6 DE now on roster - are any even average?

jammerhawk":3ofs6ckq said:

I see Hyder as a 5 tech/situational 3 tech in Seattle's D instead of being a pure base end. I see him as being more of reserve interior DLine man or base DE with some size and pass rush skills. He got 8.5 sacks last season. Here is a draft profile:
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/kerry-hyd ... e54b3870f0

I don't see the team as being out the running for Dunlap or even Clowney yet as the market for DE's is cooling quickly and those two guys have either age or injury issues. Time will tell.

This could be a sneaky good acquisition.

Click to expand...

A-Dog":3a93ejjp said:

Hawks have three positions on the D-Line now:

NT (0/1-Tech)
Ford
Mone
(Reed)

DT/Big End (3/4/5-Tech)
Reed
Collier
Green
Hyder
Lattimore

LEO/SAM (7/9-Tech)
Mayowa
Robinson
Taylor
(Green)

I'm guessing we'll see another Leo/SAM, possibly two, before the season starts.

Click to expand...

jamescasey1124":yyxnwlk5 said:

A-Dog":yyxnwlk5 said:

Hawks have three positions on the D-Line now:

NT (0/1-Tech)
Ford
Mone
(Reed)

DT/Big End (3/4/5-Tech)
Reed
Collier
Green
Hyder
Lattimore

LEO/SAM (7/9-Tech)
Mayowa
Robinson
Taylor
(Green)

I'm guessing we'll see another Leo/SAM, possibly two, before the season starts.

Click to expand...

This doesnt make sense. At times the use 3 down lineman with kj down at the line of scrimmage. That is only to allow Bobby and brooks on the field at the same time with 5 dbs. However, they mostly roll with four down lineman.

Click to expand...

While there's no question the addition of defensive end Carlos Dunlap and improving chemistry in the defensive backfield have been catalysts for the rapid turnaround. after being the scapegoat during Seattle's first half struggles, defensive coordinator Ken Norton Jr. also deserves praise for schematic adaptations that have played a role in the much improved play on that side of the ball.

Most notably, the Seahawks have been deploying "bear" fronts featuring three defensive tackles, two edge rushers, and two off-ball linebackers with increasing frequency. When asked about the adjustment, coach Pete Carroll credited Norton for getting the most out of the team's personnel defensively, including safety Jamal Adams and linebacker Jordyn Brooks.

"You have seen us adapt to our personnel and we have -we have enough background that we can do a lot of things," Carroll elaborated. "We have been through so much over the years and I think Kenny [Norton] is exhibiting that to you [through] the use of our talent. And Jamal's part of it, Jordyn [Brooks] coming to us as well is part of it. And absolutely it fits, like we have said to you, about Carlos, his work as a nine technique which puts him outside edge on, to the field in our defense, puts him exactly where he can be really most effective."

How does the "bear" front work? Up front, the Seahawks have a nose tackle in 0-tech alignment head up across from the center. Two other defensive tackles line up in 3-tech or sometimes 4i-alignment either shading the B-gap or the inside shoulder of the opposing tackle. On the outside, two defensive ends/hybrid linebackers are split out wide in 9-alignment and can either rush the quarterback or drop into coverage.

This season, Poona Ford has primarily played the nose tackle role, while Jarran Reed, L.J. Collier, and Rasheem Green have been seeing most of the snaps at the 3-tech spots and Dunlap or Benson Mayowa has been wide at one of the end spots. K.J. Wright, playing the SAM linebacker role, has normally been at the other wide-9 position off edge.

Click to expand...

jammerhawk":j4kxnuhr said:

I see Hyder as a 5 tech/situational 3 tech in Seattle's D instead of being a pure base end. I see him as being more of reserve interior DLine man or base DE with some size and pass rush skills. He got 8.5 sacks last season. Here is a draft profile:
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/kerry-hyd ... e54b3870f0

I don't see the team as being out the running for Dunlap or even Clowney yet as the market for DE's is cooling quickly and those two guys have either age or injury issues. Time will tell.

This could be a sneaky good acquisition.

Click to expand...

A-Dog":1t9ai88b said:

jamescasey1124":1t9ai88b said:

A-Dog":1t9ai88b said:

Hawks have three positions on the D-Line now:

NT (0/1-Tech)
Ford
Mone
(Reed)

DT/Big End (3/4/5-Tech)
Reed
Collier
Green
Hyder
Lattimore

LEO/SAM (7/9-Tech)
Mayowa
Robinson
Taylor
(Green)

I'm guessing we'll see another Leo/SAM, possibly two, before the season starts.

Click to expand...

This doesnt make sense. At times the use 3 down lineman with kj down at the line of scrimmage. That is only to allow Bobby and brooks on the field at the same time with 5 dbs. However, they mostly roll with four down lineman.

Click to expand...

This isn't true - they went with heavy Bear fronts (which is not new for the Seahawks, it was just used a lot more last season) which is more or less a 5-2 with the SS also in the box. I couldn't find the percentage that this front was used but it was a lot.

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/film-breakdown-understanding-basics-of-seahawks-bear-front

While there's no question the addition of defensive end Carlos Dunlap and improving chemistry in the defensive backfield have been catalysts for the rapid turnaround. after being the scapegoat during Seattle's first half struggles, defensive coordinator Ken Norton Jr. also deserves praise for schematic adaptations that have played a role in the much improved play on that side of the ball.

Most notably, the Seahawks have been deploying "bear" fronts featuring three defensive tackles, two edge rushers, and two off-ball linebackers with increasing frequency. When asked about the adjustment, coach Pete Carroll credited Norton for getting the most out of the team's personnel defensively, including safety Jamal Adams and linebacker Jordyn Brooks.

"You have seen us adapt to our personnel and we have -we have enough background that we can do a lot of things," Carroll elaborated. "We have been through so much over the years and I think Kenny [Norton] is exhibiting that to you [through] the use of our talent. And Jamal's part of it, Jordyn [Brooks] coming to us as well is part of it. And absolutely it fits, like we have said to you, about Carlos, his work as a nine technique which puts him outside edge on, to the field in our defense, puts him exactly where he can be really most effective."

How does the "bear" front work? Up front, the Seahawks have a nose tackle in 0-tech alignment head up across from the center. Two other defensive tackles line up in 3-tech or sometimes 4i-alignment either shading the B-gap or the inside shoulder of the opposing tackle. On the outside, two defensive ends/hybrid linebackers are split out wide in 9-alignment and can either rush the quarterback or drop into coverage.

This season, Poona Ford has primarily played the nose tackle role, while Jarran Reed, L.J. Collier, and Rasheem Green have been seeing most of the snaps at the 3-tech spots and Dunlap or Benson Mayowa has been wide at one of the end spots. K.J. Wright, playing the SAM linebacker role, has normally been at the other wide-9 position off edge.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

renofox":1nb3w7n9 said:

player / sacks / seasons / avg
Hyder - 18.5 / 5 / 3.7
Mayowa - 26 / 8 / 3.2
Green - 7 / 3 / 2.3
Collier - 3 / 2 / 1.5
Robinson - 4 / 1 / 4
Taylor - 0 / 0 / 0

Total 58.5 / 19 / 3.1

for comparison/reference: Dunlap 87.5 / 11 / 8

No disrespect intended to any of the players, but this has to be the saddest depth chart in the NFL for the DE position.

I'm sure PCJS will sign some actual starting quality DEs this year, just like they have the last couple years.....

edit: added Dunlap for comparison to an actual starting level DE. Not elite, just starter material.

Click to expand...

KiwiHawk":lebo57ru said:

renofox":lebo57ru said:

player / sacks / seasons / avg
Hyder - 18.5 / 5 / 3.7
Mayowa - 26 / 8 / 3.2
Green - 7 / 3 / 2.3
Collier - 3 / 2 / 1.5
Robinson - 4 / 1 / 4
Taylor - 0 / 0 / 0

Total 58.5 / 19 / 3.1

for comparison/reference: Dunlap 87.5 / 11 / 8

No disrespect intended to any of the players, but this has to be the saddest depth chart in the NFL for the DE position.

I'm sure PCJS will sign some actual starting quality DEs this year, just like they have the last couple years.....

edit: added Dunlap for comparison to an actual starting level DE. Not elite, just starter material.

Click to expand...

Wow, way to misrepresent with statistics!

Hyder had 8.5 sacks and 34 QB pressures last year, but including the years when he was used sparingly you can make it look like he only gets 3.7 per season. Dunlap had 6 sacks last year, but it looks like he's an 8-sack guy.

Why did you present the stats so as to create a negative narrative?

Click to expand...

A-Dog":1zpkzhza said:

jamescasey1124":1zpkzhza said:

A-Dog":1zpkzhza said:

Hawks have three positions on the D-Line now:

NT (0/1-Tech)
Ford
Mone
(Reed)

DT/Big End (3/4/5-Tech)
Reed
Collier
Green
Hyder
Lattimore

LEO/SAM (7/9-Tech)
Mayowa
Robinson
Taylor
(Green)

I'm guessing we'll see another Leo/SAM, possibly two, before the season starts.

Click to expand...

This doesnt make sense. At times the use 3 down lineman with kj down at the line of scrimmage. That is only to allow Bobby and brooks on the field at the same time with 5 dbs. However, they mostly roll with four down lineman.

Click to expand...

This isn't true - they went with heavy Bear fronts (which is not new for the Seahawks, it was just used a lot more last season) which is more or less a 5-2 with the SS also in the box. I couldn't find the percentage that this front was used but it was a lot.

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/film-breakdown-understanding-basics-of-seahawks-bear-front

While there's no question the addition of defensive end Carlos Dunlap and improving chemistry in the defensive backfield have been catalysts for the rapid turnaround. after being the scapegoat during Seattle's first half struggles, defensive coordinator Ken Norton Jr. also deserves praise for schematic adaptations that have played a role in the much improved play on that side of the ball.

Most notably, the Seahawks have been deploying "bear" fronts featuring three defensive tackles, two edge rushers, and two off-ball linebackers with increasing frequency. When asked about the adjustment, coach Pete Carroll credited Norton for getting the most out of the team's personnel defensively, including safety Jamal Adams and linebacker Jordyn Brooks.

"You have seen us adapt to our personnel and we have -we have enough background that we can do a lot of things," Carroll elaborated. "We have been through so much over the years and I think Kenny [Norton] is exhibiting that to you [through] the use of our talent. And Jamal's part of it, Jordyn [Brooks] coming to us as well is part of it. And absolutely it fits, like we have said to you, about Carlos, his work as a nine technique which puts him outside edge on, to the field in our defense, puts him exactly where he can be really most effective."

How does the "bear" front work? Up front, the Seahawks have a nose tackle in 0-tech alignment head up across from the center. Two other defensive tackles line up in 3-tech or sometimes 4i-alignment either shading the B-gap or the inside shoulder of the opposing tackle. On the outside, two defensive ends/hybrid linebackers are split out wide in 9-alignment and can either rush the quarterback or drop into coverage.

This season, Poona Ford has primarily played the nose tackle role, while Jarran Reed, L.J. Collier, and Rasheem Green have been seeing most of the snaps at the 3-tech spots and Dunlap or Benson Mayowa has been wide at one of the end spots. K.J. Wright, playing the SAM linebacker role, has normally been at the other wide-9 position off edge.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Maulbert":3vybwc5x said:

KiwiHawk":3vybwc5x said:

renofox":3vybwc5x said:

player / sacks / seasons / avg
Hyder - 18.5 / 5 / 3.7
Mayowa - 26 / 8 / 3.2
Green - 7 / 3 / 2.3
Collier - 3 / 2 / 1.5
Robinson - 4 / 1 / 4
Taylor - 0 / 0 / 0

Total 58.5 / 19 / 3.1

for comparison/reference: Dunlap 87.5 / 11 / 8

No disrespect intended to any of the players, but this has to be the saddest depth chart in the NFL for the DE position.

I'm sure PCJS will sign some actual starting quality DEs this year, just like they have the last couple years.....

edit: added Dunlap for comparison to an actual starting level DE. Not elite, just starter material.

Click to expand...

Wow, way to misrepresent with statistics!

Hyder had 8.5 sacks and 34 QB pressures last year, but including the years when he was used sparingly you can make it look like he only gets 3.7 per season. Dunlap had 6 sacks last year, but it looks like he's an 8-sack guy.

Why did you present the stats so as to create a negative narrative?

Click to expand...

Because that's what pessimists do.

Click to expand...

renofox":kjnp8633 said:

Maulbert":kjnp8633 said:

KiwiHawk":kjnp8633 said:

renofox":kjnp8633 said:

player / sacks / seasons / avg
Hyder - 18.5 / 5 / 3.7
Mayowa - 26 / 8 / 3.2
Green - 7 / 3 / 2.3
Collier - 3 / 2 / 1.5
Robinson - 4 / 1 / 4
Taylor - 0 / 0 / 0

Total 58.5 / 19 / 3.1

for comparison/reference: Dunlap 87.5 / 11 / 8

No disrespect intended to any of the players, but this has to be the saddest depth chart in the NFL for the DE position.

I'm sure PCJS will sign some actual starting quality DEs this year, just like they have the last couple years.....

edit: added Dunlap for comparison to an actual starting level DE. Not elite, just starter material.

Click to expand...

Wow, way to misrepresent with statistics!

Hyder had 8.5 sacks and 34 QB pressures last year, but including the years when he was used sparingly you can make it look like he only gets 3.7 per season. Dunlap had 6 sacks last year, but it looks like he's an 8-sack guy.

Why did you present the stats so as to create a negative narrative?

Click to expand...

Because that's what pessimists do.

Click to expand...

It's sad that facts contrary to the narrative hurt your feelings. I am now more optimistic since PCJS have actually added a starting level (i.e.; player who has shown consistent production) DE in Dunlap.

For those who believe that the Seahawks have seriously improved the DL - we have basically the same players as last year +Hyder -Reed. Assuming that Taylor, Robinson, et al are going to dramatically increase their productivity is just that - an assumption. I can hope they end up being a good DL, but I'd be an idiot to predict it or count on it.

Click to expand...

Maulbert":33k7eszq said:

renofox":33k7eszq said:

Maulbert":33k7eszq said:

KiwiHawk":33k7eszq said:

Wow, way to misrepresent with statistics!

Hyder had 8.5 sacks and 34 QB pressures last year, but including the years when he was used sparingly you can make it look like he only gets 3.7 per season. Dunlap had 6 sacks last year, but it looks like he's an 8-sack guy.

Why did you present the stats so as to create a negative narrative?

Click to expand...

Because that's what pessimists do.

Click to expand...

It's sad that facts contrary to the narrative hurt your feelings. I am now more optimistic since PCJS have actually added a starting level (i.e.; player who has shown consistent production) DE in Dunlap.

For those who believe that the Seahawks have seriously improved the DL - we have basically the same players as last year +Hyder -Reed. Assuming that Taylor, Robinson, et al are going to dramatically increase their productivity is just that - an assumption. I can hope they end up being a good DL, but I'd be an idiot to predict it or count on it.

Click to expand...

I'm not saying they were vastly improved, but your framing of the statistics was disingenuous, at best. Hyder has only played over 41% of his teams defensive snaps twice in his career: 64% in 2016 and 70% in 2020. Over 2/3 of his career snaps were from those seasons, and 16.5 of his 18.5 career sacks, as well. If a player doesn't see the field, he can't perform. He only averages 3.7 a year because he barely saw the field for 3 of them.

I'm sorry you can't present facts without a heaping dose of bias.

Click to expand...

JayhawkMike":11vbyr2s said:

Maulbert":11vbyr2s said:

renofox":11vbyr2s said:

Maulbert":11vbyr2s said:

Because that's what pessimists do.

Click to expand...

It's sad that facts contrary to the narrative hurt your feelings. I am now more optimistic since PCJS have actually added a starting level (i.e.; player who has shown consistent production) DE in Dunlap.

For those who believe that the Seahawks have seriously improved the DL - we have basically the same players as last year +Hyder -Reed. Assuming that Taylor, Robinson, et al are going to dramatically increase their productivity is just that - an assumption. I can hope they end up being a good DL, but I'd be an idiot to predict it or count on it.

Click to expand...

I'm not saying they were vastly improved, but your framing of the statistics was disingenuous, at best. Hyder has only played over 41% of his teams defensive snaps twice in his career: 64% in 2016 and 70% in 2020. Over 2/3 of his career snaps were from those seasons, and 16.5 of his 18.5 career sacks, as well. If a player doesn't see the field, he can't perform. He only averages 3.7 a year because he barely saw the field for 3 of them.

I'm sorry you can't present facts without a heaping dose of bias.

Click to expand...

So I don’t know much about this guy so either he hasn’t got as many snaps as a starter because he has been injured a lot or because his coaches didn’t think he was as good as the players in front of him. Not sure which.

Click to expand...