Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Off season talk - Adams & Diggs

The Original Seattle Seahawks Fan Forum Community. There simply is NO substitute for Seahawks Talk, News, Rumors, Trades, and Analytics. LANGUAGE: PG-13
Off season talk - Adams & Diggs
Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:12 am
  • Thoughts on our safeties? Both were pro bowlers in '20 but stats wise, Diggs rates 19th amongst free safeties and Adams at 22nd of the strong safeties. As a pair, they rank 22nd of the 32 teams

    https://12thmanrising.com/2021/04/16/se ... reat-2021/





    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk
    toffee
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2856
    Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:44 pm


Re: Off season talk - Adams & Diggs
Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:00 am

Re: Off season talk - Adams & Diggs
Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:13 am
  • I'd include Blair is this thread as well since Adams and Diggs are up in 2022 and we really have 3 starter-quality safeties. It would make sense to trade one of them this season, although I know the Seahawks were toying with 4-2-5 defense concepts a couple years ago and had to abandon it due to injuries. Brooks, Wagner, and our three safeties really fit that scheme -- especially since Adams likes to play up so much. It might also explain why there's been crickets on KJ.

    I'm not sold on Adams, because we didn't really use him in a traditional role last year. But that's one of the hallmark's of Pete's defenses, they always have something odd about them that makes offenses have to account for our variant, e.g. 320# DE Red Bryant, the 'Leo', and now Adams.

    Our secondary was a mess at the beginning of last year and the pass rush didn't make their job any easier. I'm anticipating a much stronger start with the continuity in the secondary and improved DL depth. Adams' coverage and other measures may dramatically improve too if we're coming from a place of understanding and scheme, rather than confusion and heroics this year. It should be fun to watch.
    Own The West
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 553
    Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:20 pm


Re: Off season talk - Adams & Diggs
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:56 pm
  • I have yet to see statistics for safeties or cornerbacks that are meaningful and interesting because offenses get to decide where the ball goes. There are very well regarded safeties at the bottom of stats like yards/target because they are given a much wider angle of the field to protect, the QB may only throw it when the receiver looks particularly open, and it's never made clear to the people marking the stats down what the actual responsibilities on the field are.

    Even Belichick is hesitant to evaluate secondary players from other teams based on game film he is watching without knowing the details of their assignments.

    Belichick wrote:You see a play on film and a receiver goes uncovered down the field. So you know it’s probably one of two guys’ mistakes, so you don’t know which guy it is. A lot of times the announcer will say, ‘[This guy] should’ve taken him,’ or, ‘[That guy] should have taken him.’ And I’m looking at the play saying, it could have been either guy, depending on what the call was.... In terms of analytics, you get a lot of, ‘This guy should have him. That guy should have him.’ I know from our team, there are times when we don’t know exactly what went wrong until we sort out the play... So it’s impossible someone else could have known. Sometimes what it looks like is not what it is.
    AgentDib
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4507
    Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:08 pm
    Location: Seattle


Re: Off season talk - Adams & Diggs
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:20 pm
  • I'll admit, I don't know much about the difference in roles with the 2 outside LB positions. So maybe someone can chime in and give their opinion on why they can't use Adams at one of those spots. I know he'd be a little light comparatively, but he seems to play up near the LOS most of the time. Plus, when he blitzes it would mean there's another safety on the field so it wouldn't weaken the coverage as much. Maybe the 4-2-5 would work well using him as a pseudo LB.
    Don't be too harsh on me.
    cheese22
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 365
    Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:25 pm
    Location: Oregon


Re: Off season talk - Adams & Diggs
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:36 pm
  • I'd extend both these guys.

    We know Carroll's defense is predicated on great safety play, well you have two very good to great safeties. Lock em up so you can concentrate your draft and future free agency needs elsewhere.
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 18789
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:10 am


Re: Off season talk - Adams & Diggs
Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:25 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:I'd extend both these guys.

    We know Carroll's defense is predicated on great safety play, well you have two very good to great safeties. Lock em up so you can concentrate your draft and future free agency needs elsewhere.


    Honest question - would you be happy paying Adams $18 million per year?
    iigakusei
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1796
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 7:14 am


Re: Off season talk - Adams & Diggs
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:26 am
  • Weird how no matter how good or great your players are, if the DC is below par, the results will be too.

    The problem is not our safeties.

    Replacing our safeties with significantly worse versions will only make the problem worse.

    We actually saw this, you don't remember what TT looked like playing safety?

    As Largent pointed out, Carroll depends on great safety play with his defenses. We have to have that. It isn't a luxury, or even a nice to have, it is a need.
    Last edited by TwistedHusky on Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    TwistedHusky
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4951
    Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:48 pm


Re: Off season talk - Adams & Diggs
Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:36 am
  • iigakusei wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:I'd extend both these guys.

    We know Carroll's defense is predicated on great safety play, well you have two very good to great safeties. Lock em up so you can concentrate your draft and future free agency needs elsewhere.


    Honest question - would you be happy paying Adams $18 million per year?


    Baker just signed a contract last year for 14.75M a year as the highest paid safety, so no I wouldn't pay Adams 18M. That's too big of a jump.

    But I'd be happy with 15-16M. If he's looking for 18M?, then he's in for a couple years of being franchised, I can't see John and Pete overpaying and setting the new safety market at 18M.......especially for a player that just had two surgeries in the off season.

    I get that Adams thinks he's special because of all the sacks, and I would take that into consideration, but 18M special? No.
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 18789
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:10 am


Re: Off season talk - Adams & Diggs
Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:51 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:I'd extend both these guys.

    We know Carroll's defense is predicated on great safety play, well you have two very good to great safeties. Lock em up so you can concentrate your draft and future free agency needs elsewhere.


    Honest question - would you be happy paying Adams $18 million per year?


    Baker just signed a contract last year for 14.75M a year as the highest paid safety, so no I wouldn't pay Adams 18M. That's too big of a jump.

    But I'd be happy with 15-16M. If he's looking for 18M?, then he's in for a couple years of being franchised, I can't see John and Pete overpaying and setting the new safety market at 18M.......especially for a player that just had two surgeries in the off season.

    I get that Adams thinks he's special because of all the sacks, and I would take that into consideration, but 18M special? No.

    Here is an interesting thought....if the pass rush is there without the need for Adams to join in, is Adams capable of patrolling the deep zones, crossers, and seams without giving up a huge completion?

    I have yet to believe Adams is a great cover safety. The footage just isn’t there. He is a good tackler but if he gets assignments primarily to cover tight ends on receivers that enter his coverage zones, can he be exposed?

    Carroll, hates two things: Russ throwing the ball a lot, and the defense giving up the big play.

    If Adams isn’t a great coverage safety, by my eyes, he hasn’t shown to be, he shouldn’t be the highest paid safety even if he does provide sack help.

    Reasonable for Adams is 12-14M (on par with Baker) who is a better coverage safety (and probably noticeably better) and decent in assisting the pass rush btw...

    Adams right now isn’t the ball hawk Pete Carroll needs, his sacks are nice but if Seattle defensive line pass rush woes are fixed, Adams premier attribute (pass rush) won’t necessarily be needed anyways.

    His abilities to cover one-on-one/zones will be more in demand.
    TheLegendOfBoom
    Silver Supporter
    Silver Supporter
     
    Posts: 1897
    Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:12 pm
    Location: Westcoastin’


Re: Off season talk - Adams & Diggs
Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:02 am
  • TheLegendOfBoom wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    iigakusei wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:I'd extend both these guys.

    We know Carroll's defense is predicated on great safety play, well you have two very good to great safeties. Lock em up so you can concentrate your draft and future free agency needs elsewhere.


    Honest question - would you be happy paying Adams $18 million per year?


    Baker just signed a contract last year for 14.75M a year as the highest paid safety, so no I wouldn't pay Adams 18M. That's too big of a jump.

    But I'd be happy with 15-16M. If he's looking for 18M?, then he's in for a couple years of being franchised, I can't see John and Pete overpaying and setting the new safety market at 18M.......especially for a player that just had two surgeries in the off season.

    I get that Adams thinks he's special because of all the sacks, and I would take that into consideration, but 18M special? No.

    Here is an interesting thought....if the pass rush is there without the need for Adams to join in, is Adams capable of patrolling the deep zones, crossers, and seams without giving up a huge completion?

    I have yet to believe Adams is a great cover safety. The footage just isn’t there. He is a good tackler but if he gets assignments primarily to cover tight ends on receivers that enter his coverage zones, can he be exposed?

    Carroll, hates two things: Russ throwing the ball a lot, and the defense giving up the big play.

    If Adams isn’t a great coverage safety, by my eyes, he hasn’t shown to be, he shouldn’t be the highest paid safety even if he does provide sack help.

    Reasonable for Adams is 12-14M (on par with Baker) who is a better coverage safety (and probably noticeably better) and decent in assisting the pass rush btw...

    Adams right now isn’t the ball hawk Pete Carroll needs, his sacks are nice but if Seattle defensive line pass rush woes are fixed, Adams premier attribute (pass rush) won’t necessarily be needed anyways.

    His abilities to cover one-on-one/zones will be more in demand.


    1. You can never have enough sacks.

    2. You don't neuter Adams with what he does best, which IS be a disruptor within that 5 yards from the line of scrimmage.

    So if you're plan is to offer him less because you don't think you want him to do what he does best and want him to play more in space and coverage which he is average at? Then why'd you give up two first rounders for him?

    Make him the highest paid safety in the league at 15-16M, and if he wants more? Nope, it's the franchise tag for you and we'll see if you can stay healthy over the next 1-2 years.

    Because that's really the part of all this that scares me, committing 40-50M of guaranteed money to a guy who plays as recklessly as Adams plays and is already showing signs of his body breaking down.

    Reminds me of what we went through with Kam, what makes these guys the best in the league is also a recipe for a short career due to injuries.
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 18789
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:10 am


Re: Off season talk - Adams & Diggs
Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:05 am
  • You can't base his play on last year and what he can do going forward, he had two arms he could hardly raise and two hands with broken fingers yet still did what he did.

    Try to catch balls and knock down passes when you can't get your arms over your head without severe pain. The fact he was still trying to tackle is a testimony to his toughness.

    Want to see what he can do healthy in this defense.
    chris98251
    .NET Hijacker
     
    Posts: 35610
    Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:52 pm
    Location: Renton Wa.


Re: Off season talk - Adams & Diggs
Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:06 am
  • Adams is a box safety. That is how he should be used.

    He should only be covering:

    TE
    RB

    I like using him as another LB or DE occasionally to create pressure.

    But nobody should care if he can cover WR because we shouldn't be using him that way.

    And those hits on WRs across the middle are now flags, so using him like we used Kam may not even be an option.


    I know it is a very Carroll thing to force a player to be used in a way that is not consistent with his weaknesses or strengths. But we should hope to resist that because Adams is a very good box safety, if not a great one. Because pressure on the QB is ALWAYS valuable. And Because Carrol's defenses depend on great safeties or they do not work.

    So we have little choice. Trading down to a cheaper much less effective safety will just result in weaker much less effective defenses.
    TwistedHusky
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4951
    Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:48 pm


Re: Off season talk - Adams & Diggs
Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:51 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Adams is a box safety. That is how he should be used.

    He should only be covering:

    TE
    RB

    I like using him as another LB or DE occasionally to create pressure.

    But nobody should care if he can cover WR because we shouldn't be using him that way.

    And those hits on WRs across the middle are now flags, so using him like we used Kam may not even be an option.


    I know it is a very Carroll thing to force a player to be used in a way that is not consistent with his weaknesses or strengths. But we should hope to resist that because Adams is a very good box safety, if not a great one. Because pressure on the QB is ALWAYS valuable. And Because Carrol's defenses depend on great safeties or they do not work.

    So we have little choice. Trading down to a cheaper much less effective safety will just result in weaker much less effective defenses.


    They are flags if he is defenseless you can still clean up a WR if you use the Shoulder technique and the WR has a step after the catch to make a move.
    chris98251
    .NET Hijacker
     
    Posts: 35610
    Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:52 pm
    Location: Renton Wa.


Re: Off season talk - Adams & Diggs
Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:36 am
  • I always look at the intangibles, things that you really can’t measure.
    IMHO Adams brings more to the table (team) than the stat line shows.

    Obviously things could change for unforeseeable reasons but for now, I say pay the man.
    pmedic920
    * .NET Official Stache *
     
    Posts: 22291
    Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:37 am
    Location: On the lake, Livingston Texas




It is currently Sat May 08, 2021 6:54 pm

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ SEATTLE SEAHAWKS FOOTBALL ]




Information
  • Who is online