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Silence Is Deafening

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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:33 pm
  • In attempting to reconcile from season ending disappointment, I’ve been visiting here more than usual and appreciate the many contributions by everyone.

    Unlike some posters, I’m neither a fervent Russ believer or a hater. His strengths and weaknesses have already been covered at length but what remains are issues of direction and chemistry.

    A seemingly innocuous example of a shift in direction would be this interview after the NFC Championship game:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7Np8qwRWBg

    It seems trivial, but Russ’s appearance caught my attention. Where was the Championship T-shirt? He was representing the Seahawks in a moment of victory but he is wearing a Tinseltown Lakers jersey. It gave me the impression that he was setting himself apart from being a Seahawk. It wasn’t a TEAM look.

    Most people understand wanting to grow within your job - no matter the profession. At first, Russ took on the team player role as dictated by Pete and John’s vision. However his outlook changed as he became more experienced and refined his goals but there’s now a clash with Pete’s philosophy. They’ve hit an impasse and the approach to a resolution is just as divided: Russ favoring a heightened media response and management going silent.

    No matter, it’s still a contractual job for Russ and he knew the stipulations. Management seems to be making some effort to appease him but just because you want to restructure your employment doesn’t mean you can. Russ may not be going anywhere as he may be called upon to fulfill his obligation. The same with Pete.

    I don't know what will happen but will attempt to roll with it.

    I do know that I'm tired of the media drama.
    Last edited by BleuEyedHawk on Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:31 pm
  • knownone wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    knownone wrote:I could not agree more. The more I've learned about Russell's comments and the staging of the events leading up to them, the more I see why the front office would be upset. Russell is making the narrative entirely about him while subversively attacking the legacy and credibility of the organization. This has been a model franchise since Allen took over. Pete Carroll is one of the greatest coaches of all time. John Schneider is among the most respected and successful GM's in the NFL. Yet, Russ basically went on live television and talked as if he'd been in Detroit the past 10 years.

    Russ always talks about wanting to be like Jeter, but it's starting to look like his legacy in Seattle could end up looking like Arod.

    There are 15 Head Coaches that have a better playoff record than Pete Carroll since our last Super Bowl win, 15. Nobody has lost more playoff games in that time period than Pete Carroll. We keep losing because of the same reasons as well. Running conservative schemes that allow the other team to run up the score. When we finally let the reigns loose on Wilson we have too big of a deficit to overcome. It's been the story since 2015.

    Sorry, I'll definitely respond to the rest of your post in-depth (later today). But you hit me with a fascinating analysis of Pete being 15th in payoff record since our last Superbowl, and I had to dig in. Feel free to let me know if I missed any major coaches. My brain does not work as well as it used to, but I think I've got most of them.

    Wins(W) - Loss(L) - Total Games(G) - Appearances(A) - Potential Appearances (PA)

    Pete Carroll: 3-5-8-5-6
    Sean Payton: 3-4-7-4-6
    Sean McVay: 3-3-6-3-4
    Andy Reid: 7-5-12-6-6
    Mike Tomlin: 3-4-7-4-6
    John Harbaugh: 1-3-4-3-6
    Doug Pederson: 4-2-6-3-5
    Kyle Shanahan: 2-1-3-1-4
    Matt Lefluer: 2-2-4-2-2
    Mike Zimmer: 2-2-4-3-6
    Bill Belichick: 9-3-12-5-6
    Sean McDermott: 2-3-5-3-4
    Bruce Arians: 5-1-6-2-5
    Mike Vrabel: 2-2-4-2-3

    One obvious thing that stands out is that making the playoffs dramatically impacts your overall record. So while Pete has a worse % than many coaches, he's also played in the 3rd most games during that stretch. Furthermore, the two guys ahead of him have played in more home games.

    Playoff home games: W/L
    Carroll: 3/1
    Belichick: 5/1
    Reid: 5/4

    Here's where things get interesting. If we take Brady out of the mix and adjust for teams with QBs not on rookie contracts, your top 5 coaches' rankings look like this.

    Playoffs record w/o TB12 and QBs on rookie contracts: W/L/A

    Pete Carroll: 3/5/5
    Mike Tomlin: 3/4/4
    Sean Payton: 3/4/4
    Mike Zimmer: 2/2/3
    Matt Lefleur: 2/2/2

    In conclusion, when you ignore the GOAT and adjust for rookie contracts, all other things being equal, Pete Carroll is the most consistent coach in the league in terms of making the playoffs and winning in them. If you include Brady he's 3rd.

    Carroll's home wins came largely came during his first years back in in the NFL. Since 2015 he's batting .500 and he just lost a home game to an injured Jared Goff. His other home game since 2015 was against the Detroit Lions, a another case of a QB playing with an injured throwing arm, among other injuries.

    Furthermore Carroll realistically should have two wins. Blair Walsh missed a 27 yard field goal that would have won the Vikings the game in the final seconds. His record could very well be 2/6. Your numbers only reinforced my assertion, he has a worse win percentage, and has lost more playoff games than any of those coaches on the list except for John Harbaugh -- which is not a coach I included in my list of 15. Where is the consistency that you're talking about? Another thing that should also be mentioned is that Sean Payton, Matt Lefleur, Bill Belichick, Andy Reid, Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McDermott, Mike Tomlin, Kubiak, Arians, Quinn and more have all been to a NFC/AFC championship or Super Bowl since 2015.

    Your numbers are doing nothing more than reinforcing my point. Carroll has lost more games than any of those coaches and has one of the worst records of the bunch next to John Harbaugh. If we look at those wins the picture becomes more bleak. Matt Stafford with an injured throwing arm, and sprained ankle, a Detroit Lions team that backed into the playoffs. A lucky missed 27 field goal at the end of regulation. A win against an Eagles team that barely made the playoffs and was fielding a 40 year something McCown, who also got injured during the course of the game. We don't have a single quality playoff win on our resume since 2015.

    If you're trying to prove Carroll's consistency in the playoffs, you didn't do a good job. If anything you shown that he consistently loses.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:26 pm
  • Yup. Fire the most successful coach in franchise history. Get rid of our HOF QB too.

    Do most of you understand what happened between 1976 and now?

    It was pure torture most years.

    12 win seasons are not normal.

    Recent Seahawks fans are a bunch of spoiled brats.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:17 pm
  • misfit wrote:Imagine the nerve of a qb that has been sacked more times in 9 seasons that any qb in NFL history to actually say that he doesn't like getting sacked that much.

    Like who does he think he is. Cant he just shut up and play football?!?


    /thread
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:21 pm
  • acer1240 wrote:Yup. Fire the most successful coach in franchise history. Get rid of our HOF QB too.

    Do most of you understand what happened between 1976 and now?

    It was pure torture most years.

    12 win seasons are not normal.

    Recent Seahawks fans are a bunch of spoiled brats.



    So the fans should just be content with good regular seasons, early playoff exits, and never moving forward? How dare some of us wanting more.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:50 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:You fight like you train.

    We pushed a stupid run first philosophy for half the year. We did the bare minimum needed to be effective during the games we won. And sure it worked.

    But then the REAL games start, the games your team needs to have the QB (your best offensive asset) carry the team.

    And you haven't done this enough (as a team) to be effective at it under fire.

    Changing your gameplan literally 1 game into the playoffs is not a wise strategy. Because you need to become adept at it, learn how to deal with the pressure, find how to use the slot routes better, etc.

    We gave ourselves one game to figure out how to do an effective passing first offense, after we shut down the Russ Cook stuff that was more taking advantage of disjointed defenses than that same thing. Pete shutting down the offense for half a year, and barely using it even when he did use it ?

    That assured we would be rusty and unsure when we had to use it. Sure enough, that happened.

    The biggest problem with Pete's philosophy is it works in the regular season. It gets you wins. But since it doesn't in the playoffs, you are completely unprepared to play the other way that is required for wins in the playoffs.

    So you spend the whole year honing your skills at executing this gameplan that will not work in the playoffs to knife edge sharpness. And having mastered it, have to do something completely different in the playoffs that most of your people have very little comfort with. Weirdly, that fails regularly for you. Wonder why?

    It doesn't matter if you throw the ball 60 times in the playoff game if you are not adept as a team in executing that kind of gameplan. Pete essentially spends the whole year trying to get this team to the playoffs but setting it up for failure in the same.

    It is better to have a worse regular-season record and better record in the playoffs. Pete has never grasped that.


    C'mon man, the first few games of the 2020 season, Carson wasn't injured, and neither was Hyde, thus, the Run Game helped the Pass game, helped the Run Game helped the Pass Game, and so on and so on...Carson gets bunged up, Hyde gets bunged up, the Pass game get's key'd on, Passes start getting intercepted A LOT...Metcalf says, "Defenses started figuring us out", O-Schemes play right into the hands of the opposing Defenses...Pressure Sack, Pressure, Pick, Pressure, Hit, rinse & repeat.
    I don't fault Wilson for his outside interests, I would too if I figured that I might take a season, OR WORSE YET, a Career ending injury, Hell, only a damned fool wouldn't look out for himself, just ask Kam Chancellor or Cliff Avril if they think Wilson is on a fools errand.
    The Seahawks organization has been negligent in providing a better O-Line for Russ, BUT, they did go & get Brown, & obtained Lewis in last years Draft (right direction)
    The right Schemes DO MATTER, but so does having a healthy RB to keep from being one dimensional, an getting hit, creamed, or lambasted on every other down.
    Maybe Pete needs to put on a few pounds & shed a few years then go out & Pass Block for Wilson....There is no "Magic Bullet"
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:08 pm
  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    acer1240 wrote:Yup. Fire the most successful coach in franchise history. Get rid of our HOF QB too.

    Do most of you understand what happened between 1976 and now?

    It was pure torture most years.

    12 win seasons are not normal.

    Recent Seahawks fans are a bunch of spoiled brats.



    So the fans should just be content with good regular seasons, early playoff exits, and never moving forward? How dare some of us wanting more.

    Seriously dude!?!??
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:28 pm
  • Man, they's a lot of Biting, & sniveling, I'm thinkin' it's time to peruse some other threads here, I love coming here to .NET to hang out with my fellow 12's, Maybe I need some good news for a change. :irishdrinkers:
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:48 pm
  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    acer1240 wrote:Yup. Fire the most successful coach in franchise history. Get rid of our HOF QB too.

    Do most of you understand what happened between 1976 and now?

    It was pure torture most years.

    12 win seasons are not normal.

    Recent Seahawks fans are a bunch of spoiled brats.



    So the fans should just be content with good regular seasons, early playoff exits, and never moving forward? How dare some of us wanting more.


    Be careful what you wish for.

    You, and others like you, want to move on from the only golden era this team has ever had.

    Why?
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:13 pm
  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    acer1240 wrote:Yup. Fire the most successful coach in franchise history. Get rid of our HOF QB too.

    Do most of you understand what happened between 1976 and now?

    It was pure torture most years.

    12 win seasons are not normal.

    Recent Seahawks fans are a bunch of spoiled brats.



    So the fans should just be content with good regular seasons, early playoff exits, and never moving forward? How dare some of us wanting more.


    Careful what you wish for. It would really suck to regress to winning only like one playoff game in four seasons.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:22 pm
  • scutterhawk wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    acer1240 wrote:Yup. Fire the most successful coach in franchise history. Get rid of our HOF QB too.

    Do most of you understand what happened between 1976 and now?

    It was pure torture most years.

    12 win seasons are not normal.

    Recent Seahawks fans are a bunch of spoiled brats.



    So the fans should just be content with good regular seasons, early playoff exits, and never moving forward? How dare some of us wanting more.

    Seriously dude!?!??


    Dead serious. 12 regular season wins are a waste if you cant do anything with them. The Seahawks cant.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:29 pm
  • acer1240 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    acer1240 wrote:Yup. Fire the most successful coach in franchise history. Get rid of our HOF QB too.

    Do most of you understand what happened between 1976 and now?

    It was pure torture most years.

    12 win seasons are not normal.

    Recent Seahawks fans are a bunch of spoiled brats.



    So the fans should just be content with good regular seasons, early playoff exits, and never moving forward? How dare some of us wanting more.


    Be careful what you wish for.

    You, and others like you, want to move on from the only golden era this team has ever had.

    Why?


    Because I would like the team to win another Super Bowl before I die and its evident its not going to happen under Pete Carroll. Why wait around? Lets get the ball moving while the team has a once in a lifetime QB instead of running him out and keeping an old stagnant coach.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:19 pm
  • Wison is going to stay silent to keep the pressure on Pete & Co. to upgrade the O-Line. The Seahawks will cave, they always do.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:52 pm
  • I sure respect many of the varied opinions and information from this board, I don't agree with all of them, but I get where most come from.

    That being said, something that's kind of alway bothered me is the "You're spoiled now crowd". Don't get me wrong, I understand where it comes from. I was around for the lean years as well. However, some of those years I enjoyed very much, especially when I saw teams that I felt would overachieve based on the talent on the field.

    I don't see it as complaining that we won 10, or 11, or 12 games. I see it as frustration that we underachieved and never rose to the level of expectation. Although it sounds ironic, for me, living through the lean years doesn't necessarily make me appreciate the winning seasons more, but it actually makes our inability to reach the top more difficult. Why? Because I understand what a unique and privileged spot we find ourselves in. Russell Wilsons and DK Metcalfs and Bobby Wagners and Clif Avrils and Pete Carrolls etc. don't come around very often. My tenure as a Seahawks fan has made me hypersensitive to the need to take full advantage of the moment, and not squander it.

    An analogy for all you parents out there.

    You have two kids....five years apart in age.

    The first one really, really struggled in Math. Although he didn't have natural math ability, he studied his butt off. He would spend more time on Math than all the rest of his classes combined. After studying all day and all night for his tests, he would go in and on a good day consistently score in the low 80's. He felt good about that and you acknowledged and felt proud of his efforts.

    The second one was like Will Hunting. Math came incredibly easy to him. He was a 1/1000 talent. He had all the potential in the word to consistently be at the top of his class. However, he never studied the right way, never made adjustments to different classes or teachers and refused to accept new concepts as they were introduced to him. However on test days, his sheer natural talent would never let him get less than high 80's.

    High 80's is clearly a higher mark than low 80's, but yet, knowing his potential for greatness, you feel frustrated. When you express your frustration to your son, his reply is...

    "You're so spoiled, my scores are better than my brothers. Do you want to go back to having kids who couldn't get past a 85"?

    I'm not sure I would accept that answer. In the same way as a Seahawk fan, just because I don't want to go back to lower mediocrity doesn't mean I should be content with wasted opportunity. Think about the talent we've fielded for the last 10 years. Think about how special some of those players were. Think about what your answer would have been right after SB48 if someone would have asked you "How many championships will this team win"?

    I understand it's great to have winning seasons consistently, I've enjoyed them. But I'm sorry, I can't buy into the "we used to suck and this is better" when there has been opportunities to be really special. Something tells me Russell Wilson feels the same way.
    Last edited by rjdriver on Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:11 am
  • Aros wrote:
    Not even the GOAT has ANYWHERE NEAR the level of public drive for his brand, like tentacles, breaching multiple media and platforms and product lines.


    Dude What the Hell are you talking about? Not even Brady has gone near the level of public drive for your brand. Russ has gone Hollywood? Are you listening to yourself?

    Brady isn’t even in his prime anymore, he’s near the end of his career and he’s been in more mattress and watch commercials than any other athlete I can think of. He’s pushing his TB12 brand, regiments and cook books. He’s been in the public eye with his super model wife and in GQ and countless other magazines more times than Russell will his entire career.

    Russ has always been the ultimate prototype of what a class act athlete and player on an organization should strive for. Do you forget how many times the dude went to the children’s hospital, made a dream come true for a make a wish kid and you’re all of a sudden labeling him Hollywood because he’s pushing a Cologne brand? Instead of being like most athletes and blowing his money on dumb $h!t like cars and jewelry the guy actually has a brain and he’s investing his money because life goes on after football. He started Goodman Brand with a percentage of proceeds going to charity. He has his own charity. What more does the guy have to do?

    Aros, you’re usually a pretty level headed guy but this was by far the most outrageous things You’ve ever posted. Now the guy FOR ONCE speaks out and grows a set and people are quick to forget all the good he’s done and contributed to not just the organization but the people of Seattle and people are coming up with reasons to label him the villain. He deserves better than what he’s working with in Seattle. Out of touch head coach who lacks accountability across every aspect and no O line.

    Give me a F’ing break
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:17 am
  • rjdriver wrote:I understand it's great to have winning seasons consistently, I've enjoyed them. But I'm sorry, I can't buy into the "we used to suck and this is better" when there has been opportunities to really special. Something tells me Russell Wilson feels the same way.


    I agree completely. Although I have a solid foot on the side of the grass that says "I remember the days of mediocrity and it sucked!" I completely agree that with the talent we've seen in recent years, we should be expecting better. Getting bounced at home in the wild card against a hobbled offensive Rams team was a HUGE blow to our collective egos as fans. Imagine how the team felt?

    Well I suppose with Russ' comments in recent weeks I guess we know.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:26 am
  • BEASTM0DE wrote:
    Aros wrote:Aros, you’re usually a pretty level headed guy but this was by far the most outrageous things You’ve ever posted. Now the guy FOR ONCE speaks out and grows a set and people are quick to forget all the good he’s done and contributed to not just the organization but the people of Seattle and people are coming up with reasons to label him the villain. He deserves better than what he’s working with in Seattle. Out of touch head coach who lacks accountability across every aspect and no O line. Give me a F’ing break


    You really think this is by far one of the most outrageous things I've ever posted? You must be new. Oh wait...11 posts, yep, you're new.

    :P

    I tease, I tease...Your opinion is as worthy as anyone's of course. I am going off of what my eyeballs tell me and what my eyeballs see is a man who seems just as driven to strengthen his brand as he is to succeed on the football field. Maybe that's perfectly okay but what's also perfectly okay is to feel how I feel about the way he is currently presenting himself nationally.

    Make NO mistake, I love Russell Wilson, will ALWAYS love Russell Wilson. Not just because he's the best player we have ever had but because of the man and character he is.

    And that is why I am disappointed in him right now. Not because he wishes to speak freely, but how he's going about it which feels like there's more to the story than any of us know. Team chemistry is VITAL to success in this league and "His Camp" is fracturing that paradigm on profound levels.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:35 am
  • Aros wrote:
    BEASTM0DE wrote:
    Aros wrote:Aros, you’re usually a pretty level headed guy but this was by far the most outrageous things You’ve ever posted. Now the guy FOR ONCE speaks out and grows a set and people are quick to forget all the good he’s done and contributed to not just the organization but the people of Seattle and people are coming up with reasons to label him the villain. He deserves better than what he’s working with in Seattle. Out of touch head coach who lacks accountability across every aspect and no O line. Give me a F’ing break


    You really think this is by far one of the most outrageous things I've ever posted? You must be new. Oh wait...11 posts, yep, you're new.

    :P

    I tease, I tease...Your opinion is as worthy as anyone's of course. I am going off of what my eyeballs tell me and what my eyeballs see is a man who seems just as driven to strengthen his brand as he is to succeed on the football field. Maybe that's perfectly okay but what's also perfectly okay is to feel how I feel about the way he is currently presenting himself nationally.

    Make NO mistake, I love Russell Wilson, will ALWAYS love Russell Wilson. Not just because he's the best player we have ever had but because of the man and character he is.

    And that is why I am disappointed in him right now. Not because he wishes to speak freely, but how he's going about it which feels like there's more to the story than any of us know. Team chemistry is VITAL to success in this league and "His Camp" is fracturing that paradigm on profound levels.


    I respect your opinion. If anything you’re the leader of this forum in my book. But I think your emotions are triggered (as well as many other people) by the fact that this is the FIRST time Russ has every spoken out against the organization. He’s always been a Yes man and a model player for an organization; however, the current direction and formula for this team just isn’t working. At the end of the day, the man is a competitor. He puts in the work during the off season. Him speaking out and him launching a cologne make it easy to label him the villain and overlook everything he has done. He hasn’t gone Hollywood. He’s finally standing up for himself...straight up. Put him in an organization willing to build around him, scheme around him (look at what Harbaugh did when going from Flacco to Lamar) and ultimately listen to him and he will THRIVE. Keep him in a system that clearly is dated with a stubborn coach that refuses to adjust and adapt, play to his strengths and you get the Seattle Seahawks under Pete Carroll.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:33 am
  • Aros wrote:
    BEASTM0DE wrote:
    Aros wrote:Aros, you’re usually a pretty level headed guy but this was by far the most outrageous things You’ve ever posted. Now the guy FOR ONCE speaks out and grows a set and people are quick to forget all the good he’s done and contributed to not just the organization but the people of Seattle and people are coming up with reasons to label him the villain. He deserves better than what he’s working with in Seattle. Out of touch head coach who lacks accountability across every aspect and no O line. Give me a F’ing break


    You really think this is by far one of the most outrageous things I've ever posted? You must be new. Oh wait...11 posts, yep, you're new.

    :P

    I tease, I tease...Your opinion is as worthy as anyone's of course. I am going off of what my eyeballs tell me and what my eyeballs see is a man who seems just as driven to strengthen his brand as he is to succeed on the football field. Maybe that's perfectly okay but what's also perfectly okay is to feel how I feel about the way he is currently presenting himself nationally.

    Make NO mistake, I love Russell Wilson, will ALWAYS love Russell Wilson. Not just because he's the best player we have ever had but because of the man and character he is.

    And that is why I am disappointed in him right now. Not because he wishes to speak freely, but how he's going about it which feels like there's more to the story than any of us know. Team chemistry is VITAL to success in this league and "His Camp" is fracturing that paradigm on profound levels.


    He obviously has never seen your drunken rants after a loss :)
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:18 am
  • BEASTM0DE wrote:I respect your opinion. If anything you’re the leader of this forum in my book. But I think your emotions are triggered (as well as many other people) by the fact that this is the FIRST time Russ has every spoken out against the organization. He’s always been a Yes man and a model player for an organization; however, the current direction and formula for this team just isn’t working. At the end of the day, the man is a competitor. He puts in the work during the off season. Him speaking out and him launching a cologne make it easy to label him the villain and overlook everything he has done. He hasn’t gone Hollywood. He’s finally standing up for himself...straight up. Put him in an organization willing to build around him, scheme around him (look at what Harbaugh did when going from Flacco to Lamar) and ultimately listen to him and he will THRIVE. Keep him in a system that clearly is dated with a stubborn coach that refuses to adjust and adapt, play to his strengths and you get the Seattle Seahawks under Pete Carroll.


    Amazing post. How do you have such few posts? Post MOAR please.

    But I don't think it's about standing up for himself. I think it's more about if they continue to do it Pete's way it is just going to keep producing the same results. (1 and done.)

    Just put yourself in Wilson's shoes for a second. Pete keeps preaching the same thing every day. You keep getting bounced early in the playoffs year after year. Wilson: "So, Pete, what are we going to do different this time?" Pete: "We're just going to keep doing what we're doing! It's my philosophy!" INSANITY.

    What I find absolutely fascinating, is when I observe other team's fanbases, they are all in on supporting their franchise QB. (Get him an O-Line, get him better weapons, get him a better playcaller, etc, etc.)

    Too many in this fanbase have outright contempt for a HoF QB, who has been propping up a failed process for YEARS. A blueprint of how not to build around a franchise QB. With the exception of WR. I think Seattle has been good in that area, at least. Though, without DK they would look pretty bad in that area as well. This whole thing falls apart, if/when Wilson moves on. He has been masking mediocrity for years. Pete failed to build properly around the QB. Too many bad draftpicks, too many bad trades, waayyy too many overpays of JAGs. All while keeping around underwhelming "yes" men coordinators. This all lays at Pete's feet.

    All the while Wilson watches the other elite QBs get top flight O-Lines, top flight schemes, top flight weapons. Y'know properly building around their Franchise QBs. How do people think he is going to react? When doing it Pete's way the last 6 years has resulted in playoff failure, with no signs of it improving if Wilson doesn't step in and say something now. Wilson isn't cool with just making the playoffs like some on here. He wants to win Superbowls and the fanbase should be in lockstep with that thought. GB, BUF, TB, KC, BAL, LAR fans, etc, are thinking that way.

    I think if the team simply does what Wilson wants (which I think they will). Improve the O-Line, particularly LG & C. Along with Waldron calling the plays. The Seahawks & Wilson will have a special year next year.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:19 am
  • Aros wrote:
    BEASTM0DE wrote:
    Aros wrote:Aros, you’re usually a pretty level headed guy but this was by far the most outrageous things You’ve ever posted. Now the guy FOR ONCE speaks out and grows a set and people are quick to forget all the good he’s done and contributed to not just the organization but the people of Seattle and people are coming up with reasons to label him the villain. He deserves better than what he’s working with in Seattle. Out of touch head coach who lacks accountability across every aspect and no O line. Give me a F’ing break


    You really think this is by far one of the most outrageous things I've ever posted? You must be new. Oh wait...11 posts, yep, you're new.

    :P

    I tease, I tease...Your opinion is as worthy as anyone's of course. I am going off of what my eyeballs tell me and what my eyeballs see is a man who seems just as driven to strengthen his brand as he is to succeed on the football field. Maybe that's perfectly okay but what's also perfectly okay is to feel how I feel about the way he is currently presenting himself nationally.

    Make NO mistake, I love Russell Wilson, will ALWAYS love Russell Wilson. Not just because he's the best player we have ever had but because of the man and character he is.

    And that is why I am disappointed in him right now. Not because he wishes to speak freely, but how he's going about it which feels like there's more to the story than any of us know. Team chemistry is VITAL to success in this league and "His Camp" is fracturing that paradigm on profound levels.


    This is pretty much exactly how I feel about the situation.

    Certainly chemistry can be built during the season. But negative vibes have doomed a lot of teams early in the season
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:03 am
  • rjdriver wrote:I sure respect many of the varied opinions and information from this board, I don't agree with all of them, but I get where most come from.

    That being said, something that's kind of alway bothered me is the "You're spoiled now crowd". Don't get me wrong, I understand where it comes from. I was around for the lean years as well. However, some of those years I enjoyed very much, especially when I saw teams that I felt would overachieve based on the talent on the field.

    I don't see it as complaining that we won 10, or 11, or 12 games. I see it as frustration that we underachieved and never rose to the level of expectation. Although it sounds ironic, for me, living through the lean years doesn't necessarily make me appreciate the winning seasons more, but it actually makes our inability to reach the top more difficult. Why? Because I understand what a unique and privileged spot we find ourselves in. Russell Wilsons and DK Metcalfs and Bobby Wagners and Clif Avrils and Pete Carrolls etc. don't come around very often. My tenure as a Seahawks fan has made me hypersensitive to the need to take full advantage of the moment, and not squander it.

    An analogy for all you parents out there.

    You have two kids....five years apart in age.

    The first one really, really struggled in Math. Although he didn't have natural math ability, he studied his butt off. He would spend more time on Math than all the rest of his classes combined. After studying all day and all night for his tests, he would go in and on a good day consistently score in the low 80's. He felt good about that and you acknowledged and felt proud of his efforts.

    The second one was like Will Hunting. Math came incredibly easy to him. He was a 1/1000 talent. He had all the potential in the word to consistently be at the top of his class. However, he never studied the right way, never made adjustments to different classes or teachers and refused to accept new concepts as they were introduced to him. However on test days, his sheer natural talent would never let him get less than high 80's.

    High 80's is clearly a higher mark than low 80's, but yet, knowing his potential for greatness, you feel frustrated. When you express your frustration to your son, his reply is...

    "You're so spoiled, my scores are better than my brothers. Do you want to go back to having kids who couldn't get past a 85"?

    I'm not sure I would accept that answer. In the same way as a Seahawk fan, just because I don't want to go back to lower mediocrity doesn't mean I should be content with wasted opportunity. Think about the talent we've fielded for the last 10 years. Think about how special some of those players were. Think about what your answer would have been right after SB48 if someone would have asked you "How many championships will this team win"?

    I understand it's great to have winning seasons consistently, I've enjoyed them. But I'm sorry, I can't buy into the "we used to suck and this is better" when there has been opportunities to be really special. Something tells me Russell Wilson feels the same way.


    Superb post RJDriver. Couldn't have said this any better. Sums up my thoughts exactly. :2thumbs:
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:56 am
  • rjdriver wrote:I sure respect many of the varied opinions and information from this board, I don't agree with all of them, but I get where most come from.

    That being said, something that's kind of alway bothered me is the "You're spoiled now crowd". Don't get me wrong, I understand where it comes from. I was around for the lean years as well. However, some of those years I enjoyed very much, especially when I saw teams that I felt would overachieve based on the talent on the field.

    I don't see it as complaining that we won 10, or 11, or 12 games. I see it as frustration that we underachieved and never rose to the level of expectation. Although it sounds ironic, for me, living through the lean years doesn't necessarily make me appreciate the winning seasons more, but it actually makes our inability to reach the top more difficult. Why? Because I understand what a unique and privileged spot we find ourselves in. Russell Wilsons and DK Metcalfs and Bobby Wagners and Clif Avrils and Pete Carrolls etc. don't come around very often. My tenure as a Seahawks fan has made me hypersensitive to the need to take full advantage of the moment, and not squander it.

    An analogy for all you parents out there.

    You have two kids....five years apart in age.

    The first one really, really struggled in Math. Although he didn't have natural math ability, he studied his butt off. He would spend more time on Math than all the rest of his classes combined. After studying all day and all night for his tests, he would go in and on a good day consistently score in the low 80's. He felt good about that and you acknowledged and felt proud of his efforts.

    The second one was like Will Hunting. Math came incredibly easy to him. He was a 1/1000 talent. He had all the potential in the word to consistently be at the top of his class. However, he never studied the right way, never made adjustments to different classes or teachers and refused to accept new concepts as they were introduced to him. However on test days, his sheer natural talent would never let him get less than high 80's.

    High 80's is clearly a higher mark than low 80's, but yet, knowing his potential for greatness, you feel frustrated. When you express your frustration to your son, his reply is...

    "You're so spoiled, my scores are better than my brothers. Do you want to go back to having kids who couldn't get past a 85"?

    I'm not sure I would accept that answer. In the same way as a Seahawk fan, just because I don't want to go back to lower mediocrity doesn't mean I should be content with wasted opportunity. Think about the talent we've fielded for the last 10 years. Think about how special some of those players were. Think about what your answer would have been right after SB48 if someone would have asked you "How many championships will this team win"?

    I understand it's great to have winning seasons consistently, I've enjoyed them. But I'm sorry, I can't buy into the "we used to suck and this is better" when there has been opportunities to be really special. Something tells me Russell Wilson feels the same way.


    Wonderful analogy...at least to me. Very brilliant way of putting it.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:38 am
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Last year was the shot across the bow.

    I keep hearing 'Wilson should have kept it in-house'.

    Well, what if in-house did not work? According to his side, he has been pushing against this Carroll crap for years. And nothing came of it.

    So last year, he did a drip campaign. That was 'Let Russ Cook'. The other part of that campaign was the warning. Pete ignored it. Did what Pete wanted to do, which was trot out a failed coaching philosophy and attempt to force it regardless.

    That got us a loss against a team with essentially half a QB. In a game where 3/4 of the time Aaron Donald did not even play.

    So Wilson, with the rail in place from the first campaign, started his second campaign.

    And yet, because this is about Pete's pride - Pete refuses to do what even the Texans FO is smart enough to do. At least show a commitment to keeping your star QB. Because this is about Pete's ego. And the reality is that without Wilson, Pete is a below-average NFL coach. (He is going to find this out when he drives off Wilson, BTW)

    He has 2 skillsets that are effective and valuable in the NFL, he is a great motivator and a great eye for talent/developer of same. The rest he is pretty much garbage at.

    Wilson is loyal as a core character trait. But he is getting to the age where QBs start worrying about their legacy. Did you know that pro athletes care more about being in the HOF than winning a SB? That is why legacy is so important.

    And Wilson realizes that Pete is going to saddle him with a legacy of being, for the most part, a playoff loser. Not even his fault but instead because of terrible gameplans for playoff games. Wilson wants a chance to show he can be great in the playoffs again and knows it will never be under Pete.

    He kept it in-house for years. Nothing changed. So now he needs to build external pressure for change. He needs a campaign.

    And when you pay someone millions of dollars, they can pay very talented people to build a marketing campaign for them. He did and it is working. You cannot blame him if the FO (Pete) refuses to listen or change any other way.

    This is ALL on Pete. For years of trying to force a failing coaching philosophy on a QB that deserves better.

    If he's been pushing against this "crap" for years, why did he sign the extension? He could've pushed his way out or played it out to free agency
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:58 am
  • BEASTM0DE wrote:
    Aros wrote:
    BEASTM0DE wrote:
    Aros wrote:Aros, you’re usually a pretty level headed guy but this was by far the most outrageous things You’ve ever posted. Now the guy FOR ONCE speaks out and grows a set and people are quick to forget all the good he’s done and contributed to not just the organization but the people of Seattle and people are coming up with reasons to label him the villain. He deserves better than what he’s working with in Seattle. Out of touch head coach who lacks accountability across every aspect and no O line. Give me a F’ing break


    You really think this is by far one of the most outrageous things I've ever posted? You must be new. Oh wait...11 posts, yep, you're new.

    :P

    I tease, I tease...Your opinion is as worthy as anyone's of course. I am going off of what my eyeballs tell me and what my eyeballs see is a man who seems just as driven to strengthen his brand as he is to succeed on the football field. Maybe that's perfectly okay but what's also perfectly okay is to feel how I feel about the way he is currently presenting himself nationally.

    Make NO mistake, I love Russell Wilson, will ALWAYS love Russell Wilson. Not just because he's the best player we have ever had but because of the man and character he is.

    And that is why I am disappointed in him right now. Not because he wishes to speak freely, but how he's going about it which feels like there's more to the story than any of us know. Team chemistry is VITAL to success in this league and "His Camp" is fracturing that paradigm on profound levels.


    I respect your opinion. If anything you’re the leader of this forum in my book. But I think your emotions are triggered (as well as many other people) by the fact that this is the FIRST time Russ has every spoken out against the organization. He’s always been a Yes man and a model player for an organization; however, the current direction and formula for this team just isn’t working. At the end of the day, the man is a competitor. He puts in the work during the off season. Him speaking out and him launching a cologne make it easy to label him the villain and overlook everything he has done. He hasn’t gone Hollywood. He’s finally standing up for himself...straight up. Put him in an organization willing to build around him, scheme around him (look at what Harbaugh did when going from Flacco to Lamar) and ultimately listen to him and he will THRIVE. Keep him in a system that clearly is dated with a stubborn coach that refuses to adjust and adapt, play to his strengths and you get the Seattle Seahawks under Pete Carroll.


    Why does everyone assume this is a given?
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:42 pm
  • OrangeGravy wrote:
    Why does everyone assume this is a given?


    Maybe due to the results and numbers he has put up in an offense that doesnt scheme around him.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:13 pm
  • We only have to look at the Bucs.

    They went and got Tom Brady, Arians knew that he would be a dead man if he didn't get him support, they went out and got a O line first, and then WR's and RB's. A few pieces for defense and where it took a bit to gell at the start of the season and for Tom to learn the playbook and adapt to his new team by midway they were rolling.

    It's a want by the team and of course willing to shuffle players and salary.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:29 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:We only have to look at the Bucs.

    They went and got Tom Brady, Arians knew that he would be a dead man if he didn't get him support, they went out and got a O line first, and then WR's and RB's. A few pieces for defense and where it took a bit to gell at the start of the season and for Tom to learn the playbook and adapt to his new team by midway they were rolling.

    It's a want by the team and of course willing to shuffle players and salary.


    Other than AB/Gronk, that team was put together prior to TB having any clue whether Tom was coming or not. All while having poor results record wise the last few seasons giving them the luxury of drafting much higher than playoff teams.

    Go back and look at what Arians was saying after the season ended last year. He basically spelled it out by mentioning how many picks/turnovers they had from the QB position and that just eliminating those, would make them a playoff team. Tom did that and he's Tom, so you get the playoff experience to boot.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:52 pm
  • OrangeGravy wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:We only have to look at the Bucs.

    They went and got Tom Brady, Arians knew that he would be a dead man if he didn't get him support, they went out and got a O line first, and then WR's and RB's. A few pieces for defense and where it took a bit to gell at the start of the season and for Tom to learn the playbook and adapt to his new team by midway they were rolling.

    It's a want by the team and of course willing to shuffle players and salary.


    Other than AB/Gronk, that team was put together prior to TB having any clue whether Tom was coming or not. All while having poor results record wise the last few seasons giving them the luxury of drafting much higher than playoff teams.

    Go back and look at what Arians was saying after the season ended last year. He basically spelled it out by mentioning how many picks/turnovers they had from the QB position and that just eliminating those, would make them a playoff team. Tom did that and he's Tom, so you get the playoff experience to boot.

    I agree Orange, I don't see the magic OL building and team building around a QB, I see a team drafting high that got a QB who uses the short middle better than any other current QB in the league to help out his OL.

    Also, if TB is the blueprint, they ran the $h!t out of the ball vs KC and played defense which is what Pete wants to do.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:15 pm
  • 1) The love of the Seahawks come through in all posts on this board. Disagreeing is not hating or attacking a person, but a POV.

    2) The dark days of Behring were very bad, but they did not last as long as most think.

    3) I loved the PC version of the Hawks, but that iteration of the Team is over as far as magic goes. JMO

    4) I loved the Jack Patera version as much as the PC version.

    5)The Knox version was better than Patera, I never would have believed Zorn would be benched in favor of Mudbone. Zorn was a superstar rising fast, but Krieg was a better player if the goal was winning. Kriegs Hawks were as magic as PC's version to me.

    6) Erickson got screwed over, he was putting out an increasingly better team week by week, but was hosed, I still loved the team

    7) Holmgren electrified the team and me, I went to my first NFL playoff game and we smeared the Panthers. I loved the team the same.

    8) PC came around and we suddenly improved, young players and great ones came on board and the sky was the limit. I loved the team just a little bit more.

    Year by year, like a marriage or a great friendship it grows. RW can leave, PC can leave, I am staying. I am b!@ch, moaning, cheering and hoping.

    It has always been The Seahawks, not Pateras Seahawks, Knoxes Hawks, Coach Holmgrens Hawks, or PC's. THE SEAHAWKS are the love of my sporting life. If Earl Thomas or Steve Hutchison walk from MY Hawks, screw THEM The same goes for RW, or DK, or any other player or coach. I don't know how they can treat this team, this heritage, THEIR GIFT and Opportunity like it is nothing. Either you are ALL IN, or get the Eff off the team bus. If Russ wants off, here is the door. The money someplace else is going to be the same. The management is going to be generally the same. The GIFT FROM GOD, at least the football gods to be given the honor or being a Seahawk should NOT BE THROWN AWAY. I love this team and franchise more than I love...... just about everything. How about you guys?

    On another note, Carroll seems done to me. RW is no longer GO HAWKS, he is like that College boy looking to transfer to a better gig. At least that is my read. He doesn't seem to have the fire like I do, or like the others on this forum for the Hawks. IMO of course.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:20 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:We only have to look at the Bucs.

    They went and got Tom Brady, Arians knew that he would be a dead man if he didn't get him support, they went out and got a O line first, and then WR's and RB's. A few pieces for defense and where it took a bit to gell at the start of the season and for Tom to learn the playbook and adapt to his new team by midway they were rolling.

    It's a want by the team and of course willing to shuffle players and salary.

    Are you sure the Bucs are a good example, though?

    Before Brady, the Bucs were a team loaded with talent that couldn't win because of inconsistent QB play. Their roster is full of players drafted in the top half of every round. For example, they've drafted 7 starters in the last 3 years: early second or first-round picks (3 players are top 15 picks). On average, they've picked 16 spots ahead of Seattle.

    For perspective, here's a draft value comparison of those drafts before trades: Seattle's average draft value is 544. The Bucs average draft value is 830. In other words, the difference between the average value of a single Seahawk's draft pick and a single Buccaneers draft pick is a late 2nd round pick. Think about that for a second; imagine what JS could do with 6 additional second-round picks worth of talent in 3 years.

    Additionally, the only significant addition the Bucs made to the O-line was drafting Tristan Wirfs with the 13th overall pick. Brady joined a team with two second-team All-Pro receivers and a promising young RB. He recruited Gronkowski and Brown (two additional all-pros). And Fournette chose to play with them because of Brady. On top of that, Brown and Fournette were on cheap deals because they are basketcases.

    So how exactly do Pete and John emulate the Buccaneers? They don't have the draft capital because they've been too good, and they've traded picks away to improve their defense. The likelihood of them finding bargains like Brown, Fournette, and Gronk are relatively low. And let's remember, they did make similar moves as the Bucs; They tried to sign Brown, brought in Olsen, and attempted to revive Gordon's career. It didn't work out, but those types of moves rarely do. Furthermore, Russell's contract is anywhere from 5 to 7 million more per season than Brady's.

    I guess I don't really see a blueprint for Seattle to emulate the Bucs. It's a nice thing to say. However, it's almost impossible for them to do given the context of their current situation. What are they going to do? How are they going to draft a top 15 O-lineman? Who are this year's Gronk, Brown, and Fournette? Unless you are certain you can answer these questions, to assume it's a viable way to build a team is wishful thinking.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:45 pm
  • knownone wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:We only have to look at the Bucs.

    They went and got Tom Brady, Arians knew that he would be a dead man if he didn't get him support, they went out and got a O line first, and then WR's and RB's. A few pieces for defense and where it took a bit to gell at the start of the season and for Tom to learn the playbook and adapt to his new team by midway they were rolling.

    It's a want by the team and of course willing to shuffle players and salary.

    Are you sure the Bucs are a good example, though?

    Before Brady, the Bucs were a team loaded with talent that couldn't win because of inconsistent QB play. Their roster is full of players drafted in the top half of every round. For example, they've drafted 7 starters in the last 3 years: early second or first-round picks (3 players are top 15 picks). On average, they've picked 16 spots ahead of Seattle.

    For perspective, here's a draft value comparison of those drafts before trades: Seattle's average draft value is 544. The Bucs average draft value is 830. In other words, the difference between the average value of a single Seahawk's draft pick and a single Buccaneers draft pick is a late 2nd round pick. Think about that for a second; imagine what JS could do with 6 additional second-round picks worth of talent in 3 years.

    Additionally, the only significant addition the Bucs made to the O-line was drafting Tristan Wirfs with the 13th overall pick. Brady joined a team with two second-team All-Pro receivers and a promising young RB. He recruited Gronkowski and Brown (two additional all-pros). And Fournette chose to play with them because of Brady. On top of that, Brown and Fournette were on cheap deals because they are basketcases.

    So how exactly do Pete and John emulate the Buccaneers? They don't have the draft capital because they've been too good, and they've traded picks away to improve their defense. The likelihood of them finding bargains like Brown, Fournette, and Gronk are relatively low. And let's remember, they did make similar moves as the Bucs; They tried to sign Brown, brought in Olsen, and attempted to revive Gordon's career. It didn't work out, but those types of moves rarely do. Furthermore, Russell's contract is anywhere from 5 to 7 million more per season than Brady's.

    I guess I don't really see a blueprint for Seattle to emulate the Bucs. It's a nice thing to say. However, it's almost impossible for them to do given the context of their current situation. What are they going to do? How are they going to draft a top 15 O-lineman? Who are this year's Gronk, Brown, and Fournette? Unless you are certain you can answer these questions, to assume it's a viable way to build a team is wishful thinking.


    There are going to be a lot of cuts due to the lower Cap, you build with the tools available, the Draft is probably the worst thing to use this year due to colleges having to change opponents and players sitting out and Teams not able to send scouts to watch and evaluate.

    Free agents and tuning rosters. There are going to be name cuts and attempts to resign, the first wave we always set out, sometimes even the second wave, teams are going to blow their wads and we will be selective as always but there will be a lot of players to be had.

    The question is what kind of players on offense is our new OC looking at, and once again is Pete going to allow what he wants to happen.

    Brown is solid but our RT's have been getting beat on the edge a lot by speed guys, tells me footwork and lateral agility is needed versus road grader forward type. Zone Blocking like the Rams requires good agility and footwork as well as the backs and TE's to be able to chip guys.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:51 am
  • At the end of the day, the sentiment across the league, media, et al, is that you never, ever, ever call out your OL publicly like he in fact did. Regardless if that wasn't his intention, that's how it came across.

    So nobody on this forum or elsewhere can convince me that that alone didn't have a detrimental effect on team chemistry.

    Forget everything else being discussed in this and other threads...

    THAT is my biggest disappointment with Russell right now.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:21 am
  • Aros wrote:Nah. I love a good conspiracy theory like the next dude but this smacks of what it smells, looks and feels like.

    - Russ is frustrated about the lack of protection. Most if not all of his career.

    - Russ is frustrated that due to sub-par coaching and scheming we were bounced in the first round of the playoffs at home to the Rams with a backup QB and a hobbled Goff.

    - Russ is frustrated of the team's perpetual insistence of looking for bargains and "versatile" players for the OL instead of drafting players who excel at their chosen positions, aka LG, C, etc, etc...

    - Russ is frustrated that he asks for more super star players and the response is a has-been tight end with literally zero tread left.

    Russ is just frustrated. And I don't blame him. But I DO blame him for taking this $h!t to the national media and creating chaos in the organization that cannot easily be repaired. As great of a human being as he is, and has shown, this is a legit tarnish on his name as a player. NEVER throw your players under the bus. E V E R .


    I agree with everything you say here until you get to the throwing players under the bus part. Russ isn't throwing players under the bus, he is doing what he feels he must do because this has went on far too long. If they won't fix it internally then he will take it to the national media, that's where we are at.

    Good for him too, be proactive, you've been patient long enough. He's made it plain enuf for everyone to see, fix this or I'm gone. This is HIS career, he has every right to take control over it. And, this is the best thing for the team as well. I support Russ 100% in this.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:20 am
  • I don't think it's a coincidence that so many key players from the SB team have ended up on bed terms with the organization. Lot of strong personalities, and not much accountability or management of those personalities.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:22 am
  • DomeHawk wrote:
    Aros wrote:Nah. I love a good conspiracy theory like the next dude but this smacks of what it smells, looks and feels like.

    - Russ is frustrated about the lack of protection. Most if not all of his career.

    - Russ is frustrated that due to sub-par coaching and scheming we were bounced in the first round of the playoffs at home to the Rams with a backup QB and a hobbled Goff.

    - Russ is frustrated of the team's perpetual insistence of looking for bargains and "versatile" players for the OL instead of drafting players who excel at their chosen positions, aka LG, C, etc, etc...

    - Russ is frustrated that he asks for more super star players and the response is a has-been tight end with literally zero tread left.

    Russ is just frustrated. And I don't blame him. But I DO blame him for taking this $h!t to the national media and creating chaos in the organization that cannot easily be repaired. As great of a human being as he is, and has shown, this is a legit tarnish on his name as a player. NEVER throw your players under the bus. E V E R .


    I agree with everything you say here until you get to the throwing players under the bus part. Russ isn't throwing players under the bus, he is doing what he feels he must do because this has went on far too long. If they won't fix it internally then he will take it to the national media, that's where we are at.

    Good for him too, be proactive, you've been patient long enough. He's made it plain enuf for everyone to see, fix this or I'm gone. This is HIS career, he has every right to take control over it. And, this is the best thing for the team as well. I support Russ 100% in this.


    Agreed. The timing is debatable, but the reality is that he spent the entirety of his career before parts of this year playing behind a poor line, and two most recent experiences were him destroyed by the Rams and then watching Mahomes get destroyed by the Bucs. No doubt at his age the recency bias and sense of urgency are coming into play.
    ducks41468
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:03 pm
  • Aros wrote:At the end of the day, the sentiment across the league, media, et al, is that you never, ever, ever call out your OL publicly like he in fact did. Regardless if that wasn't his intention, that's how it came across.

    So nobody on this forum or elsewhere can convince me that that alone didn't have a detrimental effect on team chemistry.

    Forget everything else being discussed in this and other threads...

    THAT is my biggest disappointment with Russell right now.


    :ditto: Exactly.

    We all know the OL line sucks. There was zero benefit for Wilson saying what he did. He made himself look like a poor teammate and now his teammates will second guess his real intentions from here on in.

    He could always make it up to them by buying them more stocks in Alaska Airlines, or, more importantly, come out and apologize or say that you misspoke or something. The silence from him and this "camp" of his is also deafening.
    Jerhawk
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:31 pm
  • There was plenty of benefit for Wilson.

    He improved his brand, his standing, and his power - if not the demand for his services, in a single 2 part process. First the interview, then the mini press conference.

    Wilson is harnessing cognitive bias perfectly.

    He was always 'the good soldier'. Built a brand on it.

    So if he is speaking up now, the obvious implication is:

    1. He tried everything else internally.

    2. He had little choice.

    His camp then released the same types of leaks referring to 1 & 2 above.

    He single-handedly reversed the narrative.

    He was a QB that has not delivered since the LOB loss and has not been that great in the playoffs without them.

    That was literally what the media was saying about him during the pre-SB discussions about Brady, Rogers, and Wilson. A few hours before the SB started you could find it on sports talk shows. Go back and watch people talk about how he fell short of the MVP and why Carroll had to reel it in. Those discussions were out there.

    Now, the narrative is that he is a fantastic QB that has been held back all this time by Carroll.

    He basically pinned every playoff loss since the SB loss on Carroll. Listen to what the media is saying about him and Carroll now.

    Now all he has to do is wait for confirmation bias to kick in.

    He puts pressure on the organization, gets to potentially improve his OL, and might even force his way out of being under a defense-first coach to an offense-first in another city. And any shortcomings in the playoffs are all going to be pinned on Carroll...and already are being. (That has to be killing Carroll BTW.)

    He polished his legacy, improved his standing, and rebuilt his brand in one fell swoop. I would be shocked if those questions were not fed to Dan Patrick before the interview. He has a history of feeding interviewers questions to open these kinds of doors.
    TwistedHusky
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:34 pm
  • ducks41468 wrote:
    DomeHawk wrote:
    Aros wrote:Nah. I love a good conspiracy theory like the next dude but this smacks of what it smells, looks and feels like.

    - Russ is frustrated about the lack of protection. Most if not all of his career.

    - Russ is frustrated that due to sub-par coaching and scheming we were bounced in the first round of the playoffs at home to the Rams with a backup QB and a hobbled Goff.

    - Russ is frustrated of the team's perpetual insistence of looking for bargains and "versatile" players for the OL instead of drafting players who excel at their chosen positions, aka LG, C, etc, etc...

    - Russ is frustrated that he asks for more super star players and the response is a has-been tight end with literally zero tread left.

    Russ is just frustrated. And I don't blame him. But I DO blame him for taking this $h!t to the national media and creating chaos in the organization that cannot easily be repaired. As great of a human being as he is, and has shown, this is a legit tarnish on his name as a player. NEVER throw your players under the bus. E V E R .


    I agree with everything you say here until you get to the throwing players under the bus part. Russ isn't throwing players under the bus, he is doing what he feels he must do because this has went on far too long. If they won't fix it internally then he will take it to the national media, that's where we are at.

    Good for him too, be proactive, you've been patient long enough. He's made it plain enuf for everyone to see, fix this or I'm gone. This is HIS career, he has every right to take control over it. And, this is the best thing for the team as well. I support Russ 100% in this.


    Agreed. The timing is debatable, but the reality is that he spent the entirety of his career before parts of this year playing behind a poor line, and two most recent experiences were him destroyed by the Rams and then watching Mahomes get destroyed by the Bucs. No doubt at his age the recency bias and sense of urgency are coming into play.


    also lets remember the only player he called out needing to play better by name was himself.
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:43 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:There was plenty of benefit for Wilson.

    He improved his brand, his standing, and his power - if not the demand for his services, in a single 2 part process. First the interview, then the mini press conference.

    Wilson is harnessing cognitive bias perfectly.

    He was always 'the good soldier'. Built a brand on it.

    So if he is speaking up now, the obvious implication is:

    1. He tried everything else internally.

    2. He had little choice.

    His camp then released the same types of leaks referring to 1 & 2 above.

    He single-handedly reversed the narrative.

    He was a QB that has not delivered since the LOB loss and has not been that great in the playoffs without them.

    That was literally what the media was saying about him during the pre-SB discussions about Brady, Rogers, and Wilson. A few hours before the SB started you could find it on sports talk shows. Go back and watch people talk about how he fell short of the MVP and why Carroll had to reel it in. Those discussions were out there.

    Now, the narrative is that he is a fantastic QB that has been held back all this time by Carroll.

    He basically pinned every playoff loss since the SB loss on Carroll. Listen to what the media is saying about him and Carroll now.

    Now all he has to do is wait for confirmation bias to kick in.

    He puts pressure on the organization, gets to potentially improve his OL, and might even force his way out of being under a defense-first coach to an offense-first in another city. And any shortcomings in the playoffs are all going to be pinned on Carroll...and already are being. (That has to be killing Carroll BTW.)

    He polished his legacy, improved his standing, and rebuilt his brand in one fell swoop. I would be shocked if those questions were not fed to Dan Patrick before the interview. He has a history of feeding interviewers questions to open these kinds of doors.

    There's no question that's how it went down with Dan Patrick. My question is what's the point when Russell is still not gonna win another SB whether here or somewhere else? None of that narrative manipulation will last. It goes away as soon as he hits another sh!t patch of play, which will happen next season no matter where he plays
    OrangeGravy
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:14 pm
  • I've been trying to ignore some of these threads as they turn into Pete bashing threads, and that has become tiresome as they so disrespect a very good HC and point fingers at anyone who disagrees calling them out as idiots.

    In response to Aros, what can the team say other than they are disappointed that Wilson is airing out his grievances in the media instead of in-house?

    Beyond that Wilson has to know the team respects him, he was made the highest paid player in the NFL when he did his last deal and has only been eclipsed by a few recent deal a few years later. He was asked for input into the recent OC change. The team knows that the pass pro has been weak and that Wilson is being hit hurried and sacked far too often.
    pete wants to make other teams respect our play action by running more and running more effectively. if the team was to respond it only creates more of media circus. He said they said etc., etc..

    Wilson is offering up justification for weak play the last half of the year, sadly it's truly not on him but a genuine lack of creative play calling combine d with Pete's conservativism to prevent turnovers which had started to become more commonplace as RW pressed in the Let Russ Cook mode. wilson was in part to blame for QB pressures at times and about 20% of his sacks were on him not getting rid of the ball as he tried to make magic. There is little doubt he is good at making magic happen but certainly must have known the other teams were on to what the Hawks were trying to do and he was being spied pretty closely. There is little doubt though Wilson is right, he is getting hit far too often, and the pass pro needs a lot of help to stop that from happening. He also needs a more creative O that can't be easily defended with one size fits all type D's two high safety alignments. Divisionally he needs an answer to help better protect him from Aaron Donald who owns him and regularly eat his lunch. He needs an intermediate game better play action and running and at least 1- 100 yard rusher in a season. He needs some better talent supporting him and it is worth listening to him.

    This situation has quieted down a good bit since the RW media tour. Perhaps he and Pete have talked and at least understand that both want to see positive change. I'm rather sure the team has to have spoken with Wilson about redoing his contract to roll the rock down the road by taking part of his salary and guaranteeing the $ thus allowing for amortization of the balance of the deal and cap saving to deploy elsewhere.

    I still think this was a situation that came at a soft news cycle time perhaps purposefully on Wilson's part but is nevertheless less overblown and has been made into a mountain instead of the molehill it truly should be.
    jammerhawk
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:02 pm
  • Nailed it!!!
    wazzuwilly
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:10 pm
  • jammerhawk wrote:I've been trying to ignore some of these threads as they turn into Pete bashing threads, and that has become tiresome as they so disrespect a very good HC and point fingers at anyone who disagrees calling them out as idiots.

    In response to Aros, what can the team say other than they are disappointed that Wilson is airing out his grievances in the media instead of in-house?

    Beyond that Wilson has to know the team respects him, he was made the highest paid player in the NFL when he did his last deal and has only been eclipsed by a few recent deal a few years later. He was asked for input into the recent OC change. The team knows that the pass pro has been weak and that Wilson is being hit hurried and sacked far too often.
    pete wants to make other teams respect our play action by running more and running more effectively. if the team was to respond it only creates more of media circus. He said they said etc., etc..

    Wilson is offering up justification for weak play the last half of the year, sadly it's truly not on him but a genuine lack of creative play calling combine d with Pete's conservativism to prevent turnovers which had started to become more commonplace as RW pressed in the Let Russ Cook mode. wilson was in part to blame for QB pressures at times and about 20% of his sacks were on him not getting rid of the ball as he tried to make magic. There is little doubt he is good at making magic happen but certainly must have known the other teams were on to what the Hawks were trying to do and he was being spied pretty closely. There is little doubt though Wilson is right, he is getting hit far too often, and the pass pro needs a lot of help to stop that from happening. He also needs a more creative O that can't be easily defended with one size fits all type D's two high safety alignments. Divisionally he needs an answer to help better protect him from Aaron Donald who owns him and regularly eat his lunch. He needs an intermediate game better play action and running and at least 1- 100 yard rusher in a season. He needs some better talent supporting him and it is worth listening to him.

    This situation has quieted down a good bit since the RW media tour. Perhaps he and Pete have talked and at least understand that both want to see positive change. I'm rather sure the team has to have spoken with Wilson about redoing his contract to roll the rock down the road by taking part of his salary and guaranteeing the $ thus allowing for amortization of the balance of the deal and cap saving to deploy elsewhere.

    I still think this was a situation that came at a soft news cycle time perhaps purposefully on Wilson's part but is nevertheless less overblown and has been made into a mountain instead of the molehill it truly should be.

    My only issue with Russell and O-line talk is that, for me, the return on O-line investment is so low. For example, in some hypothetical scenario where you could improve the O-line across the board by 50%, it will only result in something like a 15% improvement in actual on field results with a QB like Russell, Watson, etc....

    That's how I see the Russell/O-line equation. Everyone agrees that this unit needs to be better. Better to me is a reduction in the complete jailbreak plays to something less than .5/game, so no more than 8 of those in the season with most of those probably coming when that unit just has a really bad day against a really good front. Combine that with being more consistent in the run game blocking and I think that's all you can really hope for from them. The other piece is the OC/scheme making up for a lot of ball holding time by Russell. 10 years in, I don't think he's gonna change much without the structure of play calls giving him no other choice but to get it out of his hand.

    I suspect that Pete/John probably have similar feelings which has led to them having a tough time trying to get that formula correct. 5 all pro's across the board LT, LG,C,RG,RT would still look worse than they are with a mobile QB behind them. Obviously no team can afford that, so you evaluate everything and come up with another plan between over paying and massively under paying. Putting together an effective unit for a mobile QB is, I think, much tougher when taking in salary cap concerns.

    All of that to basically say, it's a much more difficult dance to pull off with a mobile QB than it would be otherwise.
    OrangeGravy
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:26 am
  • I wonder if Colts fans were calling for Manning's head when he called his O Line out in a post game presser??
    I highly doubt it.
    SoulfishHawk
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:46 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:I wonder if Colts fans were calling for Manning's head when he called his O Line out in a post game presser??
    I highly doubt it.


    Shoot, Brady calls out his O-Line all the time in the middle of the game. :shock:

    Talk about blowing things out of proportion. :D

    First thing Wilson said also was that he needed to be better. He understands he is a part of the problem, too. But at the same time, they need to get much better up front. Wilson is holding PC & Co. accountable.



    =============

    No more blowing $50M in cap space on JAGs. Improve the roster, or he is leaving. The ball is in the front offices court. Let's see what they do.

    Rob Staton killing it as usual.
    Fade
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:55 am
  • Nothing Russ said was wrong. I'm glad he spoke up. I'm just laughing at how much it gets blown out of proportion. And shocked at how many people are almost taking it personal. Let alone bashing the guy and making him out to be something he isn't. He has been nothing but class his entire career. Can't say that about the "fans" who are throwing him under the bus.
    And people magically create stuff that isn't close to being accurate. He flat out SAID he needs to get better at getting rid of the ball. People claim that he should put some blame on himself. Um, he did, and has for years.
    SoulfishHawk
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:00 am
  • Apparently, Rob Staton is my spirit animal. Agree with everything he said.

    Pete has always been the problem, really since the SB loss but maybe at least a few years since the SB loss.

    Pete did a lot for this team and city.

    But every year he is hurting our success more than helping it now.

    I honestly have no idea what Wilson was thinking.

    He never should have extended and this is going to end badly for everyone involved. He plays one more year. But there is no way I see Wilson playing 2 years from now here.

    None. Because there is no way Pete gets rid of himself, and that is the big problem holding everything back.
    TwistedHusky
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:00 pm
  • That's the weird thing about Wilson re-signing here. I always thought that he would take the $$$ (why shouldn't he?) AND that it would be clear: I am captain of the offense. Not Carroll. When the game is on the line, I call the shots on the offense, not Carroll. I am your highly paid QB and you are paying me acknowledging that I rock.

    But from what we saw this last season (where Carroll and Wilson were not on the same page during the second half) that is not the case. Or Carroll went back on the deal (pray I don't alter it any further).

    Or, do we think that Wilson re-signed here while not asking for the above? I have a hard time imagining that.

    To me that's important because it shows that the well already has some poison in it from the LAST deal. I don't think Wilson is going anywhere this year, but he has fired a shot across the Seahawks' bow. Time to make some changes.

    If we improve this year (even a poorer record, but more than a one and done in the playoffs) then all may yet be well. But I am less optimistic of improvement (12-4 is tough to do and a weak Rams team bounced us) given the challenges the team faces, which have nothing directly to do with this controversy. That's a function of little draft capital and cap challenges.

    It will be hard to meet Wilson's demands for improvement. Not impossible and we have to give Schneider and Carroll the opportunity for work magic. But I think this is all about the NEXT off season, not this one. If Wilson does not like what he sees this coming season (i.e., not being captain of the offense with Carroll butting in, esp. if there are some picks), then this is all preamble for Wilson demanding an exit 1 year from now. It really comes down to what happens this season.
    GaiusMarius
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:37 pm
  • Aros wrote:Nah. I love a good conspiracy theory like the next dude but this smacks of what it smells, looks and feels like.

    - Russ is frustrated about the lack of protection. Most if not all of his career.

    - Russ is frustrated that due to sub-par coaching and scheming we were bounced in the first round of the playoffs at home to the Rams with a backup QB and a hobbled Goff.

    - Russ is frustrated of the team's perpetual insistence of looking for bargains and "versatile" players for the OL instead of drafting players who excel at their chosen positions, aka LG, C, etc, etc...

    - Russ is frustrated that he asks for more super star players and the response is a has-been tight end with literally zero tread left.

    Russ is just frustrated. And I don't blame him. But I DO blame him for taking this $h!t to the national media and creating chaos in the organization that cannot easily be repaired. As great of a human being as he is, and has shown, this is a legit tarnish on his name as a player. NEVER throw your players under the bus. E V E R .


    Hard disagree - if he's the leader we think he is - it won't matter and he'll work it out with Pete and his teammates. Everybody seems to conveniently be skipping the part where Dan Patrick initially asked the question, and RW did the usual cliche ramble for about 2 minutes. Dan Patrick pressed him on it and then RW gave a more candid answer. Hell he even admitted HE needed to BE BETTER at least a couple times during the more candid response.

    The man has toe'd the company line for 10 years, kept it in house, has been all "Go Hawks!" and $h!t while basically running around like Patrick Mahomes did in the Super bowl for about 7 of those years. If the organization is pissed because he answered a question sorta candidly for the first time in 10 years, that says more about the organization than it does him.

    Lastly - we've seen what Pete looks like without RW. 9 and 7 or 7 and 9. The LOB was already in place sans Bobby Wagner. RW becomes the QB (BEFORE the LOB hit it's stride in 2013) and leads Seattle to 11-5, and what should have been an NFC championship appearance, except oh wait, Pete's D gives up a drive (with only 30 seconds left in the game!) to the Falcons to kick a game-winning field goal.
    MissoulaHawkFan
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Re: Silence Is Deafening
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:54 pm
  • Here is what I see.

    Shula great Coach and his window was the early 70's

    Knoll great run mid 70's.

    Johnson had his window late 80's early 90's

    Walsh the early 80's till late 80's.

    Landry early 70's

    All these guys had windows, there are others such as Madden with the Raiders as well, but they have success windows, whether it be their systems a group of players or a staff that is in sync and work well together.

    Pete may have come to the end of his window, he had success with his big Corners and systems, he had success with a generation back in Lynch and a Staff that has over time been hired by other teams.

    The league adapting to his system, him being farther removed for the talent pool in college which he gleaned so well and the type of players he was selecting which other teams passed on since they were not prototypical in size for positions, has changed to where other teams choose them now based on Pete's success.

    Getting Wilson fit into all the above as well.

    What I am saying is also many of those teams held onto that coach too long Shula, Knoll, Landry.

    Cowher eventually got Pittsburgh back to contention, Johnson's was able to get Dallas back to success, Miami is still looking, we seen the collapse after Walsh handed the controls to Seifert and he rode Walsh's players till they were gone.

    You could throw The Rat in Denver into this as well until Elway retired.

    Maybe we have seen the end of Pete's window, we are fading not collapsing.

    Madden and Cowher, Johnson and Walsh stepped away while still a success, others retired in a losing house of cards.

    Thoughts?
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