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Making cents of the Jamal Adams trade

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Making cents of the Jamal Adams trade
Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:59 pm
  • Long read, but a very good article breaking everything down.



    $83,018
    No, I didn’t forget any zeroes or any commas.

    Eighty-three thousand eighteen dollars and zero cents.

    That is the exact dollar difference - from a cash flow perspective - for the 2020 and 2021 seasons - between Seattle trading for Jamal Adams last offseason or not trading for Jamal Adams last offseason.

    Eighty-three thousand . . . and change.

    Intrigued?

    First, let’s revisit “The Trade”
    Just to refresh everyone’s memory - and to define which parts of the trade are “relevant” for this article . . .

    New York gets (got):

    Seattle’s 2021 first-round draft pick
    Seattle’s 2021 third-round pick
    Seattle’s 2022 first-round pick
    Safety Bradley McDougald

    Seattle gets (got):

    Safety Jamal Adams
    New York’s 2022 fourth-round draft pick
    The pieces of that trade that are relevant for this article:

    Jamal Adams
    Bradley McDougald
    The 2021 first-round draft pick (#23 overall)
    The 2022 third-round draft pick (#86 overall)

    The pieces of the trade that are NOT relevant for this article:

    The 2022 first-round draft pick that Seattle sent to the Jets
    The 2022 fourth-round draft pick that the Jets sent to Seattle
    NOTE: Both of these draft picks clearly are relevant and both clearly impact how people feel about the trade (the 1st round pick more than the 4th round pick, obviously). But both are also huge UNKNOWNS right now so they’re excluded from the analysis.

    https://www.fieldgulls.com/2021/3/29/22 ... raft-picks
    KitsapGuy
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  • I didn't read the article but my overall feeling is that I would rather have Bradley McDougald and the draft picks.

    I like Jamal Adams but I just don't feel he was the dominant force I was expecting. 8.5 sacks is pretty great but that is a lot of blitzing. How many big plays because we got burned when Adams was blitzing?

    The dudes good, I just don't think he is a 2 first round draft pick upgrade over McDougald.
    irfuben32
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  • I don't think I've ever been less impressed by a completely true but pointless argument.

    To save people the click, according to the author not having our first round pick this year saves the team $7.7m in cash flow (not cap) which offsets most of Adams's salary this year. Combined with the savings of not having our third round pick, it makes the Adams trade close to neutral from a pure cash flow perspective.

    Why on earth would that matter? Cash flow impacts have to be at the very bottom of the list of considerations for a wealthy ownership group such as ours. In fact, they are likely given no weight whatsoever.
    AgentDib
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  • What could have been if Blair didn’t get injured...

    The window to win is now.
    nwHawk
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  • nwHawk wrote:What could have been if Blair didn’t get injured...

    The window to win is now.

    When does the window become detrimental and you start forfeiting tomorrow for a shot at today? Looking at this draft, with only three picks and a lot of players gonna be gone at the end of this next season doesn't bode much confidence in selling out the future for an extra win or two (and no significant playoff progression) during the now.
    Seahawk_Dan
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  • AgentDib wrote:I don't think I've ever been less impressed by a completely true but pointless argument.

    To save people the click, according to the author not having our first round pick this year saves the team $7.7m in cash flow (not cap) which offsets most of Adams's salary this year. Combined with the savings of not having our third round pick, it makes the Adams trade close to neutral from a pure cash flow perspective.

    Why on earth would that matter? Cash flow impacts have to be at the very bottom of the list of considerations for a wealthy ownership group such as ours. In fact, they are likely given no weight whatsoever.



    There's this thing in the NFL, that keeps teams even...it's called the "Salary Cap." Doesn't matter how rich your owner is, they can only spend ~$184 million this year.

    Back to the article, shouldn't he have written "the 2021 3rd Round Pick.?" Or, how could he possibly know what number our 2022 3rd pick is at> What if we win the SuperB Owl? Wouldn't that be #96?

    Seattle gets (got):

    Safety Jamal Adams
    New York’s 2022 fourth-round draft pick
    The pieces of that trade that are relevant for this article:

    Jamal Adams
    Bradley McDougald
    The 2021 first-round draft pick (#23 overall)
    The 2022 third-round draft pick (#86 overall)
    ivotuk
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  • Except the entire point is that he's not talking about the salary cap. He is only talking about cash flow, ie. out of pocket spending from teams in the current year. That only matters in rare exceptions like the Raiders/Bengals, and certainly not for the Seahawks.

    Because the signing bonus is prorated over 4 seasons, the 2021 cap hit is lower, but the actual CASH FLOW for pick #23 is $7,726,308 in 2021.


    This is just as useful to the Seahawks as pointing out that Adams has a shorter name which saves time on data entry.
    AgentDib
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  • irfuben32 wrote:I didn't read the article but my overall feeling is that I would rather have Bradley McDougald and the draft picks.

    I like Jamal Adams but I just don't feel he was the dominant force I was expecting. 8.5 sacks is pretty great but that is a lot of blitzing. How many big plays because we got burned when Adams was blitzing?

    The dudes good, I just don't think he is a 2 first round draft pick upgrade over McDougald.

    ^
    My thoughts too .
    xray
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  • All Adams did was make plays. Yeah, what a horrible guy to have on the team :?
    SoulfishHawk
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:All Adams did was make plays. Yeah, what a horrible guy to have on the team :?

    I like Adams as a player, but JS/PC got absolutely fleeced in that trade.
    iigakusei
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  • Matter of opinion. Still plenty to play out.
    SoulfishHawk
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  • The homers, like myself, think it may have been a somewhat expensive trade to acquire Adams, but the team got a legitimate All Pro player as a result. The negative folks think JS/PC got fleeced by the Jets. On that difference there is little middle ground. However, if Adams continues his high level of play the team made a good choice as the got a difference maker at a position of need even if it was expensive.

    The Jets of course will draft another 1st round QB with their 2nd pick in the first round, and that QB will be the 2nd early first round pick for them in 3 drafts spent on a QB and then they'll pick some guy with the Hawks pick at 23. Will either be assured to be a player that will be an All Pro player for each one of his seasons in the NFL? I somehow doubt it.

    Who won then?

    This article was interesting fun with figures but doesn't really address some of the concerns about a potential new and expensive contract, or the cap consequences from the trade.
    jammerhawk
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  • So if we were to keep those draft picks then we would have to cut players to make room for them on the roster. So add the total salaries of the players needed to be cut and ADD that to your 83k total.
    gobosgumbo518
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  • iigakusei wrote:I like Adams as a player, but JS/PC got absolutely fleeced in that trade.


    Agreed. I didn't read the article, but in the end, the only thing that matters is is Adams worth the massive investment. I'm not sure he is. Actually, to me, he absolutely is not.

    The Hawks gave up a 2021 1st and 3rd (already low on draft picks), a 2022 1st, and a very serviceable starting safety. Plus, they traded for Diggs and drafted Blair last year. PLUS, they need to sign him to an extremely large extension. And if they don't? Well....

    All that for a box safety and a 4th rounder. I'm sorry, but that is asinine. Sure Adams is an "all-pro", the best part of his game is his run support and blitzing abilities. I've said it before, but if that's how they want to use him, they might as well move him to OLB. What's the point in having him as a piece of a VERY weak secondary? He's not great in coverage.

    Only the hardcore Pete and John truthers will say it's a great trade. It absolutely was not a great trade for Seattle. If New York plays their cards right and nail the picks from Seattle, they win that trade every single time. And before anyone disputes that fact, tell me again how good of a trade it was when you know damn well that Seattle will most likely need to dish out the largest safety contract in history to keep him. That hurts. Especially when he isn't even worth that.
    Thepeelsessions
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  • Thepeelsessions wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:I like Adams as a player, but JS/PC got absolutely fleeced in that trade.


    Agreed. I didn't read the article, but in the end, the only thing that matters is is Adams worth the massive investment. I'm not sure he is. Actually, to me, he absolutely is not.

    The Hawks gave up a 2021 1st and 3rd (already low on draft picks), a 2022 1st, and a very serviceable starting safety. Plus, they traded for Diggs and drafted Blair last year. PLUS, they need to sign him to an extremely large extension. And if they don't? Well....

    All that for a box safety and a 4th rounder. I'm sorry, but that is asinine. Sure Adams is an "all-pro", the best part of his game is his run support and blitzing abilities. I've said it before, but if that's how they want to use him, they might as well move him to OLB. What's the point in having him as a piece of a VERY weak secondary? He's not great in coverage.

    Only the hardcore Pete and John truthers will say it's a great trade. It absolutely was not a great trade for Seattle. If New York plays their cards right and nail the picks from Seattle, they win that trade every single time. And before anyone disputes that fact, tell me again how good of a trade it was when you know damn well that Seattle will most likely need to dish out the largest safety contract in history to keep him. That hurts. Especially when he isn't even worth that.


    Yet when we were getting burnt and not stopping teams you all were saying how our secondary sucks and that Thompson was the cause, we got Diggs and then it was we don't have a SS that can hold up against the run.

    We also heard the complaining about no pass rush, well Adams can play the run and pass rush if asked, he also did it with two messed up shoulders and broken fingers on his hands. Is he suppose to leap tall Lineman in a single bound and stop a speeding WR at the same time also.
    chris98251
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  • chris98251 wrote:
    Thepeelsessions wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:I like Adams as a player, but JS/PC got absolutely fleeced in that trade.


    Agreed. I didn't read the article, but in the end, the only thing that matters is is Adams worth the massive investment. I'm not sure he is. Actually, to me, he absolutely is not.

    The Hawks gave up a 2021 1st and 3rd (already low on draft picks), a 2022 1st, and a very serviceable starting safety. Plus, they traded for Diggs and drafted Blair last year. PLUS, they need to sign him to an extremely large extension. And if they don't? Well....

    All that for a box safety and a 4th rounder. I'm sorry, but that is asinine. Sure Adams is an "all-pro", the best part of his game is his run support and blitzing abilities. I've said it before, but if that's how they want to use him, they might as well move him to OLB. What's the point in having him as a piece of a VERY weak secondary? He's not great in coverage.

    Only the hardcore Pete and John truthers will say it's a great trade. It absolutely was not a great trade for Seattle. If New York plays their cards right and nail the picks from Seattle, they win that trade every single time. And before anyone disputes that fact, tell me again how good of a trade it was when you know damn well that Seattle will most likely need to dish out the largest safety contract in history to keep him. That hurts. Especially when he isn't even worth that.


    Yet when we were getting burnt and not stopping teams you all were saying how our secondary sucks and that Thompson was the cause, we got Diggs and then it was we don't have a SS that can hold up against the run.

    We also heard the complaining about no pass rush, well Adams can play the run and pass rush if asked, he also did it with two messed up shoulders and broken fingers on his hands. Is he suppose to leap tall Lineman in a single bound and stop a speeding WR at the same time also.


    A few things here, Chris. First of all, our secondary did suck and so did Tedric. In fact, all of Pete and John's investments into the secondary have sucked since the LOB was blown up, save for Diggs, McDougald, and Blair (keeping Adams out if this one).

    Second of all, Adams is a fine player, absolutely. But that doesn't mean you need to mortgage your future away to get him. I can only think of a handful of safeties who are worth that kind of investment, and Adams is not one of them.
    Thepeelsessions
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  • Thepeelsessions wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    Thepeelsessions wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:I like Adams as a player, but JS/PC got absolutely fleeced in that trade.


    Agreed. I didn't read the article, but in the end, the only thing that matters is is Adams worth the massive investment. I'm not sure he is. Actually, to me, he absolutely is not.

    The Hawks gave up a 2021 1st and 3rd (already low on draft picks), a 2022 1st, and a very serviceable starting safety. Plus, they traded for Diggs and drafted Blair last year. PLUS, they need to sign him to an extremely large extension. And if they don't? Well....

    All that for a box safety and a 4th rounder. I'm sorry, but that is asinine. Sure Adams is an "all-pro", the best part of his game is his run support and blitzing abilities. I've said it before, but if that's how they want to use him, they might as well move him to OLB. What's the point in having him as a piece of a VERY weak secondary? He's not great in coverage.

    Only the hardcore Pete and John truthers will say it's a great trade. It absolutely was not a great trade for Seattle. If New York plays their cards right and nail the picks from Seattle, they win that trade every single time. And before anyone disputes that fact, tell me again how good of a trade it was when you know damn well that Seattle will most likely need to dish out the largest safety contract in history to keep him. That hurts. Especially when he isn't even worth that.


    Yet when we were getting burnt and not stopping teams you all were saying how our secondary sucks and that Thompson was the cause, we got Diggs and then it was we don't have a SS that can hold up against the run.

    We also heard the complaining about no pass rush, well Adams can play the run and pass rush if asked, he also did it with two messed up shoulders and broken fingers on his hands. Is he suppose to leap tall Lineman in a single bound and stop a speeding WR at the same time also.


    A few things here, Chris. First of all, our secondary did suck and so did Tedric. In fact, all of Pete and John's investments into the secondary have sucked since the LOB was blown up, save for Diggs, McDougald, and Blair (keeping Adams out if this one).

    Second of all, Adams is a fine player, absolutely. But that doesn't mean you need to mortgage your future away to get him. I can only think of a handful of safeties who are worth that kind of investment, and Adams is not one of them.


    How many players are here from our Super Bowl, I will save you the time, Wagner and Wilson, that is it.

    We churn through players like it's nobody's business, where and is the last first rounder that has made a major impact on our team last picked?

    We are used to not having impact guys in the first round, Pete trades higher picks back also to save dollars and gain more picks after the first year.
    chris98251
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  • Everyone should remember that all first round picks are not equal, especially after we saw how many firsts the niners traded away to move up 9 spots.

    That being said, this trade seems to have aged poorly.
    beastalamode
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  • I really, really like Adams as a player, despite his weaknesses. BUT, he ain't superman and I think he has a long tall ladder to climb to have the positive impact we might have achieved with 2 firsts and a 3rd. The money is kind of irrelevant.
    Appyhawk
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  • Appyhawk wrote:I really, really like Adams as a player, despite his weaknesses. BUT, he ain't superman and I think he has a long tall ladder to climb to have the positive impact we might have achieved with 2 firsts and a 3rd. The money is kind of irrelevant.


    Germain Ifedi
    Rashaad Penny
    James Carpenter
    Aaron Curry
    Lawrence Jackson

    Those are part of the actual picks we have made in the last 10 years.

    How much positive impacts did they have or are having so far.
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Re: Making cents of the Jamal Adams trade
Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:17 pm
  • Man this stuff is getting old. When do people just decide to move on? Original post talked about money involved and how it presents itself in the future. We got guys saying the seahawks got fleeced and Adam's sucks in coverage. Both are wrong.

    We got a good player no matter what. What's the use in two draft picks if they dont pan out to be atleast one good player or even worse...none. No use.

    There is a bigger history of failures drafting then there are successes.

    Big time players come from all rounds and even undrafted. You guys are holding to much weight in seahawks decision making like you make the choices yourself. Get over it.

    Adam's is a great player and there isnt even one other player in the nfl like him. That's worth 4 first rounders. He is the only other player, beside russ, who holds that weight on the seahawks. Keep saying safeties are unimportant or he is just a box safety. Again...incorrect. he covers tight, blitzes, pressures, negative yards and reads passes out of the backfield. All from the defensive qb position and playing the whole field in front of him.
    jamescasey1124
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  • It's generally not a good sign when the main argument in favor of the Adams trade is "we suck at drafting anyway"
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