Does anyone else still support Pete?

Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.

You choose..Pete or Russ...one will go. Maybe not this offseason but probably next.

If Pete can't adjust his gameplan to get the most out of his star players, especially if his stubbornness drives a HoF QB out of town, he should go.

Russ didn't win that SB, but he was a big part of getting there, and Pete has not shown any sign he is able to draft with the precision he did in the first few years when he had recruited all that college talent for USC.

If Russ goes, we fall into mediocrity, and Pete will leave in shame in the end.

Cyrus12":119wyjka said:

You choose..Pete or Russ...one will go. Maybe not this offseason but probably next.

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A great QB can make a mediocre coach look good.

A great coach cannot make a mediocre QB look good.

Wilson is the one you keep happy.

Franchise QBs, especially generational talent, do not come around often.

Carroll can be replaced before Wilson can be replaced.

And it’s not even close.

If Jody Allen has learned anything from Paul, she needs to step in at some point and cannot be afraid to make a franchise changing decision. If she doesn’t want too, she can hand the keys to me and I will gladly do so.

pinksheets":1b53hgxi said:

If Pete can't adjust his gameplan to get the most out of his star players, especially if his stubbornness drives a HoF QB out of town, he should go.

Russ didn't win that SB, but he was a big part of getting there, and Pete has not shown any sign he is able to draft with the precision he did in the first few years when he had recruited all that college talent for USC.

If Russ goes, we fall into mediocrity, and Pete will leave in shame in the end.

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Well said. 100% agree.

Welshers":2mjbtdgm said:

Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.

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Well I certainly still support Carroll. I think Russell and co have enticed him away from how he wants to play ball, and as a result in January we still are trying to figure out who we are as a team. I think Carroll’s scheme still work, but was getting fought this year from shotty and Wilson. Schotty is gone, Wilson may be next.

I disagree that Wilson is a generational talent, from a physical standpoint he isn’t. I think Wilson has lost that step or two that made him a truly UNIQUE player in the early 2010’s and it’s screwed up his game. Hell still have stretches where he looks elite like usual, but it won’t be sustained like it was. 17% of your cap to 1 player is hard to build around. How many bowls has Rodgers won despite bein the best QB in the league? Sure it’s kept them relevant and made the owners a bunch of money. But 1 player taking 20% of the cap is prohibitive of a super bowl champion. And, Wilson is definitely no Rodgers.

I side with Pete, run the ball and play D. That’s what’s the bucs just did too. Running opens play action which destroyed KC.
Look we made a switch mid year because Wilson was throwing too many poor passes and forcing things rather than check the ball down. But we still threw it twice as much as we ran it! That’s not a Pete Carroll team, and I don’t think Waldron will either despite the fact Russell may want to throw it every play.

You ride your best horses.

When your best weapons are on offense, you leverage that.

When your best weapons are on defense, you do the same.

Pete's problem is that he only knows how to coach one way. And that way does not match the roster.

So we shifted to a Ty Willinghamesque gameplan, which gives the illusion you are better than you are but is exposed in the playoffs.

Pete is also a wasting asset. Most players are but due to his age he is almost at the end of being valuable regardless of who he coaches.

The hardest thing to find is not an aging coach that gets knocked out of the playoffs regularly. The hardest thing for a franchise to find is an HOF caliber QB in his prime. We have one and to keep our aging coach we are thinking of trading that away? For what? Draft picks that Pete tends to squander anyway?

Welshers":38mfu1wh said:

Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.

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I support Pete %100! When Russ has moved on to another team I’ll be excited about the future of Seahawk football.

Elemas":hxbjcorl said:

pinksheets":hxbjcorl said:

If Pete can't adjust his gameplan to get the most out of his star players, especially if his stubbornness drives a HoF QB out of town, he should go.

Russ didn't win that SB, but he was a big part of getting there, and Pete has not shown any sign he is able to draft with the precision he did in the first few years when he had recruited all that college talent for USC.

If Russ goes, we fall into mediocrity, and Pete will leave in shame in the end.

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Well said. 100% agree.

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At USC I though Pete overused his star players! I think what’s happening is RW isn’t getting the ball to them the right way & not enough.

I don’t support Pete and wish he would retire. A couple years ago in fact. Why?

1. Drafting. Yes some blame JS but he is just a figurehead in the draft room. PCs extremely poor drafting has left the team hollow of good players on reasonable contracts forcing more expensive options being used.

2. Free agent signings. I started a thread on good free agent signings and the only name to come up was a kicker. It’s always old tired vets with good names (Olsen/zingy Ansah) our unaccomplished players with potential that fail at a pretty high rate.

3. Holding on to BAD assistants . Bevel, Cable, and, lest we forget KNJ who should also be on the scrap heap.

4. Playoff Failures - 3 sad wins in 6 postseasons. A Super Bowl buys a coach some time to have some failures but PC has used those up and more. We are not a Super Bowl caliber team no matter how many times we get to the playoffs and that is on PC.

5. No adapting. PCs philosophy of we won’t adapt to you we will make you adapt to us doesn’t work when we aren’t nearly as talented as the other tea.

6. Offensive Line. Some of here have been yelling about this for years and they just refuse to fix it.

7. Control Issues. Just won’t let the assistants do what the assistants are hired to do. We will likely look the same on offense as we have for 6 years unless the power play by RW works.

I am grateful for a Super Bowl win and another Super Bowl appearance. Name a street after him, give him a gold watch he needs help lifting and give him some empty bankers boxes so he can clear out his office.

Yeah, he's fine. I wouldn't fire him or anything, but I wouldn't be too upset if he decided to retire either. He CAN win another championship, I'm just less confident of that than I once was.

Welshers":20vc8evd said:

Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.

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Problem is you just did disrespect Wilson, You basically said any QB could have led that team to the SB. Which is factually wrong, and obviously you forget the 500+ yards rushing, or the 5+ 4th qytr/ot comeback wins making plays that few QBs could make. It was not all Wilson, but he was very very important part of it. Also keep in mind he as 2 other Qbs before Wilson, and he has been a HC before and failed.

Welshers":21u68qyq said:

Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.

Click to expand...

I most certainly do not dislike Pete; there is a lot of things that he does that get's ignored or glossed over, things like going after, and bringing in Marshawn Lynch, to which turned out to be a great help to Wilson's game.
Pete isn't stupid, nor does he dislike Russ, he DOES KNOW that without a decent/good/great Run game, it's all dumped right back on his QB's lap, hence, the REASON for his Push for yet another & a more creative O.C. Third one obtained FOR Russell Wilson.
All this crap about them being Yes Men is just that...CRAP.
There's no doubt that we need to upgrade the O-Line, none whatsoever, but isn't Solari still working with some of Cable's players?, didn't they go after Brown?, Lewis?, & a couple other standouts?
Too many are calling out Pete, without having any of the moxie, or the credentials to do so.
John needs to get way more creative, & come up with a bunch of money (maybe out his arse) to find some all Pro road graders who can block for the run game AND also Pass Protect.

Everyone needs remember PC has been a HC before, and also was here 2 years before Wilson. His ...."system" did not do much till he got Wilson. In addition, lets be real his draft shave not been great since his 3rd year. Why...because he came in form college and new all those players well. Now he does not.

I am not saying PC system cannot work, but it takes alot and very specific things to make it work

He needs a top 3 defense
he needs a top 3 physical RB
He needs a play, making QB that can run and make something out of nothing,

There is very little room for error in his system as most often you go into the 4th qtr with a small lead or a small deficit.

It is very very tough to put all that together, and his unwillingness to adapt means there is no other way.

So do I support PC yes and no. He is our coach there for I support him. Wilson is our QB there for I support him. If the question is if only 1 can stay who would I pick its Wilson. Why Because it is harder to find a great QB then a great Coach Because the needed requirements for his system to work are very very hard to put together.

scutterhawk":2ocrtjts said:

Welshers":2ocrtjts said:

Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.

Click to expand...

I most certainly do not dislike Pete; there is a lot of things that he does that get's ignored or glossed over, things like going after, and bringing in Marshawn Lynch, to which turned out to be a great help to Wilson's game.
Pete isn't stupid, nor does he dislike Russ, he DOES KNOW that without a decent/good/great Run game, it's all dumped right back on his QB's lap, hence, the REASON for his Push for yet another & a more creative O.C. Third one obtained FOR Russell Wilson.
All this crap about them being Yes Men is just that...CRAP.
There's no doubt that we need to upgrade the O-Line, none whatsoever, but isn't Solari still working with some of Cable's players?, didn't they go after Brown?, Lewis?, & a couple other standouts?
Too many are calling out Pete, without having any of the moxie, or the credentials to do so.
John needs to get way more creative, & come up with a bunch of money (maybe out his arse) to find some all Pro road graders who can block for the run game AND also Pass Protect.

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ahh Lynch was here before Wilson. He had basically the same team that won the SB in 2011 before WIlson.

John63":350btuf6 said:

Welshers":350btuf6 said:

Reading this board it feels like I am one of the only ones who is still standing by Pete. Is there anyone else who doesn't want him gone? He's given us the best stretch of football in the history of this franchise. People are acting like he can't win without Russ. I mean this without any disrespect to Russ, but we won the SB well before he was in HoF form. Russ in no way carried Pete to that SB. We have steadily been winning more games each of the last four seasons: 9, 10, 11, and then 12 this year. Just because we haven't had the post season results doesn't mean it's time to get rid of Pete.

Anyway, whether people like it or not I am afraid they will have to get used to Pete for at least another year. Jody Allen is not going to get rid of him and he basically runs the organization at this point.

Click to expand...

Problem is you just did disrespect Wilson, You basically said any QB could have led that team to the SB. Which is factually wrong, and obviously you forget the 500+ yards rushing, or the 5+ 4th qytr/ot comeback wins making plays that few QBs could make. It was not all Wilson, but he was very very important part of it. Also keep in mind he as 2 other Qbs before Wilson, and he has been a HC before and failed.

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All I said was that we won the SB before he was in HoF form. That's true. He didn't carry Pete that year. I never said he wasn't great or a big part of us winning it.

Elemas":3vr8a9c7 said:

pinksheets":3vr8a9c7 said:

If Pete can't adjust his gameplan to get the most out of his star players, especially if his stubbornness drives a HoF QB out of town, he should go.

Russ didn't win that SB, but he was a big part of getting there, and Pete has not shown any sign he is able to draft with the precision he did in the first few years when he had recruited all that college talent for USC.

If Russ goes, we fall into mediocrity, and Pete will leave in shame in the end.

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Well said. 100% agree.

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Maybe, just maybe Pete knows Wilsons strengths and weaknesses better than Russ knows himself.

Carroll let Russ cook until he became a turnover machine. He's also just given the green light to an OC that is essentially Russ' choice. He's given a lot of control and power to Russ lately.

I think we need both Carroll and Russ, and I hope they're both here for the rest of their careers. When you have a top tier coach, a top tier GM, and a top tier QB they all need to get on the same page, and it should be about winning, not power/legacy/stats.

However, Russ is making a lot of noise lately for a player who hasn't progressed much over the last few years, despite the talent around him improving (especially weapons). I'm hoping he puts in the hours with the new OC and his teammates this season to work on his short/intermediate passing game, and with his O-line at moving the pocket.

I think the pre 2019 Russ would have found a way to win the Giants game and probably the Rams wildcard game. Pete needs to improve the D, JS needs to improve the O-line and RB depth, and Russ needs to improve his game.

It's a "what have you done for me lately" league. I am good with Pete being the coach next year. Despite losing in the first round of the playoffs, he has led the team on a series of winning seasons. The team has improved since missing the playoffs in 2017. That being said, winning seasons that don't lead to deep playoff runs are discouraging. The big trophy and shiny rings are the goal. Seahawks haven't made it past the divisional round of the playoffs since 2014. I get the feeling that this is a big change year. Controversies can promote positive change and growth just as much as devastation. One more year, Pete.

hinton":2oj8fouc said:

Elemas":2oj8fouc said:

pinksheets":2oj8fouc said:

If Pete can't adjust his gameplan to get the most out of his star players, especially if his stubbornness drives a HoF QB out of town, he should go.

Russ didn't win that SB, but he was a big part of getting there, and Pete has not shown any sign he is able to draft with the precision he did in the first few years when he had recruited all that college talent for USC.

If Russ goes, we fall into mediocrity, and Pete will leave in shame in the end.

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Well said. 100% agree.

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Maybe, just maybe Pete knows Wilsons strengths and weaknesses better than Russ knows himself.

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That might be true, and if Pete believes Russ just can't play at that level to lead them to a Lombardi as a gunslinger, and that we're better off letting him walk away if he cant live playing on a leash, then he should let him go.

That choice would define Pete's legacy, though. If Russ leaves and just kills it consistently for another team, Pete will be remembered as the guy who didn't know what he had and made the fans in Seattle pay for it by losing the most important player in franchise history.

I'm sort of on both sides of this issue. On the one hand, I think Russell is an elite QB, and they should do everything to make things easier on him. On the other, I think Pete is one of the greatest coaches of all time, and I have zero doubt that he would be successful without Wilson.

The problem I see is the asymmetrical distribution of credit and blame. For example, I have yet to wrap my head around the logic that "Pete's conservative offense is holding Russell back," and also "Russell is the only reason Seattle is not a 4 win team." These are two mutually exclusive concepts, in my opinion. You can't think Pete is underutilizing Russ while simultaneously thinking they couldn't win with a lesser QB than Russ. It's nonsense.

A more rational approach, with symmetrical distribution, would be to acknowledge that Seattle is better with Russell than without him. The same logic then also applies to Pete. We can't assume that a new coach would be better than Pete just because it's not Pete.

Ultimately, this is a "my dad could beat your dad" situation where each side of the equation has already made up their mind and is unwilling to consider the possibility that they are wrong. In this case, all other things equal, the only reason you'd favor keeping Russ over Pete is because of age. Pete's future is less certain than Russell's. Without that consideration, their accomplishments are functionally inseparable. We cannot assume that one is better without the other because we have no evidence to support that conclusion, just opinions.