An Interesting set of stats

John63

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https://twitter.com/guitarcoder/status/1365324441803059201/photo/1

Look at both pictures

Pete Carroll without Russel Wilson = .489
Pete Carroll with only Russel Wilson = .689

Folks... that's a .196 swing.

He had 3 year sin NE and they got steadily worse

Also in 2011 we had the 7th rank scoring defense giving up under 20 a game, and we had Lynch, and we had the LOB.

Also, we avg over 40 sacks a year over PCs first 2 without Wilson

Not saying Wilson was the only difference but for those who basically think he was an after thought in the first few years think again.
 

nwHawk

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These stats, coupled with a routed discussion about the total rebuild job that Pete and John did, have already been discussed. Why would you bring this up again?
 

AgentDib

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Russ was super important to those Super Bowl teams, and it helped a ton that he was playing on a rookie contract so that we could afford the top defense and highest paid OL. But it's completely misleading for you to post splits acting like Russ joining in 2012 is the reason why that team was good. He was one of many very good additions over that timeframe.

2010 was a terrific turnaround with a complete teardown and rebuild making the playoffs and knocking off the defending champs.

In 2011 the QB situation took a step back but the defense took several steps forward with KJ and Sherman contributing as rookies and earning starting roles as the season progressed. We also added Maxwell and Smith although neither contributed much yet.

In 2012 the defense took a gigantic step forward with the addition of Bobby Wagner, Jeremy Lane, DeShawn Shead, Bruce Irvin, and Jason Jones.

In 2013 we further bolstered the DL with Avril, Bennett and McDaniel, had further improvement from our rookies, and became one of the all time top defenses in history. There were a ton of great players on those 2013 and 2014 Super Bowl teams.
 

Spin Doctor

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This has been discussed many times here. Let us get one thing straight, this Super Bowl would have not happened without Carroll. I've been one of his biggest detractors here for years now, but the team he put together was something only he could have done. Yes, it doesn't happen without Wilson, but let us be honest here -- not many would have given Wilson the opportunity he got.

Carroll came in with a unique perspective. He valued the types of players that others didn't want any part of. He wanted big, strong physical corners at the LOS that would maul receivers with a rangey safety guarding the backside. Carroll also wanted a sort of safety, LB hybrid. A guy that could roam the LOS, but cover when needed, enter Kam Chancellor. The final piece of the puzzle was an undersized LB/DE hybrid sort of players, which is part of the reason why he got Avril and Clemons for so cheap.

Carroll saw a few things, a LB/SS hybrid safety made it hard to run on his defenses, and also clogged passing lanes. A single high safety with range could compensate for this brute of a SS. Earl Thomas was really quick, and could cover a lot of ground. He was the keystone of that defense.

Carroll's unique views on defense created the way for some of the biggest values in the NFL. He also had an insider advantage seeing, and in many cases trying to recruit many of these kids. He tried to get Irvin on the USC Trojans, Doug Baldwin was a receiver in his division, Sherman was as well. Browner, Golden Tate, Miller, Malcolm Smith, Earl Thomas, Michael Bennett are all players that he scouted against and saw first hand in games. I think I'm even missing a few here. Carroll had an advantage in this regard over just about anyone else in the NFL.

Only Carroll could have assembled the best defense of the 2010s in a passing, and offensive dominated NFL. Unfortunately like all good things, they eventually come to an end. I personally think Carroll has a served his purpose as the Seahawk HC. We've gone as far as we're going to go with him, and I think staying with him is going to just lead to an inevitable slow decline.

Carroll's fresh vision in the NFL is old and stale, as rule changes, and others adopting his schemes have really neutered his potential player base. He hasn't adapted to these things, as well as having to pay Wilson and other star players particularly well. He still approaches the game as if he has that vaunted defense. If Carroll had the defense of a generation, this is how you would probably want him to approach the game. Unfortunately he is approaching the game the same way when his offense is the clear strength of the team. This in lies the problem with Carroll, he is extremely rigid and controlling. He always defaults back to this default state and he seems to be unwilling to relent down the stretches. He'll say all of the right things, but as soon as the NFL runs into its first bump, he uses it as an excuse to continue the status quo -- which is why we're in the situation we are right now.

Carroll is turning 70 during the 2021 NFL season. He's 2 years from becoming the oldest HC in NFL history. I think it is time we move on if it is between Wilson and Carroll and Carroll cannot mend the situation. Personally I think we should move on now, but that is just me. I know it won't happen and I know it is still the unpopular opinion.
 

xray

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Spin Doctor":1qv4vt5z said:
This has been discussed many times here. Let us get one thing straight, this Super Bowl would have not happened without Carroll. I've been one of his biggest detractors here for years now, but the team he put together was something only he could have done. Yes, it doesn't happen without Wilson, but let us be honest here -- not many would have given Wilson the opportunity he got.

Carroll came in with a unique perspective. He valued the types of players that others didn't want any part of. He wanted big, strong physical corners at the LOS that would maul receivers with a rangey safety guarding the backside. Carroll also wanted a sort of safety, LB hybrid. A guy that could roam the LOS, but cover when needed, enter Kam Chancellor. The final piece of the puzzle was an undersized LB/DE hybrid sort of players, which is part of the reason why he got Avril and Clemons for so cheap.

Carroll saw a few things, a LB/SS hybrid safety made it hard to run on his defenses, and also clogged passing lanes. A single high safety with range could compensate for this brute of a SS. Earl Thomas was really quick, and could cover a lot of ground. He was the keystone of that defense.

Carroll's unique views on defense created the way for some of the biggest values in the NFL. He also had an insider advantage seeing, and in many cases trying to recruit many of these kids. He tried to get Irvin on the USC Trojans, Doug Baldwin was a receiver in his division, Sherman was as well. Browner, Golden Tate, Miller, Malcolm Smith, Earl Thomas, Michael Bennett are all players that he scouted against and saw first hand in games. I think I'm even missing a few here. Carroll had an advantage in this regard over just about anyone else in the NFL.

Only Carroll could have assembled the best defense of the 2010s in a passing, and offensive dominated NFL. Unfortunately like all good things, they eventually come to an end. I personally think Carroll has a served his purpose as the Seahawk HC. We've gone as far as we're going to go with him, and I think staying with him is going to just lead to an inevitable slow decline.

Carroll's fresh vision in the NFL is old and stale, as rule changes, and others adopting his schemes have really neutered his potential player base. He hasn't adapted to these things, as well as having to pay Wilson and other star players particularly well. He still approaches the game as if he has that vaunted defense. If Carroll had the defense of a generation, this is how you would probably want him to approach the game. Unfortunately he is approaching the game the same way when his offense is the clear strength of the team. This in lies the problem with Carroll, he is extremely rigid and controlling. He always defaults back to this default state and he seems to be unwilling to relent down the stretches. He'll say all of the right things, but as soon as the NFL runs into its first bump, he uses it as an excuse to continue the status quo -- which is why we're in the situation we are right now.

Carroll is turning 70 during the 2021 NFL season. He's 2 years from becoming the oldest HC in NFL history. I think it is time we move on if it is between Wilson and Carroll and Carroll cannot mend the situation. Personally I think we should move on now, but that is just me. I know it won't happen and I know it is still the unpopular opinion.

I would bet that behind closed doors Carroll would say that he and the Hawks could do just fine without Wilson . If he thought different he would have squelched these rumors by now . JS would probably say something but he does nothing without Carroll's permission . Situations like these are usually dealt with by ownership in the end but Jody Allen seems to be a hands off owner and has given most of the power to Carroll . IMO
 
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