle is seen as a good place to play with a progressive coach. That said there are things clearly in need of fixing to take the next step again. I love RW but agree with nwHawk.
    jammerhawk
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  • knownone wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    knownone wrote:
    TOPHawk wrote:To me, Carroll has become our Mike McCarthy during his last few season in GB. Good enough to get to the playoffs, just not good enough to go all the way. That being said, even McCarthy was able to coach his team to the NFCCG.

    What I would like to see:

    - Give Carroll a choice. Drop head coach duties and remain as President of Football Operations or you are fired from both
    - Hire Bieniemy (if he'd take the job). He's a good offensive mind for Russ and the Seahawks could use those extra 3rd-round picks
    - Approach Russ to restructure his contract. Not extend, just restructure to open up cap room
    - Extend and restructure Reed to lower 2021 cap hit
    - Extend and restructure Dunlop with a friendly 2021 cap hit
    - Extend and restructure Adams on a 3-year deal with ~$7M cap hit in 2021
    - Approach Griffin to gauge how much he wants per season. If it's $10M+, let him walk
    - Approach Sherman to gauge interest
    - Bring back Irvin on a $3M-$4M deal
    - Appeal to Wright to come back on a similar two-year deal w/ a team option for 2022
    - Bring in one stud OL (Erving, Linsley, etc. Not Scherff or Thuney...they will be too expensive)
    - Bring in several other reasonably priced OL and make them compete for positions
    - RB. I'd love to kick the wheels on Fournette, but he's probably priced himself out of the budget w/ his playoff run. Looking at OTC.com, there are several good RBs that are FAs

    The DL looked much better once Dunlop arrived. I'm not convinced it's a glaring weakness right now. If they could go out and grab an situational impact player at a reasonable price, great. Same with the secondary. The defense started to gel down the stretch and there are many young good players already on the roster

    Other needs:
    TE
    DB (If Griffin walks)

    Draft Strategy: Draft the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE AT EVERY PICK. Period.

    The Mike McCarthy comparison doesn't apply to Pete, in my opinion. McCarthy was an offensive coach who struggled to take the pressure off Rodgers on offense and defense. For example, the Packers had 3 top 12 rushing seasons and 4 top 12 defenses' in 13 years with Rodgers.

    In contrast, Pete's had 7 top 12 rushing offenses and 6 top 12 defense (5 of which are top 5) in 9 years with Russell. For an even more striking number, Russell has only played 1 season without a top 15 scoring defense. Rodgers had 8 seasons without one with McCarthy.

    With that in mind, it's easy to see why you'd hesitate to move on from Pete in a similar manner as McCarthy. Pete has proven he's capable of putting together a winning team that is not reliant on one player to be successful. The same can't be said about McCarthy.


    really hmm lets see

    prior to Seattle never a winning record

    He got here in 2010 we were, we got Lynch in 2010
    2010 7-9
    2011 7-9
    2012 when we got Wilson 11-5

    Sound to me like his ability to win is wrapped around 1 player. HE does not have a winning record without Wilson. He does without Lynch, he does without the LOB just not without Wilson. So actually he has not proven he can win without Wilson. Not to say he can't just he has not proven it yet.

    Interesting logic. You might consider analyzing those seasons individually, as it may change your perception of those years.

    For example, 2011 was one year into one of the most complete rebuilds in NFL history. We had the 28th ranked passing offense, our starting QB played half the season with a torn pectoral muscle, and missed two games. We were still just 16 points, in one-possesions-games, from being 12-4 that year. Keep in mind, this was Earl's second season as a starter, Kam's first season as a starter, both KJ and Sherman rookies seasons, and Richard didn't start until week 6. Oh, and that's Browner's first year on the team as well. We also got Wagner, Irvin, and Sweezy in 2012. Serious question, do you honestly think that team does not improve over time?

    Also, Pete is 2-3 in the playoffs, as a head coach, without Wilson. Wilson is 1-3 without the LoB and an elite defense. I love Russ, but the idea that one of the great defenses of all time would struggle to make the playoffs is ridiculous levels of revisionist history.

    What is pc without Wilson enough said.
    John63
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  • jammerhawk wrote:Wow it's always the same I hate Pete posters posting their negative agenda. Every thread is the same ol' same ol'.

    Pete's seat isn't even close to getting hot. He enjoys the confidence of the ownership and management council created by Paul and enhanced by Jody. Pete does give a crap and wants to stay competitive. He's staying, & so is Wilson, the team will look different on O next year and be better.

    All the I Hate Pete posts here won't change a damn thing except convincing a few gullible souls that Pete is the Devil when he isn't. BTW neither is Schneider's seat hot either his new contract is for year longer than Pete's. Bothe have time to blow up the team, if needed, and rebuild it. This management group has done it better here than ever before and is one of the best groups in the NFL.

    Thing is blowing things up are clearly NOT needed, and around the league Seattle is seen as a good place to play with a progressive coach. That said there are things clearly in need of fixing to take the next step again. I love RW but agree with nwHawk.

    **the previous administration was on of the best groups in the NFL**. The owner of the Seahawks Paul Allen is no longer around. We can't say definitively how good or bad Jody Allen is as owner of the Seahawks. Ultimately she's the one that has the final say in every and all decisions. We haven't seen any of her hires for coaches, or any definitive action on her part. We cannot say with any certainty how good or bad her management is.

    As far as Carroll goes, there are some legitimate problems with him as a head coach. I've outlined them, and to be quite frank with you, I want him gone. He's done all he is going to do as a Seahawk. I guarantee you he will never even touch so much as another NFC Championship game as head coach.

    I appreciate the man for what he's done, but the game has passed him by. I will look back on most of his career here fondly. That being said, I don't think he is capable of anymore here, he has peaked.
    Last edited by Spin Doctor on Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    Spin Doctor
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  • I think his seat gets hot when this Russell stuff hits a tipping point. How many successful teams move on from their franchise QB hitting their prime because he wants to be more involved and the HC wants a vanilla low-score style? You simply don't move on from a guy who spent his entire career on this team who has MVP qualities, you build around him.

    Pete isn't joking when he said a 16-13 win is what he'd prefer to see. Defense, ball control, risk adverse, run game that wears down the team by the 4th and you go win at the end. We've seen this style can compete with really anyone but also loses some stinkers. And then when you go against some really well coached teams who know what you're doing, they get blown out without a historic defense. I'm sure Russell realizes this.

    Pete is a tremendous culture builder with a blueprint for great defense. Dunlap filling in the crucial LEO role was such a season changer. It's also not surprising at this point to see many former players share the same sentiment about the program.

    Now the offense needs to be run by the new OC with Russell having a ton of say in it. I fear if that doesn't happen, Russ is looking to go play for another team. And there's probably 29 other teams who would love to get him.
    mistaowen
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  • Pete should have been fired over SB Int. How can anyone take anything he says seriously after that beyond me. Hawks have been so mediocre at best since that very moment which team has never recovered from. 12's and Seattle media types like Aaron Levine kiss his ass. Mommy, i'm sure will remove this post as well the truth hurts about Smiling Pete and what he's done to Hawks.
    hawksfansince90
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  • John63 wrote:
    knownone wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    knownone wrote:The Mike McCarthy comparison doesn't apply to Pete, in my opinion. McCarthy was an offensive coach who struggled to take the pressure off Rodgers on offense and defense. For example, the Packers had 3 top 12 rushing seasons and 4 top 12 defenses' in 13 years with Rodgers.

    In contrast, Pete's had 7 top 12 rushing offenses and 6 top 12 defense (5 of which are top 5) in 9 years with Russell. For an even more striking number, Russell has only played 1 season without a top 15 scoring defense. Rodgers had 8 seasons without one with McCarthy.

    With that in mind, it's easy to see why you'd hesitate to move on from Pete in a similar manner as McCarthy. Pete has proven he's capable of putting together a winning team that is not reliant on one player to be successful. The same can't be said about McCarthy.


    really hmm lets see

    prior to Seattle never a winning record

    He got here in 2010 we were, we got Lynch in 2010
    2010 7-9
    2011 7-9
    2012 when we got Wilson 11-5

    Sound to me like his ability to win is wrapped around 1 player. HE does not have a winning record without Wilson. He does without Lynch, he does without the LOB just not without Wilson. So actually he has not proven he can win without Wilson. Not to say he can't just he has not proven it yet.

    Interesting logic. You might consider analyzing those seasons individually, as it may change your perception of those years.

    For example, 2011 was one year into one of the most complete rebuilds in NFL history. We had the 28th ranked passing offense, our starting QB played half the season with a torn pectoral muscle, and missed two games. We were still just 16 points, in one-possesions-games, from being 12-4 that year. Keep in mind, this was Earl's second season as a starter, Kam's first season as a starter, both KJ and Sherman rookies seasons, and Richard didn't start until week 6. Oh, and that's Browner's first year on the team as well. We also got Wagner, Irvin, and Sweezy in 2012. Serious question, do you honestly think that team does not improve over time?

    Also, Pete is 2-3 in the playoffs, as a head coach, without Wilson. Wilson is 1-3 without the LoB and an elite defense. I love Russ, but the idea that one of the great defenses of all time would struggle to make the playoffs is ridiculous levels of revisionist history.

    What is pc without Wilson enough said.

    A hall of fame coach? I'm glad we agree.
    knownone
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  • I think the question everyone wants to know is, what is John63 gonna do when Russell forces his way out either this year or next? Will he stay or go with him?
    OrangeGravy
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  • Paul was hands off also, he paid attention behind the scenes and in his later years after the Super Bowl win was much more visible. He always was involved and sat at the table when it came to big contracts.

    Jody has representatives that report to her as well and I am sure she is involved, just not publicly. First and Goal and Vulcan all are part of the top end Management, always have been.
    chris98251
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  • Dude ain't going no where! Who is a proven Super Bowl winner that is available? Is he going to give up or change the way his does his duties...NO! Let it go!
    Hawks2022
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  • Hawks2022 wrote:Dude ain't going no where! Who is a proven Super Bowl winner that is available? Is he going to give up or change the way his does his duties...NO! Let it go!

    Eight years ago. That was eight years ago. Since then Pete hasn't gotten the team past the Divisional Round of the playoffs. How long can Pete, or others, cash in on the success of yesterday until the excuse becomes hollow and meaningless?
    Seahawk_Dan
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  • Its going to take Wilson walking and the team winning 5 to 6 games one season. Right now the team has ownership that has zero interest in football and just signed Carroll to a five year deal so he can drive the ship and they dont have to bother with it. The franchise makes money so why not? As soon as they start losing more and quit making that money, Jody will sell and Pete will be gone. That will be in a year or two when Russ moves on and it will be because of Pete.
    pittpnthrs
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  • If I’m ownership, I’m telling everyone that Russ is our priority. I’m soliciting his feedback and guidance. Russ has stated he’d like to be in Seattle his entire career and has even expressed interest in ownership.

    Regardless if you disagree with his latest comments (which were blown up), his desire to win and be the best he can be are unparalleled.

    Reports of management being upset with him are ludicrous. There has to be a point where Pete says “You know what? Let’s try it his way.” Unfortunately, no one sees PC doing this. You’re hearing about more and more players wanting to be involved in things such as the hiring/selection process for players, coaches, etc...I don’t see that being a bad thing. Guys like that WANT to win. It gets frowned. Fans think they need to “stay in their lane”. I disagree.

    I hope Pete sees the light. If Russ is traded or doesn’t resign because things haven’t changed, you can go ahead and mark it as one of the biggest organizational fails in history.

    I feel the same about Watson in Houston.
    Elemas
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  • Elemas wrote:If I’m ownership, I’m telling everyone that Russ is our priority. I’m soliciting his feedback and guidance. Russ has stated he’d like to be in Seattle his entire career and has even expressed interest in ownership.

    Regardless if you disagree with his latest comments (which were blown up), his desire to win and be the best he can be are unparalleled.

    Reports of management being upset with him are ludicrous. There has to be a point where Pete says “You know what? Let’s try it his way.” Unfortunately, no one sees PC doing this. You’re hearing about more and more players wanting to be involved in things such as the hiring/selection process for players, coaches, etc...I don’t see that being a bad thing. Guys like that WANT to win. It gets frowned. Fans think they need to “stay in their lane”. I disagree.

    I hope Pete sees the light. If Russ is traded or doesn’t resign because things haven’t changed, you can go ahead and mark it as one of the biggest organizational fails in history.

    I feel the same about Watson in Houston.

    Preach!

    Well said, man!

    I agree, 10,000%!
    TheLegendOfBoom
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  • Elemas wrote:If I’m ownership, I’m telling everyone that Russ is our priority. I’m soliciting his feedback and guidance. Russ has stated he’d like to be in Seattle his entire career and has even expressed interest in ownership.

    Regardless if you disagree with his latest comments (which were blown up), his desire to win and be the best he can be are unparalleled.

    Reports of management being upset with him are ludicrous. There has to be a point where Pete says “You know what? Let’s try it his way.” Unfortunately, no one sees PC doing this. You’re hearing about more and more players wanting to be involved in things such as the hiring/selection process for players, coaches, etc...I don’t see that being a bad thing. Guys like that WANT to win. It gets frowned. Fans think they need to “stay in their lane”. I disagree.

    I hope Pete sees the light. If Russ is traded or doesn’t resign because things haven’t changed, you can go ahead and mark it as one of the biggest organizational fails in history.

    I feel the same about Watson in Houston.
    This year wasn’t trying it Russ’s way?
    hawk45
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  • hawk45 wrote:
    Elemas wrote:If I’m ownership, I’m telling everyone that Russ is our priority. I’m soliciting his feedback and guidance. Russ has stated he’d like to be in Seattle his entire career and has even expressed interest in ownership.

    Regardless if you disagree with his latest comments (which were blown up), his desire to win and be the best he can be are unparalleled.

    Reports of management being upset with him are ludicrous. There has to be a point where Pete says “You know what? Let’s try it his way.” Unfortunately, no one sees PC doing this. You’re hearing about more and more players wanting to be involved in things such as the hiring/selection process for players, coaches, etc...I don’t see that being a bad thing. Guys like that WANT to win. It gets frowned. Fans think they need to “stay in their lane”. I disagree.

    I hope Pete sees the light. If Russ is traded or doesn’t resign because things haven’t changed, you can go ahead and mark it as one of the biggest organizational fails in history.

    I feel the same about Watson in Houston.
    This year wasn’t trying it Russ’s way?

    I don't get that either. Russ got what he wanted and he Sh!t the bed in the middle of the season. They still passed the ball a ton, just ineffectively. Any reigning in by Pete was his and Schotty's fault. Let Russ Cook flamed out, Period. Now Waldron may be able to add something to eliminate that dip or at least minimize it. That remains to be seen.

    Russ has pretty much got what he wanted, but still has issue. O-line is failure, NOT a refusal. The whole thing feels like it doesn't really have anything to do with all THAT stuff, but maybe something on a more personal level.
    OrangeGravy
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  • Elemas wrote:If I’m ownership, I’m telling everyone that Russ is our priority. I’m soliciting his feedback and guidance. Russ has stated he’d like to be in Seattle his entire career and has even expressed interest in ownership.

    Regardless if you disagree with his latest comments (which were blown up), his desire to win and be the best he can be are unparalleled.

    Reports of management being upset with him are ludicrous. There has to be a point where Pete says “You know what? Let’s try it his way.” Unfortunately, no one sees PC doing this. You’re hearing about more and more players wanting to be involved in things such as the hiring/selection process for players, coaches, etc...I don’t see that being a bad thing. Guys like that WANT to win. It gets frowned. Fans think they need to “stay in their lane”. I disagree.

    I hope Pete sees the light. If Russ is traded or doesn’t resign because things haven’t changed, you can go ahead and mark it as one of the biggest organizational fails in history.

    I feel the same about Watson in Houston.

    No. That's not how you run a successful organization. You don't want players to be involved due to the incentive structure of being a player. Players don't have the time or ability to project, scout, or make long-term plans. On top of that, they have an incentive to make moves for short term gain because their careers are finite.

    What this really comes down to is people who blindly support Russell and people who acknowledge that reality does, in fact, exist. In other words, being a great player does not mean you know anything about running, managing, or coaching a team. Russell's desire to win is unquantifiable and meaningless. His platitudes are meaningless. It's marketing jargon and irrelevant to the discussion. For example, Terrell Owens really wanted to win, he had a great desire for being the best, and he really cared what was best for the franchise. Do the platitudes change the impact of his words? No. He was selfish and ultimately cared more about himself, his brand, his legacy, than winning.

    The front office is looking out for the best interests of the franchise. Russell is looking out for himself. What you are advocating for is what bad organizations do. So in the hypothetical scenario where Russ is truly upset and wants to leave, you move on from him. Because you want people who put the team first, not people who put some vague expression of their "legacy" first.
    knownone
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  • hawk45 wrote:
    Elemas wrote:If I’m ownership, I’m telling everyone that Russ is our priority. I’m soliciting his feedback and guidance. Russ has stated he’d like to be in Seattle his entire career and has even expressed interest in ownership.

    Regardless if you disagree with his latest comments (which were blown up), his desire to win and be the best he can be are unparalleled.

    Reports of management being upset with him are ludicrous. There has to be a point where Pete says “You know what? Let’s try it his way.” Unfortunately, no one sees PC doing this. You’re hearing about more and more players wanting to be involved in things such as the hiring/selection process for players, coaches, etc...I don’t see that being a bad thing. Guys like that WANT to win. It gets frowned. Fans think they need to “stay in their lane”. I disagree.

    I hope Pete sees the light. If Russ is traded or doesn’t resign because things haven’t changed, you can go ahead and mark it as one of the biggest organizational fails in history.

    I feel the same about Watson in Houston.
    This year wasn’t trying it Russ’s way?


    I feel like it was up until game 6 or so. I truly believe that Pete freaked on the turnovers and Schotty had to restructure the offense. Obviously, never happened.

    Imagine our first half of the season O with the second half D. That would’ve been a trip to Tampa.
    Elemas
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  • knownone wrote:
    Elemas wrote:If I’m ownership, I’m telling everyone that Russ is our priority. I’m soliciting his feedback and guidance. Russ has stated he’d like to be in Seattle his entire career and has even expressed interest in ownership.

    Regardless if you disagree with his latest comments (which were blown up), his desire to win and be the best he can be are unparalleled.

    Reports of management being upset with him are ludicrous. There has to be a point where Pete says “You know what? Let’s try it his way.” Unfortunately, no one sees PC doing this. You’re hearing about more and more players wanting to be involved in things such as the hiring/selection process for players, coaches, etc...I don’t see that being a bad thing. Guys like that WANT to win. It gets frowned. Fans think they need to “stay in their lane”. I disagree.

    I hope Pete sees the light. If Russ is traded or doesn’t resign because things haven’t changed, you can go ahead and mark it as one of the biggest organizational fails in history.

    I feel the same about Watson in Houston.

    No. That's not how you run a successful organization. You don't want players to be involved due to the incentive structure of being a player. Players don't have the time or ability to project, scout, or make long-term plans. On top of that, they have an incentive to make moves for short term gain because their careers are finite.

    What this really comes down to is people who blindly support Russell and people who acknowledge that reality does, in fact, exist. In other words, being a great player does not mean you know anything about running, managing, or coaching a team. Russell's desire to win is unquantifiable and meaningless. His platitudes are meaningless. It's marketing jargon and irrelevant to the discussion. For example, Terrell Owens really wanted to win, he had a great desire for being the best, and he really cared what was best for the franchise. Do the platitudes change the impact of his words? No. He was selfish and ultimately cared more about himself, his brand, his legacy, than winning.

    The front office is looking out for the best interests of the franchise. Russell is looking out for himself. What you are advocating for is what bad organizations do. So in the hypothetical scenario where Russ is truly upset and wants to leave, you move on from him. Because you want people who put the team first, not people who put some vague expression of their "legacy" first.


    In many cases, I agree with your statement. I’m not taking TOs advice. People are paid to do what they do and I think we do have some of the best in the business.

    But, there are exceptions. Russell Wilson is an exception. Lebron James is an exception. Watson...is an exception. What you call blind support, I call reality. This team is in the gutter without RW and to think otherwise, is mind boggling.

    This topic wasn’t even a conversation earlier this season. Now, when he speaks up, RW is just talking recklessly and it doesn’t mean anything.

    You’re wrong. His desire to win is what has kept this franchise afloat for several years. I respect your opinion and understand it, but wholeheartedly disagree.
    Elemas
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  • knownone wrote:
    Elemas wrote:If I’m ownership, I’m telling everyone that Russ is our priority. I’m soliciting his feedback and guidance. Russ has stated he’d like to be in Seattle his entire career and has even expressed interest in ownership.

    Regardless if you disagree with his latest comments (which were blown up), his desire to win and be the best he can be are unparalleled.

    Reports of management being upset with him are ludicrous. There has to be a point where Pete says “You know what? Let’s try it his way.” Unfortunately, no one sees PC doing this. You’re hearing about more and more players wanting to be involved in things such as the hiring/selection process for players, coaches, etc...I don’t see that being a bad thing. Guys like that WANT to win. It gets frowned. Fans think they need to “stay in their lane”. I disagree.

    I hope Pete sees the light. If Russ is traded or doesn’t resign because things haven’t changed, you can go ahead and mark it as one of the biggest organizational fails in history.

    I feel the same about Watson in Houston.

    No. That's not how you run a successful organization. You don't want players to be involved due to the incentive structure of being a player. Players don't have the time or ability to project, scout, or make long-term plans. On top of that, they have an incentive to make moves for short term gain because their careers are finite.

    What this really comes down to is people who blindly support Russell and people who acknowledge that reality does, in fact, exist. In other words, being a great player does not mean you know anything about running, managing, or coaching a team. Russell's desire to win is unquantifiable and meaningless. His platitudes are meaningless. It's marketing jargon and irrelevant to the discussion. For example, Terrell Owens really wanted to win, he had a great desire for being the best, and he really cared what was best for the franchise. Do the platitudes change the impact of his words? No. He was selfish and ultimately cared more about himself, his brand, his legacy, than winning.

    The front office is looking out for the best interests of the franchise. Russell is looking out for himself. What you are advocating for is what bad organizations do. So in the hypothetical scenario where Russ is truly upset and wants to leave, you move on from him. Because you want people who put the team first, not people who put some vague expression of their "legacy" first.


    Hmm so if I get what you are saying the players none of them , not even your franchise QB even have a right to give their opinion on anything to do with the tam, even if it impacts them as well. Hmm what if it was Brady, or Bress, or Rodgers would you be for allowing them to give their opinion? BY way the TB coach said Brady had a say in everything. Guess that they won a SB, and he is not the only franchise QB to do so.

    The reality is you allow them a say, but that does not mean you follow it, but you give them a say.
    John63
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  • Elemas wrote:
    hawk45 wrote:
    Elemas wrote:If I’m ownership, I’m telling everyone that Russ is our priority. I’m soliciting his feedback and guidance. Russ has stated he’d like to be in Seattle his entire career and has even expressed interest in ownership.

    Regardless if you disagree with his latest comments (which were blown up), his desire to win and be the best he can be are unparalleled.

    Reports of management being upset with him are ludicrous. There has to be a point where Pete says “You know what? Let’s try it his way.” Unfortunately, no one sees PC doing this. You’re hearing about more and more players wanting to be involved in things such as the hiring/selection process for players, coaches, etc...I don’t see that being a bad thing. Guys like that WANT to win. It gets frowned. Fans think they need to “stay in their lane”. I disagree.

    I hope Pete sees the light. If Russ is traded or doesn’t resign because things haven’t changed, you can go ahead and mark it as one of the biggest organizational fails in history.

    I feel the same about Watson in Houston.
    This year wasn’t trying it Russ’s way?


    I feel like it was up until game 6 or so. I truly believe that Pete freaked on the turnovers and Schotty had to restructure the offense. Obviously, never happened.

    Imagine our first half of the season O with the second half D. That would’ve been a trip to Tampa.


    that is what happened and the weird part is 4 of the TOs were off receivers hands and should not have happened. Also, add in he wanted to protect his defense which sucked at that point and to him that mean changing the offense to eat up more time. Despite the fact we were winning TOP
    John63
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  • 4 years ago.
    hawker84
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  • When the Seahawks stop winning!
    FresnoHawk68
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  • Most likely never. It would take Russ acrimoniously forcing his way out and then the team collapsing winning 3-4 multiple years in a row, which I don't see happening
    ducks41468
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  • Whatever your POV on Pete vs Wilson, you have to acknowledge what we are doing is not working.

    Since the SB loss, Seattle is a pushover in the playoffs. The Rams said as much. Remember their goal was to get the Seahawks in the playoffs. No matter how much they struggled or what problems they had, they knew they would easily beat us...and they did.

    If you are any kind of competitive team in the playoffs, no matter the Seahawk regular season record, the Seahawks are the easy if not the easiest pathway.

    That bothered a lot of us as fans, but it was weird how many players did not seem that bothered by it.

    One of the biggest problems I have had with Russ is that he seemed OK with the status quo.

    He had to see what was going on, but he never called out Pete publicly on it. He never seemed to resist.

    He just let this team do the equivalent of trying to play basketball with one hand tied behind your back. You can do it. But it will be awful to watch and require some crazy shots to go in.

    So him calling out Pete last year was a breath of fresh air.

    This year I am positively giddy about the thought of a determined Wilson telling Pete he doesn't care what Pete thinks and is going to do it his way.

    There is nothing wrong with Wilson going rogue. It is what we needed all this time. Because what we were doing before was not working.
    TwistedHusky
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Whatever your POV on Pete vs Wilson, you have to acknowledge what we are doing is not working.

    Since the SB loss, Seattle is a pushover in the playoffs. The Rams said as much. Remember their goal was to get the Seahawks in the playoffs. No matter how much they struggled or what problems they had, they knew they would easily beat us...and they did.

    If you are any kind of competitive team in the playoffs, no matter the Seahawk regular season record, the Seahawks are the easy if not the easiest pathway.

    That bothered a lot of us as fans, but it was weird how many players did not seem that bothered by it.

    One of the biggest problems I have had with Russ is that he seemed OK with the status quo.

    He had to see what was going on, but he never called out Pete publicly on it. He never seemed to resist.

    He just let this team do the equivalent of trying to play basketball with one hand tied behind your back. You can do it. But it will be awful to watch and require some crazy shots to go in.

    So him calling out Pete last year was a breath of fresh air.

    This year I am positively giddy about the thought of a determined Wilson telling Pete he doesn't care what Pete thinks and is going to do it his way.

    There is nothing wrong with Wilson going rogue. It is what we needed all this time. Because what we were doing before was not working.


    I’m a Seahawk fan and I disagree with your analysis of what’s going on!
    FresnoHawk68
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  • Back to back missing the playoffs Pete gets fired, 2 out of 3 losing Seasons Pete gets fired!
    FresnoHawk68
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  • Fresno,

    You disagree that the Seahawks have been an easy mark in the playoffs? Almost a pushover?

    Even though we like to give the opposing team a multiple TD lead by halftime unless their QB is injured and borderline ineffective?

    Or you disagree that Wilson should be pushing back on the above?

    The rest is opinion, so just curious which part of the analysis you are disputing?
    TwistedHusky
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