Cowherd: Since death of PA, Carroll has "unquestioned power"

Scorpion05

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Interesting perspective. I think there's a power struggle that we never considered. Schneider answers to Pete, Wilson answers to Pete, and Pete doesn't really answer to anyone. Jody Allen was thrown in as owner but in the end this isn't her show. It was Paul Allen's and the team seems to be struggling behind the scenes without PA.

Cowherd also made an interesting point about the defense, and how much Pete has struggled to put together a good defense since LOB. Even with Wilson's salary, there has still been some bad drafting and FA signings.

[youtube]HVlTYHYzrvg[/youtube]
 

TwistedHusky

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Yep.

Cowherd made a lot of points I've made. But backed them up by alluding to existing Seahawks that feel the same way. If Carroll's own players think he is submarining the team's success - he is delivering nothing.

If Pete cannot field a defense but Wilson loves him, you learn to live with him if you have to.

But if Pete cannot field a defense and Wilson is bothered by him? He has to go.

This is Wilson taking the power back. And with nobody to check Carroll's power (which literally included screwing with his own coordinators' call in games, actions that COST us games) - the only one that can really do this now is Wilson.

Wilson is realizing that when a franchise anoints you - you do not have to answer to your coach, your coach has to answer to you. Because Carroll's wins literally hinge on Wilson delivering them for you. Wilson on the other hand, has shown he can play outside the gameplan and deliver - so the reverse is not always true.

Wilson now knows he is THE most important person in the Seahawk organization. And he is exercising the power that comes with that knowledge.

Nothing wrong with that.

Because Carroll stopped being a benefit to this franchise some time ago. Now he is an unchecked anchor on the success of this franchise, holding it back with outdated tactics and strategies that bear little relevance to the players he even has.
 

Maelstrom787

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As one of the bigger Carroll supporters on this forum, I've said it before and I'll say it again:

It's time for Pete to keep his star happy.

Within reason, what Russell wants, Russell should get. Wants Ertz? Get him. Wants Linsley? Make a run at him. I'm already pleased with his acquisition of Waldron and Dickerson on the offensive coaching staff, because it points in the right direction.

WITH THAT BEING SAID, Pete is the head coach and the head executive, and the team should still be built largely in his image. There needs to be a balance, and what Carroll wants isn't necessarily bad. Ball control, chains moving, good defense. These are things that HELP a quarterback. They're what ended up tanking the Let Russ Cook effort. These guys CAN co-exist. I'm sure of it. There is enough middle ground for this to work, and postseason success will cure all.
 

TheLegendOfBoom

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Like my guy Maelstrom pointed out, what Carroll wants is not necessarily a bad thing, and I get why, “ball control, chains moving, good defense...” if you are able to play this consistently, you’ll win more games than you’ll lose, it is a strategy that minimizes turnovers and controls the game.

However, with all his “knowledge” expert “specialist” mind you, he has struggled to build one capable of what he want.

Carroll, may be master motivator, but he is pretty incapable and does not have the talent to locate and draft talent anymore. Or if he himself, was the person that really found all these gems in past (one currently) players such as Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Doug Baldwin, KJ Wright, etc.

How do absolutely know it was Carroll that spotted these guys? Carroll was coming out of USC and had a tremendous amount of inside information at the college level that many in the NFL had probably dismissed. Now that Carroll has been in the league for a decade his inside knowledge has evaporated.

I think his strategy is a good strategy as he is able to draft and build a collective talent but when that collective bunch and their separate pieces aren’t able to play at a consistent high level, his own system will work at a disadvantage.

And this is all Carroll knows and he’ll live and die by its successes and failures. It’s just now it’s more so under the microscope that there are more faults than pros with his system under the collective roster in the past 3-4 years.

Many here will argue they’ll take a 11-12 win seasons and playoff exits because they remember the lean years and do it want to revert back to it. But now it’s different, you have a legit QB in Wilson, sometimes Wilson looks like he’s a top 5 QB and sometimes when Carroll’s system does not work (6-7 games against prime teams) Wilson can look like an inefficient player.

I agree Wilson knows he can grab the power back somewhat. And I also agree since PA passed away, Carroll walks around like he can do wrong with no one to answer too. This makes Carroll feel untouchable. Even if he angers Wilson, Carroll does not have to relinquish any say at all. Wilson can turn this thing around if he continues to be heavy footed and sticks to his convictions.

This is a players league. The players ultimately put fans in the stadiums, purchase merchandise, sell commercials etc.

The owners rely on the players more so than the coaches. If you have a franchise QB, you need to understand how to build a supporting cast around that player because of that player succeeds the coaches succeeds. Not the other way around. And Tom Brady proved that.

You need to make Wilson happy. Not Carroll. More likely Wilson finds success without Carroll than Carroll finding success without Wilson.

Jody Allen and her sports team can either do a better job of managing the Seahawks soap opera or they can totally run it to the ground and lose Wilson in the process. Carroll is real old, he’s going to leave anyways. Who would you rather give 5 years more too? Wilson or Carroll?

It’s a pretty easy answer. Wilson.

Leave Carroll in the rear view mirror.

You accelerate hard and you don’t look back!
 

John63

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I will say it again, PC needs Wilson to even have a chance at anything, and more over, so he has someone to blame.
 

Hawaii-hawk

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Cowherds echoing much of my own sentiment, including who’s got all the power here. Baffling to me how members here can think it’s shottys fault that there were zero adjustments made for the back half of the season. That’s all on Pete one way or the other: either he’s refusing any adjustments being made or he’s just sitting back doing nothing while his OC is making zero adjustments. Either way, Pete is responsible for that.
 

kf3339

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I've said this before in other threads, and will say it again.

"NOTHING" is happening until we get new ownership of the Hawks. I seriously doubt PA wanted the team to still be in his estate's control this long after his passing. It's going on 2.5 years and still no new owner. His sister is either incompetent or may actually want to pretend that she is the real owner of the team. Either way it's going to ruin this franchise.

I do see Wilson leaving either this off-season or next in a trade package. I also see PC being the man who took a potential dynasty team and beating it into the ground when he does depart. The power has gone to his head. He will be looked on as not the HC who gave the team it's first SB championship, but as the man who screwed a dynasty team.

He should have been fired several years ago. It will take a new owner to make that happen now.
 

TreeRon

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I honestly believe that RW wants some say on #1. the O-line, #2. Run support and that's about it.
He's probably happy with the receivers and tight ends. Yes, he'd like to have a great D but I would imagine that he understands that is not in his strike one.
 

pittpnthrs

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Amazing how some are still choosing Carroll over Wilson.
 

Fade

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I already pointed this out in the "It's not Russ, It's not Pete…" thread.

This is a huge problem. Paul Allen was a fantastic owner, having the ability to stay hands off, but at the same time when there was a glaring problem he would act swiftly and fix it.

Stripping Holmgren of GM Power. Firing Mora after only 1 season, etc.

I don't believe he would've signed Pete to a 5 yr extension either, maybe 1 or 2 years, but not 5. Pete took advantage of the situation and milked Jody for all he could. I believe the deal made Pete the highest paid coach as well. What he has done over the last 6 seasons with hardly any playoff wins would not warrant that kind of payout and that many years at 70 years old?

Pete's previous extension when PA was alive was only 2 years for reference.

Jody needs to sell the team if things get really ugly here in the not to distant future. She might need to sell it anyway, she reminds me of the substitute teacher that the kids walk all over.
 

nwHawk

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What baffles me is there have been numerous games where post game comments were said about Russ persuading Pete to go for it or to try this or that. Heck, even the David Moore pass to get Moore the $100k, against Pete's knee down wishes.

Why didn't Russ inject himself in other games after the bye or down the stretch when the offense was sputtering. How about withering the season on the line against the Rams in the playoffs. I really don't think anyone, I include myself in that, has the full picture yet.
 

xray

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I thought Cowherd was considered chit around here .
 

nwHawk

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Fade":1gr255e4 said:
I don't believe he would've signed Pete to a 5 yr extension either, maybe 1 or 2 years, but not 5. Pete took advantage of the situation and milked Jody for all he could.

I do think the 5 year deal was excessive, and I like Pete (I know he has faults). Jody may have looked at it as a way to keep the Seahawks connected to Paul. Pete was Paul's choice, therefore the dream is still alive.
 
D

DomeHawk

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The one thing I don't understand in the "at least we make the playoffs now" argument is how is a quick exit from the playoffs really any better than not making the playoffs?

I mean yes, it's true, if you don't make the playoffs you have virtually no chance to make the SB. But if you consistently are a quick exit you also don't have any chance to make the SB either.
 

OrangeGravy

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DomeHawk":3eh4u1lf said:
The one thing I don't understand in the "at least we make the playoffs now" argument is how is a quick exit from the playoffs really any better than not making the playoffs?

I mean yes, it's true, if you don't make the playoffs you have virtually no chance to make the SB. But if you consistently are a quick exit you also don't have any chance to make the SB either.
It's not virtually no chance, you actually have no chance. There is literally no way to make it to the SB if you don't make the playoffs. What are you even saying? If you lose early in the playoffs you have no chance to make it to the SB? Guess what, if you lose in the playoffs at anytime before the SB, you have no chance to get to the SB. Of course once you're out, you're out.
 

jeremiah

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TheLegendOfBoom":2vviz1q2 said:
Like my guy Maelstrom pointed out, what Carroll wants is not necessarily a bad thing, and I get why, “ball control, chains moving, good defense...” if you are able to play this consistently, you’ll win more games than you’ll lose, it is a strategy that minimizes turnovers and controls the game.

However, with all his “knowledge” expert “specialist” mind you, he has struggled to build one capable of what he want.

Carroll, may be master motivator, but he is pretty incapable and does not have the talent to locate and draft talent anymore. Or if he himself, was the person that really found all these gems in past (one currently) players such as Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Doug Baldwin, KJ Wright, etc.

How do absolutely know it was Carroll that spotted these guys? Carroll was coming out of USC and had a tremendous amount of inside information at the college level that many in the NFL had probably dismissed. Now that Carroll has been in the league for a decade his inside knowledge has evaporated.

I think his strategy is a good strategy as he is able to draft and build a collective talent but when that collective bunch and their separate pieces aren’t able to play at a consistent high level, his own system will work at a disadvantage.

And this is all Carroll knows and he’ll live and die by its successes and failures. It’s just now it’s more so under the microscope that there are more faults than pros with his system under the collective roster in the past 3-4 years.

Many here will argue they’ll take a 11-12 win seasons and playoff exits because they remember the lean years and do it want to revert back to it. But now it’s different, you have a legit QB in Wilson, sometimes Wilson looks like he’s a top 5 QB and sometimes when Carroll’s system does not work (6-7 games against prime teams) Wilson can look like an inefficient player.

I agree Wilson knows he can grab the power back somewhat. And I also agree since PA passed away, Carroll walks around like he can do wrong with no one to answer too. This makes Carroll feel untouchable. Even if he angers Wilson, Carroll does not have to relinquish any say at all. Wilson can turn this thing around if he continues to be heavy footed and sticks to his convictions.

This is a players league. The players ultimately put fans in the stadiums, purchase merchandise, sell commercials etc.

The owners rely on the players more so than the coaches. If you have a franchise QB, you need to understand how to build a supporting cast around that player because of that player succeeds the coaches succeeds. Not the other way around. And Tom Brady proved that.

You need to make Wilson happy. Not Carroll. More likely Wilson finds success without Carroll than Carroll finding success without Wilson.

Jody Allen and her sports team can either do a better job of managing the Seahawks soap opera or they can totally run it to the ground and lose Wilson in the process. Carroll is real old, he’s going to leave anyways. Who would you rather give 5 years more too? Wilson or Carroll?

It’s a pretty easy answer. Wilson.

I would like to compare PC to Marty Schottenheim. Pete got lucky with a dynamite D, a hot Running back, plus a young and elusive QB on a rookie contract. They both can have or had great season records, and lose in the playoffs.

Leave Carroll in the rear view mirror.

You accelerate hard and you don’t look back!
..... I like your finish so much, I made it look like my own words
 

rjdriver

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I'm just glad Russell Wilson doesn't care about the "lean years" of 20 years ago and isn't content with 10-12 win seasons with early playoff exits. His desire to be the be the best and live up to potential along with his "never content" mentality wouldn't go over well here with a lot of members.
 

TheLegendOfBoom

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jeremiah":d48e39yq said:
TheLegendOfBoom":d48e39yq said:
Like my guy Maelstrom pointed out, what Carroll wants is not necessarily a bad thing, and I get why, “ball control, chains moving, good defense...” if you are able to play this consistently, you’ll win more games than you’ll lose, it is a strategy that minimizes turnovers and controls the game.

However, with all his “knowledge” expert “specialist” mind you, he has struggled to build one capable of what he want.

Carroll, may be master motivator, but he is pretty incapable and does not have the talent to locate and draft talent anymore. Or if he himself, was the person that really found all these gems in past (one currently) players such as Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Doug Baldwin, KJ Wright, etc.

How do absolutely know it was Carroll that spotted these guys? Carroll was coming out of USC and had a tremendous amount of inside information at the college level that many in the NFL had probably dismissed. Now that Carroll has been in the league for a decade his inside knowledge has evaporated.

I think his strategy is a good strategy as he is able to draft and build a collective talent but when that collective bunch and their separate pieces aren’t able to play at a consistent high level, his own system will work at a disadvantage.

And this is all Carroll knows and he’ll live and die by its successes and failures. It’s just now it’s more so under the microscope that there are more faults than pros with his system under the collective roster in the past 3-4 years.

Many here will argue they’ll take a 11-12 win seasons and playoff exits because they remember the lean years and do it want to revert back to it. But now it’s different, you have a legit QB in Wilson, sometimes Wilson looks like he’s a top 5 QB and sometimes when Carroll’s system does not work (6-7 games against prime teams) Wilson can look like an inefficient player.

I agree Wilson knows he can grab the power back somewhat. And I also agree since PA passed away, Carroll walks around like he can do wrong with no one to answer too. This makes Carroll feel untouchable. Even if he angers Wilson, Carroll does not have to relinquish any say at all. Wilson can turn this thing around if he continues to be heavy footed and sticks to his convictions.

This is a players league. The players ultimately put fans in the stadiums, purchase merchandise, sell commercials etc.

The owners rely on the players more so than the coaches. If you have a franchise QB, you need to understand how to build a supporting cast around that player because of that player succeeds the coaches succeeds. Not the other way around. And Tom Brady proved that.

You need to make Wilson happy. Not Carroll. More likely Wilson finds success without Carroll than Carroll finding success without Wilson.

Jody Allen and her sports team can either do a better job of managing the Seahawks soap opera or they can totally run it to the ground and lose Wilson in the process. Carroll is real old, he’s going to leave anyways. Who would you rather give 5 years more too? Wilson or Carroll?

It’s a pretty easy answer. Wilson.

I would like to compare PC to Marty Schottenheim. Pete got lucky with a dynamite D, a hot Running back, plus a young and elusive QB on a rookie contract. They both can have or had great season records, and lose in the playoffs.

Leave Carroll in the rear view mirror.

You accelerate hard and you don’t look back!
..... I like your finish so much, I made it look like my own words
Agreed, x1000!

Cheers, brother!
 

Fade

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The irony.

Those that are cool with merely making the playoffs and getting immediately bounced because it's better than the lean years. Is going to be the reason the HoF QB leaves, sending the franchise back into the lean years. :shock:

But I'm the spoiled one! LOL

It's about expectation. When you have a top 5 QB, it's about Superbowls. Of course you're not going to win it every year, but the Seahawks are not even coming close. Rodgers and the Packers deem their season a failure.
 

chris98251

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Pete can do what Pete does, but Pete needs someone that is safe in his position to challenge him. Being close to every situation blinds you, you start getting into habits, people notice those and you are predictable.

This is across the board not just Offense and Defense but hiring's, drafting, Free Agent types etc.

Unchecked and not questioned you have a Snyder, Bidwell, Brown situation, or the Raiders when Al was older.
 
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