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JS: "I never actively negotiated with anybody" re: RW trade

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  • Oh good, Aaron Rodgers wants out of Green Bay, so people might stop caring about Russ.
    Rat
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    Fade wrote:Lame opening joke trying to mask they have no picks and sold their future for Adams.


    Or, maybe they're just not unhappy people who hate their lives and might like to have fun every now and again.


    So if you don't like a lame joke, and love an hour of damage control, you're unhappy? :D

    The fanbase needed answers, not lame jokes, damage control, and flat out lies after going dark for so long.

    It's the opposite actually, people who love to suck up to management are the unhappy ones who are looking to fill a void in their lives.
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  • Fade wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:
    Fade wrote:Lame opening joke trying to mask they have no picks and sold their future for Adams.


    Or, maybe they're just not unhappy people who hate their lives and might like to have fun every now and again.


    So if you don't like a lame joke, and love an hour of damage control, you're unhappy? :D

    The fanbase needed answers, not lame jokes, damage control, and flat out lies after going dark for so long.

    It's the opposite actually, people who love to suck up to management are the unhappy ones who are looking to fill a void in their lives.


    The reality is some were not going to be happy with anything less than Wilson sucks or PC sucks. When teh reality is in the middle and for now its all good.
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  • Rat wrote:Oh good, Aaron Rodgers wants out of Green Bay, so people might stop caring about Russ.


    Both Rodgers and Wilson are jealous of what Brady just did, demand out and go to a ready made SB contender.

    Problem is both QB's have 2-3 years left on their deal at a great price, so neither is going anywhere.


    Some would say Aaron Rodgers future with the Packers is.................................in Jeopardy..............

    Image
    Sgt. Largent
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Rat wrote:Oh good, Aaron Rodgers wants out of Green Bay, so people might stop caring about Russ.


    Both Rodgers and Wilson are jealous of what Brady just did, demand out and go to a ready made SB contender.

    Problem is both QB's have 2-3 years left on their deal at a great price, so neither is going anywhere.


    Some would say Aaron Rodgers future with the Packers is.................................in Jeopardy..............

    Image



    Ah forgot you know what everyone is thinking... oh wait no you dont. How about this stop making crap up.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Rat wrote:Oh good, Aaron Rodgers wants out of Green Bay, so people might stop caring about Russ.


    Both Rodgers and Wilson are jealous of what Brady just did, demand out and go to a ready made SB contender.

    Problem is both QB's have 2-3 years left on their deal at a great price, so neither is going anywhere.


    Some would say Aaron Rodgers future with the Packers is.................................in Jeopardy..............

    Image


    Dammit, I was the first to comment on him, and wasnt clever enough to say that. :(
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Rat wrote:Oh good, Aaron Rodgers wants out of Green Bay, so people might stop caring about Russ.


    Both Rodgers and Wilson are jealous of what Brady just did, demand out and go to a ready made SB contender.

    Problem is both QB's have 2-3 years left on their deal at a great price, so neither is going anywhere.


    Some would say Aaron Rodgers future with the Packers is.................................in Jeopardy..............

    Image


    My exact feelings when it came to Russ's comments
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Balance, that's what wins consistently..........and that's what Pete and John are trying to get back to, a very good to great defense. THAT'S what's holding the Hawks back, their mediocre defense, not the offense and Russell.


    With Pete Carroll supposedly being some defensive genius, how do you feel thats going so far?
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Balance, that's what wins consistently..........and that's what Pete and John are trying to get back to, a very good to great defense. THAT'S what's holding the Hawks back, their mediocre defense, not the offense and Russell.


    With Pete Carroll supposedly being some defensive genius, how do you feel thats going so far?


    Not well, but now that both Pete and John got extensions......do you have more faith that they can build another great defense, or they're going to do a complete 180 and change their entire roster building and team philosophies and all of a sudden hand Russell the keys?

    Not going to happen. So why continue to beat the drum of something that's not going to happen as long as Pete and John are here. You, Russell and everyone can complain all you want but that's the only way this version of the Hawks is getting back to a SB, building another great defense.
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  • hoxrox wrote:To me, Russell has more to prove than Pete does. Pete delivered Seattle its one and only SB championship, in a dominating fashion, using their formula. Russ has yet to “carry the team” without the BOOM or the BEAST.

    And the coaches don't expect him to. Fans who do expect Russ to "carry the team" and are adamant that is the only way, will continue to be disappointed.


    Russ has yet to carry the team without the Boom or the Beast? Thats all he's been doing since then, and he has incompetent games plans and poor coaching to overcome while doing so.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:I've already illustrated that's why the Bucs won last year. Yep, Brady played great in the playoffs, but he was sporatic throughout the regular season, even was called washed up after the first 6-7 games by most football pundits.


    Come on. He just came to a new team with a new coach and new players. Once Brady started to gel, the Buccaneers started to gel.
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  • You guys really want to make this conversation interesting, let me ask you a question.

    Would you trade Russell for Rodgers straight up?
    Sgt. Largent
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  • HawkRiderFan wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Rat wrote:Oh good, Aaron Rodgers wants out of Green Bay, so people might stop caring about Russ.


    Both Rodgers and Wilson are jealous of what Brady just did, demand out and go to a ready made SB contender.

    Problem is both QB's have 2-3 years left on their deal at a great price, so neither is going anywhere.


    Some would say Aaron Rodgers future with the Packers is.................................in Jeopardy..............

    Image


    My exact feelings when it came to Russ's comments


    They werent jealous of what he did, they were jealous of what he had. They also see their respected franchises failing to give them want they need (so much so Wilson went public with it). Both QBs have taken their teams as far as they can without changes being made.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:You guys really want to make this conversation interesting, let me ask you a question.

    Would you trade Russell for Rodgers straight up?


    No, the QB position isnt the problem.
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    hoxrox wrote:To me, Russell has more to prove than Pete does. Pete delivered Seattle its one and only SB championship, in a dominating fashion, using their formula. Russ has yet to “carry the team” without the BOOM or the BEAST.

    And the coaches don't expect him to. Fans who do expect Russ to "carry the team" and are adamant that is the only way, will continue to be disappointed.


    Russ has yet to carry the team without the Boom or the Beast? Thats all he's been doing since then, and he has incompetent games plans and poor coaching to overcome while doing so.



    exactly still waiting for someone to show me a Sb winning QB who did not also have either a great run game or great defense or both. Lord Brady has never done it. Also waiitng for someone to tell me which odds are greater

    a team with a great Qb winning with a either great defense or run game
    A team Winning an SB with a great defense and run game but not great Qb

    so lets look at the last 20 years

    2021--Brady
    2020 Mahomes
    2019 Brady
    2018 Foles okay maybe Philly had a top 10 offense with top 10 run game, 19th ranked defense An anomaly on all levels except run game
    2017 Brady
    2016 Manning
    2015 Brady
    2014 Wilson
    2013 Flaco
    2012 Manning (eli)
    2011 Rodgers
    2010 Brees
    2009 Rothesburger
    2008 Manning Eli
    2007 Manning
    2006 Rothesburger
    2005 Brady
    2004 Brady
    2003 Johnson the poster child for the avg QB winning with great defense and run game
    2002 Brady
    2001 Dilfer the first poster child

    So lets see out of 21 SB winners

    we have

    2 with no doubt avg at best Qbs
    1 with a avg to above avg Qb
    2 with above avg to great QBs
    16 with great QBs

    So now the odds
    .09% with no doubt avg at best
    .05% with avg to above avg
    .09% with above avg to great
    76% with great Qb


    Hmm seems like a no brainer to me
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    HawkRiderFan wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Rat wrote:Oh good, Aaron Rodgers wants out of Green Bay, so people might stop caring about Russ.


    Both Rodgers and Wilson are jealous of what Brady just did, demand out and go to a ready made SB contender.

    Problem is both QB's have 2-3 years left on their deal at a great price, so neither is going anywhere.


    Some would say Aaron Rodgers future with the Packers is.................................in Jeopardy..............

    Image


    My exact feelings when it came to Russ's comments


    They werent jealous of what he did, they were jealous of what he had. They also see their respected franchises failing to give them want they need (so much so Wilson went public with it). Both QBs have taken their teams as far as they can without changes being made.


    It's weird that fans like you and players like Russell think they know better than their successful winning front offices that have put in thousands of hours of scouting, player evaluation and development histories...........meanwhile Russell's getting slime dumped on him at the Nick at Night Awards and taking corny beach pics in Cancun wearing his dad sneakers, and thinks he knows how to run the team better than his coaches, GM and roster building scouts.

    Yep, Brady wanted a new deal and more control of the offense, and Belichick said no. So he negotiated his release so he could go to a team much better positioned to win right away and give him more control...........because they were desperate coming off the worst QB pick in recent history.

    Good for Tom, but that's no blueprint for Russell to emulate or demand.
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:You guys really want to make this conversation interesting, let me ask you a question.

    Would you trade Russell for Rodgers straight up?


    No, the QB position isnt the problem.


    Exactly. plus lets look at it

    Rodgers career year avg, current age 37 and has missed 9 games I removed his first 3 years as he really did not play

    64.1 complt
    3918 yp year
    31 tds per year
    6.2 td %
    103.5 Qb rating
    251 Rushing yard per year avg
    2 rushing tds on avg per year

    total Tds oer year 33
    Total yards per year 4169 yards

    Wilson career year avg current age 32 and has missed 0 games
    65.1 complt %
    3771 yards per year
    30 tds per year
    6.2 td%
    101.7 qb rating
    500 rushig yards on avg per year
    2 rushing tds per year

    total yards 4271
    total tds 32


    So for the most part they are pretty close, except Rodgers has had an offense tailored for him since day 1, is 5 years older and has caused numerous problems in GB.

    So NO I would not make that trade.
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  • One trade I could live with. Wilson for Rodgers.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    HawkRiderFan wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Both Rodgers and Wilson are jealous of what Brady just did, demand out and go to a ready made SB contender.

    Problem is both QB's have 2-3 years left on their deal at a great price, so neither is going anywhere.


    Some would say Aaron Rodgers future with the Packers is.................................in Jeopardy..............

    Image


    My exact feelings when it came to Russ's comments


    They werent jealous of what he did, they were jealous of what he had. They also see their respected franchises failing to give them want they need (so much so Wilson went public with it). Both QBs have taken their teams as far as they can without changes being made.


    It's weird that fans like you and players like Russell think they know better than their successful winning front offices that have put in thousands of hours of scouting, player evaluation and development histories...........meanwhile Russell's getting slime dumped on him at the Nick at Night Awards and taking corny beach pics in Cancun wearing his dad sneakers, and thinks he knows how to run the team better than his coaches, GM and roster building scouts.

    Yep, Brady wanted a new deal and more control of the offense, and Belichick said no. So he negotiated his release so he could go to a team much better positioned to win right away and give him more control...........because they were desperate coming off the worst QB pick in recent history.

    Good for Tom, but that's no blueprint for Russell to emulate or demand.


    Its weirder when so-called fans like you think you know anything. You have ZERO proof Wilson was trying to emulate anything, yuo are just doing what the media did making something out of nothing.
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  • CPHawk wrote:One trade I could live with. Wilson for Rodgers.



    I feel so sorry for you
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  • John63 wrote:
    So NO I would not make that trade.


    Only reason I wouldn't make the trade is Rodgers is 38, and Russell's what, 33? Five years is a lot to give up on a franchise caliber elite QB.

    Other than that if all things are equal I'd make this trade in a heartbeat. Rodgers is the most complete QB in the league, can make all the throws and is just as clutch as Russell.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:You guys really want to make this conversation interesting, let me ask you a question.

    Would you trade Russell for Rodgers straight up?


    In a hypothetical scenario where we knew Russ was going to retire in two years? Yeah, I'd do that.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    So NO I would not make that trade.


    Only reason I wouldn't make the trade is Rodgers is 38, and Russell's what, 33? Five years is a lot to give up on a franchise caliber elite QB.

    Other than that if all things are equal I'd make this trade in a heartbeat. Rodgers is the most complete QB in the league, can make all the throws and is just as clutch as Russell.



    Opinions vary, all that said you would not make it so you blew your own premise
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  • John63 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    hoxrox wrote:
    Great post.

    Pete and JS are not dummies. Maybe they haven’t had a ton of success drafting lately, nor are they perfect, but they understand football. And a winning formula in order to have sustained success in this league (despite having subpar/above average rosters in recent years).

    The Chip Kelleys and fantasy football players of the world, want to put all their SB hopes and dreams on an up-tempo, high-flying offense, and Russell cooking all the meals, but then you face a good defense, who can make you one-dimensional, and you get smacked in the mouth.

    Ask the MVP Rodgers, ask Mahomes. Ask Peyton Manning’s #1 offense… and when Elway's Broncos finally won the SB? It was because of their defense. They took a page out of Pete's book.

    To me, Russell has more to prove than Pete does. Pete delivered Seattle its one and only SB championship, in a dominating fashion, using their formula. Russ has yet to “carry the team” without the BOOM or the BEAST.

    And the coaches don't expect him to. Fans who do expect Russ to "carry the team" and are adamant that is the only way, will continue to be disappointed.

    Balance is sustainable and adaptable. Hero ball is not. The coaches understand this. How they implement and execute their vision is another matter.



    The problem is PC did not deliver anything by himself. He had a season with a top ranked run game and defense and went 7-9. When he got Wilson well history is what it is. To me PC has more to prove as historically in his NFL career he has never really had great season without a TOP QB. His record without a top QB is sub 500, his record with a top QB is over 600. His record in Seattle without Wilson and with a great defense and run game sub 500. With top run game, and defense over 600, without top run game and defense but with top QB over 500. Its nice you mentioned those Qbs do you really think those tams win their SB without those Qb and instead an avg one? NO. The reality is this A great defense and run game is great but will not get you to the Sb or even in the playoff consistently. A great QB can get you to the playoffs consistently but more often than not will not win an SB alone. You need a combination. But in the end it still all starts with the QB, as a great QB always gives you a chance a great run game and or defense does not. So yes his post is great if you are naive and don't understand the game. I know Wilson alone cannot win an SB, but I also know he can keep us relevant and more often than not get us in the playoffs. I also know a great defense alone will not even get us to the playoffs, nor will a great run game alone. You need a combination and 1 part of that which is constant is the QB. PC knows that because if they did not they would not have resigned Wilson multiple times. IF they thought they could just build a great defense and run game and win they would have., They know they need that great QB. Why because they had the great defense and run game and went 7-9. Sorry but the facts are the facts.


    We won a SB and was within a yard of winning another because of a great run game and defense.

    I've already illustrated that's why the Bucs won last year. Yep, Brady played great in the playoffs, but he was sporatic throughout the regular season, even was called washed up after the first 6-7 games by most football pundits.

    No one's saying Russell's not important to this team. He's obviously very important, as is every other QB in the league to their franchise.

    But to say defense doesn't win, or a great run game is short sighted and flat out wrong. You keep trying to swim away from balance and put it on Russell........and that's just not how the game works. You need to be great in all facets to win consistently, and what's failed this team over the past 7-8 years is not the lack of more Russell, it's the defense coming back down to earth and being bad to mediocre.


    IF you really believe that Wilson and the pass game had no impact on us winning the SB, or we get to and win without it and him than you are truly hopeless, and I am sorry for you and done with you.


    They maintained and pulled away, but Smith TD, Kick off return TD, Broken will of the Broncos by the defense before the first quarter was even over won that Super Bowl.

    Now if you want to argue how we got there the defense was still a dominant aspect but there is much more that contributed.
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  • John63 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    So NO I would not make that trade.


    Only reason I wouldn't make the trade is Rodgers is 38, and Russell's what, 33? Five years is a lot to give up on a franchise caliber elite QB.

    Other than that if all things are equal I'd make this trade in a heartbeat. Rodgers is the most complete QB in the league, can make all the throws and is just as clutch as Russell.



    Opinions vary, all that said you would not make it so you blew your own premise


    That's how questions work in forums, you ask the question and let other people answer. Your own answer is frankly unimportant.

    Tomorrow I shall explain how yellow and blue make green.
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  • John63 wrote:
    CPHawk wrote:One trade I could live with. Wilson for Rodgers.



    I feel so sorry for you


    You could just as easily cringe obsess over him as a new Packer fan. Not that you're a fan of any "team" anyway.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:It's weird that fans like you and players like Russell think they know better than their successful winning front offices that have put in thousands of hours of scouting, player evaluation and development histories...........meanwhile Russell's getting slime dumped on him at the Nick at Night Awards and taking corny beach pics in Cancun wearing his dad sneakers, and thinks he knows how to run the team better than his coaches, GM and roster building scouts.

    Yep, Brady wanted a new deal and more control of the offense, and Belichick said no. So he negotiated his release so he could go to a team much better positioned to win right away and give him more control...........because they were desperate coming off the worst QB pick in recent history.

    Good for Tom, but that's no blueprint for Russell to emulate or demand.


    Lol. Take me out of the equation as like you, I am just a fan that comments on what he see's and reads. Russ on the other hand is the guy out there living it. He above anybody should know the shortcomings of the team and organization. The success of that front office is due more to Russ than the moves they have been making lately. As for Wilson attending a Nick At Night Awards or taking a vacation in Cancun,,,,,good lord, arent people allowed to have a personal life? I'm not sure where your even coming from by bringing it up.

    That blueprint worked just fine for Brady so why shouldnt Russ or anybody else try to emulate it? Yeah, it might not work out for them, but their current paths sure arent working out either.
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  • Rat wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    CPHawk wrote:One trade I could live with. Wilson for Rodgers.



    I feel so sorry for you


    You could just as easily cringe obsess over him as a new Packer fan. Not that you're a fan of any "team" anyway.



    LOl yeah of course I am not, I mean you know me so well, oh wait you don't know me at all, you are just making assumptions based on the limited information you have which is less than 1 % of who I am, but dont let that stop you from acting like you know me. Contrary to your belief you can be a fan of a player and of a team. I really like Juliio Jones, and I root for him to do well unless he faces the hawks. I really like Henry and root for him unless he faces us. I really Like Wilson and root him too, and if he ever leaves I will continue to unless he faces us. Contrary t your narrow view you can be a fan of a player and a team and if those 2 things happen to be the same you can also feel the player is instrumental to the team's success.

    I have more to say but why, after all you know me so well....NOT
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  • I loved it when Pete said RW wasn’t the only person frustrated! RW can present himself as the person who wants to win the most & who works the hardest in the NFL or in the Seahawk organization, that’s ridiculous border line insanity with all of RW’s extra activities. I’m not saying RW isn’t doing enough or suggesting his mentality isn’t good enough, it’s just so arrogant & insulting to everyone else in the NFL, thus proving Bennett, Sherman, etc... right who hated RW & called BS on QB pay.

    Again this dust up should’ve taught RW a good lesson and I can’t wait for him to tow the line in his future press conference which will crush the lying media & Carroll haters. Carroll haters should know they’re in big trouble because DE Darrell Taylor is healthy, Poona is legit, and Seattle has lots of flexibility to create cap space for acquisitions thru Oct 2021, they will definitely be the joke of the world if Aldon Smith doesn’t get suspended for assaulting the guy who abused his sister.
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:Wow. Pete just said that he always felt Russ is at his best when getting the ball out quickly, and him and Waldron want to emphasize that rhythm aspect to his game while keeping the extended and play action shots.



    But the response was to a question involving protection.

    Sounds like they understand what the real issue is.


    Yes and it also sounds as if Pete and JS won't be bringing in any talented offensive lineman who are capable pass protectors. They are going to stay with the guys we have and give Russ some quick reads instead. At least he's adjusting play to the players he actually has.
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  • FresnoHawk68 wrote:I loved it when Pete said RW wasn’t the only person frustrated! RW can present himself as the person who wants to win the most & who works the hardest in the NFL or in the Seahawk organization, that’s ridiculous border line insanity with all of RW’s extra activities. I’m not saying RW isn’t doing enough or suggesting his mentality isn’t good enough, it’s just so arrogant & insulting to everyone else in the NFL, thus proving Bennett, Sherman, etc... right who hated RW & called BS on QB pay.

    Again this dust up should’ve taught RW a good lesson and I can’t wait for him to tow the line in his future press conference which will crush the lying media & Carroll haters. Carroll haters should know they’re in big trouble because DE Darrell Taylor is healthy, Poona is legit, and Seattle has lots of flexibility to create cap space for acquisitions thru Oct 2021, they will definitely be the joke of the world if Aldon Smith doesn’t get suspended for assaulting the guy who abused his sister.


    Go take your ritalin kid.
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  • FresnoHawk68 wrote:I loved it when Pete said RW wasn’t the only person frustrated! RW can present himself as the person who wants to win the most & who works the hardest in the NFL or in the Seahawk organization, that’s ridiculous border line insanity with all of RW’s extra activities. I’m not saying RW isn’t doing enough or suggesting his mentality isn’t good enough, it’s just so arrogant & insulting to everyone else in the NFL, thus proving Bennett, Sherman, etc... right who hated RW & called BS on QB pay.

    Again this dust up should’ve taught RW a good lesson and I can’t wait for him to tow the line in his future press conference which will crush the lying media & Carroll haters. Carroll haters should know they’re in big trouble because DE Darrell Taylor is healthy, Poona is legit, and Seattle has lots of flexibility to create cap space for acquisitions thru Oct 2021, they will definitely be the joke of the world if Aldon Smith doesn’t get suspended for assaulting the guy who abused his sister.


    Yes because none ever says a NFL player is the hardest worker or anything not about brady, sherman or anyone. Amazing how you guys hold Wilson to a higher standard than anyone else. This incident should have taught PC a good lesson too. Like maybe keep his knows out of the offense. As to the toe the line, LOL righ that's what it taught him lets see, they got a top o lineman, and very god TE yeah PC sure showed him, and thanks in part to Wilson both Carson and Dunlap resigned. Yeah PC showed Wilson...NOT
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  • brimsalabim wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:Wow. Pete just said that he always felt Russ is at his best when getting the ball out quickly, and him and Waldron want to emphasize that rhythm aspect to his game while keeping the extended and play action shots.



    But the response was to a question involving protection.

    Sounds like they understand what the real issue is.


    Yes and it also sounds as if Pete and JS won't be bringing in any talented offensive lineman who are capable pass protectors. They are going to stay with the guys we have and give Russ some quick reads instead. At least he's adjusting play to the players he actually has.


    PC also said he was frustrated about the hits too, and they did already being in a talented o lineman. So I think they are trying to solve the problems by addressing the 2 biggest issues, tempo, and the line
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:
    CPHawk wrote:One trade I could live with. Wilson for Rodgers.



    I feel so sorry for you


    Much better than whatever other BS trades got thrown around. We could get a first rounder for the next 10 years, but if we don’t have a top tier QB, it’s worthless. That said, I don’t want to make a trade.
    CPHawk
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  • If there is one thing that makes me uncomfortable long term is that they didn't convert Russ's salary into a bonus to clear out more cap room. Unless they did it quietly and didn't announce it. I believe that making that move would push more dead money into the future making a trade as bad as this year would have been. So I can't help but wonder why they won't free up that cap space this year, why don't they want to push that money into the next 2 years?
    HawkRiderFan
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  • HawkRiderFan wrote:If there is one thing that makes me uncomfortable long term is that they didn't convert Russ's salary into a bonus to clear out more cap room. Unless they did it quietly and didn't announce it. I believe that making that move would push more dead money into the future making a trade as bad as this year would have been. So I can't help but wonder why they won't free up that cap space this year, why don't they want to push that money into the next 2 years?


    They don’t need to open up cap space when they do they will! If they open up space it shows their cards & it makes more $$ available for Free Agents to go after. Where things stand right now FAs who want to sign with Seattle have no clue as to how much $$ Seattle really has to spend. Clearly LT Brown is an issue for 2022 but it may only appear to be an issue, we don’t know if Brown wants to play in 2022, what salary he will play for, after watching Trent Williams get 22 plus, maybe Brown wants 18 or 19.

    Had they opened up space Lockett might have cost us more and certainly won’t help us convince Wagner to extend lower than 18 million a year.
    FresnoHawk68
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  • The conference was just another example of how far down our FO has fallen vs where it was.

    Years ago, when we were going to SBs back to back, the Seahawk FO + staff was among the top if not the top in the NFL. You could easily argue that our FO is now not only not even top 5 in the NFL, but likely 3rd in our own division.

    The PC could have nipped this in the bud by just leaking supportive statements and doing a press conference earlier supporting and committing to support Wilson in making this team a winner. They chose instead to drip negatives in their own counter-campaign.

    All that did was stoke the fires hotter and drive more belief that Wilson was leaving. Leading to the Bears rumors and Wilson being a front-page topic on every sports talk show for weeks.

    Because again, they are no longer one of the top FOs, they cannot even deal with the adversity of a frustrated QB without it blowing back on them.

    The staff will never accept that the new NFL means the coach is less important than the QB now. The last SB winner won with a great QB but a good (not great) HC. That is the reality. The QBs have realized how important they are and are now reading the field like they have been conditioned to.

    They might be under contract but they have control because they are not replaceable. Teams that want to win SBs must have a top 10, if not top 5 QB. They don't need a great coach at all, just a strong roster with a great QB.

    Pete still thinks he is important here and tried to assert that. But Pete would be easily replaceable with a number of other coaches, producing the same or better results (in the playoffs) so long as we had Wilson and close to the same roster.

    All of this could have been avoided had Pete just pulled his head out of his aging *ss and either did what Wilson demanded, or at least publicly broadcast support and commitment to Wilson during the early rumor phases. He tried to demonstrate his power instead and ended up looking like he lost control and was going to lose his QB.

    Not sure a 905-year-old HC with rapidly diminishing effectiveness is going to change much anyway. But that conference looked more like an attempt at damage/narrative control than anything else.
    TwistedHusky
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  • Id rather have Trey Lance than Russ. Niners hit on that pick.
    Rat
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    So NO I would not make that trade.


    Only reason I wouldn't make the trade is Rodgers is 38, and Russell's what, 33? Five years is a lot to give up on a franchise caliber elite QB.

    Other than that if all things are equal I'd make this trade in a heartbeat. Rodgers is the most complete QB in the league, can make all the throws and is just as clutch as Russell.


    You can't be serious? Just as clutch as Russell? He is 0-42 in his career when trailing by more than a point in the 4th quarter against a team with a winning record.
    Seanhawk
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  • Rat wrote:Id rather have Trey Lance than Russ. Niners hit on that pick.


    Sure, why not. I mean a guy who throws about 15 times a game vs players who couldn’t even play at UNLV. He must be better than Russ.
    Last edited by CPHawk on Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    CPHawk
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  • massari wrote:Image


    About time my avatar makes an appearance
    Jerhawk
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  • Maulbert wrote:Sorry, didn't see this. Deleted mine.

    Are we done now?



    It's a Me Too moment.
    BleuEyedHawk
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  • FresnoHawk68 wrote:
    HawkRiderFan wrote:If there is one thing that makes me uncomfortable long term is that they didn't convert Russ's salary into a bonus to clear out more cap room. Unless they did it quietly and didn't announce it. I believe that making that move would push more dead money into the future making a trade as bad as this year would have been. So I can't help but wonder why they won't free up that cap space this year, why don't they want to push that money into the next 2 years?


    They don’t need to open up cap space when they do they will! If they open up space it shows their cards & it makes more $$ available for Free Agents to go after. Where things stand right now FAs who want to sign with Seattle have no clue as to how much $$ Seattle really has to spend. Clearly LT Brown is an issue for 2022 but it may only appear to be an issue, we don’t know if Brown wants to play in 2022, what salary he will play for, after watching Trent Williams get 22 plus, maybe Brown wants 18 or 19.

    Had they opened up space Lockett might have cost us more and certainly won’t help us convince Wagner to extend lower than 18 million a year.


    Good stuff. Thanks
    HawkRiderFan
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Balance, that's what wins consistently..........and that's what Pete and John are trying to get back to, a very good to great defense. THAT'S what's holding the Hawks back, their mediocre defense, not the offense and Russell.


    With Pete Carroll supposedly being some defensive genius, how do you feel that's going so far?


    Pete is more of a salesman than a coach. He isn't going to out strategize anyone but excels in motivation. If there is one thing that his career proves it's that he needs superior talent to his opponents in order to win. JS was able to fund the LOB because he struck lightning in a bottle with some high performing but underpaid players. After success though EVERYBODY wanted theirs. They had to get paid and under the cap you can't pay everyone what they want. So here we are hoping for lighting in a bottle again only its more difficult this time around because we already have a top QB. Even average QB's are usually among the highest paid players on a roster because of union pay scale. They occupy so much cap that it takes a lot of luck or exceptional Xs & Os to have success with the roster that you are left with. So Pete has got to have terrific coordinators and he has got to allow them to do their thing if we are getting back to the top.
    brimsalabim
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  • John63 wrote:
    brimsalabim wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:Wow. Pete just said that he always felt Russ is at his best when getting the ball out quickly, and him and Waldron want to emphasize that rhythm aspect to his game while keeping the extended and play action shots.



    But the response was to a question involving protection.

    Sounds like they understand what the real issue is.


    Yes and it also sounds as if Pete and JS won't be bringing in any talented offensive lineman who are capable pass protectors. They are going to stay with the guys we have and give Russ some quick reads instead. At least he's adjusting play to the players he actually has.


    PC also said he was frustrated about the hits too, and they did already being in a talented o lineman. So I think they are trying to solve the problems by addressing the 2 biggest issues, tempo, and the line


    Pete's saying what a lot of us have said over the years, Russell holds onto the ball too long and is directly responsible for a large percentage of the hits he takes.

    How often does he get the ball out on time and on schedule to the right read?

    So sure, no one's saying we can't improve the O-line, but that's missing half the equation if Russell or anyone else thinks he gets hit too much. Russell.
    Sgt. Largent
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  • brimsalabim wrote:
    Pete is more of a salesman than a coach. He isn't going to out strategize anyone but excels in motivation. If there is one thing that his career proves it's that he needs superior talent to his opponents in order to win. JS was able to fund the LOB because he struck lightning in a bottle with some high performing but underpaid players. After success though EVERYBODY wanted theirs. They had to get paid and under the cap you can't pay everyone what they want. So here we are hoping for lighting in a bottle again only its more difficult this time around because we already have a top QB. Even average QB's are usually among the highest paid players on a roster because of union pay scale. They occupy so much cap that it takes a lot of luck or exceptional Xs & Os to have success with the roster that you are left with. So Pete has got to have terrific coordinators and he has got to allow them to do their thing if we are getting back to the top.


    This is like saying a fish needs water. Of course coaches need talent, even “superior” talent to win – including the X and O gurus people seem to covet. Who is an X and O guru? Belicheck, Shanny, McVay, Reid, Holmgren? Yeah, they still need superior talent in order to win. It’s a talent-driven league.

    That Pete, for the most part, is able to maximize subpar talent through competition IS a valuable asset. He’s no QB whisperer, but he’s had a great track record with building defense, and I'm excited to see how that plays out this season.

    I also thought it was interesting they rehired Carl Smith, who Pete referred to as an in-game assistant (for help with clock management, etc).

    We see eye to eye on the football, and when we don't, we figure it out. He's a great asset to me and always has been, as an in-game assistant as well as everything else we do. It's like getting the other part of my brain back. I really appreciate him being part of this. Carl is the kind of guy that will tell me stuff like other people might not say it.


    So the man is self-aware of his strengths and weaknesses. Anyone who is not self-aware cannot have the sustained success he's had for many years in his career.
    hoxrox
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  • So John never ACTIVELY negotiated with anyone? I guess he passively took calls and passively answered questions. Might even passively countered when offered. Lol, does proactively classified as actively?

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk
    toffee
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  • toffee wrote:So John never ACTIVELY negotiated with anyone? I guess he passively took calls and passively answered questions. Might even passively countered when offered. Lol, does proactively classified as actively?

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


    What are you even talking about?
    Ad Hawk
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  • John63 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    hoxrox wrote:
    Great post.

    Pete and JS are not dummies. Maybe they haven’t had a ton of success drafting lately, nor are they perfect, but they understand football. And a winning formula in order to have sustained success in this league (despite having subpar/above average rosters in recent years).

    The Chip Kelleys and fantasy football players of the world, want to put all their SB hopes and dreams on an up-tempo, high-flying offense, and Russell cooking all the meals, but then you face a good defense, who can make you one-dimensional, and you get smacked in the mouth.

    Ask the MVP Rodgers, ask Mahomes. Ask Peyton Manning’s #1 offense… and when Elway's Broncos finally won the SB? It was because of their defense. They took a page out of Pete's book.

    To me, Russell has more to prove than Pete does. Pete delivered Seattle its one and only SB championship, in a dominating fashion, using their formula. Russ has yet to “carry the team” without the BOOM or the BEAST.

    And the coaches don't expect him to. Fans who do expect Russ to "carry the team" and are adamant that is the only way, will continue to be disappointed.

    Balance is sustainable and adaptable. Hero ball is not. The coaches understand this. How they implement and execute their vision is another matter.



    The problem is PC did not deliver anything by himself. He had a season with a top ranked run game and defense and went 7-9. When he got Wilson well history is what it is. To me PC has more to prove as historically in his NFL career he has never really had great season without a TOP QB. His record without a top QB is sub 500, his record with a top QB is over 600. His record in Seattle without Wilson and with a great defense and run game sub 500. With top run game, and defense over 600, without top run game and defense but with top QB over 500. Its nice you mentioned those Qbs do you really think those tams win their SB without those Qb and instead an avg one? NO. The reality is this A great defense and run game is great but will not get you to the Sb or even in the playoff consistently. A great QB can get you to the playoffs consistently but more often than not will not win an SB alone. You need a combination. But in the end it still all starts with the QB, as a great QB always gives you a chance a great run game and or defense does not. So yes his post is great if you are naive and don't understand the game. I know Wilson alone cannot win an SB, but I also know he can keep us relevant and more often than not get us in the playoffs. I also know a great defense alone will not even get us to the playoffs, nor will a great run game alone. You need a combination and 1 part of that which is constant is the QB. PC knows that because if they did not they would not have resigned Wilson multiple times. IF they thought they could just build a great defense and run game and win they would have., They know they need that great QB. Why because they had the great defense and run game and went 7-9. Sorry but the facts are the facts.


    We won a SB and was within a yard of winning another because of a great run game and defense.

    I've already illustrated that's why the Bucs won last year. Yep, Brady played great in the playoffs, but he was sporatic throughout the regular season, even was called washed up after the first 6-7 games by most football pundits.

    No one's saying Russell's not important to this team. He's obviously very important, as is every other QB in the league to their franchise.

    But to say defense doesn't win, or a great run game is short sighted and flat out wrong. You keep trying to swim away from balance and put it on Russell........and that's just not how the game works. You need to be great in all facets to win consistently, and what's failed this team over the past 7-8 years is not the lack of more Russell, it's the defense coming back down to earth and being bad to mediocre.


    IF you really believe that Wilson and the pass game had no impact on us winning the SB, or we get to and win without it and him than you are truly hopeless, and I am sorry for you and done with you.




    He didn't say Russ and the passing game had no impact... read his post...Gosh, you just hear what you want to hear and you don't really hear what is being said...

    LTH
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  • LTH wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    John63 wrote:

    The problem is PC did not deliver anything by himself. He had a season with a top ranked run game and defense and went 7-9. When he got Wilson well history is what it is. To me PC has more to prove as historically in his NFL career he has never really had great season without a TOP QB. His record without a top QB is sub 500, his record with a top QB is over 600. His record in Seattle without Wilson and with a great defense and run game sub 500. With top run game, and defense over 600, without top run game and defense but with top QB over 500. Its nice you mentioned those Qbs do you really think those tams win their SB without those Qb and instead an avg one? NO. The reality is this A great defense and run game is great but will not get you to the Sb or even in the playoff consistently. A great QB can get you to the playoffs consistently but more often than not will not win an SB alone. You need a combination. But in the end it still all starts with the QB, as a great QB always gives you a chance a great run game and or defense does not. So yes his post is great if you are naive and don't understand the game. I know Wilson alone cannot win an SB, but I also know he can keep us relevant and more often than not get us in the playoffs. I also know a great defense alone will not even get us to the playoffs, nor will a great run game alone. You need a combination and 1 part of that which is constant is the QB. PC knows that because if they did not they would not have resigned Wilson multiple times. IF they thought they could just build a great defense and run game and win they would have., They know they need that great QB. Why because they had the great defense and run game and went 7-9. Sorry but the facts are the facts.


    We won a SB and was within a yard of winning another because of a great run game and defense.

    I've already illustrated that's why the Bucs won last year. Yep, Brady played great in the playoffs, but he was sporatic throughout the regular season, even was called washed up after the first 6-7 games by most football pundits.

    No one's saying Russell's not important to this team. He's obviously very important, as is every other QB in the league to their franchise.

    But to say defense doesn't win, or a great run game is short sighted and flat out wrong. You keep trying to swim away from balance and put it on Russell........and that's just not how the game works. You need to be great in all facets to win consistently, and what's failed this team over the past 7-8 years is not the lack of more Russell, it's the defense coming back down to earth and being bad to mediocre.


    IF you really believe that Wilson and the pass game had no impact on us winning the SB, or we get to and win without it and him than you are truly hopeless, and I am sorry for you and done with you.




    He didn't say Russ and the passing game had no impact... read his post...Gosh, you just hear what you want to hear and you don't really hear what is being said...

    LTH


    my reply was to this statement "Pete delivered Seattle its one and only SB championship, in a dominating fashion, using their formula."This downplays Wilson and the passing game involvement then this "Ask the MVP Rodgers, ask Mahomes. Ask Peyton Manning’s #1 offense… and when Elway's Broncos finally won the SB? It was because of their defense. They took a page out of Pete's book. " basically it was the defense that won it. If you are going to make statement excluding parts of the team adn make it look like they were no needed then well you get my reply. I don't ever say we would have won the Sb without the defense and run game nor would we have won it without the pass game and Wilson
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