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Pass D

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Pass D
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:44 am
  • What are you guys thinking? I agree with letting Shaq walk. I liked him as a Hawk but 13.3M a year was steep.

    I like our safety core. Would love to see JA pick up on coverage but let’s be honest, he’s a blitzing machine. I’m fine with that. I know people don’t like what we dealt for him. It’s not personal but rather position depth and impact related. Idk...he brings intangibles that you just can’t teach. I’m still happy we made the trade and look forward to a healthy Adams this year. I feel like he’s by far our best defensive player (even with the coverage concerns).

    My main concern is with corner. Flowers HAS to step up. Oddly enough, I felt like there were times where he played tighter than Shaq but then there were times where you see him lining up 7-8 yards or more off the line. A lot of these plays were obviously (as close as obvious gets in the NFL) runs or screens. Head scratcher for sure.

    Last thing...I expect big things out of Blair. He was coming along just fine until that KJ incident.

    We have A LOT of needs but I wouldn’t be surprised to see us going for a CB on our first pick.
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Re: Pass D
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:48 am
  • Once they tightened up their severe communication issues, they played fairly well. Shaquill had an amazing second season as CB1, but his play dipped this past year a bit.

    Reed and Witherspoon wouldn't be a terrible duo, assuming Reed continues to play well and Witherspoon plays near baseline league average. Flowers is totally fine as a 3rd outside corner. Blair and Amadi figure to continue being promising as they handle slot duty and move around, and the safety tandem is one of the premier duos in the league.

    Corner could be improved, but they're not a glaring weakness with the addition of Ahkello.
    Last edited by Maelstrom787 on Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pass D
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:49 am
  • Could’ve edited but...one more thing. Does Sherm have more in the tank. Would he be willing to come back? The experience alone would be valuable to our guys.

    I’m not sold on Witherspoon. Then there’s Dunbar. After last year, I’d think we have a good shot a resigning but, you never know. Would we even want to? He was good in Washington but, we never saw any of that due to an injury riddled season.

    Edit...left out Reed. He was definitely a ballhawk. I do project him being our 1.
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Re: Pass D
Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:19 am
  • The signing I want to see over the weekend is Dunlap coming back for 13-14M per year on a two year deal.
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Re: Pass D
Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:24 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:The signing I want to see over the weekend is Dunlap coming back for 13-14M per year on a two year deal.


    Agree with this.
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Re: Pass D
Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:26 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:The signing I want to see over the weekend is Dunlap coming back for 13-14M per year on a two year deal.


    Amen. Defense didnt become adequate until he was signed.
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Re: Pass D
Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:08 pm
  • Coverage isnt the issue with Adam's. He is consistently tight coverage and in the right place. Would have had like 5 pics this year except dropsies. Only thing he lacks is hands.
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Re: Pass D
Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:58 pm
  • Agree with those who want Dunlap back, if we can re-sign both him and Mayowa and maybe add another FA CB as depth we could be a top half D.

    Blair and Taylor should be coming back next year which will feel like new signings, plus Brooks getting more playing time. I think Adams will be find in coverage too when he has two working shoulders to play with.

    I'd like to see Bruce Irvin back too on a vet minimum if he can get healthy, just to add more speed and depth.
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Re: Pass D
Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:45 pm
  • I'd like to see them beef up the interior DL. QBs could stand in the pocket all day and slice them. Kawann Short is FA. I'm not sold on Mone. Reed is meh - had one stellar year and got overpaid because of it. Getting pressure on the QB will also benefit the Pass D. The Giants don't have the best secondary but they seem to do well because they have a decent DL who gets to the QB.
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Re: Pass D
Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:26 pm
  • hawkfan68 wrote:I'd like to see them beef up the interior DL. QBs could stand in the pocket all day and slice them. Kawann Short is FA. I'm not sold on Mone. Reed is meh - had one stellar year and got overpaid because of it. Getting pressure on the QB will also benefit the Pass D. The Giants don't have the best secondary but they seem to do well because they have a decent DL who gets to the QB.


    Very true. You could have Josh Norman and Sherman in their heyday but if the QB has all day.....
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Re: Pass D
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:35 pm
  • jamescasey1124 wrote:Coverage isnt the issue with Adam's. He is consistently tight coverage and in the right place. Would have had like 5 pics this year except dropsies. Only thing he lacks is hands.



    I'm sure he will get better once he gets paid, they always do.
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Re: Pass D
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:47 pm
  • Fade wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:Coverage isnt the issue with Adam's. He is consistently tight coverage and in the right place. Would have had like 5 pics this year except dropsies. Only thing he lacks is hands.



    I'm sure he will get better once he gets paid, they always do.


    Pff is crap just like no one on our line gave up up more than 4 sacks but somehow russ got sacked 47 times. I guess 30 plus sacks were on russ, rbs and tes. Pff sucks.
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Re: Pass D
Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:55 am
  • I think Carroll knows now, not to leave the defensive line as is. The teams struggled mightily on pass defense without consistent pressure with the defensive line.

    Carroll will probably go find some aging defensive lineman in hopes he has a year or two more, motivate him, while paying him pennies on the dollar instead of some high priced free agent.

    And then he’ll draft some additional rotational project guys to hopefully fill some void.

    Just my guess.
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Re: Pass D
Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:33 am
  • I have a different take on the defensive line .............

    As I recall, Carroll made the season ending remark that they are counting on their young developmental linemen to step up in 2021. That includes multiple competitors we fans have yet to see in Seahawks uniforms.

    I feel some what confident that they have the 3 down personnel to attend to the inside. On the outside there is probably an opportunity for a vet to bring an experienced wrinkle to the position group. But all in all. I'm thinking the staff is betting on their young competitors.

    We'll See :biggthumpup: Never know when an opportunity will present itself.
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Re: Pass D
Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:44 am
  • More proven edge help and another CB would be nice to help solidify the pass D.

    Dunlap or ???, Dunbar or ???.

    Please JS get this done soon.
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Re: Pass D
Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:01 pm

Re: Pass D
Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:16 pm
  • Geno Atkins had a great career. But, he has already played his best ball.

    The best of Jarran Reed and Poona Ford and Bryan Mone is yet to come. All of whom have experience playing together.

    Jarran Reed is the establish leader on that defensive line.
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Re: Pass D
Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:54 pm
  • Jville wrote:Geno Atkins had a great career. But, he has already played his best ball.

    The best of Jarran Reed and Poona Ford and Bryan Mone is yet to come. All of whom have experience playing together.

    Jarran Reed is the establish leader on that defensive line.


    You're right about Atkins, but if we could get him on a low-cost deal to add him to the rotation he could still be a force.
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Re: Pass D
Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:55 pm
  • Something to keep in mind when thinking about pass coverage ...............
    Image
    ...................... with the addition of Jamal Adams and Ken Norton's fondness for dialing up the zone blitz, we may see Seahawk edge coverage move to the top of that list.
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Re: Pass D
Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:35 am
  • Jville wrote:Geno Atkins had a great career. But, he has already played his best ball.

    The best of Jarran Reed and Poona Ford and Bryan Mone is yet to come. All of whom have experience playing together.

    Jarran Reed is the establish leader on that defensive line.


    The interior DL must improve. It's not good enough as is right now. The problem hasn't been edge rush, the problem is rush up the middle. QBs could stand in the pocket and slice the Seahawks. Not enough consistent pressure up the middle. Poona Ford is great. I love his effort and he is the most consistent player on the line. He's just not a pass rusher from the interior. Pair him up with Atkins or Short and that's makings of a solid DL. Reed is not worth $11.5M that the Seahawks are paying him.

    I just don't want to see Atkins or Short on the Cards, 49ers, or the Rams. I have a feeling one of those teams will grab them, probably the Cards since they seem to have no salary cap and can add anyone at will.
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Re: Pass D
Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:00 pm
  • Fade wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:Coverage isnt the issue with Adam's. He is consistently tight coverage and in the right place. Would have had like 5 pics this year except dropsies. Only thing he lacks is hands.



    I'm sure he will get better once he gets paid, they always do.

    Lets be fair to Adams..He played with broken fingers(multiple)
    A torn labrum which affects arms motion and strength.
    He also hurt the other shoulder..He tried to play but damn he was
    not even 70% with all those injuries for sure.
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Re: Pass D
Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:28 pm
  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:Coverage isnt the issue with Adam's. He is consistently tight coverage and in the right place. Would have had like 5 pics this year except dropsies. Only thing he lacks is hands.



    I'm sure he will get better once he gets paid, they always do.


    Pff is crap just like no one on our line gave up up more than 4 sacks but somehow russ got sacked 47 times. I guess 30 plus sacks were on russ, rbs and tes. Pff sucks.

    PFF considers a successful pass block to be 2.5 seconds. After that, the sack is someone else's fault. Russell Wilson was the 5th slowest to get rid of the ball in 2020 at an average of 2.97 seconds to throw, so statistically speaking he is going to take more sacks where his linemen made successful pass blocks than someone like Ben Roethlisburger, who got he ball away on average in 2.3 seconds.
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Re: Pass D
Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:50 pm
  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    Fade wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:Coverage isnt the issue with Adam's. He is consistently tight coverage and in the right place. Would have had like 5 pics this year except dropsies. Only thing he lacks is hands.



    I'm sure he will get better once he gets paid, they always do.


    Pff is crap just like no one on our line gave up up more than 4 sacks but somehow russ got sacked 47 times. I guess 30 plus sacks were on russ, rbs and tes. Pff sucks.

    PFF considers a successful pass block to be 2.5 seconds. After that, the sack is someone else's fault. Russell Wilson was the 5th slowest to get rid of the ball in 2020 at an average of 2.97 seconds to throw, so statistically speaking he is going to take more sacks where his linemen made successful pass blocks than someone like Ben Roethlisburger, who got he ball away on average in 2.3 seconds.


    Again pff is crap. There is a lot more that goes into a play then 3 seconds and it's over. Plus I'm sick if the whole holds the ball crap. There was a post in this forum a month ago that compared him to other qbs and he was pretty spot on.

    So according to pff. Lineman can just let their blocks go and it wont be on them after 2.5? Great mindset to have. That's horse $h!t. How because football players know to go until the whistle blows.
    Last edited by jamescasey1124 on Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pass D
Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:55 pm
  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    Fade wrote:

    I'm sure he will get better once he gets paid, they always do.


    Pff is crap just like no one on our line gave up up more than 4 sacks but somehow russ got sacked 47 times. I guess 30 plus sacks were on russ, rbs and tes. Pff sucks.

    PFF considers a successful pass block to be 2.5 seconds. After that, the sack is someone else's fault. Russell Wilson was the 5th slowest to get rid of the ball in 2020 at an average of 2.97 seconds to throw, so statistically speaking he is going to take more sacks where his linemen made successful pass blocks than someone like Ben Roethlisburger, who got he ball away on average in 2.3 seconds.


    Again o
    Pff .is crap. There is a lot more that goes into a play then 3 seconds and it's over. Plus I'm sick if the whole holds the ball crap. There was a post in this forum a month ago that compared him to other qbs and he was pretty spot on.

    So according to pff. Lineman can just let their blocks go and it wont be on them after 2.5? Great mindset to have. That's horse $h!t. How because football players know to go until the whistle blows.


    Yes, and if the whistle is taking significantly longer to blow, you can expect the linemen to have a harder job and therefore the number of sacks to increase.
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Re: Pass D
Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:22 pm
  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    Fade wrote:

    I'm sure he will get better once he gets paid, they always do.


    Pff is crap just like no one on our line gave up up more than 4 sacks but somehow russ got sacked 47 times. I guess 30 plus sacks were on russ, rbs and tes. Pff sucks.

    PFF considers a successful pass block to be 2.5 seconds. After that, the sack is someone else's fault. Russell Wilson was the 5th slowest to get rid of the ball in 2020 at an average of 2.97 seconds to throw, so statistically speaking he is going to take more sacks where his linemen made successful pass blocks than someone like Ben Roethlisburger, who got he ball away on average in 2.3 seconds.


    Again o
    Pff .is crap. There is a lot more that goes into a play then 3 seconds and it's over. Plus I'm sick if the whole holds the ball crap. There was a post in this forum a month ago that compared him to other qbs and he was pretty spot on.

    So according to pff. Lineman can just let their blocks go and it wont be on them after 2.5? Great mindset to have. That's horse $h!t. How because football players know to go until the whistle blows.

    Somehow I don't think their stat makes any linemen just give up blocking after 2.5 seconds. The stat is derived from the average time to throw (note: derived from, not equal to).

    So it's really he other way around - the game determines the stat, not the stat determines the game.

    But the fact of the matter is that Wilson is 5th-slowest in the NFL to get rid of the ball, regardless of what some post said. Every half-second, an opponent can travel around 4-5 yards, so time holding the ball matters.
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Re: Pass D
Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:35 pm
  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    Pff is crap just like no one on our line gave up up more than 4 sacks but somehow russ got sacked 47 times. I guess 30 plus sacks were on russ, rbs and tes. Pff sucks.

    PFF considers a successful pass block to be 2.5 seconds. After that, the sack is someone else's fault. Russell Wilson was the 5th slowest to get rid of the ball in 2020 at an average of 2.97 seconds to throw, so statistically speaking he is going to take more sacks where his linemen made successful pass blocks than someone like Ben Roethlisburger, who got he ball away on average in 2.3 seconds.


    Again o
    Pff .is crap. There is a lot more that goes into a play then 3 seconds and it's over. Plus I'm sick if the whole holds the ball crap. There was a post in this forum a month ago that compared him to other qbs and he was pretty spot on.

    So according to pff. Lineman can just let their blocks go and it wont be on them after 2.5? Great mindset to have. That's horse $h!t. How because football players know to go until the whistle blows.

    Somehow I don't think their stat makes any linemen just give up blocking after 2.5 seconds. The stat is derived from the average time to throw (note: derived from, not equal to).

    So it's really he other way around - the game determines the stat, not the stat determines the game.

    But the fact of the matter is that Wilson is 5th-slowest in the NFL to get rid of the ball, regardless of what some post said. Every half-second, an opponent can travel around 4-5 yards, so time holding the ball matters.


    Where its derived and what ever you feel like it means is not the same for me. That's the problem. Oline isnt supposed to give up ever. It's a fight. 1 second or 5 seconds. Win the fight that's it. Maybe instead of conforming they change the norm. I mean yes...obviously...everything in life is harder as time passes and you get exhausted. However, these guys make amazing amounts of money to play sports. O line is tough, but I'm not going to make excuses for any of them. I know how fast they get to the qb. You can say russ holds the ball all you want. Dont give a dam. Cuz it's not the whole truth. I would love to see you play qb in less than 2.5 seconds with the hawks o line and our poor passing concepts of last year.
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Re: Pass D
Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:55 pm
  • jamescasey1124 wrote:I would love to see you play qb in less than 2.5 seconds with the hawks o line and our poor passing concepts of last year.


    You are a better poster than this phrase James. There is maybe ten people on the planet who can do that as successfully as Wilson and you throw that out to someone posting on a forum. Such things are not worthy of you.
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Re: Pass D
Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:28 pm
  • BASF wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:I would love to see you play qb in less than 2.5 seconds with the hawks o line and our poor passing concepts of last year.


    You are a better poster than this phrase James. There is maybe ten people on the planet who can do that as successfully as Wilson and you throw that out to someone posting on a forum. Such things are not worthy of you.


    Ehhh idk.

    Tired of the whole hold the ball to long ideal. As a qb you hold the ball until someone is open, take off or take a sack. Sure we can throw it away, but it's just a waste of down anyway.

    Anyway. This was about pass d and we got into russ once again.
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Re: Pass D
Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:52 pm
  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    BASF wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:I would love to see you play qb in less than 2.5 seconds with the hawks o line and our poor passing concepts of last year.


    You are a better poster than this phrase James. There is maybe ten people on the planet who can do that as successfully as Wilson and you throw that out to someone posting on a forum. Such things are not worthy of you.


    Ehhh idk.

    Tired of the whole hold the ball to long ideal. As a qb you hold the ball until someone is open, take off or take a sack. Sure we can throw it away, but it's just a waste of down anyway.

    Anyway. This was about pass d and we got into russ once again.


    Good on you for recognizing a hijack :2thumbs:

    I'm hoping, that eventually, the lane discipline and coverage discipline demonstrated by our Seahawks defense will inspire improved subject discipline by our posting forum.

    One can hope. :D

    I like the defensive core they are assembling for 2021. Looking forward to seeing who all they add on the edge.
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