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Does anyone else still support Pete?

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Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:31 am
  • Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

    Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:02 am
  • You choose..Pete or Russ...one will go. Maybe not this offseason but probably next.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:06 am
  • If Pete can't adjust his gameplan to get the most out of his star players, especially if his stubbornness drives a HoF QB out of town, he should go.

    Russ didn't win that SB, but he was a big part of getting there, and Pete has not shown any sign he is able to draft with the precision he did in the first few years when he had recruited all that college talent for USC.

    If Russ goes, we fall into mediocrity, and Pete will leave in shame in the end.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:13 am
  • Cyrus12 wrote:You choose..Pete or Russ...one will go. Maybe not this offseason but probably next.

    A great QB can make a mediocre coach look good.

    A great coach cannot make a mediocre QB look good.

    Wilson is the one you keep happy.

    Franchise QBs, especially generational talent, do not come around often.

    Carroll can be replaced before Wilson can be replaced.

    And it’s not even close.

    If Jody Allen has learned anything from Paul, she needs to step in at some point and cannot be afraid to make a franchise changing decision. If she doesn’t want too, she can hand the keys to me and I will gladly do so.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:29 am
  • pinksheets wrote:If Pete can't adjust his gameplan to get the most out of his star players, especially if his stubbornness drives a HoF QB out of town, he should go.

    Russ didn't win that SB, but he was a big part of getting there, and Pete has not shown any sign he is able to draft with the precision he did in the first few years when he had recruited all that college talent for USC.

    If Russ goes, we fall into mediocrity, and Pete will leave in shame in the end.


    Well said. 100% agree.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:41 am
  • Welshers wrote:Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

    Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.


    Well I certainly still support Carroll. I think Russell and co have enticed him away from how he wants to play ball, and as a result in January we still are trying to figure out who we are as a team. I think Carroll’s scheme still work, but was getting fought this year from shotty and Wilson. Schotty is gone, Wilson may be next.

    I disagree that Wilson is a generational talent, from a physical standpoint he isn’t. I think Wilson has lost that step or two that made him a truly UNIQUE player in the early 2010’s and it’s screwed up his game. Hell still have stretches where he looks elite like usual, but it won’t be sustained like it was. 17% of your cap to 1 player is hard to build around. How many bowls has Rodgers won despite bein the best QB in the league? Sure it’s kept them relevant and made the owners a bunch of money. But 1 player taking 20% of the cap is prohibitive of a super bowl champion. And, Wilson is definitely no Rodgers.

    I side with Pete, run the ball and play D. That’s what’s the bucs just did too. Running opens play action which destroyed KC.
    Look we made a switch mid year because Wilson was throwing too many poor passes and forcing things rather than check the ball down. But we still threw it twice as much as we ran it! That’s not a Pete Carroll team, and I don’t think Waldron will either despite the fact Russell may want to throw it every play.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:54 am
  • You ride your best horses.

    When your best weapons are on offense, you leverage that.

    When your best weapons are on defense, you do the same.

    Pete's problem is that he only knows how to coach one way. And that way does not match the roster.

    So we shifted to a Ty Willinghamesque gameplan, which gives the illusion you are better than you are but is exposed in the playoffs.

    Pete is also a wasting asset. Most players are but due to his age he is almost at the end of being valuable regardless of who he coaches.

    The hardest thing to find is not an aging coach that gets knocked out of the playoffs regularly. The hardest thing for a franchise to find is an HOF caliber QB in his prime. We have one and to keep our aging coach we are thinking of trading that away? For what? Draft picks that Pete tends to squander anyway?
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:12 pm
  • Welshers wrote:Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

    Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.


    I support Pete %100! When Russ has moved on to another team I’ll be excited about the future of Seahawk football.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:15 pm
  • Elemas wrote:
    pinksheets wrote:If Pete can't adjust his gameplan to get the most out of his star players, especially if his stubbornness drives a HoF QB out of town, he should go.

    Russ didn't win that SB, but he was a big part of getting there, and Pete has not shown any sign he is able to draft with the precision he did in the first few years when he had recruited all that college talent for USC.

    If Russ goes, we fall into mediocrity, and Pete will leave in shame in the end.


    Well said. 100% agree.


    At USC I though Pete overused his star players! I think what’s happening is RW isn’t getting the ball to them the right way & not enough.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:23 pm
  • I don’t support Pete and wish he would retire. A couple years ago in fact. Why?

    1. Drafting. Yes some blame JS but he is just a figurehead in the draft room. PCs extremely poor drafting has left the team hollow of good players on reasonable contracts forcing more expensive options being used.

    2. Free agent signings. I started a thread on good free agent signings and the only name to come up was a kicker. It’s always old tired vets with good names (Olsen/zingy Ansah) our unaccomplished players with potential that fail at a pretty high rate.

    3. Holding on to BAD assistants . Bevel, Cable, and, lest we forget KNJ who should also be on the scrap heap.

    4. Playoff Failures - 3 sad wins in 6 postseasons. A Super Bowl buys a coach some time to have some failures but PC has used those up and more. We are not a Super Bowl caliber team no matter how many times we get to the playoffs and that is on PC.

    5. No adapting. PCs philosophy of we won’t adapt to you we will make you adapt to us doesn’t work when we aren’t nearly as talented as the other tea.

    6. Offensive Line. Some of here have been yelling about this for years and they just refuse to fix it.

    7. Control Issues. Just won’t let the assistants do what the assistants are hired to do. We will likely look the same on offense as we have for 6 years unless the power play by RW works.

    I am grateful for a Super Bowl win and another Super Bowl appearance. Name a street after him, give him a gold watch he needs help lifting and give him some empty bankers boxes so he can clear out his office.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:39 pm
  • Yeah, he's fine. I wouldn't fire him or anything, but I wouldn't be too upset if he decided to retire either. He CAN win another championship, I'm just less confident of that than I once was.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:47 pm
  • Welshers wrote:Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

    Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.



    Problem is you just did disrespect Wilson, You basically said any QB could have led that team to the SB. Which is factually wrong, and obviously you forget the 500+ yards rushing, or the 5+ 4th qytr/ot comeback wins making plays that few QBs could make. It was not all Wilson, but he was very very important part of it. Also keep in mind he as 2 other Qbs before Wilson, and he has been a HC before and failed.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:57 pm
  • Welshers wrote:Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

    Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.

    I most certainly do not dislike Pete; there is a lot of things that he does that get's ignored or glossed over, things like going after, and bringing in Marshawn Lynch, to which turned out to be a great help to Wilson's game.
    Pete isn't stupid, nor does he dislike Russ, he DOES KNOW that without a decent/good/great Run game, it's all dumped right back on his QB's lap, hence, the REASON for his Push for yet another & a more creative O.C. Third one obtained FOR Russell Wilson.
    All this crap about them being Yes Men is just that...CRAP.
    There's no doubt that we need to upgrade the O-Line, none whatsoever, but isn't Solari still working with some of Cable's players?, didn't they go after Brown?, Lewis?, & a couple other standouts?
    Too many are calling out Pete, without having any of the moxie, or the credentials to do so.
    John needs to get way more creative, & come up with a bunch of money (maybe out his arse) to find some all Pro road graders who can block for the run game AND also Pass Protect.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:58 pm
  • Everyone needs remember PC has been a HC before, and also was here 2 years before Wilson. His ...."system" did not do much till he got Wilson. In addition, lets be real his draft shave not been great since his 3rd year. Why...because he came in form college and new all those players well. Now he does not.

    I am not saying PC system cannot work, but it takes alot and very specific things to make it work

    He needs a top 3 defense
    he needs a top 3 physical RB
    He needs a play, making QB that can run and make something out of nothing,

    There is very little room for error in his system as most often you go into the 4th qtr with a small lead or a small deficit.

    It is very very tough to put all that together, and his unwillingness to adapt means there is no other way.

    So do I support PC yes and no. He is our coach there for I support him. Wilson is our QB there for I support him. If the question is if only 1 can stay who would I pick its Wilson. Why Because it is harder to find a great QB then a great Coach Because the needed requirements for his system to work are very very hard to put together.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:00 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    Welshers wrote:Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

    Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.

    I most certainly do not dislike Pete; there is a lot of things that he does that get's ignored or glossed over, things like going after, and bringing in Marshawn Lynch, to which turned out to be a great help to Wilson's game.
    Pete isn't stupid, nor does he dislike Russ, he DOES KNOW that without a decent/good/great Run game, it's all dumped right back on his QB's lap, hence, the REASON for his Push for yet another & a more creative O.C. Third one obtained FOR Russell Wilson.
    All this crap about them being Yes Men is just that...CRAP.
    There's no doubt that we need to upgrade the O-Line, none whatsoever, but isn't Solari still working with some of Cable's players?, didn't they go after Brown?, Lewis?, & a couple other standouts?
    Too many are calling out Pete, without having any of the moxie, or the credentials to do so.
    John needs to get way more creative, & come up with a bunch of money (maybe out his arse) to find some all Pro road graders who can block for the run game AND also Pass Protect.



    ahh Lynch was here before Wilson. He had basically the same team that won the SB in 2011 before WIlson.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:39 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    Welshers wrote:Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

    Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.



    Problem is you just did disrespect Wilson, You basically said any QB could have led that team to the SB. Which is factually wrong, and obviously you forget the 500+ yards rushing, or the 5+ 4th qytr/ot comeback wins making plays that few QBs could make. It was not all Wilson, but he was very very important part of it. Also keep in mind he as 2 other Qbs before Wilson, and he has been a HC before and failed.

    All I said was that we won the SB before he was in HoF form. That's true. He didn't carry Pete that year. I never said he wasn't great or a big part of us winning it.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:53 pm
  • Elemas wrote:
    pinksheets wrote:If Pete can't adjust his gameplan to get the most out of his star players, especially if his stubbornness drives a HoF QB out of town, he should go.

    Russ didn't win that SB, but he was a big part of getting there, and Pete has not shown any sign he is able to draft with the precision he did in the first few years when he had recruited all that college talent for USC.

    If Russ goes, we fall into mediocrity, and Pete will leave in shame in the end.


    Well said. 100% agree.


    Maybe, just maybe Pete knows Wilsons strengths and weaknesses better than Russ knows himself.

    Carroll let Russ cook until he became a turnover machine. He's also just given the green light to an OC that is essentially Russ' choice. He's given a lot of control and power to Russ lately.

    I think we need both Carroll and Russ, and I hope they're both here for the rest of their careers. When you have a top tier coach, a top tier GM, and a top tier QB they all need to get on the same page, and it should be about winning, not power/legacy/stats.

    However, Russ is making a lot of noise lately for a player who hasn't progressed much over the last few years, despite the talent around him improving (especially weapons). I'm hoping he puts in the hours with the new OC and his teammates this season to work on his short/intermediate passing game, and with his O-line at moving the pocket.

    I think the pre 2019 Russ would have found a way to win the Giants game and probably the Rams wildcard game. Pete needs to improve the D, JS needs to improve the O-line and RB depth, and Russ needs to improve his game.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:37 pm
  • It's a "what have you done for me lately" league. I am good with Pete being the coach next year. Despite losing in the first round of the playoffs, he has led the team on a series of winning seasons. The team has improved since missing the playoffs in 2017. That being said, winning seasons that don't lead to deep playoff runs are discouraging. The big trophy and shiny rings are the goal. Seahawks haven't made it past the divisional round of the playoffs since 2014. I get the feeling that this is a big change year. Controversies can promote positive change and growth just as much as devastation. One more year, Pete.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:37 pm
  • hinton wrote:
    Elemas wrote:
    pinksheets wrote:If Pete can't adjust his gameplan to get the most out of his star players, especially if his stubbornness drives a HoF QB out of town, he should go.

    Russ didn't win that SB, but he was a big part of getting there, and Pete has not shown any sign he is able to draft with the precision he did in the first few years when he had recruited all that college talent for USC.

    If Russ goes, we fall into mediocrity, and Pete will leave in shame in the end.


    Well said. 100% agree.


    Maybe, just maybe Pete knows Wilsons strengths and weaknesses better than Russ knows himself.


    That might be true, and if Pete believes Russ just can't play at that level to lead them to a Lombardi as a gunslinger, and that we're better off letting him walk away if he cant live playing on a leash, then he should let him go.

    That choice would define Pete's legacy, though. If Russ leaves and just kills it consistently for another team, Pete will be remembered as the guy who didn't know what he had and made the fans in Seattle pay for it by losing the most important player in franchise history.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:52 pm
  • I'm sort of on both sides of this issue. On the one hand, I think Russell is an elite QB, and they should do everything to make things easier on him. On the other, I think Pete is one of the greatest coaches of all time, and I have zero doubt that he would be successful without Wilson.

    The problem I see is the asymmetrical distribution of credit and blame. For example, I have yet to wrap my head around the logic that "Pete's conservative offense is holding Russell back," and also "Russell is the only reason Seattle is not a 4 win team." These are two mutually exclusive concepts, in my opinion. You can't think Pete is underutilizing Russ while simultaneously thinking they couldn't win with a lesser QB than Russ. It's nonsense.

    A more rational approach, with symmetrical distribution, would be to acknowledge that Seattle is better with Russell than without him. The same logic then also applies to Pete. We can't assume that a new coach would be better than Pete just because it's not Pete.

    Ultimately, this is a "my dad could beat your dad" situation where each side of the equation has already made up their mind and is unwilling to consider the possibility that they are wrong. In this case, all other things equal, the only reason you'd favor keeping Russ over Pete is because of age. Pete's future is less certain than Russell's. Without that consideration, their accomplishments are functionally inseparable. We cannot assume that one is better without the other because we have no evidence to support that conclusion, just opinions.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:01 pm
  • knownone wrote:I'm sort of on both sides of this issue. On the one hand, I think Russell is an elite QB, and they should do everything to make things easier on him. On the other, I think Pete is one of the greatest coaches of all time, and I have zero doubt that he would be successful without Wilson.

    The problem I see is the asymmetrical distribution of credit and blame. For example, I have yet to wrap my head around the logic that "Pete's conservative offense is holding Russell back," and also "Russell is the only reason Seattle is not a 4 win team." These are two mutually exclusive concepts, in my opinion. You can't think Pete is underutilizing Russ while simultaneously thinking they couldn't win with a lesser QB than Russ. It's nonsense.

    A more rational approach, with symmetrical distribution, would be to acknowledge that Seattle is better with Russell than without him. The same logic then also applies to Pete. We can't assume that a new coach would be better than Pete just because it's not Pete.

    Ultimately, this is a "my dad could beat your dad" situation where each side of the equation has already made up their mind and is unwilling to consider the possibility that they are wrong. In this case, all other things equal, the only reason you'd favor keeping Russ over Pete is because of age. Pete's future is less certain than Russell's. Without that consideration, their accomplishments are functionally inseparable. We cannot assume that one is better without the other because we have no evidence to support that conclusion, just opinions.


    Exactly, so many people are over-reacting to the entire thing and forcing narratives without realising the contradictions.

    The same people yelling "Pate is keeping the O on a leash" are the same people that yelled "how could Pete have let Bevell call a pass in the SB", you can't have it both ways.

    Pete s a top-tier coach, Russ is a top-tier QB. Both need to get on the same page, quickly.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:06 pm
  • Pete is top tier in terms of regular season wins.

    Maybe.

    Since the SB loss, he is actually fairly poor in the playoffs.

    I don't think you can use the term 'Pete is a top tier coach' anymore. He WAS a top tier coach but the weaknesses are starting to outweigh the positives now.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:21 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Pete is top tier in terms of regular season wins.

    Maybe.

    Since the SB loss, he is actually fairly poor in the playoffs.

    I don't think you can use the term 'Pete is a top tier coach' anymore. He WAS a top tier coach but the weaknesses are starting to outweigh the positives now.

    By that logic, Russell is not a top tier QB. Kind of a silly barometer, no?
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:24 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Pete is top tier in terms of regular season wins.

    Maybe.

    Since the SB loss, he is actually fairly poor in the playoffs.

    I don't think you can use the term 'Pete is a top tier coach' anymore. He WAS a top tier coach but the weaknesses are starting to outweigh the positives now.


    If that's your argument against Carroll fine, but you have to be willing to apply the same to Wilson too.

    Wilson hasn't played like a top tier QB in the last few seasons either, and we've had a few 'easy' playoff games against depleted teams.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:26 pm
  • Easy answer on this one. Nope. Just go back and listen to his post game pressers and Monday morning interviews. He is so stuck in his ways. He prefers to win close games. He is stuck on this, win in the fourth quarter” mentality. The game has passed him by a while ago.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:31 pm
  • hinton,

    Your answer is why Wilson is 100% gone.

    Because during the SB, when Wilson came up - people pointed this out. Surely Wilson heard this and got to thinking about his legacy. He realized that if he was ever going to be great, it would never be with Pete as his coach. Never again anyway.

    Because Pete turtles up in the playoffs. And is easy to anticipate and tactically overcome.

    So if Wilson does not want the legacy of being a playoff loser, and 'only was good in the playoffs with the LOB' then he has to leave Pete behind.

    Now you know why this is happening.

    Wilson talks about his legacy all the time. And Pete is destroying it more with each year.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:45 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:hinton,

    Your answer is why Wilson is 100% gone.

    Because during the SB, when Wilson came up - people pointed this out. Surely Wilson heard this and got to thinking about his legacy. He realized that if he was ever going to be great, it would never be with Pete as his coach. Never again anyway.

    Because Pete turtles up in the playoffs. And is easy to anticipate and tactically overcome.

    So if Wilson does not want the legacy of being a playoff loser, and 'only was good in the playoffs with the LOB' then he has to leave Pete behind.

    Now you know why this is happening.

    Wilson talks about his legacy all the time. And Pete is destroying it more with each year.

    I agree, my only counter would be why not go off and spread your wings after the first "new" contract? He knows how Pete likes to play. He could've demanded this then? Maybe he did, but I doubt it. His agent would've leaked this stuff out back then instead of the NY stuff. He probably knows this was the perfect situation for him to start his career. If he's always wanted to be the greatest ever in the football fans eyes, he had to know at some point he would probably have to be in an offense that slings it around a lot or at least had that reputation whether they actual did or not. Is Russell just now figuring all of this out? That is what confuses me and makes me think that this all really started when Mahomes was anointed the next torch bearer of the NFL QB legacy. I think that really bothers him and maybe to a lessor extent Lamar, but he's not a real threat in that conversation. Aaron came before Russ, so I don't think that eats at him much. I don't blame Russell for that. He's been short changed quite a bit in the National media compared to other QBs that haven't done what he has.
    Russell has been bad in the playoffs. He's engineered some near comebacks, but he's been bad more so than good. And if he is the QB he thinks he is, why hasn't taken control on the field by audibling or vetoing plays? What's he afraid of, getting benched for Geno?
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:54 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:hinton,

    Your answer is why Wilson is 100% gone.

    Because during the SB, when Wilson came up - people pointed this out. Surely Wilson heard this and got to thinking about his legacy. He realized that if he was ever going to be great, it would never be with Pete as his coach. Never again anyway.

    Because Pete turtles up in the playoffs. And is easy to anticipate and tactically overcome.

    So if Wilson does not want the legacy of being a playoff loser, and 'only was good in the playoffs with the LOB' then he has to leave Pete behind.

    Now you know why this is happening.

    Wilson talks about his legacy all the time. And Pete is destroying it more with each year.


    This would be true if Carroll hadn't given evidence that he is willing to let Russ have more control.

    - In 2020 he let Russ cook.
    - After the season he essentially let Russ choose the new OC.

    Remember, Carroll only put the clamps on the O after Wilson become a turnover machine. If Russ wants more authority/control/whatever then he also has to earn it.

    I think the Seahawks success in 2021 season and onwards will be on the shoulders of Russ and Shane Waldren - especially if JS makes some strong moves with the O-line. As long as RW/SW don't continually lose the turnover battle it looks like Carroll is handing them the keys.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:57 pm
  • I was ready to cut ties with Carroll 3 years ago. A team has to have ultimate talent for his philosophy to work and I feel he is pretty bad game day coach and is at a disadvantage to other coaches when it comes down to the X's and O's. The Hawks will never sniff another Super Bowl with Carroll as the head coach.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:05 pm
  • hinton wrote:
    Remember, Carroll only put the clamps on the O after Wilson become a turnover machine. If Russ wants more authority/control/whatever then he also has to earn it.


    The problem with this is that the turnovers started coming when defenses figured out the long ball with the cover 2 scheme but the game plan never changed. Schotty took the fall for it, but it was never fixed throughout the second half of the season.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:18 pm
  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    hinton wrote:
    Remember, Carroll only put the clamps on the O after Wilson become a turnover machine. If Russ wants more authority/control/whatever then he also has to earn it.


    The problem with this is that the turnovers started coming when defenses figured out the long ball with the cover 2 scheme but the game plan never changed. Schotty took the fall for it, but it was never fixed throughout the second half of the season.


    So the game plan never changed, but at the same time Carroll neutered the O? It can't be both

    Ultimately it looks like Schotty either:
    1. Didn't have a plan B once D's figured us out
    2. Russ wouldn't or couldn't follow plan B.

    The signs suggest it was point 1.

    So, what would you suggest we do next? Carroll letting Schotty go and allowing Russ pick the new OC seems QB-friendly to me.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:24 pm
  • Pete has a worse win percentage in the playoffs than 15 other head coaches since 2015. Realistically he only has two wins against teams that had crippled QBs. His third win came on a missed field goal at the final minutes, this field goal was a missed 27 yard field goal at the very end of the game. By the way, Seattle hired that guy to be our kicker... No other head coach has lost as much as Carroll in the playoffs since 2015. We don't have a quality win on our resume since 2014 in the postseason.

    In that time period we've had teams such as the 2015 Seahawks that ranked number 1 in DVOA. Along with this we had the 4th ranked offense overall. Our offense was number 3 in rushing yards, and our QB was a contender for MVP honors. Along with this we had the number one ranked defense in the entire NFL.

    Pete Carroll is good at running a program but his philosophies are a relic of the past and his in game coaching is atrocious. His idea of an offense is a boat anchor on the neck of this team. He's exactly who we needed when we hired him, but at this point he's done all he's ever going to do as a Seahawk. Along with the things i mentioned, he lost control of his team in 2017, and now he's starting to lose control again.

    It's time we thank Carroll for what he's done and moved on.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:28 pm
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Cyrus12 wrote:You choose..Pete or Russ...one will go. Maybe not this offseason but probably next.

    A great QB can make a mediocre coach look good.

    A great coach cannot make a mediocre QB look good.

    Wilson is the one you keep happy.

    Franchise QBs, especially generational talent, do not come around often.

    Carroll can be replaced before Wilson can be replaced.

    And it’s not even close.

    If Jody Allen has learned anything from Paul, she needs to step in at some point and cannot be afraid to make a franchise changing decision. If she doesn’t want too, she can hand the keys to me and I will gladly do so.


    Don't know where you get that a good coach can't make a mediocre qb look good. Or for that matter, a good qb look great. That's what good coaches do. And the hawks have done it a ton, if mostly on defense.

    Sometimes they are called system qbs. One that isn't necessarily successful as result of his overwhelming individual talent, but rather excels because of the position he is placed in and what he is asked to do within it.

    Example? Rich Gannon was at best a stop gap journeyman until he reached Jon Gruden. For the few years toward the end if his career, gruden put him in a spot to excel and connected with him the way no one had before. The result? The guy put up beyond great numbers in a truly prolific passing attack.

    Beyond that, there are the nuance of just great leadership and getting the most out of people whrn others might fail. It abiut how a player is taught, and how his physical and mental state are managed.

    Recent example? Frank Reich made Carson Wentz look like the second coming. Since his departure, he's been a completely shell of himself. And it's not as though his skills have declined. Some of it is a psychological disconnect, and some of it is x's and o's. Both of which a great coach can help a good wb to overcome.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:38 pm
  • Yes, I support Pete.

    I think Wilson talks about legacy because he has people in his ear. He still seems like a team guy, but over the past couple of years he has become more focused on his "brand." Building wealth, creating a GQ trend setting appearance and making red carpet appearances. Feels like he his focus has turned from super bowls to seeking pop star status. I get it. His wife is in that world. He wants to top of the mountain. He's entitled to do what he wants, but I have to wonder - what happened to the "whatever it takes" football guy? And how will his teammates respond when the drills and meetings start?
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:40 pm
  • keasley45 wrote:
    TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Cyrus12 wrote:You choose..Pete or Russ...one will go. Maybe not this offseason but probably next.

    A great QB can make a mediocre coach look good.

    A great coach cannot make a mediocre QB look good.

    Wilson is the one you keep happy.

    Franchise QBs, especially generational talent, do not come around often.

    Carroll can be replaced before Wilson can be replaced.

    And it’s not even close.

    If Jody Allen has learned anything from Paul, she needs to step in at some point and cannot be afraid to make a franchise changing decision. If she doesn’t want too, she can hand the keys to me and I will gladly do so.


    Don't know where you get that a good coach can't make a mediocre qb look good. Or for that matter, a good qb look great. That's what good coaches do. And the hawks have done it a ton, if mostly on defense.

    Sometimes they are called system qbs. One that isn't necessarily successful as result of his overwhelming individual talent, but rather excels because of the position he is placed in and what he is asked to do within it.

    Example? Rich Gannon was at best a stop gap journeyman until he reached Jon Gruden. For the few years toward the end if his career, gruden put him in a spot to excel and connected with him the way no one had before. The result? The guy put up beyond great numbers in a truly prolific passing attack.

    Beyond that, there are the nuance of just great leadership and getting the most out of people whrn others might fail. It abiut how a player is taught, and how his physical and mental state are managed.

    Recent example? Frank Reich made Carson Wentz look like the second coming. Since his departure, he's been a completely shell of himself. And it's not as though his skills have declined. Some of it is a psychological disconnect, and some of it is x's and o's. Both of which a great coach can help a good wb to overcome.

    I'd put Goff and McVay in that category as well.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 4:48 pm
  • Also, Sooper Bowl winning QB Brad Johnson had some good years, but was never touted as anything other than okay. One might compare him to Kirk Cousins. Brad was another John Gruden coached up dude.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:02 pm
  • Welshers wrote:Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

    Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.


    I am completely with you and suspect many here don't remember how much the team sucked at times before Pete got here. It is well worth observing that we all should be careful for what we wish for as that may result in a very unfortunate bad outcome. Looking back at the history of the team since inception and I have been a fan that long this period of Pete ball is the best in the history of the team. The time will come when it will be time for Pete to go but it sure isn't now or close to yet in my view.

    There is no way I buy all this 'Pete Ball' negativity and the allegation that he isn't tuned into to winning in a modern NFL. Tthe team only won 12-games this last season and their division which is the toughest division in the NFL at present. Pete is the winningest coach the team has ever had and has taken the team to the playoffs more often than any other coach the team has ever had. I do as well believe he is not without fault but is quick to attempt to fix areas where he is weak and even if others don't think so. The owner and management council are far from thinking it's time to get rid of Pete.

    As well I think Wilson is undoubtedly a superstar QB and the best the team has ever had. Pete has coached up Wilson and Wilson wants more and who can blame him. I truly believe this supposed dissatisfaction is being blown out of proportion to it's genuine seriousness and RW will be a Hawk for a very long time. RW got input at his request into his new OC and that appears to be a progressive choice. The Line will need to be helped as Wilson ages and will run less and that will happen too. The team doesn't have Cable here screwing up the choices any longer.

    I expect this period of disenchantment will pass and we will see an interesting offseason which may bring more than few surprises.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:28 pm
  • jammerhawk wrote:As well I think Wilson is undoubtedly a superstar QB and the best the team has ever had. Pete has coached up Wilson and Wilson wants more and who can blame him. I truly believe this supposed dissatisfaction is being blown out of proportion to it's genuine seriousness... I expect this period of disenchantment will pass and we will see an interesting offseason which may bring more than few surprises.



    Well stated. :irishdrinkers:
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:30 pm
  • Welshers wrote:Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

    Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.


    Good points but prior to Russ, Pete's teams were 7-9 both seasons. Pete didn't have a winning team until Russ took over as Seahawk QB. If JS hadn't drafted Wilson (or convinced PC to agree to draft Wilson), then probably would have been mediocre with Flynn/T. Jackson at QB.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:53 pm
  • hawkfan68 wrote:
    Welshers wrote:Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

    Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.


    Good points but prior to Russ, Pete's teams were 7-9 both seasons. Pete didn't have a winning team until Russ took over as Seahawk QB. If JS hadn't drafted Wilson (or convinced PC to agree to draft Wilson), then probably would have been mediocre with Flynn/T. Jackson at QB.

    Pete was building the team those first two seasons. Are you saying the D was as good in those seasons as the SB season? Don't forget we beat the defending champ Saints, with the famous Beast Mode run in the playoffs, with Hasselback at QB. Great moment! I'm not saying Russ is terrible at all, he is a HoF guy no doubt about it. But the idea that he carried Carroll to a SB is overblown. The D and running game on that team made more of an impact then RW did. Things are very different now.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:31 pm
  • People, people, Carroll was not just a product of Russell Wilson in his early years. Carroll did afterall draft him and give him an opportunity most coaches wouldn't have given a 3rd round rookie QB that is approximately 5'10. His drafting from 2010 to 2012 may go down as one of the best three draft classes in NFL history.

    In 2010 alone we drafted Russell Okung, Earl Thomas, Golden Tate, and Kam Chancellor. Half of the class went to one probowl and in Thomas's case he went to multiple all-pros.

    In 2011 we drafted K.J Wright and Richard Sherman, a probowler and an all pro player. Sherman quite possibly being the best CB of the 2010s and a man well on his way to the HOF. Malcolm Smith was also a huge contributor. We also got another probowler as a UDFA in Baldwin.

    In 2012 we drafted Bruce Irvine, Bobby Wagner, Russell Wilson, and Jeremy Lane, Wagner and Wilson being on trajectories to being in the HOF.

    That is 9 pro bowlers in three drafts, 3 multi year all-pros in Sherman, Thomas and Wagner, three potential HOFers in Bobby Wagner, Russell Wilson and Richard Sherman, and distant possibility of a fourth in Earl Thomas.

    This wouldn't have happened without Carroll. When Carroll came in here he had a unique perspective. He saw that big corners were undervalued and brought in guys like Browner, Sherman, and got guys like Maxwell to play above their pay grade. We brought these guys in for pennies on the dollar. Carroll created a new trend with big corners that swept the NFL. The way he used Chancellor was also unique, and it paved the way for guys like Adams. People thought Carroll was mad, but he had an innovative vision on defense. He built a culture that not even he could replicate on the Seahawks to this day. He created an us vs. them mentality, and he got all of his players to buy in. It was almost like an NCAA team in the NFL. It was magical.

    Unfortunately after the Super Bowl in 2014 things changed. His players soured on him and the team he built begun to unravel. The chinks in the armor started showing, and we've spiraled into irrelevance in the postseason. That being said, for all of Carroll's problems in the past, without him we wouldn't have a ring or the many magical moments that we shared in from 2010-2014. He had a vision that no one else had, and for that he needs to be commended. I know people are frustrated by him now, including myself, that being said lets not rewrite history here. Carroll WAS responsible for our championship.

    Now, as today I think he's lost his edge. People have adopted his systems, people went after his previously untapped pool of players. Rule changes occurred in response to the 2013 Seahawks that changed how defenders are allowed to play. Our star players, especially the QB needed to get paid. Carroll has done a poor job adopting to all of these changes. It's like Mike Holmgren said, he knew when it was time to quite coaching. He no longer was keeping up with the game. I think Pete Carroll is at that point right now in his career. In the NFL it is adapt or die, it's called the "Not for Long League" for a reason. Carroll has not done a great job adopting the the circumstances thrown at him.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:05 pm
  • John63 wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    Welshers wrote:Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

    Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.

    I most certainly do not dislike Pete; there is a lot of things that he does that get's ignored or glossed over, things like going after, and bringing in Marshawn Lynch, to which turned out to be a great help to Wilson's game.
    Pete isn't stupid, nor does he dislike Russ, he DOES KNOW that without a decent/good/great Run game, it's all dumped right back on his QB's lap, hence, the REASON for his Push for yet another & a more creative O.C. Third one obtained FOR Russell Wilson.
    All this crap about them being Yes Men is just that...CRAP.
    There's no doubt that we need to upgrade the O-Line, none whatsoever, but isn't Solari still working with some of Cable's players?, didn't they go after Brown?, Lewis?, & a couple other standouts?
    Too many are calling out Pete, without having any of the moxie, or the credentials to do so.
    John needs to get way more creative, & come up with a bunch of money (maybe out his arse) to find some all Pro road graders who can block for the run game AND also Pass Protect.



    ahh Lynch was here before Wilson. He had basically the same team that won the SB in 2011 before WIlson.


    Indeed Lynch was already on the roster, but, it came down to what he and Wilson had together, that kept Defenses from just teeing off on Russ, YES, it was indeed Wilson's 500 ADDED yards of running that put it all over the top, but there;s no doubt that Lynch was an integral part of that successful formula.
    Wilson needs an upgrade on his O-Line, but he also needs an upgrade in the Run Game to be successful, Defenses will make you one dimensional without it.
    The reason Schottenheimer was sent packing, was because he couldn't come up with a scheme that kept Defenses guessing.....Metcalf "Defenses just figured us out", meaning they'd already seen every song & dance orchestrated by Schotts.
    Just like the Buc's Defense in the SB, Mahomes wasn't going to do anything they hadn't already seen & prepared for.
    Pete isn't trying to reinvent the wheel, but he is trying to re-bolster what it takes to help his Quarterback, I don't see this as an "Either -Or", I see it as an AND.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Fri Feb 12, 2021 7:22 pm
  • knownone wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Pete is top tier in terms of regular season wins.

    Maybe.

    Since the SB loss, he is actually fairly poor in the playoffs.

    I don't think you can use the term 'Pete is a top tier coach' anymore. He WAS a top tier coach but the weaknesses are starting to outweigh the positives now.

    By that logic, Russell is not a top tier QB. Kind of a silly barometer, no?


    "Kind of a silly Barometer" ..........Yes!
    We got the Negative already, now it's time to hook up to the Positive, & RECHARGE!!! :irishdrinkers:
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:20 am
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    knownone wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Pete is top tier in terms of regular season wins.

    Maybe.

    Since the SB loss, he is actually fairly poor in the playoffs.

    I don't think you can use the term 'Pete is a top tier coach' anymore. He WAS a top tier coach but the weaknesses are starting to outweigh the positives now.

    By that logic, Russell is not a top tier QB. Kind of a silly barometer, no?


    "Kind of a silly Barometer" ..........Yes!
    We got the Negative already, now it's time to hook up to the Positive, & RECHARGE!!! :irishdrinkers:

    I'm all on board for positivity but right now truly feels like a turning point for the org... and it could turn either way
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:50 am
  • When Carroll once stated a few seasons back that " you can't win a game in the 1st quarter ' or words close to that ,I lost hope of another SB with him at the helm . That statement showed a HC that didn't feel the need to play all out 100% for 4 quarters . And the Hawks have been coached and played with that exact mind set and the results have been evident in post season for several years . IMO
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:00 am
  • Pete lost the plot a long time ago. He needs to go.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:07 am
  • I go from hating him to loving him depending on the day. I do hope he changes his ways a little and we win a few more super bowls with him.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:19 pm
  • I would think the way the season turned out would be a strong vindication of Pete’s approach.

    Once teams took away the deep shots and played zone underneath his OC adjusted to scheme short routes that his QB couldn’t execute, instead of ramping up the rushing attempts (admittedly with Carson dinged up rushing wasn’t as attractive). I think Pete sat down with schotty and said okay let’s agree on one thing, our passing offense must have more balance or it cannot operate. If schotty voiced an opinion that we could pads our way out of it, that would have been the deal breaker that led to the firing.

    Watching Tampa bays offense not have to carry the day because of good defense and excellent rushing would, I’m sure, do nothing to dissuade Pete either. I still am trying to figure out why KC didn’t run the ball early before they were behind when they knew the edges were compromised.

    I think Pete can be blamed for not valuing OL highly enough given the limitations of the QB throwing short and Pete’s own preference to want to run the ball, but I’m not seeing this year as disproving his approach. He needs to get the D and run game back.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:32 pm
  • If it’s a choice between a dynamic and historically clutch quarterback no one can predict and has years left in the tank...

    versus a completely undynamic head coach who blows it in critical moments and is vanilla, completely predictable and dinosaur old...

    it’s not really a choice.
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Re: Does anyone else still support Pete?
Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:15 pm
  • Pete lost me after "The Play" and the subsequent lack of accountability.
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