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JS: "I never actively negotiated with anybody" re: RW trade

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  • First word from the front office on the situation.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Pete remains steady that most of this was simply media speculation, and the situation was handled internally early on.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Image
    massari
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  • Pete seems to be protecting Russell's image a bit. Says Russell never made demands regarding personnel input, but that his input is considered.





    Regarding the trade destination list:

    Maelstrom787
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:Pete seems to be protecting Russell's image a bit. Says Russell never made demands regarding personnel input, but that his input is considered.





    Regarding the trade destination list:






    I like how Pete says "I wish we could have avoided that" (the four team list) as if it was something that just spontaneously appeared and nobody had any control over it....... :D


    Pete absolutely running cover for Russ and his agents here. But also the right move at this point.

    Time to let it go and move on if you're the FO.
    Hawkpower
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  • Wow. Pete just said that he always felt Russ is at his best when getting the ball out quickly, and him and Waldron want to emphasize that rhythm aspect to his game while keeping the extended and play action shots.



    But the response was to a question involving protection.

    Sounds like they understand what the real issue is.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Hawkpower wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:Pete seems to be protecting Russell's image a bit. Says Russell never made demands regarding personnel input, but that his input is considered.





    Regarding the trade destination list:






    I like how Pete says "I wish we could have avoided that" (the four team list) as if it was something that just spontaneously appeared and nobody had any control over it....... :D


    Pete absolutely running cover for Russ and his agents here. But also the right move at this point.

    Time to let it go and move on if you're the FO.



    OR could it be just as he says, it was the media blowing it out of proportion and insulting things, kind of like what you just posted making stuff up instead of taking what was said as what was said.
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  • Or, we could stop talking about the same crap over and over again. There is that.
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  • Sounds like damage control and walk back on things, they have patched up whatever was going on for now.

    They could have cleared the air months ago, but didn't. Why ? Because the issues were there.
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  • This is nothing new. QB and Front office having a little friction. Not sure why so many people act like Russ is any different. BOTH sides handled this poorly.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Or, we could stop talking about the same crap over and over again. There is that.


    This is the first public response by the FO. It's definitely notable. I'm sure the resulting discussion won't be, though.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Front office teasin' us a bit.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Sorry, didn't see this. Deleted mine.

    Are we done now?
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  • Maulbert wrote:Sorry, didn't see this. Deleted mine.

    Are we done now?


    I sure friggin' hope so.
    Maelstrom787
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:

    Front office teasin' us a bit.

    Massive Jamal Adams extension coming. What a huge mistake.
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:Wow. Pete just said that he always felt Russ is at his best when getting the ball out quickly, and him and Waldron want to emphasize that rhythm aspect to his game while keeping the extended and play action shots.



    But the response was to a question involving protection.

    Sounds like they understand what the real issue is.


    The fact that Pete says this himself is very refreshing to hear and gives me hope that we will actually get to see a full season of offense that takes advantage of tempo.
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  • What if pete was covering russ's definincies? Or vice versa? Or both win a lot of games. Glad this is done.
    Shanegotyou11
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  • The success of the Seahawks, in the near future and immediate future is primarily dependent on whether we keep Wilson.

    If Wilson goes, so does any chance at near future success. So what Wilson wants is the key here.

    It is great that Pete thinks we are fine now. Maybe it matters to him. Who cares.

    What JS and Pete think, wish, or want does not matter in terms of whether we keep Wilson.

    What matters is what Wilson thinks and what Wilson wants. And only that.

    Pete and JS are distant 2nds or even 3rds in terms of priority here.

    It does disturb me that the Chiefs knew they had a problem with the OL and went immediately to fix it. Done. Likely fixed in half a year.

    Meanwhile, we chirp on our problems but do little to fix it except making excuses. The Chiefs are paying big contracts to players too, but figure out how to make it work. Frustrating but my opinion as a fan hardly matters either.

    If Wilson is fine with our progress, chances, and changes, great. If not, then it is a problem - regardless of what Pete or JS says.

    (If there was no problem then Wilson would not have had to resort to threatening the team last year, would he?)

    Let's hope we fixed the problems that created this mess. We have likely one season to prove we are worth sticking with now (maybe 2?). Hoping the Seahawks make the most of the chance they have to keep Wilson because without him this team is nothing.
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  • cymatica wrote:
    Maelstrom787 wrote:Wow. Pete just said that he always felt Russ is at his best when getting the ball out quickly, and him and Waldron want to emphasize that rhythm aspect to his game while keeping the extended and play action shots.



    But the response was to a question involving protection.

    Sounds like they understand what the real issue is.


    The fact that Pete says this himself is very refreshing to hear and gives me hope that we will actually get to see a full season of offense that takes advantage of tempo.



    Yes my biggest takeaway as the acknowledgment that tempo make a huge difference and I guess there focus is how to marry tempo and still get the chunk plays PC likes.
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  • So the line is fine Wilson is slow to get the ball out, in comes Waldron, Pete fixed everything.

    Lets see.
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:

    Front office teasin' us a bit.



    Next couple days, we have the Draft, 3 picks right now, do we sell off next years draft for a key player?
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  • HA! Sure thing, Pete.

    I'm glad they patched things up for this year. But I'll be 0% surprised if we're right back where we were next February.
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  • And while this particular offseason distraction might have been a new one, Carroll and Schneider both lightheartedly mentioned that drama is nothing new to an organization that employed Marshawn Lynch for six seasons, and that featured a brash, outspoken and incredibly talented young defense, and yes, that once had to deal with receiver Golden Tate stealing some Top Pot maple bars in an early morning heist just months into his rookie season.

    "We've dealt with a lot of drama now," Schneider said, before Carroll jumped in and added, "Maple Bars to Marshawn…. We've been through a lot of stuff. It's not our first go-around. We've been through a lot of stuff."
    https://www.seahawks.com/news/seahawks-russell-wilson-in-a-fantastic-place-heading-into-2021-season
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:The success of the Seahawks, in the near future and immediate future is primarily dependent on whether we keep Wilson.

    If Wilson goes, so does any chance at near future success. So what Wilson wants is the key here.

    It is great that Pete thinks we are fine now. Maybe it matters to him. Who cares.

    What JS and Pete think, wish, or want does not matter in terms of whether we keep Wilson.

    What matters is what Wilson thinks and what Wilson wants. And only that.

    Pete and JS are distant 2nds or even 3rds in terms of priority here.

    It does disturb me that the Chiefs knew they had a problem with the OL and went immediately to fix it. Done. Likely fixed in half a year.

    Meanwhile, we chirp on our problems but do little to fix it except making excuses. The Chiefs are paying big contracts to players too, but figure out how to make it work. Frustrating but my opinion as a fan hardly matters either.

    If Wilson is fine with our progress, chances, and changes, great. If not, then it is a problem - regardless of what Pete or JS says.

    (If there was no problem then Wilson would not have had to resort to threatening the team last year, would he?)

    Let's hope we fixed the problems that created this mess. We have likely one season to prove we are worth sticking with now (maybe 2?). Hoping the Seahawks make the most of the chance they have to keep Wilson because without him this team is nothing.


    fyi - The last 7 Super bowl winners did so without Wilson; and the one time Wilson did win, it was with the help of 52 other guys -- all put in place and coached by PC/JS. If you really think a football team is about having a star quarterback and catering to his whims, please go look up Dan Marino, Phillip Rivers, Dan Fouts...
    Own The West
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  • Own The West wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:The success of the Seahawks, in the near future and immediate future is primarily dependent on whether we keep Wilson.

    If Wilson goes, so does any chance at near future success. So what Wilson wants is the key here.

    It is great that Pete thinks we are fine now. Maybe it matters to him. Who cares.

    What JS and Pete think, wish, or want does not matter in terms of whether we keep Wilson.

    What matters is what Wilson thinks and what Wilson wants. And only that.

    Pete and JS are distant 2nds or even 3rds in terms of priority here.

    It does disturb me that the Chiefs knew they had a problem with the OL and went immediately to fix it. Done. Likely fixed in half a year.

    Meanwhile, we chirp on our problems but do little to fix it except making excuses. The Chiefs are paying big contracts to players too, but figure out how to make it work. Frustrating but my opinion as a fan hardly matters either.

    If Wilson is fine with our progress, chances, and changes, great. If not, then it is a problem - regardless of what Pete or JS says.

    (If there was no problem then Wilson would not have had to resort to threatening the team last year, would he?)

    Let's hope we fixed the problems that created this mess. We have likely one season to prove we are worth sticking with now (maybe 2?). Hoping the Seahawks make the most of the chance they have to keep Wilson because without him this team is nothing.


    fyi - The last 7 Super bowl winners did so without Wilson; and the one time Wilson did win, it was with the help of 52 other guys -- all put in place and coached by PC/JS. If you really think a football team is about having a star quarterback and catering to his whims, please go look up Dan Marino, Phillip Rivers, Dan Fouts...


    So a few things first I agree it takes a team to win. Second we are not talking about other teams we are talking about our team. Third as to catering to his whims yoy are right rivers, fours. And Marino are not poster child's for it. However, manning, Brees, Brady, Mahomes, Favre, Rodgers, Montana, to name a few are. Like it or not you don't have a top qb you are bot winning consistently. The same does.not hold true for any other position on the field. While there have been exceptions they are few and far between. His point on this team Like it would be for GB, KC, TB, to name a few without the QB they are forgettable. Like it or not it's the truth.
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  • I absolutely loved the press conference! Seahawks crushed the media who fed us spun information and caused us to squabble & speculate! Russ’s agent got tossed under the bus too. Clearly when Russ vented it was a mistake and no big deal. They let us run on our speculation which I thought was brilliant even though it made me a fool because it made the Seahawks stronger as a team which should improve results. What matters is RW, PC, & JS believe in each other as long as that remains true there’s no reason for any speculation or projection.
    Glad they let us know nothing is happening round 1, Jamal is getting extended if all goes well, RT is up for grabs, Barton & BBK are in it to win it, and another Veteran is inbound.
    Also they don’t trade back for 1 player but for a cluster of players! Setting a side the drama Griffith & Reed didn’t meet expectations last year and coincidentally they are no longer with us. It seems like another Veteran DT is inbound over the next 3 or 4 months.
    Seahawks are committed to having the ability to open cap space thru the trade deadline in October vs shooting their wade early like the rest of the NFL.
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  • Takeaways:

    - Lame opening joke trying to mask they have no picks and sold their future for Adams.

    - Waldron is a beast. More uptempo upcoming.

    - They did a bad job hiding the fact that they want to draft an O-Lineman with their first pick trying to pump up Pocic. (You're not fooling anyone, guys.)

    - JS still trotting out that they draft for their team, and not the league. A euphemistic way of saying they draft for need,
    which is a horrible way to draft. It's how you end up taking guys like LJ Collier and Marquise Blair before DK Metcalf, as DE and S were greater needs than WR at the time.

    - Pete has always nipped media issues in the bud immediately, but didn't with the Wilson? Because he knew, and that's all that matters. Sure Pete. :D (Not buying it.)

    - JS claims no deep trade discussions were involved with Wilson. The media needed to follow up and ask if he met with Ryan Pace in Fargo ND, as was reported by Ian Rapoport.

    - JS damage controlling signing and drafting players with domestic violence, robbery, criminal issues, etc.

    - Paying Adams will be a mistake. DON'T DO IT!

    - Damage controlling giving out next to no 2nd contracts from their 2016 & 2017 drafts. '13, '14, '16, & '17 drafts were all terrible, bearing hardly any fruit, but they can't just say that of course. They had no problem dolling out 2nd contracts from their '10, '11, & '12 drafts as a point of reference.

    - Pete admitted he didn't let new players compete last year. "Always Compete" M>I,rite.

    That was a dumpster fire of a press conference, but Waldron gives me hope.
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  • Fade wrote:Lame opening joke trying to mask they have no picks and sold their future for Adams.


    Or, maybe they're just not unhappy people who hate their lives and might like to have fun every now and again.
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  • Fans pretending like everythings fine now and there are no issues,,,,Lol. After next season (maybe even before), when the Seahawks do their typical early playoff exit (if they even make the playoffs), the drama will start again. Also laughed at Pete talking about Russ and the quicker tempo, if thats so true then why does Pete take it away at some point every single season? Hysterical. Anyways, all this humdrum is typical Pete damage control, and its comical people are buying into it.
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  • Own The West wrote:fyi - The last 7 Super bowl winners did so without Wilson; and the one time Wilson did win, it was with the help of 52 other guys -- all put in place and coached by PC/JS. If you really think a football team is about having a star quarterback and catering to his whims, please go look up Dan Marino, Phillip Rivers, Dan Fouts...


    If Russ is so unimportant, take him away and see how good the team is then.
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:Also laughed at Pete talking about Russ and the quicker tempo, if thats so true then why does Pete take it away at some point every single season?


    You... you think Russ has gone uptempo for long stretches every season?

    Did you happen to watch literally any of 2018 or 2019?
    Maelstrom787
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  • Maelstrom787 wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Also laughed at Pete talking about Russ and the quicker tempo, if thats so true then why does Pete take it away at some point every single season?


    You... you think Russ has gone uptempo for long stretches every season?

    Did you happen to watch literally any of 2018 or 2019?


    No I dont, thats my point. Seems it always starts that way and then Pete Ball takes over (save for 4th quarter Russ heroics and 2015).
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:Fans pretending like everythings fine now and there are no issues,,,,Lol. After next season (maybe even before), when the Seahawks do their typical early playoff exit (if they even make the playoffs), the drama will start again. Also laughed at Pete talking about Russ and the quicker tempo, if thats so true then why does Pete take it away at some point every single season? Hysterical. Anyways, all this humdrum is typical Pete damage control, and its comical people are buying into it.


    Why did the Bucs win the SB?

    It wasn't because Brady and the offense was lights out, it was because over the last half of the season they had a top 5 defense and #1 run game, and that's what shined in the SB. Their defense punched Mahomes and the Chiefs high flying offense right in the mouth.

    THAT'S what John and Pete are trying to get back to, much to Mr. Unlimited's chagrin who thinks he's the greatest QB in the history of the world and wants the entire offense in his control.

    Sorry Russ, and sorry fans who think that. Doesn't mean we can't be more dynamic and unpredictable on offense. Thus the Waldron hiring.

    But anyone thinks that unleashing Russell is the answer to all our SB dreams, including Wilson is delusional. Balance, great defense, punishing run game, AND a QB that can play at a high level over the course of a season and the playoffs.

    That's how you win a SB.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Fans pretending like everythings fine now and there are no issues,,,,Lol. After next season (maybe even before), when the Seahawks do their typical early playoff exit (if they even make the playoffs), the drama will start again. Also laughed at Pete talking about Russ and the quicker tempo, if thats so true then why does Pete take it away at some point every single season? Hysterical. Anyways, all this humdrum is typical Pete damage control, and its comical people are buying into it.


    Why did the Bucs win the SB?

    It wasn't because Brady and the offense was lights out, it was because over the last half of the season they had a top 5 defense and #1 run game, and that's what shined in the SB. Their defense punched Mahomes and the Chiefs high flying offense right in the mouth.

    THAT'S what John and Pete are trying to get back to, much to Mr. Unlimited's chagrin who thinks he's the greatest QB in the history of the world and wants the entire offense in his control.

    Sorry Russ, and sorry fans who think that. Doesn't mean we can't be more dynamic and unpredictable on offense. Thus the Waldron hiring.

    But anyone thinks that unleashing Russell is the answer to all our SB dreams, including Wilson is delusional. Balance, great defense, punishing run game, AND a QB that can play at a high level over the course of a season and the playoffs.

    That's how you win a SB.



    Okay a lot of what you say is well not accurate. TB ended up having 27th ranked defense for the season. IF they were top for the 2nd half they would not have been 27th at the end that is mathematical impossible. same holds true for running they were ranked 28th ranked for the season it is impossible for them to be #1 in the final 8 games and them still be 28th overall. You example of TB is wrong as their offense was top 3 in scoring so yeah they were a HUGE reason they won. They were bottom 5 in run, but top 5 in passing which pretty much destroys your narrative.

    How you win a Sb in not a one size fits all. There have been many different formulas for doing it and to think there is only one way is naive. As to what John and Pete are trying to get back to you have no clue, neither do any of us for sure.

    Al that said nothing you said is accuarate and the FACTS show it.
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  • chris98251 wrote:So the line is fine Wilson is slow to get the ball out, in comes Waldron, Pete fixed everything.

    Lets see.
    I don't think it would be effective to run a lot and making lots of short passes. Our old model of running plus deep balls forces the defense to space out some? Right?

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk
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  • toffee wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:So the line is fine Wilson is slow to get the ball out, in comes Waldron, Pete fixed everything.

    Lets see.
    I don't think it would be effective to run a lot and making lots of short passes. Our old model of running plus deep balls forces the defense to space out some? Right?

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


    A defense has a choice, focus on shutting down a strength, if we can't run at will they have be good in coverage and get to Wilson, faster short area passes and RAC by the receivers pull in the two deep and make them cover underneath routes opening up the deep ball.

    If they flood the secondary in Nickel and Dime packages to take away the pass we better be able to run well and march down the field.


    They were able to shut down the run last year with a standard package for the most part and use a two deep taking away the deep ball the second half of the season. With LB's in run support and CB's playing a lot of man and over the top help with Safeties you have a huge area for intermediate passing and YAC with RB's, slot receivers, and TE's we didn't utilize, again Russell and or Pete don't like inside slants and seams, it is almost always going to the edge and away which also leads to pick six's if you watch for it.
    chris98251
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  • Pete and John did a great job navigating this minefield, but most of what they said sounded like damaged control to protect Russell.

    In particular, John was asked point-blank about Mark Rodgers's trade list; John said Pete was talking to Russ, and he was talking to Rodgers while indicating that those conversations would stay private. You can't claim it's a media creation while also acknowledging the incident that fueled the creation; otherwise, the front office, Mark Rodgers, or Wilson could have come out immediately and squashed the controversy on the grounds of misunderstanding, but they didn't. So now they are blaming the media for creating a story that came directly from Russell's camp. Not a great look for the front office or Wilson, but it will probably help them avoid further questioning from the local media.
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  • John63 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Fans pretending like everythings fine now and there are no issues,,,,Lol. After next season (maybe even before), when the Seahawks do their typical early playoff exit (if they even make the playoffs), the drama will start again. Also laughed at Pete talking about Russ and the quicker tempo, if thats so true then why does Pete take it away at some point every single season? Hysterical. Anyways, all this humdrum is typical Pete damage control, and its comical people are buying into it.


    Why did the Bucs win the SB?

    It wasn't because Brady and the offense was lights out, it was because over the last half of the season they had a top 5 defense and #1 run game, and that's what shined in the SB. Their defense punched Mahomes and the Chiefs high flying offense right in the mouth.

    THAT'S what John and Pete are trying to get back to, much to Mr. Unlimited's chagrin who thinks he's the greatest QB in the history of the world and wants the entire offense in his control.

    Sorry Russ, and sorry fans who think that. Doesn't mean we can't be more dynamic and unpredictable on offense. Thus the Waldron hiring.

    But anyone thinks that unleashing Russell is the answer to all our SB dreams, including Wilson is delusional. Balance, great defense, punishing run game, AND a QB that can play at a high level over the course of a season and the playoffs.

    That's how you win a SB.



    Okay a lot of what you say is well not accurate. TB ended up having 27th ranked defense for the season. IF they were top for the 2nd half they would not have been 27th at the end that is mathematical impossible. same holds true for running they were ranked 28th ranked for the season it is impossible for them to be #1 in the final 8 games and them still be 28th overall. You example of TB is wrong as their offense was top 3 in scoring so yeah they were a HUGE reason they won. They were bottom 5 in run, but top 5 in passing which pretty much destroys your narrative.

    How you win a Sb in not a one size fits all. There have been many different formulas for doing it and to think there is only one way is naive. As to what John and Pete are trying to get back to you have no clue, neither do any of us for sure.

    Al that said nothing you said is accuarate and the FACTS show it.



    TB had the 8th ranked defense in 2020, idk what you're looking at.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... 20/opp.htm
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Fans pretending like everythings fine now and there are no issues,,,,Lol. After next season (maybe even before), when the Seahawks do their typical early playoff exit (if they even make the playoffs), the drama will start again. Also laughed at Pete talking about Russ and the quicker tempo, if thats so true then why does Pete take it away at some point every single season? Hysterical. Anyways, all this humdrum is typical Pete damage control, and its comical people are buying into it.


    Why did the Bucs win the SB?

    It wasn't because Brady and the offense was lights out, it was because over the last half of the season they had a top 5 defense and #1 run game, and that's what shined in the SB. Their defense punched Mahomes and the Chiefs high flying offense right in the mouth.

    THAT'S what John and Pete are trying to get back to, much to Mr. Unlimited's chagrin who thinks he's the greatest QB in the history of the world and wants the entire offense in his control.

    Sorry Russ, and sorry fans who think that. Doesn't mean we can't be more dynamic and unpredictable on offense. Thus the Waldron hiring.

    But anyone thinks that unleashing Russell is the answer to all our SB dreams, including Wilson is delusional. Balance, great defense, punishing run game, AND a QB that can play at a high level over the course of a season and the playoffs.

    That's how you win a SB.


    Fournette averaged about 70 yards a game in the post season and the defense gave up over 20 points a game (save the actual Super Bowl). I'm not really buying what your selling.

    I realize Pete and John are trying to get a great defense together again (have been for years now), but they have failed and are so far away that the only choice going forward is to rely on the best player on the team and thats Wilson. Nightmarish moves like giving the world away for players like Adams isnt fixing anything, its actually hurting the process in which they are trying to accomplish. The defense and the running game is what Pete wants to fall back on and those are the teams 2 biggest weaknesses. Is it any wonder the Hawks dont go anywhere in the postseason?
    pittpnthrs
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  • knownone wrote:Pete and John did a great job navigating this minefield, but most of what they said sounded like damaged control to protect Russell.

    In particular, John was asked point-blank about Mark Rodgers's trade list; John said Pete was talking to Russ, and he was talking to Rodgers while indicating that those conversations would stay private. You can't claim it's a media creation while also acknowledging the incident that fueled the creation; otherwise, the front office, Mark Rodgers, or Wilson could have come out immediately and squashed the controversy on the grounds of misunderstanding, but they didn't. So now they are blaming the media for creating a story that came directly from Russell's camp. Not a great look for the front office or Wilson, but it will probably help them avoid further questioning from the local media.


    Not disagreeing but is that a bad thing, especially if the relationship needed mending? To claim stuff that can make them look bad or not telling the whole truth in order to not criticise Russ in public?

    Wouldn't be the first time Pete did this in public. One example I can think of is shrugging off the "come get me" game in Dallas as just Earl being Earl. I guess that one didn't end well though.
    Last edited by HawkRiderFan on Thu Apr 29, 2021 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
    HawkRiderFan
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  • toffee wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:So the line is fine Wilson is slow to get the ball out, in comes Waldron, Pete fixed everything.

    Lets see.
    I don't think it would be effective to run a lot and making lots of short passes. Our old model of running plus deep balls forces the defense to space out some? Right?

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk



    I think you are going to see a lot of everything with the biggest thing being tempo and less predictable, and alot of quicker adjustments.
    John63
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  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Fans pretending like everythings fine now and there are no issues,,,,Lol. After next season (maybe even before), when the Seahawks do their typical early playoff exit (if they even make the playoffs), the drama will start again. Also laughed at Pete talking about Russ and the quicker tempo, if thats so true then why does Pete take it away at some point every single season? Hysterical. Anyways, all this humdrum is typical Pete damage control, and its comical people are buying into it.


    Why did the Bucs win the SB?

    It wasn't because Brady and the offense was lights out, it was because over the last half of the season they had a top 5 defense and #1 run game, and that's what shined in the SB. Their defense punched Mahomes and the Chiefs high flying offense right in the mouth.

    THAT'S what John and Pete are trying to get back to, much to Mr. Unlimited's chagrin who thinks he's the greatest QB in the history of the world and wants the entire offense in his control.

    Sorry Russ, and sorry fans who think that. Doesn't mean we can't be more dynamic and unpredictable on offense. Thus the Waldron hiring.

    But anyone thinks that unleashing Russell is the answer to all our SB dreams, including Wilson is delusional. Balance, great defense, punishing run game, AND a QB that can play at a high level over the course of a season and the playoffs.

    That's how you win a SB.


    Fournette averaged about 70 yards a game in the post season and the defense gave up over 20 points a game (save the actual Super Bowl). I'm not really buying what your selling.

    I realize Pete and John are trying to get a great defense together again (have been for years now), but they have failed and are so far away that the only choice going forward is to rely on the best player on the team and thats Wilson. Nightmarish moves like giving the world away for players like Adams isnt fixing anything, its actually hurting the process in which they are trying to accomplish. The defense and the running game is what Pete wants to fall back on and those are the teams 2 biggest weaknesses. Is it any wonder the Hawks dont go anywhere in the postseason?


    "save the actual SB." Lol.

    If you didn't watch the SB, and the Packers game and came away not impressed with how well the Bucs defense was flying around and hitting especially the D-line and LB's, and the offense was running the ball?

    Then you didn't watch, or you're being argumentative.

    Balance, that's what wins consistently..........and that's what Pete and John are trying to get back to, a very good to great defense. THAT'S what's holding the Hawks back, their mediocre defense, not the offense and Russell.
    Sgt. Largent
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  • knownone wrote:Pete and John did a great job navigating this minefield, but most of what they said sounded like damaged control to protect Russell.

    In particular, John was asked point-blank about Mark Rodgers's trade list; John said Pete was talking to Russ, and he was talking to Rodgers while indicating that those conversations would stay private. You can't claim it's a media creation while also acknowledging the incident that fueled the creation; otherwise, the front office, Mark Rodgers, or Wilson could have come out immediately and squashed the controversy on the grounds of misunderstanding, but they didn't. So now they are blaming the media for creating a story that came directly from Russell's camp. Not a great look for the front office or Wilson, but it will probably help them avoid further questioning from the local media.



    Perhaps or it could be all of the above. For example Wilson did not cal lout any player but himself or any positions group, the media Assumed stuff. For the most part you are going to take away from this media session what you want, if you went in wanting Wilson to be the bad guy he with still be, if you went in thinking the FO was the bad guy they still are. The truth does not mater, all that matters is what you want to matter.

    For me they pretty much validated what I already thought, there were some mistakes on both sides, but the media blew it way out of proportion.
    John63
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Why did the Bucs win the SB?

    It wasn't because Brady and the offense was lights out, it was because over the last half of the season they had a top 5 defense and #1 run game, and that's what shined in the SB. Their defense punched Mahomes and the Chiefs high flying offense right in the mouth.

    THAT'S what John and Pete are trying to get back to, much to Mr. Unlimited's chagrin who thinks he's the greatest QB in the history of the world and wants the entire offense in his control.

    Sorry Russ, and sorry fans who think that. Doesn't mean we can't be more dynamic and unpredictable on offense. Thus the Waldron hiring.

    But anyone thinks that unleashing Russell is the answer to all our SB dreams, including Wilson is delusional. Balance, great defense, punishing run game, AND a QB that can play at a high level over the course of a season and the playoffs.

    That's how you win a SB.


    Great post.

    Pete and JS are not dummies. Maybe they haven’t had a ton of success drafting lately, nor are they perfect, but they understand football. And a winning formula in order to have sustained success in this league (despite having subpar/above average rosters in recent years).

    The Chip Kelleys and fantasy football players of the world, want to put all their SB hopes and dreams on an up-tempo, high-flying offense, and Russell cooking all the meals, but then you face a good defense, who can make you one-dimensional, and you get smacked in the mouth.

    Ask the MVP Rodgers, ask Mahomes. Ask Peyton Manning’s #1 offense… and when Elway's Broncos finally won the SB? It was because of their defense. They took a page out of Pete's book.

    To me, Russell has more to prove than Pete does. Pete delivered Seattle its one and only SB championship, in a dominating fashion, using their formula. Russ has yet to “carry the team” without the BOOM or the BEAST.

    And the coaches don't expect him to. Fans who do expect Russ to "carry the team" and are adamant that is the only way, will continue to be disappointed.

    Balance is sustainable and adaptable. Hero ball is not. The coaches understand this. How they implement and execute their vision is another matter.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:Fans pretending like everythings fine now and there are no issues,,,,Lol. After next season (maybe even before), when the Seahawks do their typical early playoff exit (if they even make the playoffs), the drama will start again. Also laughed at Pete talking about Russ and the quicker tempo, if thats so true then why does Pete take it away at some point every single season? Hysterical. Anyways, all this humdrum is typical Pete damage control, and its comical people are buying into it.


    Why did the Bucs win the SB?

    It wasn't because Brady and the offense was lights out, it was because over the last half of the season they had a top 5 defense and #1 run game, and that's what shined in the SB. Their defense punched Mahomes and the Chiefs high flying offense right in the mouth.

    THAT'S what John and Pete are trying to get back to, much to Mr. Unlimited's chagrin who thinks he's the greatest QB in the history of the world and wants the entire offense in his control.

    Sorry Russ, and sorry fans who think that. Doesn't mean we can't be more dynamic and unpredictable on offense. Thus the Waldron hiring.

    But anyone thinks that unleashing Russell is the answer to all our SB dreams, including Wilson is delusional. Balance, great defense, punishing run game, AND a QB that can play at a high level over the course of a season and the playoffs.

    That's how you win a SB.



    Okay a lot of what you say is well not accurate. TB ended up having 27th ranked defense for the season. IF they were top for the 2nd half they would not have been 27th at the end that is mathematical impossible. same holds true for running they were ranked 28th ranked for the season it is impossible for them to be #1 in the final 8 games and them still be 28th overall. You example of TB is wrong as their offense was top 3 in scoring so yeah they were a HUGE reason they won. They were bottom 5 in run, but top 5 in passing which pretty much destroys your narrative.

    How you win a Sb in not a one size fits all. There have been many different formulas for doing it and to think there is only one way is naive. As to what John and Pete are trying to get back to you have no clue, neither do any of us for sure.

    Al that said nothing you said is accuarate and the FACTS show it.



    TB had the 8th ranked defense in 2020, idk what you're looking at.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... 20/opp.htm


    Actually I Stand corrected don that the ESPN site brought the info back in inverse order So 8th is correct but still not top 5 and again the offense was top 7 with the pass game 3rd and the run game 28th, and they were the 3rd ranked scoring offense so that still makes your statement wrong. So it was not the Run game and defense that led the way at all. It was the pass game and defense that led the way with the Offense being the better of the 2.
    Also if we break down the defense we find out they were 21st against the pass, and 1st against the run. So while they defense was good, it was not a complete defense just as the offense was not a complete offense. You had a top 5 run defense and top 5 pass offense. However, the run game and pass defense was sub par. What they did do though was have great defensive game plans in the playoffs. Knowing if you hit Mahomes a few times he starts loosing composure.
    John63
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  • hoxrox wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Why did the Bucs win the SB?

    It wasn't because Brady and the offense was lights out, it was because over the last half of the season they had a top 5 defense and #1 run game, and that's what shined in the SB. Their defense punched Mahomes and the Chiefs high flying offense right in the mouth.

    THAT'S what John and Pete are trying to get back to, much to Mr. Unlimited's chagrin who thinks he's the greatest QB in the history of the world and wants the entire offense in his control.

    Sorry Russ, and sorry fans who think that. Doesn't mean we can't be more dynamic and unpredictable on offense. Thus the Waldron hiring.

    But anyone thinks that unleashing Russell is the answer to all our SB dreams, including Wilson is delusional. Balance, great defense, punishing run game, AND a QB that can play at a high level over the course of a season and the playoffs.

    That's how you win a SB.


    Great post.

    Pete and JS are not dummies. Maybe they haven’t had a ton of success drafting lately, nor are they perfect, but they understand football. And a winning formula in order to have sustained success in this league (despite having subpar/above average rosters in recent years).

    The Chip Kelleys and fantasy football players of the world, want to put all their SB hopes and dreams on an up-tempo, high-flying offense, and Russell cooking all the meals, but then you face a good defense, who can make you one-dimensional, and you get smacked in the mouth.

    Ask the MVP Rodgers, ask Mahomes. Ask Peyton Manning’s #1 offense… and when Elway's Broncos finally won the SB? It was because of their defense. They took a page out of Pete's book.

    To me, Russell has more to prove than Pete does. Pete delivered Seattle its one and only SB championship, in a dominating fashion, using their formula. Russ has yet to “carry the team” without the BOOM or the BEAST.

    And the coaches don't expect him to. Fans who do expect Russ to "carry the team" and are adamant that is the only way, will continue to be disappointed.

    Balance is sustainable and adaptable. Hero ball is not. The coaches understand this. How they implement and execute their vision is another matter.



    The problem is PC did not deliver anything by himself. He had a season with a top ranked run game and defense and went 7-9. When he got Wilson well history is what it is. To me PC has more to prove as historically in his NFL career he has never really had great season without a TOP QB. His record without a top QB is sub 500, his record with a top QB is over 600. His record in Seattle without Wilson and with a great defense and run game sub 500. With top run game, and defense over 600, without top run game and defense but with top QB over 500. Its nice you mentioned those Qbs do you really think those tams win their SB without those Qb and instead an avg one? NO. The reality is this A great defense and run game is great but will not get you to the Sb or even in the playoff consistently. A great QB can get you to the playoffs consistently but more often than not will not win an SB alone. You need a combination. But in the end it still all starts with the QB, as a great QB always gives you a chance a great run game and or defense does not. So yes his post is great if you are naive and don't understand the game. I know Wilson alone cannot win an SB, but I also know he can keep us relevant and more often than not get us in the playoffs. I also know a great defense alone will not even get us to the playoffs, nor will a great run game alone. You need a combination and 1 part of that which is constant is the QB. PC knows that because if they did not they would not have resigned Wilson multiple times. IF they thought they could just build a great defense and run game and win they would have., They know they need that great QB. Why because they had the great defense and run game and went 7-9. Sorry but the facts are the facts.
    John63
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  • HawkRiderFan wrote:
    knownone wrote:Pete and John did a great job navigating this minefield, but most of what they said sounded like damaged control to protect Russell.

    In particular, John was asked point-blank about Mark Rodgers's trade list; John said Pete was talking to Russ, and he was talking to Rodgers while indicating that those conversations would stay private. You can't claim it's a media creation while also acknowledging the incident that fueled the creation; otherwise, the front office, Mark Rodgers, or Wilson could have come out immediately and squashed the controversy on the grounds of misunderstanding, but they didn't. So now they are blaming the media for creating a story that came directly from Russell's camp. Not a great look for the front office or Wilson, but it will probably help them avoid further questioning from the local media.


    Not disagreeing but is that a bad thing, especially if the relationship needed mending? To claim stuff that can make them look bad or not telling the whole truth in order to not criticise Russ in public?

    Wouldn't be the first time Pete did this in public. One example I can think of is shrugging off the "come get me" game in Dallas as just Earl being Earl. I guess that one didn't end well though.

    I agree with you. It's not a bad thing. It is the only thing they could do without exacerbating the situation. However, it felt like it was worth noting because, as you pointed out, this is very similar to how Pete handled situations with Earl (and others) in the past. And those situations typically ended with separations in the following off-season.
    knownone
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  • John63 wrote:
    hoxrox wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Why did the Bucs win the SB?

    It wasn't because Brady and the offense was lights out, it was because over the last half of the season they had a top 5 defense and #1 run game, and that's what shined in the SB. Their defense punched Mahomes and the Chiefs high flying offense right in the mouth.

    THAT'S what John and Pete are trying to get back to, much to Mr. Unlimited's chagrin who thinks he's the greatest QB in the history of the world and wants the entire offense in his control.

    Sorry Russ, and sorry fans who think that. Doesn't mean we can't be more dynamic and unpredictable on offense. Thus the Waldron hiring.

    But anyone thinks that unleashing Russell is the answer to all our SB dreams, including Wilson is delusional. Balance, great defense, punishing run game, AND a QB that can play at a high level over the course of a season and the playoffs.

    That's how you win a SB.


    Great post.

    Pete and JS are not dummies. Maybe they haven’t had a ton of success drafting lately, nor are they perfect, but they understand football. And a winning formula in order to have sustained success in this league (despite having subpar/above average rosters in recent years).

    The Chip Kelleys and fantasy football players of the world, want to put all their SB hopes and dreams on an up-tempo, high-flying offense, and Russell cooking all the meals, but then you face a good defense, who can make you one-dimensional, and you get smacked in the mouth.

    Ask the MVP Rodgers, ask Mahomes. Ask Peyton Manning’s #1 offense… and when Elway's Broncos finally won the SB? It was because of their defense. They took a page out of Pete's book.

    To me, Russell has more to prove than Pete does. Pete delivered Seattle its one and only SB championship, in a dominating fashion, using their formula. Russ has yet to “carry the team” without the BOOM or the BEAST.

    And the coaches don't expect him to. Fans who do expect Russ to "carry the team" and are adamant that is the only way, will continue to be disappointed.

    Balance is sustainable and adaptable. Hero ball is not. The coaches understand this. How they implement and execute their vision is another matter.



    The problem is PC did not deliver anything by himself. He had a season with a top ranked run game and defense and went 7-9. When he got Wilson well history is what it is. To me PC has more to prove as historically in his NFL career he has never really had great season without a TOP QB. His record without a top QB is sub 500, his record with a top QB is over 600. His record in Seattle without Wilson and with a great defense and run game sub 500. With top run game, and defense over 600, without top run game and defense but with top QB over 500. Its nice you mentioned those Qbs do you really think those tams win their SB without those Qb and instead an avg one? NO. The reality is this A great defense and run game is great but will not get you to the Sb or even in the playoff consistently. A great QB can get you to the playoffs consistently but more often than not will not win an SB alone. You need a combination. But in the end it still all starts with the QB, as a great QB always gives you a chance a great run game and or defense does not. So yes his post is great if you are naive and don't understand the game. I know Wilson alone cannot win an SB, but I also know he can keep us relevant and more often than not get us in the playoffs. I also know a great defense alone will not even get us to the playoffs, nor will a great run game alone. You need a combination and 1 part of that which is constant is the QB. PC knows that because if they did not they would not have resigned Wilson multiple times. IF they thought they could just build a great defense and run game and win they would have., They know they need that great QB. Why because they had the great defense and run game and went 7-9. Sorry but the facts are the facts.


    We won a SB and was within a yard of winning another because of a great run game and defense.

    I've already illustrated that's why the Bucs won last year. Yep, Brady played great in the playoffs, but he was sporatic throughout the regular season, even was called washed up after the first 6-7 games by most football pundits.

    No one's saying Russell's not important to this team. He's obviously very important, as is every other QB in the league to their franchise.

    But to say defense doesn't win, or a great run game is short sighted and flat out wrong. You keep trying to swim away from balance and put it on Russell........and that's just not how the game works. You need to be great in all facets to win consistently, and what's failed this team over the past 7-8 years is not the lack of more Russell, it's the defense coming back down to earth and being bad to mediocre.
    Sgt. Largent
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  • knownone wrote:
    HawkRiderFan wrote:
    knownone wrote:Pete and John did a great job navigating this minefield, but most of what they said sounded like damaged control to protect Russell.

    In particular, John was asked point-blank about Mark Rodgers's trade list; John said Pete was talking to Russ, and he was talking to Rodgers while indicating that those conversations would stay private. You can't claim it's a media creation while also acknowledging the incident that fueled the creation; otherwise, the front office, Mark Rodgers, or Wilson could have come out immediately and squashed the controversy on the grounds of misunderstanding, but they didn't. So now they are blaming the media for creating a story that came directly from Russell's camp. Not a great look for the front office or Wilson, but it will probably help them avoid further questioning from the local media.


    Not disagreeing but is that a bad thing, especially if the relationship needed mending? To claim stuff that can make them look bad or not telling the whole truth in order to not criticise Russ in public?

    Wouldn't be the first time Pete did this in public. One example I can think of is shrugging off the "come get me" game in Dallas as just Earl being Earl. I guess that one didn't end well though.

    I agree with you. It's not a bad thing. It is the only thing they could do without exacerbating the situation. However, it felt like it was worth noting because, as you pointed out, this is very similar to how Pete handled situations with Earl (and others) in the past. And those situations typically ended with separations in the following off-season.



    And this might too, but I somehow suspect tit will not. .For one all those other situation had several incidents while this is pretty much isolated.
    John63
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    hoxrox wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Why did the Bucs win the SB?

    It wasn't because Brady and the offense was lights out, it was because over the last half of the season they had a top 5 defense and #1 run game, and that's what shined in the SB. Their defense punched Mahomes and the Chiefs high flying offense right in the mouth.

    THAT'S what John and Pete are trying to get back to, much to Mr. Unlimited's chagrin who thinks he's the greatest QB in the history of the world and wants the entire offense in his control.

    Sorry Russ, and sorry fans who think that. Doesn't mean we can't be more dynamic and unpredictable on offense. Thus the Waldron hiring.

    But anyone thinks that unleashing Russell is the answer to all our SB dreams, including Wilson is delusional. Balance, great defense, punishing run game, AND a QB that can play at a high level over the course of a season and the playoffs.

    That's how you win a SB.


    Great post.

    Pete and JS are not dummies. Maybe they haven’t had a ton of success drafting lately, nor are they perfect, but they understand football. And a winning formula in order to have sustained success in this league (despite having subpar/above average rosters in recent years).

    The Chip Kelleys and fantasy football players of the world, want to put all their SB hopes and dreams on an up-tempo, high-flying offense, and Russell cooking all the meals, but then you face a good defense, who can make you one-dimensional, and you get smacked in the mouth.

    Ask the MVP Rodgers, ask Mahomes. Ask Peyton Manning’s #1 offense… and when Elway's Broncos finally won the SB? It was because of their defense. They took a page out of Pete's book.

    To me, Russell has more to prove than Pete does. Pete delivered Seattle its one and only SB championship, in a dominating fashion, using their formula. Russ has yet to “carry the team” without the BOOM or the BEAST.

    And the coaches don't expect him to. Fans who do expect Russ to "carry the team" and are adamant that is the only way, will continue to be disappointed.

    Balance is sustainable and adaptable. Hero ball is not. The coaches understand this. How they implement and execute their vision is another matter.



    The problem is PC did not deliver anything by himself. He had a season with a top ranked run game and defense and went 7-9. When he got Wilson well history is what it is. To me PC has more to prove as historically in his NFL career he has never really had great season without a TOP QB. His record without a top QB is sub 500, his record with a top QB is over 600. His record in Seattle without Wilson and with a great defense and run game sub 500. With top run game, and defense over 600, without top run game and defense but with top QB over 500. Its nice you mentioned those Qbs do you really think those tams win their SB without those Qb and instead an avg one? NO. The reality is this A great defense and run game is great but will not get you to the Sb or even in the playoff consistently. A great QB can get you to the playoffs consistently but more often than not will not win an SB alone. You need a combination. But in the end it still all starts with the QB, as a great QB always gives you a chance a great run game and or defense does not. So yes his post is great if you are naive and don't understand the game. I know Wilson alone cannot win an SB, but I also know he can keep us relevant and more often than not get us in the playoffs. I also know a great defense alone will not even get us to the playoffs, nor will a great run game alone. You need a combination and 1 part of that which is constant is the QB. PC knows that because if they did not they would not have resigned Wilson multiple times. IF they thought they could just build a great defense and run game and win they would have., They know they need that great QB. Why because they had the great defense and run game and went 7-9. Sorry but the facts are the facts.


    We won a SB and was within a yard of winning another because of a great run game and defense.

    I've already illustrated that's why the Bucs won last year. Yep, Brady played great in the playoffs, but he was sporatic throughout the regular season, even was called washed up after the first 6-7 games by most football pundits.

    No one's saying Russell's not important to this team. He's obviously very important, as is every other QB in the league to their franchise.

    But to say defense doesn't win, or a great run game is short sighted and flat out wrong. You keep trying to swim away from balance and put it on Russell........and that's just not how the game works. You need to be great in all facets to win consistently, and what's failed this team over the past 7-8 years is not the lack of more Russell, it's the defense coming back down to earth and being bad to mediocre.


    IF you really believe that Wilson and the pass game had no impact on us winning the SB, or we get to and win without it and him than you are truly hopeless, and I am sorry for you and done with you.
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