For OL, the advantage and disadvantage of height

toffee

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We had Joey Hunt, who was 6'2"? Now we have Stone who is 6'8". What is the advantage or otherwise of height when it comes to OL?

What if we clone Poona Ford then engineer for the clones to have disproportionately long arms? An OL of five short but very wide bodies, long armed fella, 5'10" and 310lbs. Very low center of gravity, low pad level, width to full gaps, short legs built for acceleration?

Tall DL can block QB's line of sights and swap away passes, what could tall OL do that shorties couldn't?

Off season, totally bored, please tolerate my nonsenses lol.

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BlueTalon

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If the tall OL has long arms and is otherwise proportional and strong and sturdy, he can presumably use those long arms to his advantage.
 
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toffee

toffee

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BlueTalon":3ka8j4hq said:
If the tall OL has long arms and is otherwise proportional and strong and sturdy, he can presumably use those long arms to his advantage.

True!

Since this is a total time wasting thread, so for the sake of argument. Our

Our Poona Ford: 5, 11", 32.75" arms and 80.25 wingspan;
David Bakhtiari, all pro: 6'4", 34" arms and 79.75" wingspan.
Ryan Ramczyk, all pro: 6'6" , 33.75 arms, and 80.5" wingspan

Sounded like a short chubby dude compensate for lack of arm length with wider body, which is ideal for filling gaps?
 

chris98251

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Long arms can keep defenders controlled easier by not letting them get into your body where they can out strength you.

But feet are more important on both sides, agility and quick can offset arms by creating leverage issues, no legs no strength and no control.

Why our plodders as O lineman get beat so badly bad feet but big and strong.
 
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toffee

toffee

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chris98251":1ox6cxr6 said:
Long arms can keep defenders controlled easier by not letting them get into your body where they can out strength you.

But feet are more important on both sides, agility and quick can offset arms by creating leverage issues, no legs no strength and no control.

Why our plodders as O lineman get beat so badly bad feet but big and strong.

One would think that height shouldn't play a part in footwork?
 

Own The West

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Height isn't as important as length. Whomever has the longer arms can attack the other's frame while keeping theirs clean.

Height plays a part in leverage though. If you think about 5'11" Poona and 6'8" Stone going against each other, Stone has to drop his hips 5-6" to push straight across or else Poona is lifting him up which would make it harder to anchor.
 
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toffee

toffee

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Own The West":1w9mqbra said:
Height isn't as important as length. Whomever has the longer arms can attack the other's frame while keeping theirs clean.

Height plays a part in leverage though. If you think about 5'11" Poona and 6'8" Stone going against each other, Stone has to drop his hips 5-6" to push straight across or else Poona is lifting him up which would make it harder to anchor.
There must be a bio-mechanical reason why most OL are in the 6'4-6'6" range. Although a line of five Poonas sounded intriguing.

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IndyHawk

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Russ cannot see over them anyway without going back 5 yards on a shotgun snap.
 

Jerhawk

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Serious question: Why do NFL teams not scout sumo wrestlers to play on the line?

You put 5 sumo wrestler bad boys in front of Russell, and he will be DangeRuss

They're not very tall, but they move buildings
 
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toffee

toffee

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Jerhawk":2m3vq3mb said:
Serious question: Why do NFL teams not scout sumo wrestlers to play on the line?

You put 5 sumo wrestler bad boys in front of Russell, and he will be DangeRuss

They're not very tall, but they move buildings

Al Davis tried in his days, but those sumo dudes made more $ as wrestler at that time.
 
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toffee

toffee

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brimsalabim":u44zjguz said:
Jerhawk":u44zjguz said:
Serious question: Why do NFL teams not scout sumo wrestlers to play on the line?

You put 5 sumo wrestler bad boys in front of Russell, and he will be DangeRuss

They're not very tall, but they move buildings


https://youtu.be/TeFxzcVmlGQ
That huge dude can play DT?

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AgentDib

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One advantage of reach at center is that he lines up on the ball, but the other OL line up on him (and cheat a bit back). A tall center with long arms will allow the rest of the line to start several inches further back and that is a huge advantage in pass protection.
 
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toffee

toffee

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AgentDib":15y6n0fs said:
One advantage of reach at center is that he lines up on the ball, but the other OL line up on him (and cheat a bit back). A tall center with long arms will allow the rest of the line to start several inches further back and that is a huge advantage in pass protection.
Good point, arm length is all important.

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Jerhawk

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brimsalabim":2dpqjxu0 said:
Jerhawk":2dpqjxu0 said:
Serious question: Why do NFL teams not scout sumo wrestlers to play on the line?

You put 5 sumo wrestler bad boys in front of Russell, and he will be DangeRuss

They're not very tall, but they move buildings


https://youtu.be/TeFxzcVmlGQ

Lmao yes I want Seattle to sign that big dude. We would be unstoppable
 

xray

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Wilson needs his OL to be around 5' 7" and 380 lbs each . Imagine how good he would be if he could see the field . :D
 

IndyHawk

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xray":33uj776y said:
Wilson needs his OL to be around 5' 7" and 380 lbs each . Imagine how good he would be if he could see the field . :D
It's not even a joke..He does need that to happen and he would thrive.
 

fenderbender123

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It makes it harder for the QB to see the field, but it also makes it harder for the defensive players to see the QB. So it's really a tradeoff, depending on how you utilize the opportunities.
 
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toffee

toffee

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it's hard to find five short, wide, athletic men with disproportionately long arms, and short legs. Those are stuff from laboratories by mad professors.

If one could assemble five of those dudes, might just work marvelously. Short legs for quicker accelerations, linemen do not need high top speed, right? Long arms for all the hand stuffs, wide body to fill gaps, and low center of gravity for that pad level.


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Lagartixa

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toffee":3m2sirn0 said:
it's hard to find five short, wide, athletic men with disproportionately long arms, and short legs. Those are stuff from laboratories by mad professors.

If one could assemble five of those dudes, might just work marvelously. Short legs for quicker accelerations, linemen do not need high top speed, right? Long arms for all the hand stuffs, wide body to fill gaps, and low center of gravity for that pad level.


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Poona Ford got me thinking in a very similar way to how he appears to have gotten you (toffee) thinking.

Ford was Big-12 Defensive Lineman of the Year in his final year at Texas, but he still went undrafted. 256 guys were drafted, but Ford had to wait and sign a free-agent contract with the Seahawks after the draft was over. To me, an outsider looking in, that makes 31 teams look really stupid for not risking even a compensational seventh-round pick to see if any of Ford's success at Texas would translate to the NFL, and it makes one team look really lucky that none of those other 31 teams was willing to risk even a late-seventh-round pick. The result was that the Seahawks got Ford's first three years for $482,666, $572,666, and $752,668 against the cap, a tremendous bargain for a solid NFL starter (it could have been an even greater bargain if the Seahawks had started giving Ford more playing time earlier in his rookie season, which Pete Carroll said the team should have done). And why did the Seahawks get this bargain? Because Ford was considered "too short" for the defensive-tackle position.

I have to admit I find it hard to ignore the fact that the guy who is still the lightest DT in the NFL, and who was also the shortest before Poona came along, is also by far the best DT in the game today.

So that got me thinking about why teams want DTs to be tall.
One thing that came to mind is weight. A shorter lineman is usually a lighter lineman, and therefore easier to push around. But Ford is pretty heavy. In fact, he's right around (just above!) the average weight for DTs, despite being much shorter than the average height.
Another thing that came to mind is arm length. Shorter linemen tend to have shorter arms, and are therefore at a disadvantage starting with the initial "punch" at opposing linemen. But Ford has unusually long arms for a man his height, so he doesn't have that disadvantage on the punch.
With his extremely low center of gravity, Ford is hard to knock over. He has remarkable lateral mobility for a man of his weight. And his "pad level" is naturally very low. Linemen are constantly being coached on getting their "pad level" lower. Ford has an advantage on that.

And all that got me wondering if maybe some of the "rules of thumb" used for evaluating players might be incomplete or just plain wrong. For example, maybe teams could be better served by dropping the height guideline for DTs and instead looking directly at things like arm length and weight.
 
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