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  • John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:We have Pete. We are stuck with him.

    But the defense right now is stuck with the Appeal to Authority because he has nothing else to offer.

    Pete has done nothing but fall short of expectations since his SB loss.

    Since that moment, he has never once exceeded expectations, but for winning the division last year...which was actually falling short of expectations given our performance in the playoffs. And even winning the division was more the other teams stumbling than us taking any steps forward.

    The argument that we really have made the playoffs regularly as a consequence of Wilson's play, not Pete's coaching is hard to refute. Once Wilson leaves and Pete regularly misses the playoffs it will become canon.

    But either way, we have Pete - so there is little we can do but deal with it and hope that the team can somehow play well enough to overcome Pete's poor gameday coaching and terrible decisioning with coordinators.

    It isn't changing.


    The team was literally projected as a rebuilding team expected to lose in 2018.



    maybe but doe s that mean it was because of PC or despite PC.


    He's the head coach and head executive of the organization. This argument is tired and, frankly, completely disconnected from reality. Stunningly ignorant.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:We have Pete. We are stuck with him.

    But the defense right now is stuck with the Appeal to Authority because he has nothing else to offer.

    Pete has done nothing but fall short of expectations since his SB loss.

    Since that moment, he has never once exceeded expectations, but for winning the division last year...which was actually falling short of expectations given our performance in the playoffs. And even winning the division was more the other teams stumbling than us taking any steps forward.

    The argument that we really have made the playoffs regularly as a consequence of Wilson's play, not Pete's coaching is hard to refute. Once Wilson leaves and Pete regularly misses the playoffs it will become canon.

    But either way, we have Pete - so there is little we can do but deal with it and hope that the team can somehow play well enough to overcome Pete's poor gameday coaching and terrible decisioning with coordinators.

    It isn't changing.


    The team was literally projected as a rebuilding team expected to lose in 2018.



    maybe but doe s that mean it was because of PC or despite PC.


    He's the head coach and head executive of the organization. This argument is tired and, frankly, completely disconnected from reality. Stunningly ignorant.


    All the people trying to strip credit and pass blame make me think of the idiots who believed Marshawn Lynch carried the entire team to a Super Bowl title with both arms tied behind his back.
    Maulbert
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  • I stand corrected.

    Carroll has ONCE beaten expectations, as pointed out, in 2018. Of course that is almost the year of Carroll's greatest playoff failure - getting outcoached by Jason Garrett. So calling 2018 a success shows the kind of trash upside Carroll leaves us with now. His greatest accomplishment in the almost 10 years since the SB loss, was capped with getting outcoached by Jason Garrett.

    That is still pretty pathetic.

    What Carroll does is pile up good to very good regular-season records before falling flat in the playoffs now. (No I don't count wildcard games)

    It comes down to being ok with just being good or OK vs wanting to take the risk to be better knowing you have one of the key pieces to doing better. So do you bet on Carroll or Wilson?

    Carroll:
    There is likely no universe where Carroll does better in the playoffs ever again. Almost certainly no future where he makes another SB, likely no chance he even wins a divisional playoff game, and as things continue his chances of even making the playoffs grow smaller.

    Wilson:
    Wilson almost certainly could win playoff games given better gameday coaching and a bit more roster support.


    So Wilson might be 'looking to stay' but I would be shocked if this coming season is not his last year here. He is far too goal-oriented to tolerate Carroll holding him back from success in the playoffs much more. Especially if the question is 'Do you bet on Carroll or Wilson?' because Wilson will ALWAYS bet on himself. (One of the reasons he is so successful in the first place.)
    TwistedHusky
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  • 3 OC's, one Super Bowl that was won by a defense that needed the offense not to lose it and kill time.

    All Three OC's left, the offense has never carried this team really, without outstanding defensive play we crumble without a pounding running game to eat time of possession and rely on hero ball. They took Hero ball away last season with a two deep look. We don't have a Incredible Hulk at RB, we have a good RB but not Lynch.

    What is the common denominator, Gibbs a passing OC, Bevell a Passing OC, Schotty know for a good Run guy but a good passing OC as well.

    I would say Pete does put his finger prints over how the offense functions, he wants the OC's to work in that frame work. When they want to deviate due to a DC figuring stuff out he is reluctant, if something fails or needs tweaking he reverts back to his comfort zone rather then countering. Why we looked so flat that past part of the season.
    chris98251
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  • chris98251 wrote:I would say Pete does put his finger prints over how the offense functions, he wants the OC's to work in that frame work. When they want to deviate due to a DC figuring stuff out he is reluctant, if something fails or needs tweaking he reverts back to his comfort zone rather then countering. Why we looked so flat that past part of the season.


    They didn't revert back to what most of this board thinks is his comfort zone. If they would have, it likely would've been better because Carson is good enough to help sustain drives.

    We can talk about a solid framework all we want for the offense, the fact is that the 2020 offense was a complete departure from what it had been previously in terms of overall philosophy.
    Maelstrom787
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  • chris98251 wrote:3 OC's, one Super Bowl that was won by a defense that needed the offense not to lose it and kill time.

    All Three OC's left, the offense has never carried this team really, without outstanding defensive play we crumble without a pounding running game to eat time of possession and rely on hero ball. They took Hero ball away last season with a two deep look. We don't have a Incredible Hulk at RB, we have a good RB but not Lynch.

    What is the common denominator, Gibbs a passing OC, Bevell a Passing OC, Schotty know for a good Run guy but a good passing OC as well.

    I would say Pete does put his finger prints over how the offense functions, he wants the OC's to work in that frame work. When they want to deviate due to a DC figuring stuff out he is reluctant, if something fails or needs tweaking he reverts back to his comfort zone rather then countering. Why we looked so flat that past part of the season.


    Exactly. Thats why it doesnt matter who the OC is. Anybody thinking Waldron is going to make substantial changes to the offense are sadly mistaken.
    pittpnthrs
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Ah yes, Waldron. The next great hope. The new OC that has never been an OC before. The 4th OC in Petes 10 years. See a pattern there?


    Actually, that's a pretty long average OC tenure. Bates throws things off, being a one-season wonder.

    There are literally 2 off. coordinators in the NFL that were hired before 2018.

    2. That's it. 2. One, and then 2. 1 multiplied by 2. Half of 4.

    Either Pete holds on too long, or he cuts them too soon. Pick one or the other because I've seen you say both, and your BS is exhausting.


    Come on. Most OC's move on due to other job opportunities, not because they were fired. Every OC under Pete,,,,,fired.


    That has literally no effect on the Seahawks. None. End result is losing a coach. Schotty was getting head coach mentions in the media before his offense fell apart.

    Also, provide the data showing that more coordinators move up than down, please.


    Oh what team is Schotty the head coach of now? What exactly did head coaching mentions have to do with him being fired?

    OC's dont necessarily grab the elusive head coaching gigs, but they move to other teams for better contracts and so forth. Tell me how many teams have fired 3 of them in a 10 year period? I'm betting its a very small list.
    pittpnthrs
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  • Your problem is our DC is now the weak link.

    So the defense cannot win games for us anymore, it HAS to be the offense.

    That Carroll refuses to acknowledge this is the very root of our problem.

    We cannot have an offense that works like the other offenses we fielded and needed when we were winning.

    We need an offense that scores near every drive because our defense is going to give up points near every drive.

    Our defense is going to give up over 28 points a game so we have to score over 28.

    Dunlap helps but the DC is still a huge gaping weakness that will be near impossible to overcome. Normally Carroll might be able to shore it up but with him getting closer and closer to senility that isn't going to happen.
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    Actually, that's a pretty long average OC tenure. Bates throws things off, being a one-season wonder.

    There are literally 2 off. coordinators in the NFL that were hired before 2018.

    2. That's it. 2. One, and then 2. 1 multiplied by 2. Half of 4.

    Either Pete holds on too long, or he cuts them too soon. Pick one or the other because I've seen you say both, and your BS is exhausting.


    Come on. Most OC's move on due to other job opportunities, not because they were fired. Every OC under Pete,,,,,fired.


    That has literally no effect on the Seahawks. None. End result is losing a coach. Schotty was getting head coach mentions in the media before his offense fell apart.

    Also, provide the data showing that more coordinators move up than down, please.


    Oh what team is Schotty the head coach of now? What exactly did head coaching mentions have to do with him being fired?

    OC's dont necessarily grab the elusive head coaching gigs, but they move to other teams for better contracts and so forth. Tell me how many teams have fired 3 of them in a 10 year period? I'm betting its a very small list.


    No data. Got it.

    Judging by the fact that the average offensive coordinator has a tenure of about 1.1 years in their role, you're almost certainly off-track here. Should probably hold off on making claims you can't back up.
    Maelstrom787
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:3 OC's, one Super Bowl that was won by a defense that needed the offense not to lose it and kill time.

    All Three OC's left, the offense has never carried this team really, without outstanding defensive play we crumble without a pounding running game to eat time of possession and rely on hero ball. They took Hero ball away last season with a two deep look. We don't have a Incredible Hulk at RB, we have a good RB but not Lynch.

    What is the common denominator, Gibbs a passing OC, Bevell a Passing OC, Schotty know for a good Run guy but a good passing OC as well.

    I would say Pete does put his finger prints over how the offense functions, he wants the OC's to work in that frame work. When they want to deviate due to a DC figuring stuff out he is reluctant, if something fails or needs tweaking he reverts back to his comfort zone rather then countering. Why we looked so flat that past part of the season.


    Exactly. Thats why it doesnt matter who the OC is. Anybody thinking Waldron is going to make substantial changes to the offense are sadly mistaken.


    This is asinine, considering the extreme change we saw in 2020 towards a heavy pass split.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:3 OC's, one Super Bowl that was won by a defense that needed the offense not to lose it and kill time.

    All Three OC's left, the offense has never carried this team really, without outstanding defensive play we crumble without a pounding running game to eat time of possession and rely on hero ball. They took Hero ball away last season with a two deep look. We don't have a Incredible Hulk at RB, we have a good RB but not Lynch.

    What is the common denominator, Gibbs a passing OC, Bevell a Passing OC, Schotty know for a good Run guy but a good passing OC as well.

    I would say Pete does put his finger prints over how the offense functions, he wants the OC's to work in that frame work. When they want to deviate due to a DC figuring stuff out he is reluctant, if something fails or needs tweaking he reverts back to his comfort zone rather then countering. Why we looked so flat that past part of the season.


    Exactly. Thats why it doesnt matter who the OC is. Anybody thinking Waldron is going to make substantial changes to the offense are sadly mistaken.


    This is asinine, considering the extreme change we saw in 2020 towards a heavy pass split.


    If you're talking about pass/run ratio. I can agree with that. If you're talking about scheme, I cant jump on board with that. It was the same old predictable running game, snap the ball with 1 second on the clock, throw the home run ball all the time. Same thing every year.
    pittpnthrs
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Come on. Most OC's move on due to other job opportunities, not because they were fired. Every OC under Pete,,,,,fired.


    That has literally no effect on the Seahawks. None. End result is losing a coach. Schotty was getting head coach mentions in the media before his offense fell apart.

    Also, provide the data showing that more coordinators move up than down, please.


    Oh what team is Schotty the head coach of now? What exactly did head coaching mentions have to do with him being fired?

    OC's dont necessarily grab the elusive head coaching gigs, but they move to other teams for better contracts and so forth. Tell me how many teams have fired 3 of them in a 10 year period? I'm betting its a very small list.


    No data. Got it.

    Judging by the fact that the average offensive coordinator has a tenure of about 1.1 years in their role, you're almost certainly off-track here. Should probably hold off on making claims you can't back up.


    Everytime I look for information about OC's I get articles about minorities. I did find this one that states the average tenure of OC's is 2.29 years and states reasons as departure is both lack of success and moving on, so whatever. It doesnt point out which reason is more prevalent. I still feel its odd that Pete fired all of his OC's. Doesnt seem normal to me.

    https://www.the33rdteam.com/post/study- ... oordinator
    pittpnthrs
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    That has literally no effect on the Seahawks. None. End result is losing a coach. Schotty was getting head coach mentions in the media before his offense fell apart.

    Also, provide the data showing that more coordinators move up than down, please.


    Oh what team is Schotty the head coach of now? What exactly did head coaching mentions have to do with him being fired?

    OC's dont necessarily grab the elusive head coaching gigs, but they move to other teams for better contracts and so forth. Tell me how many teams have fired 3 of them in a 10 year period? I'm betting its a very small list.


    No data. Got it.

    Judging by the fact that the average offensive coordinator has a tenure of about 1.1 years in their role, you're almost certainly off-track here. Should probably hold off on making claims you can't back up.


    Everytime I look for information about OC's I get articles about minorities. I did find this one that states the average tenure of OC's is 2.29 years and states reasons as departure is both lack of success and moving on, so whatever. It doesnt point out which reason is more prevalent. I still feel its odd that Pete fired all of his OC's. Doesnt seem normal to me.

    https://www.the33rdteam.com/post/study- ... oordinator


    The 1.1 year figure was taken from an analysis at the beginning of the 2019 season. That season saw 16 new offensive coordinators, and 8 new head coaches.

    Jeremy Bates sucked on and off the field, cut him loose year 1.

    Bevell got sacked after the wheels fell off in 2017.

    Schottenheimer got sacked after a longer-than-average tenure last year because his pass-heavy offense led to an inordinate amount of turnovers and the implosion of the franchise quarterback, with no solution found.

    Either way, this isn't abnormal. In fact, OC in Seattle is more stable than anywhere else, for the most part. Do I think these guys have always been the best coaches? Nah, not at all. But it isn't a revolving door, and the job itself isn't a pit of misery for a capable coach.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Aren't OCs more often targeted for HC advancement than other coordinator coaches?
    Appyhawk
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  • Appyhawk wrote:Aren't OCs more often targeted for HC advancement than other coordinator coaches?


    Probably. That's a hell of a lot different than saying most of them get promoted to HC, though.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Oh what team is Schotty the head coach of now? What exactly did head coaching mentions have to do with him being fired?

    OC's dont necessarily grab the elusive head coaching gigs, but they move to other teams for better contracts and so forth. Tell me how many teams have fired 3 of them in a 10 year period? I'm betting its a very small list.


    No data. Got it.

    Judging by the fact that the average offensive coordinator has a tenure of about 1.1 years in their role, you're almost certainly off-track here. Should probably hold off on making claims you can't back up.


    Everytime I look for information about OC's I get articles about minorities. I did find this one that states the average tenure of OC's is 2.29 years and states reasons as departure is both lack of success and moving on, so whatever. It doesnt point out which reason is more prevalent. I still feel its odd that Pete fired all of his OC's. Doesnt seem normal to me.

    https://www.the33rdteam.com/post/study- ... oordinator


    The 1.1 year figure was taken from an analysis at the beginning of the 2019 season. That season saw 16 new offensive coordinators, and 8 new head coaches.

    Jeremy Bates sucked on and off the field, cut him loose year 1.

    Bevell got sacked after the wheels fell off in 2017.

    Schottenheimer got sacked after a longer-than-average tenure last year because his pass-heavy offense led to an inordinate amount of turnovers and the implosion of the franchise quarterback, with no solution found.

    Either way, this isn't abnormal. In fact, OC in Seattle is more stable than anywhere else, for the most part. Do I think these guys have always been the best coaches? Nah, not at all. But it isn't a revolving door, and the job itself isn't a pit of misery for a capable coach.


    Schotty just broke all type of offensive records for this franchise and is fired. Actually every year that Russ has put up career highs in stats, especially passing the OC has been let go. But one of the worst defensive coaching perfomances ever? Still here, not a word. There is no justification behind when Pete lets OC's go, and when they go too far away from his boring ass system they are shown the door. Probably to delay the situation we are in now of Russ wanting more influence.
    misfit
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  • misfit wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    No data. Got it.

    Judging by the fact that the average offensive coordinator has a tenure of about 1.1 years in their role, you're almost certainly off-track here. Should probably hold off on making claims you can't back up.


    Everytime I look for information about OC's I get articles about minorities. I did find this one that states the average tenure of OC's is 2.29 years and states reasons as departure is both lack of success and moving on, so whatever. It doesnt point out which reason is more prevalent. I still feel its odd that Pete fired all of his OC's. Doesnt seem normal to me.

    https://www.the33rdteam.com/post/study- ... oordinator


    The 1.1 year figure was taken from an analysis at the beginning of the 2019 season. That season saw 16 new offensive coordinators, and 8 new head coaches.

    Jeremy Bates sucked on and off the field, cut him loose year 1.

    Bevell got sacked after the wheels fell off in 2017.

    Schottenheimer got sacked after a longer-than-average tenure last year because his pass-heavy offense led to an inordinate amount of turnovers and the implosion of the franchise quarterback, with no solution found.

    Either way, this isn't abnormal. In fact, OC in Seattle is more stable than anywhere else, for the most part. Do I think these guys have always been the best coaches? Nah, not at all. But it isn't a revolving door, and the job itself isn't a pit of misery for a capable coach.


    Schotty just broke all type of offensive records for this franchise and is fired. Actually every year that Russ has put up career highs in stats, especially passing the OC has been let go. But one of the worst defensive coaching perfomances ever? Still here, not a word. There is no justification behind when Pete lets OC's go, and when they go too far away from his boring ass system they are shown the door. Probably to delay the situation we are in now of Russ wanting more influence.


    Are you seriously endorsing the offense we saw down the stretch last season? It completely fell apart and Russ looked broken.

    Bates was let go after 2010 because he kinda sucked and was an ass off the field, apparently.

    Bevell was let go after 2017 when the offense was anemic and one of the worst rushing teams of literally all time.

    Schotty was let go this year after his offense and quarterback imploded.

    If you're trying to argue that these guys are being fired for success, then it's clear you're arguing in bad faith. That's beyond nonsense.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    misfit wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Everytime I look for information about OC's I get articles about minorities. I did find this one that states the average tenure of OC's is 2.29 years and states reasons as departure is both lack of success and moving on, so whatever. It doesnt point out which reason is more prevalent. I still feel its odd that Pete fired all of his OC's. Doesnt seem normal to me.

    https://www.the33rdteam.com/post/study- ... oordinator


    The 1.1 year figure was taken from an analysis at the beginning of the 2019 season. That season saw 16 new offensive coordinators, and 8 new head coaches.

    Jeremy Bates sucked on and off the field, cut him loose year 1.

    Bevell got sacked after the wheels fell off in 2017.

    Schottenheimer got sacked after a longer-than-average tenure last year because his pass-heavy offense led to an inordinate amount of turnovers and the implosion of the franchise quarterback, with no solution found.

    Either way, this isn't abnormal. In fact, OC in Seattle is more stable than anywhere else, for the most part. Do I think these guys have always been the best coaches? Nah, not at all. But it isn't a revolving door, and the job itself isn't a pit of misery for a capable coach.


    Schotty just broke all type of offensive records for this franchise and is fired. Actually every year that Russ has put up career highs in stats, especially passing the OC has been let go. But one of the worst defensive coaching perfomances ever? Still here, not a word. There is no justification behind when Pete lets OC's go, and when they go too far away from his boring ass system they are shown the door. Probably to delay the situation we are in now of Russ wanting more influence.


    Are you seriously endorsing the offense we saw down the stretch last season? It completely fell apart and Russ looked broken.

    Bates was let go after 2010 because he kinda sucked and was an ass off the field, apparently.

    Bevell was let go after 2017 when the offense was anemic and one of the worst rushing teams of literally all time.

    Schotty was let go this year after his offense and quarterback imploded.

    If you're trying to argue that these guys are being fired for success, then it's clear you're arguing in bad faith. That's beyond nonsense.

    Im not saing the offense was acceptable, but if a coordinator should be let go, it should be Norton. The problem on offense I would put on way other issues than an OC. Russ was off, Pete meddled, some was scheme, there is a lot of issues. I think the firing was definitely a surprise.

    I dont think its a coincidence that the OC gets fired every year Russ has a career year. We can have a trash year offensively and as long as were "pounding the rock" everything is just fine
    misfit
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  • Wonder when Waldron will get the axe? 23',,,,24'?

    5 more years guys, just 5 more years.
    pittpnthrs
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  • Appyhawk wrote:Aren't OCs more often targeted for HC advancement than other coordinator coaches?


    It's cyclic, it seems to trend in waves by what's dominating the game.
    chris98251
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  • misfit wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    misfit wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    The 1.1 year figure was taken from an analysis at the beginning of the 2019 season. That season saw 16 new offensive coordinators, and 8 new head coaches.

    Jeremy Bates sucked on and off the field, cut him loose year 1.

    Bevell got sacked after the wheels fell off in 2017.

    Schottenheimer got sacked after a longer-than-average tenure last year because his pass-heavy offense led to an inordinate amount of turnovers and the implosion of the franchise quarterback, with no solution found.

    Either way, this isn't abnormal. In fact, OC in Seattle is more stable than anywhere else, for the most part. Do I think these guys have always been the best coaches? Nah, not at all. But it isn't a revolving door, and the job itself isn't a pit of misery for a capable coach.


    Schotty just broke all type of offensive records for this franchise and is fired. Actually every year that Russ has put up career highs in stats, especially passing the OC has been let go. But one of the worst defensive coaching perfomances ever? Still here, not a word. There is no justification behind when Pete lets OC's go, and when they go too far away from his boring ass system they are shown the door. Probably to delay the situation we are in now of Russ wanting more influence.


    Are you seriously endorsing the offense we saw down the stretch last season? It completely fell apart and Russ looked broken.

    Bates was let go after 2010 because he kinda sucked and was an ass off the field, apparently.

    Bevell was let go after 2017 when the offense was anemic and one of the worst rushing teams of literally all time.

    Schotty was let go this year after his offense and quarterback imploded.

    If you're trying to argue that these guys are being fired for success, then it's clear you're arguing in bad faith. That's beyond nonsense.

    Im not saing the offense was acceptable, but if a coordinator should be let go, it should be Norton. The problem on offense I would put on way other issues than an OC. Russ was off, Pete meddled, some was scheme, there is a lot of issues. I think the firing was definitely a surprise.

    I dont think its a coincidence that the OC gets fired every year Russ has a career year. We can have a trash year offensively and as long as were "pounding the rock" everything is just fine


    2017 wasn't a career year for Russell, and 2020 looked good overall on paper but saw him sink to his lowest professional lows in the second half of the year.

    Again, the whole "Pete fires OC's when they're successful" argument is beyond bogus.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    misfit wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    misfit wrote:
    Schotty just broke all type of offensive records for this franchise and is fired. Actually every year that Russ has put up career highs in stats, especially passing the OC has been let go. But one of the worst defensive coaching perfomances ever? Still here, not a word. There is no justification behind when Pete lets OC's go, and when they go too far away from his boring ass system they are shown the door. Probably to delay the situation we are in now of Russ wanting more influence.


    Are you seriously endorsing the offense we saw down the stretch last season? It completely fell apart and Russ looked broken.

    Bates was let go after 2010 because he kinda sucked and was an ass off the field, apparently.

    Bevell was let go after 2017 when the offense was anemic and one of the worst rushing teams of literally all time.

    Schotty was let go this year after his offense and quarterback imploded.

    If you're trying to argue that these guys are being fired for success, then it's clear you're arguing in bad faith. That's beyond nonsense.

    Im not saing the offense was acceptable, but if a coordinator should be let go, it should be Norton. The problem on offense I would put on way other issues than an OC. Russ was off, Pete meddled, some was scheme, there is a lot of issues. I think the firing was definitely a surprise.

    I dont think its a coincidence that the OC gets fired every year Russ has a career year. We can have a trash year offensively and as long as were "pounding the rock" everything is just fine


    2017 wasn't a career year for Russell, and 2020 looked good overall on paper but saw him sink to his lowest professional lows in the second half of the year.

    Again, the whole "Pete fires OC's when they're successful" argument is beyond bogus.

    He tied a high in passing tds
    misfit
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  • misfit wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    misfit wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    Are you seriously endorsing the offense we saw down the stretch last season? It completely fell apart and Russ looked broken.

    Bates was let go after 2010 because he kinda sucked and was an ass off the field, apparently.

    Bevell was let go after 2017 when the offense was anemic and one of the worst rushing teams of literally all time.

    Schotty was let go this year after his offense and quarterback imploded.

    If you're trying to argue that these guys are being fired for success, then it's clear you're arguing in bad faith. That's beyond nonsense.

    Im not saing the offense was acceptable, but if a coordinator should be let go, it should be Norton. The problem on offense I would put on way other issues than an OC. Russ was off, Pete meddled, some was scheme, there is a lot of issues. I think the firing was definitely a surprise.

    I dont think its a coincidence that the OC gets fired every year Russ has a career year. We can have a trash year offensively and as long as were "pounding the rock" everything is just fine


    2017 wasn't a career year for Russell, and 2020 looked good overall on paper but saw him sink to his lowest professional lows in the second half of the year.

    Again, the whole "Pete fires OC's when they're successful" argument is beyond bogus.

    He tied a high in passing tds


    So now we're cherry picking single statistics, hmm? You think that helps your argument?

    Lowest yards per attempt, adjusted yards per attempt, tied for most interceptions to that point, and one of his lowest passer ratings. Indisputably one of his worst years due to a horrible supporting cast. Led team to what has been its worst record since 2012, and remains so.

    If that's your idea of success, then you'd really like the Bears or some other hilarious fringe team.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    misfit wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    misfit wrote:Im not saing the offense was acceptable, but if a coordinator should be let go, it should be Norton. The problem on offense I would put on way other issues than an OC. Russ was off, Pete meddled, some was scheme, there is a lot of issues. I think the firing was definitely a surprise.

    I dont think its a coincidence that the OC gets fired every year Russ has a career year. We can have a trash year offensively and as long as were "pounding the rock" everything is just fine


    2017 wasn't a career year for Russell, and 2020 looked good overall on paper but saw him sink to his lowest professional lows in the second half of the year.

    Again, the whole "Pete fires OC's when they're successful" argument is beyond bogus.

    He tied a high in passing tds


    So now we're cherry picking single statistics, hmm? You think that helps your argument?

    Lowest yards per attempt, adjusted yards per attempt, tied for most interceptions to that point, and one of his lowest passer ratings. Indisputably one of his worst years due to a horrible supporting cast. Led team to what has been its worst record since 2012, and remains so.

    If that's your idea of success, then you'd really like the Bears or some other hilarious fringe team.


    Russell had a QB rating of 105.1 which was his highest rating except for 3 seasons where he was higher. As matter of fact his rating was higher than years 2012-2014, 2016-2017.
    https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14881/russell-wilson
    hawkfan68
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  • hawkfan68 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    misfit wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    2017 wasn't a career year for Russell, and 2020 looked good overall on paper but saw him sink to his lowest professional lows in the second half of the year.

    Again, the whole "Pete fires OC's when they're successful" argument is beyond bogus.

    He tied a high in passing tds


    So now we're cherry picking single statistics, hmm? You think that helps your argument?

    Lowest yards per attempt, adjusted yards per attempt, tied for most interceptions to that point, and one of his lowest passer ratings. Indisputably one of his worst years due to a horrible supporting cast. Led team to what has been its worst record since 2012, and remains so.

    If that's your idea of success, then you'd really like the Bears or some other hilarious fringe team.


    Russell had a QB rating of 105.1 which was his highest rating except for 3 seasons where he was higher. As matter of fact his rating was higher than years 2012-2014, 2016-2017.
    https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14881/russell-wilson


    I was referring to 2017, as was Misfit, as 2017 saw him throw 34 touchdowns which was tied for his most in a season until he threw 35 in 2018... when Brian Schottenheimer was retained, further proving my point.
    Maelstrom787
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  • hawkfan68 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    misfit wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    2017 wasn't a career year for Russell, and 2020 looked good overall on paper but saw him sink to his lowest professional lows in the second half of the year.

    Again, the whole "Pete fires OC's when they're successful" argument is beyond bogus.

    He tied a high in passing tds


    So now we're cherry picking single statistics, hmm? You think that helps your argument?

    Lowest yards per attempt, adjusted yards per attempt, tied for most interceptions to that point, and one of his lowest passer ratings. Indisputably one of his worst years due to a horrible supporting cast. Led team to what has been its worst record since 2012, and remains so.

    If that's your idea of success, then you'd really like the Bears or some other hilarious fringe team.


    Russell had a QB rating of 105.1 which was his highest rating except for 3 seasons where he was higher. As matter of fact his rating was higher than years 2012-2014, 2016-2017.
    https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14881/russell-wilson

    I don't think there is a rhyme or reason to Pete firing ocs he just does it to scapegoat the offense and keep heat off himself. He will never ever ever fire a dc no matter what happens
    misfit
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  • misfit wrote:
    hawkfan68 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    misfit wrote:He tied a high in passing tds


    So now we're cherry picking single statistics, hmm? You think that helps your argument?

    Lowest yards per attempt, adjusted yards per attempt, tied for most interceptions to that point, and one of his lowest passer ratings. Indisputably one of his worst years due to a horrible supporting cast. Led team to what has been its worst record since 2012, and remains so.

    If that's your idea of success, then you'd really like the Bears or some other hilarious fringe team.


    Russell had a QB rating of 105.1 which was his highest rating except for 3 seasons where he was higher. As matter of fact his rating was higher than years 2012-2014, 2016-2017.
    https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14881/russell-wilson

    I don't think there is a rhyme or reason to Pete firing ocs he just does it to scapegoat the offense and keep heat off himself. He will never ever ever fire a dc no matter what happens


    He fires them when the wheels fall off. 2017 was pure hell all season, and 2020 fell apart in spectacular fashion despite finishing with a great record.

    I just can't understand why the OC firing is actually getting criticism. It's a GOOD thing, and something we have all asked for. Schotty wasn't workin' out, and Pete hired a Russ-approved guy from a contemporary scheme. This is good!
    Maelstrom787
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  • misfit wrote:
    hawkfan68 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    misfit wrote:He tied a high in passing tds


    So now we're cherry picking single statistics, hmm? You think that helps your argument?

    Lowest yards per attempt, adjusted yards per attempt, tied for most interceptions to that point, and one of his lowest passer ratings. Indisputably one of his worst years due to a horrible supporting cast. Led team to what has been its worst record since 2012, and remains so.

    If that's your idea of success, then you'd really like the Bears or some other hilarious fringe team.


    Russell had a QB rating of 105.1 which was his highest rating except for 3 seasons where he was higher. As matter of fact his rating was higher than years 2012-2014, 2016-2017.
    https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14881/russell-wilson

    I don't think there is a rhyme or reason to Pete firing ocs he just does it to scapegoat the offense and keep heat off himself. He will never ever ever fire a dc no matter what happens


    Because we all know why....Pete is really the DC in Seattle. Ken Norton takes the blame but it's Pete's defense, always has been. Pete isn't going to fire himself.
    hawkfan68
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  • hawkfan68 wrote:
    misfit wrote:
    hawkfan68 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    So now we're cherry picking single statistics, hmm? You think that helps your argument?

    Lowest yards per attempt, adjusted yards per attempt, tied for most interceptions to that point, and one of his lowest passer ratings. Indisputably one of his worst years due to a horrible supporting cast. Led team to what has been its worst record since 2012, and remains so.

    If that's your idea of success, then you'd really like the Bears or some other hilarious fringe team.


    Russell had a QB rating of 105.1 which was his highest rating except for 3 seasons where he was higher. As matter of fact his rating was higher than years 2012-2014, 2016-2017.
    https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14881/russell-wilson

    I don't think there is a rhyme or reason to Pete firing ocs he just does it to scapegoat the offense and keep heat off himself. He will never ever ever fire a dc no matter what happens


    Because we all know why....Pete is really the DC in Seattle. Ken Norton takes the blame but it's Pete's defense, always has been. Pete isn't going to fire himself.

    I agree w/ this, the ironic thing is that its Pete's offense as well. We'll see if it changes w/ Waldren. Schotty wasnt even allowed to bring his own playbook here originally. Im not a huge schotty fan, I just know that these OCs arent getting a fair shake when they come here
    misfit
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  • If Pete is the DC, that is a problem, because he sucks at it now.

    I am hoping this is just Norton being below par. But it could be that Pete is just old and nowhere near the sharp defensive mind he used to be.

    Let's hope the problem is Norton because at least Pete can fire Norton.

    Not that it matters much because Pete struggles to hire effective coordinators, always has.
    TwistedHusky
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  • misfit wrote: I just know that these OCs arent getting a fair shake when they come here


    And thats easy to see. Waldron wont get a fair shake either. People expecting him to make huge changes are going to disappointed.
    pittpnthrs
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  • Waldron will do what he is told. There will not be big changes, PC has no accountability now because we have disinterested ownership. I buy into the 5-year extension being nothing more than JA not wanting to deal and letting PC makes decisions.

    We have seen the same old unimaginative offense for years now. PC is not changing.
    NJlargent
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  • NJlargent wrote:Waldron will do what he is told. There will not be big changes, PC has no accountability now because we have disinterested ownership. I buy into the 5-year extension being nothing more than JA not wanting to deal and letting PC makes decisions.

    We have seen the same old unimaginative offense for years now. PC is not changing.


    If you think 2020 was the same offense, then you weren't watching the 2020 Seahawks.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    NJlargent wrote:Waldron will do what he is told. There will not be big changes, PC has no accountability now because we have disinterested ownership. I buy into the 5-year extension being nothing more than JA not wanting to deal and letting PC makes decisions.

    We have seen the same old unimaginative offense for years now. PC is not changing.


    If you think 2020 was the same offense, then you weren't watching the 2020 Seahawks.



    Ahh yeah what we saw was attempt for a little bit of imagination, and at the first site of trouble we went back to same old. So there is a HUGE difference between an imaginative offense and what we had at any time last year. Even, when were humming it was not as imaginative as you think. Most of what we did was run and throw long. We just added a few wrinkles to make it easier for our long patterns to get open. If you rewatch the games which I do alot and compare to last year you will not see much difference other than, less waiting til 5 or less to snap, and our long routes having a little wiggle in them that's all. We surprised teams because no one thought PC would let that happen or keep it up for long and guess what they were right. When they had a hiccup what did PC do, he went back to same old same old, rather than adapting. Have has been said make no mistake this is PC offensive scheme and his defensive scheme. So unless he has a huge awakening this will be WIlsons last year in a hawks uniform and our last year being relevant till PC leaves.
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    NJlargent wrote:Waldron will do what he is told. There will not be big changes, PC has no accountability now because we have disinterested ownership. I buy into the 5-year extension being nothing more than JA not wanting to deal and letting PC makes decisions.

    We have seen the same old unimaginative offense for years now. PC is not changing.


    If you think 2020 was the same offense, then you weren't watching the 2020 Seahawks.



    Ahh yeah what we saw was attempt for a little bit of imagination, and at the first site of trouble we went back to same old. So there is a HUGE difference between an imaginative offense and what we had at any time last year. Even, when were humming it was not as imaginative as you think. Most of what we did was run and throw long. We just added a few wrinkles to make it easier for our long patterns to get open. If you rewatch the games which I do alot and compare to last year you will not see much difference other than, less waiting til 5 or less to snap, and our long routes having a little wiggle in them that's all. We surprised teams because no one thought PC would let that happen or keep it up for long and guess what they were right. When they had a hiccup what did PC do, he went back to same old same old, rather than adapting. Have has been said make no mistake this is PC offensive scheme and his defensive scheme. So unless he has a huge awakening this will be WIlsons last year in a hawks uniform and our last year being relevant till PC leaves.


    I care extremely little about everything you've said here. None of it refutes the fact that the offense last year was in no way the "same old."
    Maelstrom787
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    NJlargent wrote:Waldron will do what he is told. There will not be big changes, PC has no accountability now because we have disinterested ownership. I buy into the 5-year extension being nothing more than JA not wanting to deal and letting PC makes decisions.

    We have seen the same old unimaginative offense for years now. PC is not changing.


    If you think 2020 was the same offense, then you weren't watching the 2020 Seahawks.



    Ahh yeah what we saw was attempt for a little bit of imagination, and at the first site of trouble we went back to same old. So there is a HUGE difference between an imaginative offense and what we had at any time last year. Even, when were humming it was not as imaginative as you think. Most of what we did was run and throw long. We just added a few wrinkles to make it easier for our long patterns to get open. If you rewatch the games which I do alot and compare to last year you will not see much difference other than, less waiting til 5 or less to snap, and our long routes having a little wiggle in them that's all. We surprised teams because no one thought PC would let that happen or keep it up for long and guess what they were right. When they had a hiccup what did PC do, he went back to same old same old, rather than adapting. Have has been said make no mistake this is PC offensive scheme and his defensive scheme. So unless he has a huge awakening this will be WIlsons last year in a hawks uniform and our last year being relevant till PC leaves.


    I care extremely little about everything you've said here. None of it refutes the fact that the offense last year was in no way the "same old."



    well then all I can say is reading its fundemental.!! and foe you go
    John63
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:I care extremely little about everything you've said here. None of it refutes the fact that the offense last year was in no way the "same old."


    Why do you feel it was so astoundingly different? It resorted back to typical Pete Ball in the 2nd half. It was the "same old".
    pittpnthrs
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:I care extremely little about everything you've said here. None of it refutes the fact that the offense last year was in no way the "same old."


    Why do you feel it was so astoundingly different? It resorted back to typical Pete Ball in the 2nd half and Schotty was the fall guy.


    Simple it can't be because it restored back to Pete ball that's does not fit his narrative that it is all Wilson's fault.
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:well then all I can say is reading its fundemental.!! and foe you go


    Ah, Maelstrom, you lucky guy; making John's foe list!

    If only everyone could be so lucky...
    Ad Hawk
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  • Ad Hawk wrote:
    John63 wrote:well then all I can say is reading its fundemental.!! and foe you go


    Ah, Maelstrom, you lucky guy; making John's foe list!

    If only everyone could be so lucky...



    Youcan always add me to yours. trust me I dont mind one bit.
    John63
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    misfit wrote: I just know that these OCs arent getting a fair shake when they come here


    And thats easy to see. Waldron wont get a fair shake either. People expecting him to make huge changes are going to disappointed.


    I expect 2021 may be a lot like 2020. He will come in with a new look offense that surprises a lot of teams. At some point Russ will have a bad game or two and have some turnovers or the offense will sputter. At that point, PC will interject himself and force PeteBall upon this team.

    When its all said and done, I expect half the fanbase to say that Pete had no other choice and saved us from Russ and impending disaster. Sometimes you have to put trust in your coordinators and let things work themselves out. What theyve been doing only gets them so far.
    misfit
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  • John63 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:I care extremely little about everything you've said here. None of it refutes the fact that the offense last year was in no way the "same old."


    Why do you feel it was so astoundingly different? It resorted back to typical Pete Ball in the 2nd half and Schotty was the fall guy.


    Simple it can't be because it restored back to Pete ball that's does not fit his narrative that it is all Wilson's fault.


    That isn't, nor has it ever been, anywhere close to my narrative. You'd know that if you had actually read the posts you respond to.
    Last edited by Maelstrom787 on Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:I care extremely little about everything you've said here. None of it refutes the fact that the offense last year was in no way the "same old."


    Why do you feel it was so astoundingly different? It resorted back to typical Pete Ball in the 2nd half and Schotty was the fall guy.


    Simple it can't be because it restored back to Pete ball that's does not fit his narrative that it is all Wilson's fault.


    That isn't, nor has it ever been, anywhere close to my narrative. You'd know that if you has actually read the posts you respond do.


    Don't bother with them. It's just not worth it. Someone here made that ABUNDANTLY clear.
    Maulbert
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:I care extremely little about everything you've said here. None of it refutes the fact that the offense last year was in no way the "same old."


    Why do you feel it was so astoundingly different? It resorted back to typical Pete Ball in the 2nd half. It was the "same old".


    No, it wasn't. That's a narrative built on very incorrect eye tests, judged by eyes spoiled by the first half of the season. Offense was still pretty aggressively pass-heavy, 7th in the league in neutral situations IIRC.

    If the offense was the same old, y'all should be happy with Pete changing coordinators. Although you'd also probably try to argue there was no change between 2017 and 2018 when Schotty took the job, which would be hilarious.
    Maelstrom787
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  • John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    If you think 2020 was the same offense, then you weren't watching the 2020 Seahawks.



    Ahh yeah what we saw was attempt for a little bit of imagination, and at the first site of trouble we went back to same old. So there is a HUGE difference between an imaginative offense and what we had at any time last year. Even, when were humming it was not as imaginative as you think. Most of what we did was run and throw long. We just added a few wrinkles to make it easier for our long patterns to get open. If you rewatch the games which I do alot and compare to last year you will not see much difference other than, less waiting til 5 or less to snap, and our long routes having a little wiggle in them that's all. We surprised teams because no one thought PC would let that happen or keep it up for long and guess what they were right. When they had a hiccup what did PC do, he went back to same old same old, rather than adapting. Have has been said make no mistake this is PC offensive scheme and his defensive scheme. So unless he has a huge awakening this will be WIlsons last year in a hawks uniform and our last year being relevant till PC leaves.


    I care extremely little about everything you've said here. None of it refutes the fact that the offense last year was in no way the "same old."



    well then all I can say is reading its fundemental.!! and foe you go


    I read it. I just don't care about it.

    You're presumably old enough to both know how to spell and use paragraphs, yet you continue to rebel against posts that are even moderately easy to read.

    Not sure why you're bent out of shape. You don't even care enough about the post to make it easy to read, why should I? I shouldn't have to play a game of friggin' Pitfall to navigate your treacherous word jungle, with my reward at the end being the loss of 1-2 IQ points.

    Besides the horrific composition of the word casserole you baked up for us, the actual content doesn't come close to refuting my original point to begin with.

    To anyone new/any lurkers reading, this is an example of how NOT to post. Use paragraphs. Use spellcheck, it's built in anyway, you have to go out of your way NOT to use it. Don't put "Ahh" at the beginning of every post like a pretentious museum guide. Let's take this site back, yeah?
    Maelstrom787
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  • Maelstrom,

    Instead of being a giant DB, you might want to explore why John has trouble posting perfectly. Just a thought.

    And instead of harping on the spelling and details, maybe just dig a bit and look at why he is consistently more right than you are.

    BTW We are veering off topic since the point of the thread was that Dunlap saying Wilson is staying made him come back. Likely outcome, no.

    John has already communicated that he would sometimes have trouble posting perfectly, and he communicated why.

    Him having a misspelled word or misplaced phrase does not get you any closer to being even close to correct.

    Maybe focus on that?
    TwistedHusky
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Maelstrom,

    Instead of being a giant DB, you might want to explore why John has trouble posting perfectly. Just a thought.

    And instead of harping on the spelling and details, maybe just dig a bit and look at why he is consistently more right than you are.

    BTW We are veering off topic since the point of the thread was that Dunlap saying Wilson is staying made him come back. Likely outcome, no.

    John has already communicated that he would sometimes have trouble posting perfectly, and he communicated why.

    Him having a misspelled word or misplaced phrase does not get you any closer to being even close to correct.

    Maybe focus on that?


    Oh, sorry, did I offend? :(

    I'm not surprised that you would assess John as consistently "more right" based on just about nothing. Feel free to expand on that one if you'd like. Nonetheless, he came at my reading comprehension, so I came at his meandering, typical disappointment of a post. Seems like fair game to me.

    And, please, save the insults sweetie. I'm sticking to content of his posts, maybe you should too. :)
    Maelstrom787
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  • Dang man, you take this way too seriously. Have a Snickers bar. It's a message board, not life.
    SoulfishHawk
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Dang man, you take this way too seriously. Have a Snickers bar. It's a message board, not life.


    I figure you can empathize, seeing as you're clearly bothered by the constant barrage of strawmen and false accusations hurled your way for having any opinion on this site (especially if your opinion is actually backed up by solid information).

    It gets a little old not even being able to speak about statistical fact without being accused of having an overarching agenda which couldn't be further from my actual thoughts on the matter, and John is the biggest offender on thread after thread. He has the same, persistent MO in the classic "say wrong thing, get called out on it, write meandering wall of text with false accusation, say something about 'foe u go!!" and it's basically every thread.

    You can say I take it way too seriously, but I really don't feel strongly about it. This all stemmed from me saying I DON'T care. The replies to my comments are just as serious, if not more.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Fair enough
    SoulfishHawk
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