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Carlos Dunlap said he spoke with Russell Wilson before re-si

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  • I never really had a doubt.
    Appyhawk
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  • But but something something Adam Schefter said...

    *insert 1000 word blog here*
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  • Los should’ve asked if Russ had learned to read two high safeties
    Throwdown
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  • There is a lot of meat in the rest of that article, Dunlap talking one reason he likes the Seahawks FO

    Dunlap said the Seahawks made it clear to him when they acquired him in a trade with the Cincinnati Bengals last October that they might have to release him after the season. He cited that transparency as one of the reasons he wanted to return to Seattle.

    "They were very transparent and that's something I appreciate from Day 1 coming in. When we were doing the signing and the trade, they let me know that this would be a potential move in the [offseason], and then when it actually happened, yeah, it still hit different because I've never been cut before," he said. "But they were still very transparent.
    "
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  • Throwdown wrote:Los should’ve asked if Russ had learned to read two high safeties


    Oh you haven't heard?

    You just need to run the ball more.
    misfit
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  • A lot of people around Russ said he's not going anywhere. How about Russ and Pete just come out together and squash this if that was the case.
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  • ^ BC NFL is entertainment, at a time where there’s not much going on, no and this might be the only thing keeping heads turned from the Watson drama. Just some junk food for thought.
    Pandion Haliaetus
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  • Throwdown wrote:Los should’ve asked if Russ had learned to read two high safeties



    LOl you are funny If only the fact showed you were wrong. ESPN paid site on rating against 2 high safeties 105. But dont worry I am sure you will something else to say he cant do even though he has his whole career.

    The question you should have been asking is if they were playing 2 high safety why did the OC and PC keep calling long routes.

    Also his Qb rating against 2 high safeties this past year


    94.6
    119.8
    102.9
    78
    122.6
    57
    94


    Hmm yes some bad games but alot more good ones


    FYi the bad games also coincided with 4+ sacks in each of them
    John63
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  • Seahawk_Dan wrote:A lot of people around Russ said he's not going anywhere. How about Russ and Pete just come out together and squash this if that was the case.



    Well Dunlap an actual named person not unnamed, said Wilson said this. Maybe the issue is to PC and Wilson its not worth it. Also, even if they did it would not change anything. You would still hear it from the media, people would say they are just saying it. they don't really mean it etc etc
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:
    Seahawk_Dan wrote:A lot of people around Russ said he's not going anywhere. How about Russ and Pete just come out together and squash this if that was the case.



    Well Dunlap an actual named person not unnamed, said Wilson said this. Maybe the issue is to PC and Wilson its not worth it. Also, even if they did it would not change anything. You would still hear it from the media, people would say they are just saying it. they don't really mean it etc etc


    I disagree. I don't care if Dunlap is attached, he's just as much a 3rd Party as anyone else. Russ and Pete coming out with either a contract restructuring or flat out saying, "No, I'm (Russell) an here to stay." Would be the only definitive answer that matters.
    Seahawk_Dan
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  • Seahawk_Dan wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Seahawk_Dan wrote:A lot of people around Russ said he's not going anywhere. How about Russ and Pete just come out together and squash this if that was the case.



    Well Dunlap an actual named person not unnamed, said Wilson said this. Maybe the issue is to PC and Wilson its not worth it. Also, even if they did it would not change anything. You would still hear it from the media, people would say they are just saying it. they don't really mean it etc etc


    I disagree. I don't care if Dunlap is attached, he's just as much a 3rd Party as anyone else. Russ and Pete coming out with either a contract restructuring or flat out saying, "No, I'm (Russell) an here to stay." Would be the only definitive answer that matters.



    No it would not as they could still trade him. Fyi Wilson has not asked to be traded and said he wants to stay a hawk. So why should he have to say anything he never asked for a trade. Also ahh so his teamate who spoke to him goes on record saying what Wilson told him and u think that is the same as some unnamed source saying someone in the know said something else.

    Wow if you don't see the difference than you need help.
    John63
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  • Russ already screwed the hawks organization. When he started b!@ch to the media, he scared away tons of potential free agents. Free agents don't want to go to a chaotic organization. Dunlap's conversation revealed exactly what other FAs were thinking about the hawks. Russ screwed the Hawks. Plain and simple.
    hangumhi
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  • hangumhi wrote:Russ already screwed the hawks organization. When he started b!@ch to the media, he scared away tons of potential free agents. Free agents don't want to go to a chaotic organization. Dunlap's conversation revealed exactly what other FAs were thinking about the hawks. Russ screwed the Hawks. Plain and simple.



    1st your proof he scared away anyone? Never mind u have none.
    2nd the org screwed the organization by looking at other QBs making FAs wonder if Wilson would be here.

    You mention Dunlap it should telling to you that he cared more about Wilson than the FO.

    Plain and simple the org screwed the org

    Fyi Wilson is in part responsible for why we got Carson and Dunlap back. We did not have a lot of money money FA anyway.



    And again unhave no evidence Wilson has scared away anyone.
    John63
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  • hangumhi wrote:Russ already screwed the hawks organization. When he started b!@ch to the media, he scared away tons of potential free agents. Free agents don't want to go to a chaotic organization. Dunlap's conversation revealed exactly what other FAs were thinking about the hawks. Russ screwed the Hawks. Plain and simple.

    Jokes on you, cuz Seattle doesn't like good free agents. Ha haha
    misfit
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  • And here I was thinking being tight to the cap was the reason that this was a tough year to bring in free agents.
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  • Wilson let Carlos know he would be QB this coming season.

    That was the most likely scenario to almost any observer. We pretty much expected this.

    Will Wilson stay longer? That seems unlikely but then it was shocking that he even chose to do another contract with this team in the first place. It seemed like he was gone for sure as soon as he could be a FA, but he signed that large contract. So it is a mystery.

    He probably is lamenting that a bit, because since that time it has been peaks and valleys, with most of the valleys coming in the playoffs.

    Wilson has done enough for this team that he probably deserves a chance to show he can be a great QB in the playoffs, but it won't happen here. So we shouldn't begrudge him if he wants a chance to play under an effective gameday coach or a good offensive mind.

    Who knows how much better he could be?

    But ultimately, if it got us Carlos - then it was a win.

    We probably need to just enjoy the time we have left with Wilson, appreciate what a great QB he is, and how he has kept this team relevant since the SB loss. Once Wilson leaves, there is no way this team remains relevant, maybe not even competitive.

    But adding guys like Carlos let's us continue the ride for a little while longer.
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  • Wilson is a great QB in the playoffs and that is because he plays with a competitive team and he otherwise is an elite QB. It was clear though by the end of the season that the team needed to protect Wilson better and that the team needed to be able to establish a better running attack to allow play action to work in order to further help Wilson.

    I suspect now Wilson regrets speaking publicly to Dan Patrick about his concerns over the Line and him getting hit too much. I suspect as well the agent overstepped his authority in announcing how many teams and which teams he'd agree to be traded to if traded. The media blew that way out of proportion. Wilson knows from the questions asked of him that his going public hurt the team some in FA as FAs may be wary of coming here if the situation is uncertain with his future here.

    Not buying the horsepuckey that Wilson's gone after this coming season, and the BS that the team (by extension Carroll) is holding him back. A few tweaks and this team is solidly back in the playoff hunt again if not already with Wilson being here. Wilson's statement to Dunlap in response to a question of him didn't put the time limit on it suggested above.

    It seems to matter little to some here that statements by Wilson to other that he's not going anywhere and is here for the long haul have any import when the repeated agendas of those folks is to blame Carroll or see either Carroll and/or Wilson gone to create some new but unstated supposed improvement in the team's fortunes. Go ahead and spin the negativity though, after all it's just an opinion which is short on factual basis.
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  • misfit wrote:
    hangumhi wrote:Russ already screwed the hawks organization. When he started b!@ch to the media, he scared away tons of potential free agents. Free agents don't want to go to a chaotic organization. Dunlap's conversation revealed exactly what other FAs were thinking about the hawks. Russ screwed the Hawks. Plain and simple.


    Jokes on you, cuz Seattle doesn't like good free agents. Ha haha


    I doubt that is true about good FAs. However, it is true they don't like really expensive FAs
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  • 24/7 Russ and Front Office blasting on dot negative.
    Yep.......nothing has changed :?
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Wilson let Carlos know he would be QB this coming season.

    That was the most likely scenario to almost any observer. We pretty much expected this.

    Will Wilson stay longer? That seems unlikely but then it was shocking that he even chose to do another contract with this team in the first place. It seemed like he was gone for sure as soon as he could be a FA, but he signed that large contract. So it is a mystery.

    He probably is lamenting that a bit, because since that time it has been peaks and valleys, with most of the valleys coming in the playoffs.

    Wilson has done enough for this team that he probably deserves a chance to show he can be a great QB in the playoffs, but it won't happen here. So we shouldn't begrudge him if he wants a chance to play under an effective gameday coach or a good offensive mind.

    Who knows how much better he could be?

    But ultimately, if it got us Carlos - then it was a win.

    We probably need to just enjoy the time we have left with Wilson, appreciate what a great QB he is, and how he has kept this team relevant since the SB loss. Once Wilson leaves, there is no way this team remains relevant, maybe not even competitive.

    But adding guys like Carlos let's us continue the ride for a little while longer.


    In all fairness to Russ, he signed that contract before realizing the ownership was going to give a ridiculous 5 year extension to a 70 year old coach. The griping started after the extension. There's only 3 possible scenarios moving forward -

    From worst to best-
    1. Russ leaves after next season and Carroll stays for duration of extension
    2. Russ stays and Pete stays for duration of extension which means team is stuck in current cycle of early playoff exits if they even make the playoffs (what seems to be the chosen path of most fans for some reason)
    3. Russ stays and Pete leaves within a couple years and the Hawks try something different while Wilson is still in his prime (my choice)
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  • I would love to see #3 just to see if change could get us over the hump.

    Understand this could be like getting rid George Karl because you don't advance in the playoffs, only to find out you stop making the playoffs entirely under a new coach. But it is worth the risk because the primary driver for success in the new NFL is the QB, not so much the coach. But a coach can hold a team back or push it over the hump too.

    The example is McCarthy and Rodgers.

    By all rights, Wilson and Rodgers should be duking it out for divisional wins and trips to the NFC conference games.

    That is not what is happening.

    Are we going to argue that GB has consistently better rosters than the Seahawks?
    No, they even miss the playoffs more than we do.

    Is Aaron Rodgers that much better than Wilson?
    Not sure I even agree on that one.

    Is the coaching in the playoffs set up to maximize the effectiveness of their star QB?
    You could certainly argue GB does a better job of that than us, especially when they get there. I don't think I have ever really seen GB get utterly embarrassed in the playoffs....it happens to us almost regularly.

    And McCarthy isn't even a great coach. But he knew enough to focus on what he could to make sure his QB could win games for him. Didn't always work but rarely turned into a boatrace like some of our playoff games do.

    Who knows what the future brings with Wilson, because it made no sense for him to re-sign with us in the first place.

    I will take as many extra years we can get of him and Carlos though, now we just need Clowney.
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:I would love to see #3 just to see if change could get us over the hump.

    Understand this could be like getting rid George Karl because you don't advance in the playoffs, only to find out you stop making the playoffs entirely under a new coach. But it is worth the risk because the primary driver for success in the new NFL is the QB, not so much the coach. But a coach can hold a team back or push it over the hump too.

    The example is McCarthy and Rodgers.

    By all rights, Wilson and Rodgers should be duking it out for divisional wins and trips to the NFC conference games.

    That is not what is happening.

    Are we going to argue that GB has consistently better rosters than the Seahawks?
    No, they even miss the playoffs more than we do.

    Is Aaron Rodgers that much better than Wilson?
    Not sure I even agree on that one.

    Is the coaching in the playoffs set up to maximize the effectiveness of their star QB?
    You could certainly argue GB does a better job of that than us, especially when they get there. I don't think I have ever really seen GB get utterly embarrassed in the playoffs....it happens to us almost regularly.

    And McCarthy isn't even a great coach. But he knew enough to focus on what he could to make sure his QB could win games for him. Didn't always work but rarely turned into a boatrace like some of our playoff games do.

    Who knows what the future brings with Wilson, because it made no sense for him to re-sign with us in the first place.

    I will take as many extra years we can get of him and Carlos though, now we just need Clowney.


    They fired Carl but Wally and previously Whitsitt were the issues, selling out for Centers either broken, past their prime or just not good.

    Getting back to Carroll, his on field philosophy about not adjusting and hoping to keep it close until the 4th quarter is what we have. Once he quits coaching he may still run the Franchise as the President of operations. We don't know what that will mean on the field other then I would bet it would be someone with a like mind set in many ways.
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  • Since Pete Carroll has been the Seahawks head coach, we have had
    seven seasons with playoff victories,
    two seasons of one-and-done in the playoffs, and
    two seasons with no playoff appearances.

    I'm not in a hurry to see Pete or Russ go anywhere.
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  • BlueTalon wrote:Since Pete Carroll has been the Seahawks head coach, we have had
    seven seasons with playoff victories,
    two seasons of one-and-done in the playoffs, and
    two seasons with no playoff appearances.

    I'm not in a hurry to see Pete or Russ go anywhere.



    If everything I have been told is correct then you will not have to any time soon.
    John63
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  • BlueTalon wrote:Since Pete Carroll has been the Seahawks head coach, we have had
    seven seasons with playoff victories,
    two seasons of one-and-done in the playoffs, and
    two seasons with no playoff appearances.

    I'm not in a hurry to see Pete or Russ go anywhere.


    THREE playoff wins in SIX years.

    You don’t give lifetime contracts to Super Bowl winning coaches for EXACTLY this reason.

    He has turned into Marty Shottenheimer.
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  • Pete and Russell go, then the Hawks would have to rebuild over in the ground up about. As really without Russell, the Hawks go south with everything.
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  • JayhawkMike wrote:
    BlueTalon wrote:Since Pete Carroll has been the Seahawks head coach, we have had
    seven seasons with playoff victories,
    two seasons of one-and-done in the playoffs, and
    two seasons with no playoff appearances.

    I'm not in a hurry to see Pete or Russ go anywhere.


    THREE playoff wins in SIX years.

    You don’t give lifetime contracts to Super Bowl winning coaches for EXACTLY this reason.

    He has turned into Marty Shottenheimer.

    Dude, we went 10 years without a playoff *appearance* much less a playoff win. We went 16 consecutive seasons without winning more than 9 games.

    Of the 32 teams in the NFL, we have been to a Super Bowl more recently than 22 of them. The Bengals have gone 30 years without a playoff victory. The Lions have gone 63 years without competing in the NFL Championship or Super Bowl.

    The NFL is a competitive league, and we're in the most competitive division in the league. The worst in our division was 6-10. 3/4 of our division would have been the best team in the NFC East. This division doesn't just hand you the title because you show up with a good coach and a good roster. You have to be better than them, AND avoid the injuries and bad calls that can cost games.

    This is the best time of ANY in Seahawks' history. Many other teams would kill for our success. The only team that has been more successful since 2010 is the New England Patriots, not only did they do it in a crappy division; they also were caught cheating no fewer than 3 times since 2007.

    Be thankful for what we have instead of wishing it would go away.
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  • JayhawkMike wrote:THREE playoff wins in SIX years.

    TEN playoff wins since he's been here. NINE winning seasons in ELEVEN years. And that's nine CONSECUTIVE winning seasons.

    As much as I loved Chuck Knox and Mike Holmgren, I don't want to go back to those versions of Seahawks. I'll take this version.
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  • KiwiHawk wrote:Dude, we went 10 years without a playoff *appearance* much less a playoff win. We went 16 consecutive seasons without winning more than 9 games.


    That was without Wilson. The Hawks have a HOF talent at QB and can hardly make it past the first round of the playoffs. I'll never understand why people are content with that. Instead of worrying about the present, they worry about 30 years ago.
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  • 2020 12-4
    2019 11-5
    2018 10-6
    2017 9-7

    I’d say we’re moving in the right direction. Does it suck losing in the playoffs? Yes it does. Is the front office doing what they think is best to win a ring? Yes they are. Hell they just fired the OC that had 33 wins in 3 seasons and averaged the 8th best offense by points per game over that time because of the lack of playoff wins. All of the FO negativity on here reminds me of a spoiled brat crying about the brand new BMW her parents bought her when she turned 16 because she wanted a Range Rover.

    We’re one of the best organizations in the league and I have full confidence that this coaching staff has and this roster will have the talent to make a deep run in the playoffs.

    We’re still adding talent, hell we’re not even to the draft yet. You guys need to calm down.
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    KiwiHawk wrote:Dude, we went 10 years without a playoff *appearance* much less a playoff win. We went 16 consecutive seasons without winning more than 9 games.


    That was without Wilson. The Hawks have a HOF talent at QB and can hardly make it past the first round of the playoffs. I'll never understand why people are content with that. Instead of worrying about the present, they worry about 30 years ago.


    I don't know anybody that says they're content with it; but I for one do enjoy watching winning seasons week-to-week.

    You have no real method of ensuring more wins, and there's nobody in the coaching list that you could guarantee could do better; most would do worse, as they're demonstrating year-in and year-out.
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  • Ad Hawk wrote:You have no real method of ensuring more wins, and there's nobody in the coaching list that you could guarantee could do better; most would do worse, as they're demonstrating year-in and year-out.


    Of course there's no guarantee, but isnt it worth a shot at this point? The one certainty right now is Carroll is a poor gameday coach that needs superior talent to win and the team is in a pattern of getting thumped once the post season starts. I'm ready to try something new while the team has a talent like Wilson available to them. Most people dont seem to agree, thus being content with the current trend.
    pittpnthrs
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Ad Hawk wrote:You have no real method of ensuring more wins, and there's nobody in the coaching list that you could guarantee could do better; most would do worse, as they're demonstrating year-in and year-out.


    Of course there's no guarantee, but isnt it worth a shot at this point? The one certainty right now is Carroll is a poor gameday coach that needs superior talent to win and the team is in a pattern of getting thumped once the post season starts. I'm ready to try something new while the team has a talent like Wilson available to them. Most people dont seem to agree, thus being content with the current trend.


    Who's content?

    I don't know anyone who's content with losing in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs every year. But unless you have an attractive viable alternative to Pete other than "hey let's just try no more Pete," then I'm out.

    For all of Pete's faults, he IS the Hawks right now. So it's not just X's and O's, gameplanning and on field things, if he's gone so goes the culture, the locker room and the attractiveness of playing in Seattle, of which MANY free agents talk about as to why they sign here. Pete.

    So sure, I'm all for moving on from Pete if you have a better alternative. But I've witnessed 40 years of JAG coaches GM's and coordinators, so be careful what you wish for. Because the quickest way to slip back into eternal 7-9 mediocrity is to get rid of the most successful coach in franchise history without a VERY specific gameplan of how and who you're replacing him with.
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Ad Hawk wrote:You have no real method of ensuring more wins, and there's nobody in the coaching list that you could guarantee could do better; most would do worse, as they're demonstrating year-in and year-out.


    Of course there's no guarantee, but isnt it worth a shot at this point? The one certainty right now is Carroll is a poor gameday coach that needs superior talent to win and the team is in a pattern of getting thumped once the post season starts. I'm ready to try something new while the team has a talent like Wilson available to them. Most people dont seem to agree, thus being content with the current trend.


    Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Thus being OK with the current coach means being willing to accept the risk of a loss while accepting he also knows how to create a winning team. Playoff success demands many things including depth, team-culture, health, play-calling, game-day coaching decisions (time-management, etc.), and many other factors. Nobody consistently gets it right (besides the BB and Brady combo, and even that coach requires superior talent as the Cam Newton-led Patriots showed). Every team needs superior talent to win. When has that NOT been the case? Seriously...

    You want to move on from Pete, but until you have a better alternative, then no, it isn't "worth a shot." It could put the team back into the Mora days of 4-12 or even worse, consistent seasons of 7-9.

    I personally don't watch and enjoy football just for the Super Bowl. I watch it because it's entertaining each week into the darkest part of the year. The Super Bowl is just one more game to win or lose for me in the end, just on a bigger stage. Bragging rights are really worthless. I'd always love a chance to get there, and hope we find a winning solution every year so I can keep watching my favorite team keep playing. But I don't live my life around not getting there or even losing the big game. The pain of SB 49 doesn't linger for me even one little bit.
    Ad Hawk
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  • Ad Hawk wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Ad Hawk wrote:You have no real method of ensuring more wins, and there's nobody in the coaching list that you could guarantee could do better; most would do worse, as they're demonstrating year-in and year-out.


    Of course there's no guarantee, but isnt it worth a shot at this point? The one certainty right now is Carroll is a poor gameday coach that needs superior talent to win and the team is in a pattern of getting thumped once the post season starts. I'm ready to try something new while the team has a talent like Wilson available to them. Most people dont seem to agree, thus being content with the current trend.


    Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Thus being OK with the current coach means being willing to accept the risk of a loss while accepting he also knows how to create a winning team. Playoff success demands many things including depth, team-culture, health, play-calling, game-day coaching decisions (time-management, etc.), and many other factors. Nobody consistently gets it right (besides the BB and Brady combo, and even that coach requires superior talent as the Cam Newton-led Patriots showed). Every team needs superior talent to win. When has that NOT been the case? Seriously...

    You want to move on from Pete, but until you have a better alternative, then no, it isn't "worth a shot." It could put the team back into the Mora days of 4-12 or even worse, consistent seasons of 7-9.

    I personally don't watch and enjoy football just for the Super Bowl. I watch it because it's entertaining each week into the darkest part of the year. The Super Bowl is just one more game to win or lose for me in the end, just on a bigger stage. Bragging rights are really worthless. I'd always love a chance to get there, and hope we find a winning solution every year so I can keep watching my favorite team keep playing. But I don't live my life around not getting there or even losing the big game. The pain of SB 49 doesn't linger for me even one little bit.


    Past performance does denote a trend, I don't think people would have as much of an issue if the way we lost wasn't pretty much a replay of the previous seasons loss. We do not go for the kill, we come to games tentative and not like we are the predator. We take what we we are given rather then take what we want. We use basically the same game plan with new players. Very easy to game plan against when a team just has to look at what you do year after year and what teams have done to shut it down.
    chris98251
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Who's content?

    I don't know anyone who's content with losing in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs every year. But unless you have an attractive viable alternative to Pete other than "hey let's just try no more Pete," then I'm out.

    For all of Pete's faults, he IS the Hawks right now. So it's not just X's and O's, gameplanning and on field things, if he's gone so goes the culture, the locker room and the attractiveness of playing in Seattle, of which MANY free agents talk about as to why they sign here. Pete.

    So sure, I'm all for moving on from Pete if you have a better alternative. But I've witnessed 40 years of JAG coaches GM's and coordinators, so be careful what you wish for. Because the quickest way to slip back into eternal 7-9 mediocrity is to get rid of the most successful coach in franchise history without a VERY specific gameplan of how and who you're replacing him with.


    Who's content? Everybody thats satisfied with the current team and the current trend, coach included. Apparently you seem content with it.

    Pete and his culture is great, but the team needs an adaptive, current thinking coach and not a best friend. That great culture isnt equating to getting any closer to a Super Bowl. The team is stuck.

    The last point is where people get lost. Wilson is the reason the team is as successful as it is, not Pete. You take away Russ and Seattle is a 7-9 team. Without Wilson Carroll has a sub .500 record in the NFL. What exactly are you looking for when you say an attractive, viable option to Carroll? Somebody you approve of? Wilson guarantees 9 to 10 wins a season. I would take my chances on any younger, creative coach at this point. Face it, Pete is never going to get the team close to the Super Bowl again, thinking otherwise is just being delusional, so why not try somebody new? Yes it could fail, but at least they tried while they still have one of the best QB's in the league. As is, we all know how the season is going to end before it even starts.
    pittpnthrs
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  • Ad Hawk wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Ad Hawk wrote:You have no real method of ensuring more wins, and there's nobody in the coaching list that you could guarantee could do better; most would do worse, as they're demonstrating year-in and year-out.


    Of course there's no guarantee, but isnt it worth a shot at this point? The one certainty right now is Carroll is a poor gameday coach that needs superior talent to win and the team is in a pattern of getting thumped once the post season starts. I'm ready to try something new while the team has a talent like Wilson available to them. Most people dont seem to agree, thus being content with the current trend.


    Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Thus being OK with the current coach means being willing to accept the risk of a loss while accepting he also knows how to create a winning team. Playoff success demands many things including depth, team-culture, health, play-calling, game-day coaching decisions (time-management, etc.), and many other factors. Nobody consistently gets it right (besides the BB and Brady combo, and even that coach requires superior talent as the Cam Newton-led Patriots showed). Every team needs superior talent to win. When has that NOT been the case? Seriously...

    You want to move on from Pete, but until you have a better alternative, then no, it isn't "worth a shot." It could put the team back into the Mora days of 4-12 or even worse, consistent seasons of 7-9.

    I personally don't watch and enjoy football just for the Super Bowl. I watch it because it's entertaining each week into the darkest part of the year. The Super Bowl is just one more game to win or lose for me in the end, just on a bigger stage. Bragging rights are really worthless. I'd always love a chance to get there, and hope we find a winning solution every year so I can keep watching my favorite team keep playing. But I don't live my life around not getting there or even losing the big game. The pain of SB 49 doesn't linger for me even one little bit.


    Past performances does kind of guarantee future results. With Pete's antiquated philosophy and the current team makeup, its not so much accepting a loss, its more about expecting it. Looking at the team, it doesnt appear to be any better than it was last season and they only have 3 picks going into the draft. Why should anybody expect them to do better? Playyoff success has a lot to do with coaching and Pete has been behind the curve for some time now. The Rams were beat to hell with a 4 finngured QB and their best defensive player playing hurt and they still thumped the Hawks. That was purely a better coach taking advantage of an inferior coach.

    There is no way possible the team falls to 4-12 with Russell Wilson. Its highly unlikely they would fall to 7-9 unless Russ got hurt.

    The Super Bowl is the big prize. It should be the goal every season with Wilson. Anything less than divisional round losses should be considered a failure. The pain of SB49 will always be there for me. So is the 2005 SB loss. Guess i'm just more invested than you, but thats OK. Its why I want changes made.
    pittpnthrs
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Who's content?

    I don't know anyone who's content with losing in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs every year. But unless you have an attractive viable alternative to Pete other than "hey let's just try no more Pete," then I'm out.

    For all of Pete's faults, he IS the Hawks right now. So it's not just X's and O's, gameplanning and on field things, if he's gone so goes the culture, the locker room and the attractiveness of playing in Seattle, of which MANY free agents talk about as to why they sign here. Pete.

    So sure, I'm all for moving on from Pete if you have a better alternative. But I've witnessed 40 years of JAG coaches GM's and coordinators, so be careful what you wish for. Because the quickest way to slip back into eternal 7-9 mediocrity is to get rid of the most successful coach in franchise history without a VERY specific gameplan of how and who you're replacing him with.


    Who's content? Everybody thats satisfied with the current team and the current trend, coach included. Apparently you seem content with it.

    Pete and his culture is great, but the team needs an adaptive, current thinking coach and not a best friend. That great culture isnt equating to getting any closer to a Super Bowl. The team is stuck.

    The last point is where people get lost. Wilson is the reason the team is as successful as it is, not Pete. You take away Russ and Seattle is a 7-9 team. Without Wilson Carroll has a sub .500 record in the NFL. What exactly are you looking for when you say an attractive, viable option to Carroll? Somebody you approve of? Wilson guarantees 9 to 10 wins a season. I would take my chances on any younger, creative coach at this point. Face it, Pete is never going to get the team close to the Super Bowl again, thinking otherwise is just being delusional, so why not try somebody new? Yes it could fail, but at least they tried while they still have one of the best QB's in the league. As is, we all know how the season is going to end before it even starts.


    Well, I think the response falls flat on it's face ................

    The prerequisite to success in sports and business is to develop a plan. Ya got to have a plan. Throwing ideas up against a wall just to see what sticks is not a plan. Ya got to have a well thought out plan.

    I have no idea why posts can't acknowledge week to week changes driven by changing game plans for different opponents, injury or personnel change. Ignoring so much of what's going on around a chosen favorite is terribly incomplete. It's doesn't come close to addressing team needs or forecasting it's future. Nor does in come remotely close to presenting itself as an objective post.

    Continuing with the obvious ......... there are 10 other offensive positions on the field and 11 defensive positions. Plus all those other competitors on the other side of the line of scrimmage. Plus lets not forget the rotating crew of officials.

    Sorry, it's just not an objective or informative post. :229031_shrug:
    Jville
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  • We have Pete. We are stuck with him.

    But the defense right now is stuck with the Appeal to Authority because he has nothing else to offer.

    Pete has done nothing but fall short of expectations since his SB loss.

    Since that moment, he has never once exceeded expectations, but for winning the division last year...which was actually falling short of expectations given our performance in the playoffs. And even winning the division was more the other teams stumbling than us taking any steps forward.

    The argument that we really have made the playoffs regularly as a consequence of Wilson's play, not Pete's coaching is hard to refute. Once Wilson leaves and Pete regularly misses the playoffs it will become canon.

    But either way, we have Pete - so there is little we can do but deal with it and hope that the team can somehow play well enough to overcome Pete's poor gameday coaching and terrible decisioning with coordinators.

    It isn't changing.
    Last edited by TwistedHusky on Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    TwistedHusky
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Who's content?

    I don't know anyone who's content with losing in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs every year. But unless you have an attractive viable alternative to Pete other than "hey let's just try no more Pete," then I'm out.

    For all of Pete's faults, he IS the Hawks right now. So it's not just X's and O's, gameplanning and on field things, if he's gone so goes the culture, the locker room and the attractiveness of playing in Seattle, of which MANY free agents talk about as to why they sign here. Pete.

    So sure, I'm all for moving on from Pete if you have a better alternative. But I've witnessed 40 years of JAG coaches GM's and coordinators, so be careful what you wish for. Because the quickest way to slip back into eternal 7-9 mediocrity is to get rid of the most successful coach in franchise history without a VERY specific gameplan of how and who you're replacing him with.


    Who's content? Everybody thats satisfied with the current team and the current trend, coach included. Apparently you seem content with it.

    Pete and his culture is great, but the team needs an adaptive, current thinking coach and not a best friend. That great culture isnt equating to getting any closer to a Super Bowl. The team is stuck.

    The last point is where people get lost. Wilson is the reason the team is as successful as it is, not Pete. You take away Russ and Seattle is a 7-9 team. Without Wilson Carroll has a sub .500 record in the NFL. What exactly are you looking for when you say an attractive, viable option to Carroll? Somebody you approve of? Wilson guarantees 9 to 10 wins a season. I would take my chances on any younger, creative coach at this point. Face it, Pete is never going to get the team close to the Super Bowl again, thinking otherwise is just being delusional, so why not try somebody new? Yes it could fail, but at least they tried while they still have one of the best QB's in the league. As is, we all know how the season is going to end before it even starts.


    It's both, to not give Pete any credit for the longest run of success in franchise history is being intellectually dishonest to this conversation.

    We didn't win a SB and get within 40 seconds of winning another one because of Russell. We did those things because Pete and John built one of the greatest defenses of all time, and made savvy shrewd moves like trading for Marshawn.

    And to move on from that is not just a snap of a finger, it requires an WHOLESALE shift from ownership down.

    Which is something you and other's never mention when we have these discussions, Jody Allen. Do you really think Jody Allen has the football or business acumen to be the owner to steward a new coaching staff?

    I sure don't. That's the very reason she gave Pete and John new contracts, she wanted nothing to do with a change.

    So if you want Pete gone, then you better start talking about Allen and trusting her and the Hawk's brass to make the right choice. I don't know her, but I know she had an NFL franchise dropped in her lap with ZERO appetite for firing Pete and making a coaching change.
    Sgt. Largent
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Who's content?

    I don't know anyone who's content with losing in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs every year. But unless you have an attractive viable alternative to Pete other than "hey let's just try no more Pete," then I'm out.

    For all of Pete's faults, he IS the Hawks right now. So it's not just X's and O's, gameplanning and on field things, if he's gone so goes the culture, the locker room and the attractiveness of playing in Seattle, of which MANY free agents talk about as to why they sign here. Pete.

    So sure, I'm all for moving on from Pete if you have a better alternative. But I've witnessed 40 years of JAG coaches GM's and coordinators, so be careful what you wish for. Because the quickest way to slip back into eternal 7-9 mediocrity is to get rid of the most successful coach in franchise history without a VERY specific gameplan of how and who you're replacing him with.


    Who's content? Everybody thats satisfied with the current team and the current trend, coach included. Apparently you seem content with it.

    Pete and his culture is great, but the team needs an adaptive, current thinking coach and not a best friend. That great culture isnt equating to getting any closer to a Super Bowl. The team is stuck.

    The last point is where people get lost. Wilson is the reason the team is as successful as it is, not Pete. You take away Russ and Seattle is a 7-9 team. Without Wilson Carroll has a sub .500 record in the NFL. What exactly are you looking for when you say an attractive, viable option to Carroll? Somebody you approve of? Wilson guarantees 9 to 10 wins a season. I would take my chances on any younger, creative coach at this point. Face it, Pete is never going to get the team close to the Super Bowl again, thinking otherwise is just being delusional, so why not try somebody new? Yes it could fail, but at least they tried while they still have one of the best QB's in the league. As is, we all know how the season is going to end before it even starts.


    It's both, to not give Pete any credit for the longest run of success in franchise history is being intellectually dishonest to this conversation.

    We didn't win a SB and get within 40 seconds of winning another one because of Russell. We did those things because Pete and John built one of the greatest defenses of all time, and made savvy shrewd moves like trading for Marshawn.

    And to move on from that is not just a snap of a finger, it requires an WHOLESALE shift from ownership down.

    Which is something you and other's never mention when we have these discussions, Jody Allen. Do you really think Jody Allen has the football or business acumen to be the owner to steward a new coaching staff?

    I sure don't. That's the very reason she gave Pete and John new contracts, she wanted nothing to do with a change.

    So if you want Pete gone, then you better start talking about Allen and trusting her and the Hawk's brass to make the right choice. I don't know her, but I know she had an NFL franchise dropped in her lap with ZERO appetite for firing Pete and making a coaching change.


    I do give Pete and John credit for forming a great team. As much credit as I give Pete for creating that legendary defense, I also give him credit for dismantling it far to quickly. Even that great defense rebelled against Pete due to boneheaded coaching and a culture they no longer bought into.

    No the Hawks didnt win the Super Bowl because of Wilson, but he is the reason the Hawks have stayed afloat for years now. Make no mistake about that.

    I've mentioned Jody Allen numerous times. She took over the team as a favor to her brother and the city of Seattle. She also has zero interest in the team except for the profit they make. She gave Carroll a 5 year extension so he could babysit the franchise so she wouldnt have to. Thats a huge problem. Pete has absolutely nobody he answers to and Jody isnt smart enough to recognize if changes need to be made. In the big scheme of things, she's a terrible owner. As soon as the team quits turning a profit, she'll sell.
    pittpnthrs
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:I've mentioned Jody Allen numerous times. She took over the team as a favor to her brother and the city of Seattle. She also has zero interest in the team except for the profit they make. She gave Carroll a 5 year extension so he could babysit the franchise so she wouldnt have to. Thats a huge problem. Pete has absolutely nobody he answers to and Jody isnt smart enough to recognize if changes need to be made. In the big scheme of things, she's a terrible owner. As soon as the team quits turning a profit, she'll sell.

    Changes *were* made.

    Cable was fired when is OL wasn't working and was replaced by Solari. Two years in we're writing him off? It's not easy to re-vamp an OL while breaking the bank for a QB. You can't just hire all the free agents out there.

    We let Russ cook but Schottenheimer wasn't up to the task. He was fired and replaced with a more innovative passing game coordinator.

    In LA, Waldron oversaw Jared Goff who got rid of the ball a half second quicker than Wilson, threw the ball an average 1.5 yards shorter (average air yards per pass), but had only 0.3 fewer yards per pass attempt than Wilson holding the ball forever and throwing hail Marys.

    This move is *specifically* designed to protect Russ and to use him more effectively. Defensive linemen run the 40 in around 4.5 to 5 seconds. That means every half second they cover around 4 yards. If Wilson can release a half second sooner, on average, he's going to take fewer hits.

    Waldron schemes receivers open. We know the damage Metcalf and Lockett can do when they get the ball in space. We brought in Everett who can play running back, wide receiver, and tight end, because he complicates things for defenses which is part of getting Lockett and Metcalf open.

    We even brought in an excellent guard, retained our center, and are shopping for additional OL right now.

    You haven't seen the result of these changes on the field, and you're already writing it all off. That's ridiculous. You want change, and change got made. Now see how it does, and THEN judge it.
    KiwiHawk
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  • KiwiHawk wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:I've mentioned Jody Allen numerous times. She took over the team as a favor to her brother and the city of Seattle. She also has zero interest in the team except for the profit they make. She gave Carroll a 5 year extension so he could babysit the franchise so she wouldnt have to. Thats a huge problem. Pete has absolutely nobody he answers to and Jody isnt smart enough to recognize if changes need to be made. In the big scheme of things, she's a terrible owner. As soon as the team quits turning a profit, she'll sell.

    Changes *were* made.

    Cable was fired when is OL wasn't working and was replaced by Solari. Two years in we're writing him off? It's not easy to re-vamp an OL while breaking the bank for a QB. You can't just hire all the free agents out there.

    We let Russ cook but Schottenheimer wasn't up to the task. He was fired and replaced with a more innovative passing game coordinator.

    In LA, Waldron oversaw Jared Goff who got rid of the ball a half second quicker than Wilson, threw the ball an average 1.5 yards shorter (average air yards per pass), but had only 0.3 fewer yards per pass attempt than Wilson holding the ball forever and throwing hail Marys.

    This move is *specifically* designed to protect Russ and to use him more effectively. Defensive linemen run the 40 in around 4.5 to 5 seconds. That means every half second they cover around 4 yards. If Wilson can release a half second sooner, on average, he's going to take fewer hits.

    Waldron schemes receivers open. We know the damage Metcalf and Lockett can do when they get the ball in space. We brought in Everett who can play running back, wide receiver, and tight end, because he complicates things for defenses which is part of getting Lockett and Metcalf open.

    We even brought in an excellent guard, retained our center, and are shopping for additional OL right now.

    You haven't seen the result of these changes on the field, and you're already writing it all off. That's ridiculous. You want change, and change got made. Now see how it does, and THEN judge it.


    Cable and Bevell were fired 3 years to late. Solari was hired and has been trying to make a steak out of hamburger. Hard to have a good line when the FO whiffs so often on personel.

    Ah yes, Waldron. The next great hope. The new OC that has never been an OC before. The 4th OC in Petes 10 years. See a pattern there? What Waldron did in LA wont equate to what he does here. Why? Pete Carroll. At some point during the season, Pete will do what he always does and implement Pete Ball after Russ throws a couple ints in a game, thus neutering what the OC was trying to do. Its inevitable. He did it for years with Bevell, did it with Schotty, and he'll do it with Waldron. He cant help himself. When all these changes are being made and the results always stay the same, at some point you have to step back and take a look at the guy making the decisions.

    Everett will make minimalist contributions (no idea why people are so high on a mediocre TE), Jackson was a nice pickup, they retained the same crappy center, and are now looking for the usual depth JAGS they always end up signing. Team will probably back into the playoffs, take the usual early exit, fans will rejoice because they at least made the playoffs and the team stunk 30 years ago, rinse and re-pete. Same old, same old.
    pittpnthrs
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  • Since this thread has been hijacked and moved off topic past any hope of redemption, I'll volunteer that it feels like we have all been entrapped in the low budget movie "IDIOCRACY" ....................
    Jville
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:Ah yes, Waldron. The next great hope. The new OC that has never been an OC before. The 4th OC in Petes 10 years. See a pattern there?


    Actually, that's a pretty long average OC tenure. Bates throws things off, being a one-season wonder.

    There are literally 2 off. coordinators in the NFL that were hired before 2018.

    2. That's it. 2. One, and then 2. 1 multiplied by 2. Half of 4.

    Either Pete holds on too long, or he cuts them too soon. Pick one or the other because I've seen you say both, and your BS is exhausting.
    Maelstrom787
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:We have Pete. We are stuck with him.

    But the defense right now is stuck with the Appeal to Authority because he has nothing else to offer.

    Pete has done nothing but fall short of expectations since his SB loss.

    Since that moment, he has never once exceeded expectations, but for winning the division last year...which was actually falling short of expectations given our performance in the playoffs. And even winning the division was more the other teams stumbling than us taking any steps forward.

    The argument that we really have made the playoffs regularly as a consequence of Wilson's play, not Pete's coaching is hard to refute. Once Wilson leaves and Pete regularly misses the playoffs it will become canon.

    But either way, we have Pete - so there is little we can do but deal with it and hope that the team can somehow play well enough to overcome Pete's poor gameday coaching and terrible decisioning with coordinators.

    It isn't changing.


    The team was literally projected as a rebuilding team expected to lose in 2018.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:We have Pete. We are stuck with him.

    But the defense right now is stuck with the Appeal to Authority because he has nothing else to offer.

    Pete has done nothing but fall short of expectations since his SB loss.

    Since that moment, he has never once exceeded expectations, but for winning the division last year...which was actually falling short of expectations given our performance in the playoffs. And even winning the division was more the other teams stumbling than us taking any steps forward.

    The argument that we really have made the playoffs regularly as a consequence of Wilson's play, not Pete's coaching is hard to refute. Once Wilson leaves and Pete regularly misses the playoffs it will become canon.

    But either way, we have Pete - so there is little we can do but deal with it and hope that the team can somehow play well enough to overcome Pete's poor gameday coaching and terrible decisioning with coordinators.

    It isn't changing.


    The team was literally projected as a rebuilding team expected to lose in 2018.



    maybe but doe s that mean it was because of PC or despite PC.
    John63
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Ah yes, Waldron. The next great hope. The new OC that has never been an OC before. The 4th OC in Petes 10 years. See a pattern there?


    Actually, that's a pretty long average OC tenure. Bates throws things off, being a one-season wonder.

    There are literally 2 off. coordinators in the NFL that were hired before 2018.

    2. That's it. 2. One, and then 2. 1 multiplied by 2. Half of 4.

    Either Pete holds on too long, or he cuts them too soon. Pick one or the other because I've seen you say both, and your BS is exhausting.


    Come on. Most OC's move on due to other job opportunities, not because they were fired. Every OC under Pete,,,,,fired.
    pittpnthrs
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Ah yes, Waldron. The next great hope. The new OC that has never been an OC before. The 4th OC in Petes 10 years. See a pattern there?


    Actually, that's a pretty long average OC tenure. Bates throws things off, being a one-season wonder.

    There are literally 2 off. coordinators in the NFL that were hired before 2018.

    2. That's it. 2. One, and then 2. 1 multiplied by 2. Half of 4.

    Either Pete holds on too long, or he cuts them too soon. Pick one or the other because I've seen you say both, and your BS is exhausting.


    Come on. Most OC's move on due to other job opportunities, not because they were fired. Every OC under Pete,,,,,fired.


    That has literally no effect on the Seahawks. None. End result is losing a coach. Schotty was getting head coach mentions in the media before his offense fell apart.

    Also, provide the data showing that more coordinators move up than down, please.
    Maelstrom787
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