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From a player perspective how r we any better than last yr?

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  • From a player acquisition standpoint I'm sorry but outside of the Guard and maybe TE, not seeing how this team is any better than last year's if you include the subtractions that left.

    The only thing that we can hope for is a different gameplan from Pete and the coordinators.

    I know the cap room was low and they didn't have a lot of options but those that are saying how great the offseason has been I just don't see it at least to this point. Mostly the same underperforming group.
    seabowl
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  • While they may not be perceived as being any better, they surely haven’t gotten worse. They were a playoff team last season. They have been very active this off season thus far, even if it’s only to bring their own guys back. Sometimes continuity pays better dividends. Hopefully this is the case. They did upgrade th coaching staff on the offensive side and that’s a significant change for the players. This change may play more to their strengths. We’ll see. It’s not even April and this team seems different to me.
    hawkfan68
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  • seabowl wrote:From a player acquisition standpoint I'm sorry but outside of the Guard and maybe TE, not seeing how this team is any better than last year's if you include the subtractions that left.

    The only thing that we can hope for is a different gameplan from Pete and the coordinators.

    I know the cap room was low and they didn't have a lot of options but those that are saying how great the offseason has been I just don't see it at least to this point. Mostly the same underperforming group.


    How aren't they better?

    Retained star running back. Both starting receivers return. Significantly improved left guard. Signed a replacement for Quill who, realistically, plays at just as high of a level. Retained their best lineman in Dunlap while significantly improving the big end role with Hyder. Taylor coming in healthier, too.

    Expect a KJ re-signing too. They're better, and significantly so, pending even more acquisitions.
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  • seabowl wrote:From a player acquisition standpoint I'm sorry but outside of the Guard and maybe TE, not seeing how this team is any better than last year's if you include the subtractions that left.

    The only thing that we can hope for is a different gameplan from Pete and the coordinators.

    I know the cap room was low and they didn't have a lot of options but those that are saying how great the offseason has been I just don't see it at least to this point. Mostly the same underperforming group.


    I genuinely believe we have got better.

    LG- massive upgrade
    TE upgrade- Olsen non existent and Hollister not as good as the year before. Everett fits the new system.
    Pass Rush- KHJ will be a great fit, getting Mayowa back who played well when Dunlap arrived and now signing Dunlap who was our best rusher, for a lot less than we would’ve paid, not too mention a second year with us under his belt. Our Pass Rush is notably better than last year. Adams being at full health too helps.
    RB- getting Carson back was great for us, as long as he stays healthy. I also loved Collins at the end of the year. Hyde did fine but I’m not devastated he’s gone. Penny might actually be available all year too, so we’ll see what he has.

    Two big holes based on last year-
    Corner- Shaq was average. We could get Sherm or another vet or invest our first pic in the draft on a CB. I actually don’t see that much of a drop off.

    WR 3- Moore was average but made some decent catches. Not fully into Swain etc and there aren’t really any notable free agents left apart from Snead or Tate(probably never going to happen). So, we either hold out for the draft again or hope
    Gordon gets reinstated!

    Two semi holes-
    C- we could draft our center of the future. Pocic isn’t it but we didn’t spend on the big free agents and I’d hate for us to do a BJ Finney disaster again. For me it could be Blythe or a rookie battling it out for Center. Pocic didn’t get starter money.
    Barton/KJ- obviously Cody Barton isn’t the answer but Jordyn Brooks is there. We still need something. Would be great to get KJ back but I don’t know how we can afford him now unless his market crashes.

    I actually think it’s the best free agency we’ve had in a long time. No questions on the pass rush(Reed was ok but not worth the money). Remember last years nightmare until we signed Dunlap.

    I’m excited to see the new offensive game plan too.

    Overall, with the lack of draft picks, I thinks it’s forced their hand and that’s why we’ve seen more signings, pre draft, thank for a while. I’d love you to challenge why they haven’t got better from a personal stand point.
    ScottishHawk84
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  • They can still add Sherman, KJ and AB/Tate/Watkins through free agency. Wonder about Geno Atkins or another available DT too, or do they think Collier will be fine after he bulks up a bit.

    They need more draft capital somehow though.
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  • We're definitely not any better. Our divisional opponents are though, and we don't get the luxury of playing the AFC and NFC East this year. Wouldn't be surprised if we go from first to worst in the west this year.
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  • We are better on the edges already from the beginning of last year, Taylor, Dunlap, Hyder, Collier, Tackle we will get guys, we always do and or draft one, Safeties are settled, Nickle is anchored with Blair and Amadi, Reed on one corner the other is Witherspoon at the moment who has potential or Dunbar if they bring him back.

    We also have Mayowa, Irvin is the one guy I have not heard about yet as a resign unless I missed it and KJ that is rumored to be coming back.

    In the division we have pressure for Stafford, Garoppolo, and Murray. That will help the secondary tons, throw in the Adams blitz which he won't need to do as much and in when he does will be much more of a surprise and success.

    Just need to make sure we are stout against the run without needing to bring up help.
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  • seabowl wrote:From a player acquisition standpoint I'm sorry but outside of the Guard and maybe TE, not seeing how this team is any better than last year's if you include the subtractions that left.

    The only thing that we can hope for is a different gameplan from Pete and the coordinators.

    I know the cap room was low and they didn't have a lot of options but those that are saying how great the offseason has been I just don't see it at least to this point. Mostly the same underperforming group.


    I'm exercising patience. There is still plenty of roster construction left to do. Both the offense and defense are building on last years lessons and evolving into a 2021 roster. I don't find Ben Franklin charts all that insightful into a teams future prospects. There are a lot more variables in play.
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  • We're definitely better on our DL with today's moves with Dunlap and Reed. I always felt Reed was overpaid when we re-signed him last off-season. It was probably needed, but still needed at the time. But with the Hyder signing I think our line will be much better than the start of last season. Also Brooks came on towards the end of the season and should be even better this year. Barton is serviceable if Wright doesn't return. But our safeties will be much better with Blair returning and Neal getting experience last year. Probably our CB's will be a little weak to start, but hopefully we can work around with with a stronger pass rush.

    Our O-line is going to be better just by Jackson with his experience and Lewis with a year under his belt. Give us a quality draft pick at OC and/or OT and you have to feel good about our line!

    I actually think this has been our best FA signing period since the year we got Bennett and Avril in 2013. Signs are pointing up this year! :2thumbs:
    kf3339
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  • kf3339 wrote:We're definitely better on our DL with today's moves with Dunlap and Reed. I always felt Reed was overpaid when we re-signed him last off-season. It was probably needed, but still needed at the time. But with the Hyder signing I think our line will be much better than the start of last season. Also Brooks came on towards the end of the season and should be even better this year. Barton is serviceable if Wright doesn't return. But our safeties will be much better with Blair returning and Neal getting experience last year. Probably our CB's will be a little weak to start, but hopefully we can work around with with a stronger pass rush.

    Our O-line is going to be better just by Jackson with his experience and Lewis with a year under his belt. Give us a quality draft pick at OC and/or OT and you have to feel good about our line!

    I actually think this has been our best FA signing period since the year we got Bennett and Avril in 2013. Signs are pointing up this year! :2thumbs:


    We played well to counter the Rams acquisition of Stafford, we have yet to see if Jimmy is the guy, seems when a team talks up a player as our guy as much as the 49ers have he isn't, we will see. Cards are the team that is making strides and will be very tough in my book, much tougher then many here credit. We know the Rams will be slinging it and the 49ers trying to not make mistakes and beat you up with slash running.
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  • seabowl wrote:From a player acquisition standpoint I'm sorry but outside of the Guard and maybe TE, not seeing how this team is any better than last year's if you include the subtractions that left.

    The only thing that we can hope for is a different game plan from Pete and the coordinators.

    I know the cap room was low and they didn't have a lot of options but those that are saying how great the offseason has been I just don't see it at least to this point. Mostly the same underperforming group.

    You're just spoiled. This is what happens when a team has consistent success.

    Temper your expectations and you may just find that you'll get more enjoyment from the Hawks seasons.
    onanygivensunday
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  • Most teams don't get better in FA - especially teams that are already good.

    Cheap players come to the end of contracts and cost more to be resigned, cap space becomes difficult to manage, often times great players leaves.

    We've seen that by cutting Jarran Reed, but also we've lost Griffin & Moore, who were starters and/or significant role players that are too expensive to keep.

    But we've added strength at positions of weakness in trading for Jackson and the signings of Everett, Hyder & Witherspoon overall I think should be better than the players replacing them.
    Darrell Taylor and Marquise Blair should hopefully be fit and healthy for the new season, I expect we'll do a deal to keep KJ in town, Jamal Adams has a full season/offseason with the team under his belt & Jordyn Brooks is no longer a rookie. Over the last 8 games of the season our defense went from one of the worst in the league to one in the best and I think we've done enough to keep that momentum going.

    On offense, the LG spot and TE were the 2 that needed improving given the 6 games Iupati missed last year and Olsen injury. I think the Jackson & Everett moves are significant upgrades there, and that leaves us with no real glaring holes in the roster.

    We could probably do with a new starting CB (though I'm still convinced Flowers is better than we think) and a new WR3, but for the first time in a while I think we can go into the draft with the mindset of picking the best player (or playmaker) available to compete with the starter at their position. And if Reed finds out the market isn't what he thought it was, who knows, maybe we can still find a way to keep him around.
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  • As you said yourself, upgrade at LG, upgrade at TE + upgrade along the D-Line = meaningfully better.
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  • I've read through the comments so far and IMO there isn't one that convinces me that we are better.

    Jackson on the OL is a very good upgrade. Everett is a good upgrade too but not tremendous when you look at him replacing both Hollister and Olsen. Hyder is a good player but losing Reed in the middle will hurt. Anyone thinking Witherspoon is an upgrade over Griffen is smoking something. Other then that everything else is pretty much the same as the end of last year's roster of who's left. Also those mentioning the emergence of players like Taylor, Collier, etc. I wouldn't get my hopes up. I did that with players like Rasheem Greene and he has turned out to be below average.

    Look not trying to burst anyone's bubble but I'm just not putting on the rose colored glasses because this group has not improved on paper at least to this point as a whole IMO.
    seabowl
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  • We are ahead of where we were last year, we have a healthy RB stable and depth there, we have a revamped defense to start the season not like mid season where we finally got everyone together.

    Thats all improvements 8 games ahead of schedule, now the one thing that will need time is whatever tweeks happen on offense, I am not convinced we go whole new thing.

    Secondly not knowing what OTA'S, Mini camps and how much contact etc we can have before training camp and pre season is still going to set us back if we go full blown offense change.

    Timing on the Rams offense was crucial from what I saw.
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  • chris98251 wrote:We are ahead of where we were last year, we have a healthy RB stable and depth there, we have a revamped defense to start the season not like mid season where we finally got everyone together.

    Thats all improvements 8 games ahead of schedule, now the one thing that will need time is whatever tweeks happen on offense, I am not convinced we go whole new thing.

    Secondly not knowing what OTA'S, Mini camps and how much contact etc we can have before training camp and pre season is still going to set us back if we go full blown offense change.

    Timing on the Rams offense was crucial from what I saw.


    "Healthy rb stable" is only because they haven't played a game in over 2 months. What depth that is different then last year?

    Revamped D that is different? Hyder is ok-good, Dunlap is good too, losing Reed is not good and Witherspoon is a big droppoff from Griffen. all the rest is the same. I'm very concerned about the interior DL as Mine is serviceable but not much else there.

    Again IMO it's all up to the coaching staff to change their ways if we are to see improvement.
    seabowl
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  • seabowl wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:We are ahead of where we were last year, we have a healthy RB stable and depth there, we have a revamped defense to start the season not like mid season where we finally got everyone together.

    Thats all improvements 8 games ahead of schedule, now the one thing that will need time is whatever tweeks happen on offense, I am not convinced we go whole new thing.

    Secondly not knowing what OTA'S, Mini camps and how much contact etc we can have before training camp and pre season is still going to set us back if we go full blown offense change.

    Timing on the Rams offense was crucial from what I saw.


    "Healthy rb stable" is only because they haven't played a game in over 2 months. What depth that is different then last year?

    Revamped D that is different? Hyder is ok-good, Dunlap is good too, losing Reed is not good and Witherspoon is a big droppoff from Griffen. all the rest is the same. I'm very concerned about the interior DL as Mine is serviceable but not much else there.

    Again IMO it's all up to the coaching staff to change their ways if we are to see improvement.


    Obviously you were not paying attention, Penny was not there, we didn't have Collins at the beginning, we got Adams later, Dunlap later still, Witherspoon can be better then Griffin based on what I read in coverage, the bad is his tackling and run support. Tackling is about attitude and want. We will have to see if the staff can instill the right mentality with him.

    Other then Reed we have added more impact pieces there then lost, and Reed could end up back after testing the real world. They good thing is inside guy are cheaper then Edge guys typically so picking one or two up as depth and rotation should not break the bank.
    chris98251
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    seabowl wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:We are ahead of where we were last year, we have a healthy RB stable and depth there, we have a revamped defense to start the season not like mid season where we finally got everyone together.

    Thats all improvements 8 games ahead of schedule, now the one thing that will need time is whatever tweeks happen on offense, I am not convinced we go whole new thing.

    Secondly not knowing what OTA'S, Mini camps and how much contact etc we can have before training camp and pre season is still going to set us back if we go full blown offense change.

    Timing on the Rams offense was crucial from what I saw.


    "Healthy rb stable" is only because they haven't played a game in over 2 months. What depth that is different then last year?

    Revamped D that is different? Hyder is ok-good, Dunlap is good too, losing Reed is not good and Witherspoon is a big droppoff from Griffen. all the rest is the same. I'm very concerned about the interior DL as Mine is serviceable but not much else there.

    Again IMO it's all up to the coaching staff to change their ways if we are to see improvement.


    Obviously you were not paying attention, Penny was not there, we didn't have Collins at the beginning, we got Adams later, Dunlap later still, Witherspoon can be better then Griffin based on what I read in coverage, the bad is his tackling and run support. Tackling is about attitude and want. We will have to see if the staff can instill the right mentality with him.

    Other then Reed we have added more impact pieces there then lost, and Reed could end up back after testing the real world. They good thing is inside guy are cheaper then Edge guys typically so picking one or two up as depth and rotation should not break the bank.


    Na I was paying attention as I've seen virtually every game since 1990. By the way maybe you weren't paying attention because the team started off at 6-1 which is almost half a season.

    With that said yes you can say Penny will be there this year when he was not there last year but not holding my breath on him being great. Collins is not an upgrade over Hyde. At best I'd call that even and I'm being generous. Witherspoon is NOT better then Griffen. Just look at the contracts for the 2. Please do not say you'd rather have Witherspoon. I too have read up on him and frankly have not seen many good things. Yes Adams came after the start of the season but the team with him still underperformed most of the year. This is not on Adams but they ended up getting bounced early by a team with a bad QB situation.

    Look I want the team to be better but on paper they just are not given the players they lost vs what they gained compared to the roster at the end of the season . You have your opinion and that is fine but as I have said, the bettering of this team begins and ends with the coaching staff.

    The roster based on who they brought is is not a difference maker.
    seabowl
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  • If there has been any improvements, they have been negligible. Certainly nothing thats going to propel the team any further. Usual Seahawks season coming up. Make playoffs (maybe) and fizzle quickly in the playoffs. Still giving the off season a C so far.
    pittpnthrs
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  • Only slightly better.

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk
    toffee
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  • Anything that reduces pressure on your QB improves the offense. Adding Jackson to our line is a move that, alone, makes our offense better than it was.
    That our defense is better than it was is debatable. So much depends on continuity and communication. We will need to have an exceptionally good pre-season training period to form our new staff and roster into a cohesive unit, but the same is true of most teams we have to compete with.
    The changes we have made, together with the retentions we have managed, will make for a very interesting season this year. There is always hope involved in offseason maneuvers, but it's what happens on the field that determines whether or not we will maintain, or build on, our level of success.
    It's Kool-Aid time!
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  • Our lines are better than last year to this point. That in itself makes this off-season a win for me.

    Reed was good, but could also disappear in games. For his salary cost that wasn't acceptable. I think Mone will get even better and play more of a part in run defense. Who knows what JS and PC have coming in the next few weeks. Perhaps Atkins wants to play on a potential contender and Dunlap is recruiting him. He is 33 and never even had a chance to play for a SB. Money may not be his issue at that age. One can hope!

    Jackson will transform our O-line into a solid unit. LG was our biggest weakness last year. We need two young rookies at OC and OT in the draft. The OT to learn under Brown would be ideal. But a 2nd round OC pick could supplant Pocic by mid season at the latest. Things could look really good by the end of next season. At least I hope so!
    kf3339
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  • kf3339 wrote:Our lines are better than last year to this point. That in itself makes this off-season a win for me!


    This.

    In the modern NFL it's all about the lines.......and IMO at least on paper our lines are better.

    Still worried about our cornerback and LB situation. So that's the next veteran signing I'd like to see, a CB.
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  • Moving forward I believe Carroll is placing an emphasis at 5 tech.

    If you can’t collapse the pocket consistently from the inside out, he’s going to build with a collection of outside rushers and force the QB step in to throw with 1 and 3 techs occupying space with containment, closing running lanes and not necessarily rushing the QB.

    I feel this is his strategy and he’s building the team with the salary cap in mind to have more “outside” rushers than inside guys. The quality inside guys are usually more difficult to find so he’s not going to attempt to build that way.

    Has Seattle gotten better from this particular way of building a pass rush? Yes.

    We’ve seen the impact Dunlap has made and it’s adding to what Dunlap can do with Hyder and keeping depth with Mayowa and hopefully, Robinson can develop more, and Taylor can make an impact similar to a young Bruce Irvin.

    That’s enough of an improvement that letting Jarran Reed go with the intention of stacking more outside help, totally worth it.

    We’ll have to wait and see.

    Seattle is nowhere near finished with this subtractions and acquisitions.
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  • We're somewhere between slightly better and slightly worse, depends on how big of a difference Jackson makes, how much losing Reed hurts, and what impact Hyder has. There's also more to come, so we'll see.

    Can't really expect a huge leap forward on talent when we have little cap space and already spent most of our draft capital.
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  • Hopefully we are better because the Niners just traded for the third pick in the draft.
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  • seabowl wrote:I've read through the comments so far and IMO there isn't one that convinces me that we are better.

    Jackson on the OL is a very good upgrade. Everett is a good upgrade too but not tremendous when you look at him replacing both Hollister and Olsen. Hyder is a good player but losing Reed in the middle will hurt. Anyone thinking Witherspoon is an upgrade over Griffen is smoking something. Other then that everything else is pretty much the same as the end of last year's roster of who's left. Also those mentioning the emergence of players like Taylor, Collier, etc. I wouldn't get my hopes up. I did that with players like Rasheem Greene and he has turned out to be below average.

    Look not trying to burst anyone's bubble but I'm just not putting on the rose colored glasses because this group has not improved on paper at least to this point as a whole IMO.


    I dont think you can look at it simply through the lens of individual player acquisition. The way the FO sees it, its not just the new faces.

    On the DL, its also the introduction of Darrel Taylor to a line that was already formidable toward the end of last year, albeit not as stout against the run as i would have liked - and the ripple effect that has in terms of current players switching roles (ie Collier moving inside). My wager is that they think Hyder will be able to do some of the same, and with Dunlap and Taylor on the edges, theres not a whole lot NOT to like about it.

    In the secondary, its about the return of Marquis Blair, who by all accounts was a star waiting to erupt in a psuedo Bam Bam - light kind of way. The guy is a difference maker. And with him and Amadi on the field, i have to think they feel pretty good about the flexibility they have in coverage packages. Is Witherspoon the answer at CB, maybe not, but its not like Byron Maxwell was a superstar cover guy either. he was just a solid, solid player who had other measurables that fit the scheme and what the Hawks like to do. And you cant discount attitude and aggression either. thats one ingredient that the LOB had, regardless of talent... That 'edge'. Browner had it, Maxwell had it... the entire secondary played with it in the Hawks heyday. Thats the single biggest plus i see in losing Griffin. the guy was talented but didnt have the 'chip' that Hawk defenses thrive off of. No fire.

    Also, Flowers showed considerable improvement as the season progressed. And Dunbar will have had a good 9 months to get right by the start of the season.

    Not going to comment on the LB's as the KJ situation has yet to settle.

    But overall on D... i think we made smart, strategic moves that will make our style of play much more effective. We've put talent AND aggression where we need it. We have guys coming off of injury that will be looking to prove themselves and new faces that come to us with some knowledge of what we run on D already.

    But we need a big body to plug the middle.

    On O, whats not to like? The single biggest factor here that makes us better is Waldron. Assuming he does what we think he's capable of, the O will be better with taht single move alone. We gave him a key piece at TE that i think will factor significantly in the playcalling. Plus Diss isback and will be a year removed from his major surgery, so i'd expect him to be better. And we get to see Parkinson, who by all accounts was an excellent pick

    Having Carson at RB isnt just about his talent. Its about a style of play that energize the offense (along with DK) in the same way that Blair, Adams, Dunlap, and Reed do on defense.

    The seahawks build as much around mental make up and 'fire' as any team ive ever seen. When we were best, we had ADB who wouldnt back down from anyone and an entire receiving core that played with a chip. There was Marshawn who challenged opposing team's manhood on every carry ('nuff said). Enough maulers on the O-line to shift the balance of power late in games, and then just enough talent throughout to win.

    The LOB (and entire D for that matter) was just a generational thing, but in terms of ingredients today? Adams, Blair, Reed, Diggs... thats a solid, solid mix of talent and fire. Dunbar can bring it as well... and flowers showed Spark. Witherspoon, if you read up on why he soured in SF, seems to have all the talent and ego to fit our system, biut floundered in SF due to confidence issues as a resulty of injury and a few bad games. Is that a positive sign for a corner? no. but i cant imagine a better place for a talented DB to land who might be lacking in that aspect than in the DB room with Adams, Diggs, Reed and the rest.

    And the O-liine?

    Brown
    Jackson
    Pocic
    Lewis
    Shell

    Could the center be improved? sure. but whats not to like? Not only do we shore up the LG spot, but the group has a year together now. Consistency cannot be overestimated. My biggest concern is having Brown go down. if that happens, all bets are off.

    So all in all, we are adding considerable talent in just getting guys back that we lost. Through FA'cy We are adding guys that might not have consistently lit the world on fire where they were, but by the 'Hawks measuring stick, will likely play above what they would on other rosters because of the unique traits they have and how they 'fit' into out system.

    And on offense, we will have a scheme that other teams in the division wont know how to prepare for.

    Key to all of this (i think) will be our ability to effectively run the ball and control the clock. That doesnt mean 3 runs and a cloud of dust every possession, but with the addition of Waldron, hopefully a rushing attack that can cut you like a scalpel and crush you like a sledgehammer. Then, a passing game that will have defenses constantly guessing and an attitude of its own with the fire that DK brings. i think the moves we've made will undoubtedly help us do that.

    On D - we just have to be able to stop the run up the middle and also get pressure there. I think we are solid edge wise and above average on the back end. If the Offense can keep the ball for better than 30 minutes a game, I think we will be markedly better than we were last year... without Russ having to 'cook'.

    In my opinion, this offseason has been nothing short of brilliant.
    keasley45
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  • Rat wrote:Hopefully we are better because the Niners just traded for the third pick in the draft.

    Yes...but did you see what they gave up for a unproven player? Talk about going all in.
    TAB420
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  • TAB420 wrote:
    Rat wrote:Hopefully we are better because the Niners just traded for the third pick in the draft.

    Yes...but did you see what they gave up for a unproven player? Talk about going all in.


    Easily worth it if it nets them a high-end QB prospect. They must really like Fields and/or Wilson. Unless they have another insane year with injuries, those next few first rounders probably aren't going to be high ones.
    Rat
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  • Rat wrote:
    TAB420 wrote:
    Rat wrote:Hopefully we are better because the Niners just traded for the third pick in the draft.

    Yes...but did you see what they gave up for a unproven player? Talk about going all in.


    Easily worth it if it nets them a high-end QB prospect. They must really like Fields and/or Wilson. Unless they have another insane year with injuries, those next few first rounders probably aren't going to be high ones.

    Exactly...IF! That's a lot to bet the farm on. Has there been a draft pick that has cost a team three 1st rounders before? This is the most given up for an unproven player then I can remember.
    Last edited by TAB420 on Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    TAB420
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  • IF they can get a good center in the draft, the o-line will have been upgraded.

    And the D-line is starting to look good.

    Prioritizing the trenches is always a smart move.
    hoxrox
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  • TAB420 wrote:
    Rat wrote:
    TAB420 wrote:
    Rat wrote:Hopefully we are better because the Niners just traded for the third pick in the draft.

    Yes...but did you see what they gave up for a unproven player? Talk about going all in.


    Easily worth it if it nets them a high-end QB prospect. They must really like Fields and/or Wilson. Unless they have another insane year with injuries, those next few first rounders probably aren't going to be high ones.

    Exactly...IF! That's a lot to bet the farm on. Has there been a draft pick that has cost a team three 1st rounders before? This is the most given up for an unproven player then I can remember.


    They could get Sam Bradford or a Herbert, odds are more Bradford types then Herbert out there, and Herbert is a one year wonder right now, he is getting a new system and coach etc, can he maintain what he started.
    chris98251
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  • TAB420 wrote:
    Rat wrote:
    TAB420 wrote:
    Rat wrote:Hopefully we are better because the Niners just traded for the third pick in the draft.

    Yes...but did you see what they gave up for a unproven player? Talk about going all in.


    Easily worth it if it nets them a high-end QB prospect. They must really like Fields and/or Wilson. Unless they have another insane year with injuries, those next few first rounders probably aren't going to be high ones.

    Exactly...IF! That's a lot to bet the farm on. Has there been a draft pick that has cost a team three 1st rounders before? This is the most given up for an unproven player then I can remember.


    The Saints traded their ENTIRE draft for the #5 pick, to get Ricky Williams:

    The Saints traded their first round, third round, fourth round, fifth round, sixth round, and seventh-round picks in the 1999 NFL Draft, and their first-round and third-round picks from the 2000 NFL Draft to the Washington Redskins for the fifth overall pick of the 1999 NFL Draft.

    I know it's not three first rounders, but it's still a ton of draft capitol for the #5 pick in that draft.
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  • Hyder when he’s on he’s hot & recovers fumbles.
    FresnoHawk68
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  • are we better?

    QB :
    If Wilson stays, then same otherwise worse.
    RBs:
    Worse without Carlos.
    WR:
    Better if DK improves, otherwise without David? Worse
    TE:
    Better
    OL:
    Better but Brown might regress due to age?

    DL:
    Better,
    LB;
    May be same?
    DB:
    Hard to say, at best same.

    So are we better overall? At best marginally.

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk
    toffee
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  • toffee wrote:are we better?

    QB :
    If Wilson stays, then same otherwise worse.
    RBs:
    Worse without Carlos.
    WR:
    Better if DK improves, otherwise without David? Worse
    TE:
    Better
    OL:
    Better but Brown might regress due to age?

    DL:
    Better,
    LB;
    May be same?
    DB:
    Hard to say, at best same.

    So are we better overall? At best marginally.

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


    Your dismissing all the young players and who knows what’s coming next. Things could get better or worse it’s too early to tell. Hyder has been streaky so we won’t know if he’s over come it and this is the new normal.

    The draft has really good prospects in round 2 and good back ups through mid round 3. The fact that your asking the question is telling, usually it’s obvious they’re shooting for the Super Bowl.
    FresnoHawk68
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  • The team was 12-4 last year....not sure there are huge, massive upgrades roster-wide to be had. The very premise of this thread is a bit of a strawman and set up to fail.

    Although there are (always) areas to point to for improvement, what this team needs is to be firing on all cylinders come playoff time rather than any kind of huge talent upgrade that just isnt going to happen.

    Tampa slogged through parts of their season too (hence the 4th seed)....the difference? They were on a roll by the time the playoffs started.
    Hawkpower
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  • Hawkpower wrote:The team was 12-4 last year....not sure there are huge, massive upgrades roster-wide to be had. The very premise of this thread is a bit of a strawman and set up to fail.

    Although there are (always) areas to point to for improvement, what this team needs is to be firing on all cylinders come playoff time rather than any kind of huge talent upgrade that just isnt going to happen.

    Tampa slogged through parts of their season too (hence the 4th seed)....the difference? They were on a roll by the time the playoffs started.


    As you said' it's not about 12-4 in the regular season but rather do they have the p!ayers to make a run vs what they had last year.

    Tampa won the bowl because they had the best QB of all-time and had a lot of very good players especially on their lines. Our DL IMO still lacks a lot and our OL is average at best. Until these are vastly improved expect the same.

    As I said originally the only way with this roster this team goes deep, is a major change in coaching philosophy which we have yet to see.
    seabowl
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  • seabowl wrote:
    Hawkpower wrote:The team was 12-4 last year....not sure there are huge, massive upgrades roster-wide to be had. The very premise of this thread is a bit of a strawman and set up to fail.

    Although there are (always) areas to point to for improvement, what this team needs is to be firing on all cylinders come playoff time rather than any kind of huge talent upgrade that just isnt going to happen.

    Tampa slogged through parts of their season too (hence the 4th seed)....the difference? They were on a roll by the time the playoffs started.


    As you said' it's not about 12-4 in the regular season but rather do they have the p!ayers to make a run vs what they had last year.

    Tampa won the bowl because they had the best QB of all-time and had a lot of very good players especially on their lines. Our DL IMO still lacks a lot and our OL is average at best. Until these are vastly improved expect the same.

    As I said originally the only way with this roster this team goes deep, is a major change in coaching philosophy which we have yet to see.



    12-4 in the regular season demonstrates this is already one of the top rosters in the NFC. They don’t need massive upgrades, just key ones.

    Tampa does not make the super bowl if the playoffs had started in November. They at that time were playing similarly to how the hawks ended up playing come playoff time.

    You’re a smart fan so you know playoff success is all about playing your best football in January. We’ve seen enough 9-7 type teams do this over the years to know that’s true.

    The Seahawks didn’t lose in the first round because their roster wasn’t good enough.
    Hawkpower
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  • keasley45 wrote:
    seabowl wrote:I've read through the comments so far and IMO there isn't one that convinces me that we are better.

    Jackson on the OL is a very good upgrade. Everett is a good upgrade too but not tremendous when you look at him replacing both Hollister and Olsen. Hyder is a good player but losing Reed in the middle will hurt. Anyone thinking Witherspoon is an upgrade over Griffen is smoking something. Other then that everything else is pretty much the same as the end of last year's roster of who's left. Also those mentioning the emergence of players like Taylor, Collier, etc. I wouldn't get my hopes up. I did that with players like Rasheem Greene and he has turned out to be below average.

    Look not trying to burst anyone's bubble but I'm just not putting on the rose colored glasses because this group has not improved on paper at least to this point as a whole IMO.


    I dont think you can look at it simply through the lens of individual player acquisition. The way the FO sees it, its not just the new faces.

    On the DL, its also the introduction of Darrel Taylor to a line that was already formidable toward the end of last year, albeit not as stout against the run as i would have liked - and the ripple effect that has in terms of current players switching roles (ie Collier moving inside). My wager is that they think Hyder will be able to do some of the same, and with Dunlap and Taylor on the edges, theres not a whole lot NOT to like about it.

    In the secondary, its about the return of Marquis Blair, who by all accounts was a star waiting to erupt in a psuedo Bam Bam - light kind of way. The guy is a difference maker. And with him and Amadi on the field, i have to think they feel pretty good about the flexibility they have in coverage packages. Is Witherspoon the answer at CB, maybe not, but its not like Byron Maxwell was a superstar cover guy either. he was just a solid, solid player who had other measurables that fit the scheme and what the Hawks like to do. And you cant discount attitude and aggression either. thats one ingredient that the LOB had, regardless of talent... That 'edge'. Browner had it, Maxwell had it... the entire secondary played with it in the Hawks heyday. Thats the single biggest plus i see in losing Griffin. the guy was talented but didnt have the 'chip' that Hawk defenses thrive off of. No fire.

    Also, Flowers showed considerable improvement as the season progressed. And Dunbar will have had a good 9 months to get right by the start of the season.

    Not going to comment on the LB's as the KJ situation has yet to settle.

    But overall on D... i think we made smart, strategic moves that will make our style of play much more effective. We've put talent AND aggression where we need it. We have guys coming off of injury that will be looking to prove themselves and new faces that come to us with some knowledge of what we run on D already.

    But we need a big body to plug the middle.

    On O, whats not to like? The single biggest factor here that makes us better is Waldron. Assuming he does what we think he's capable of, the O will be better with taht single move alone. We gave him a key piece at TE that i think will factor significantly in the playcalling. Plus Diss isback and will be a year removed from his major surgery, so i'd expect him to be better. And we get to see Parkinson, who by all accounts was an excellent pick

    Having Carson at RB isnt just about his talent. Its about a style of play that energize the offense (along with DK) in the same way that Blair, Adams, Dunlap, and Reed do on defense.

    The seahawks build as much around mental make up and 'fire' as any team ive ever seen. When we were best, we had ADB who wouldnt back down from anyone and an entire receiving core that played with a chip. There was Marshawn who challenged opposing team's manhood on every carry ('nuff said). Enough maulers on the O-line to shift the balance of power late in games, and then just enough talent throughout to win.

    The LOB (and entire D for that matter) was just a generational thing, but in terms of ingredients today? Adams, Blair, Reed, Diggs... thats a solid, solid mix of talent and fire. Dunbar can bring it as well... and flowers showed Spark. Witherspoon, if you read up on why he soured in SF, seems to have all the talent and ego to fit our system, biut floundered in SF due to confidence issues as a resulty of injury and a few bad games. Is that a positive sign for a corner? no. but i cant imagine a better place for a talented DB to land who might be lacking in that aspect than in the DB room with Adams, Diggs, Reed and the rest.

    And the O-liine?

    Brown
    Jackson
    Pocic
    Lewis
    Shell

    Could the center be improved? sure. but whats not to like? Not only do we shore up the LG spot, but the group has a year together now. Consistency cannot be overestimated. My biggest concern is having Brown go down. if that happens, all bets are off.

    So all in all, we are adding considerable talent in just getting guys back that we lost. Through FA'cy We are adding guys that might not have consistently lit the world on fire where they were, but by the 'Hawks measuring stick, will likely play above what they would on other rosters because of the unique traits they have and how they 'fit' into out system.

    And on offense, we will have a scheme that other teams in the division wont know how to prepare for.

    Key to all of this (i think) will be our ability to effectively run the ball and control the clock. That doesnt mean 3 runs and a cloud of dust every possession, but with the addition of Waldron, hopefully a rushing attack that can cut you like a scalpel and crush you like a sledgehammer. Then, a passing game that will have defenses constantly guessing and an attitude of its own with the fire that DK brings. i think the moves we've made will undoubtedly help us do that.

    On D - we just have to be able to stop the run up the middle and also get pressure there. I think we are solid edge wise and above average on the back end. If the Offense can keep the ball for better than 30 minutes a game, I think we will be markedly better than we were last year... without Russ having to 'cook'.

    In my opinion, this offseason has been nothing short of brilliant.


    This is a very well done write up of our off-season to date. I couldn't agree more with your assessments on both the O and D additions and potential scheme fits.

    In addition, Al Woods is your plug in the middle for our D-Line. Not a youngster, but now well rested and more than likely injury free. I bet he has that same fire and edge you wrote about and will get the job done. He did it for us in 2019 more than once! :2thumbs:
    kf3339
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  • +1 And Amadi should play some FS he’s a really smart & dedicated player that has what it takes to be FS.
    FresnoHawk68
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  • FresnoHawk68 wrote:+1 And Amadi should play some FS he’s a really smart & dedicated player that has what it takes to be FS.


    Shhhh.

    Intelligence has showed itself. Don't ruin the thread
    acer1240
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  • Hawkpower wrote:The Seahawks didn’t lose in the first round because their roster wasn’t good enough.


    They lost because the roster cant overcome the poor coaching. While the roster changes, the coach is still a constant. Expect more of the same.
    pittpnthrs
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Hawkpower wrote:The Seahawks didn’t lose in the first round because their roster wasn’t good enough.


    They lost because the roster cant overcome the poor coaching. While the roster changes, the coach is still a constant. Expect more of the same.


    This is very true, as our offense looked anemic that whole game. The hope is our new OC and run co-ordinator will bring some new blood and ideas in that will keep defenses guessing. That is if PC will let them do their job. Time will tell.
    kf3339
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Hawkpower wrote:The Seahawks didn’t lose in the first round because their roster wasn’t good enough.


    They lost because the roster cant overcome the poor coaching. While the roster changes, the coach is still a constant. Expect more of the same.



    If that’s true, then this thread is pointless.

    Of course it’s not true because Pete has had plenty of regular season and postseason success, but that’s the simpleton argument of the off-season currently so feel free to carry on
    Hawkpower
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  • Hawkpower wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Hawkpower wrote:The Seahawks didn’t lose in the first round because their roster wasn’t good enough.


    They lost because the roster cant overcome the poor coaching. While the roster changes, the coach is still a constant. Expect more of the same.



    If that’s true, then this thread is pointless.

    Of course it’s not true because Pete has had plenty of regular season and postseason success, but that’s the simpleton argument of the off-season currently so feel free to carry on


    Pete gets outcoached a lot. How can you not see that? It should be easier to realize currently as Pete admittedly doesnt understand why or how it happens now. That doesnt spew confidence going forward. You're welcome to go on turning a blind eye to it, but its the biggest problem this franchise has right now and its holding them back.
    pittpnthrs
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  • Basketball and Football, both sports have one thing that's common in Championship runs.

    First off Health, Football a bit more flexible but still lose a key piece it's hard to replace mid season and can spiral you out of contention, lose depth in football and the same thing happens over time.

    Second peaking, you want to build success and then dominate by the end of the season, if things come to easy early teams seem to lose the edge and have problems getting it back, why is a 1000 reasons. We have had our best runs when we have had these two things by the playoffs. Most other teams do also, Bucs did last year.
    chris98251
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Hawkpower wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Hawkpower wrote:The Seahawks didn’t lose in the first round because their roster wasn’t good enough.


    They lost because the roster cant overcome the poor coaching. While the roster changes, the coach is still a constant. Expect more of the same.



    If that’s true, then this thread is pointless.

    Of course it’s not true because Pete has had plenty of regular season and postseason success, but that’s the simpleton argument of the off-season currently so feel free to carry on


    Pete gets outcoached a lot. How can you not see that? It should be easier to realize currently as Pete admittedly doesnt understand why or how it happens now. That doesnt spew confidence going forward. You're welcome to go on turning a blind eye to it, but its the biggest problem this franchise has right now and its holding them back.



    Pete's far from perfect. Quite true. He has been outcoached at times. All coaches are.

    I do find it amusing though that when we win in the playoffs its because of everything but Pete, but when we lose its only Pete's fault....

    Wilson has had some terrible first round games lately and yet Pete continues to get all the wrath

    This offseason, the "Pete can't win in the playoffs" mantra has taken on a life of its own in here. The truth is, as always, a combination of many things, Pete included.
    Hawkpower
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  • chris98251 wrote:Basketball and Football, both sports have one thing that's common in Championship runs.

    First off Health, Football a bit more flexible but still lose a key piece it's hard to replace mid season and can spiral you out of contention, lose depth in football and the same thing happens over time.

    Second peaking, you want to build success and then dominate by the end of the season, if things come to easy early teams seem to lose the edge and have problems getting it back, why is a 1000 reasons. We have had our best runs when we have had these two things by the playoffs. Most other teams do also, Bucs did last year.



    Absolutely.

    Peaking at the right time is the key to championship runs in almost every sport.

    Now figuring out how to do it, thats another story :)
    Hawkpower
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  • It is getting to the point where engaging with some posters simply makes no sense. In plenty of threads the overriding point is that Carroll can't draft and our roster isn't good enough, but in other threads the same poster will claim that the roster can't make up for the coaching as though the roster that he built isn't the same that they were lamenting in other threads.
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