Ken Norton Jr....

Is still employed. We all knew he'd make it another season, but I'm surprised to not see any rage about it here on these forums. I guess he got off the hook because of the late season defensive surge and all the news about Russ. I remember for most of last season and the season before he was the most under fire guy on these forums

We'll see how the season goes. Norton needs to improve the D from last season.

He's got a potentially good DLine this year which which was not something he had until late last season. He still needs another potential starter at CB. The Linebackers are solid and may still have KJ back but that may slow the development of his younger players. The S corps are solid. The whole story may be told by the answer to the question, are the CBs strong enough?

Don't know that Norton is all that creative as a DC and he tends to be a PC minion, but his D's are steady more than brilliant. I'd like to see more creativity. It will take the development of several young players for the D to be better than what we saw early last season. My point here is not an attack on Norton but just my sense of how he seems to have performed.

I am hoping the D takes a step forward as there is some talent here that could be interesting and potentially very good.

I think most of the attacks on coaches that we have seen here are rather shallow. They tend to ignore a lot of year to year variables including changes in rules and points of emphasis. Yesterdays head hunters have drawn flags like stickum or fly paper in recent years. Defenses have been forced to change how they cover and hand off cover responsibilities as well as how they tackle.

IMO, a lot of defenses including the Seahawks have been force to resort to more of an attacking style while creating uncertainly in the minds of opposing offenses. That is among the reasons Jamal Adams was acquired and why we are seeing some changes in the makeup of desirable player attributes. The Seahawk defense transitioned from a 4-3-4 dominate personnel group to a more commonly deployed 4-2-5 personnel group. I have no doubt more changes are on the way as they churn the roster to facilitate the attacking style they appear to be trending toward.

Following changes is the mandatory avenue to understanding. Blaming this or that person is lazy and shallow. It insulates its practitioner from any hope of comprehending what is transitioning before their own eyes.

I prefer to look for and enjoy changes to team talent and tactics in response to changes in game rules. It's fun :2thumbs:

Who had June 10th for the first "fire Ken Norton" thread.

Why did the defense improve so drastically in the second half of last season?

What specifically and exactly was KNJ's role in the failures of the first half and the improvement in the second? Can that improvement continue?

I have serious doubts that fans on this site can answer these questions. But speculate away!

The defense 'improved' because the offenses we faced had some pretty iffy QBs.

It also helped the defense that with our offense limiting possessions, Norton didn't get as many chances to fail.

It isn't like he got that much better, but he did improve some. He figured out some pressure packages and he sometimes was successful with them.

Not enough though.

One big reason I expect nothing from this team outside of a good regular season is our DC is still going to hold us back. Pete won't fire him though, so a 'Fire Norton' effort would be pointless. We are stuck with at least a few more years of Norton.

But yes, he is below average for the most part.

Norton calls plays, well most the time till Pete dictates defense philosophy and alignments.

Ad Hawk":3ohvrq63 said:

Why did the defense improve so drastically in the second half of last season?

What specifically and exactly was KNJ's role in the failures of the first half and the improvement in the second? Can that improvement continue?

I have serious doubts that fans on this site can answer these questions. But speculate away!

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The FO realized that the lack of pass rush wasnt going to fixed by signing a safety so they had to go out and get the pieces they should have gotten in the first place. Once they did, bang, the defense improved.

Norton is a Carroll yes man so there's more leniency towards him than most. Not sure how much fault can be laid at Nortons feet with the talent the D had, but he was the man calling the schemes when Seattle was on the verge of becoming the worst pass defense of all time. Brought in some pass rush midway through the season and the defense became average. This season will be the big test. The secondary is still shaky and the LB corp might not be the greatest so we'll have to wait and see.

Color me shocked that Schotty is gone and KNJ is here

In need of some , Ken Norton Sr. Attack mode .
.

Norton is here and Schotty is gone because the defense improved and the offense regressed. It's that simple.

Why the defense was so bad out of the gate was because we had 6 new starters (Mayowa, Irvin, Brooks, Dunbar, Adams and Blair). Then three of those went down in the first three weeks, so we were in "training camp" during the season.

Adams and Dunlap (re)joined in week 8 (while Griffin went down), but the secondary began to gel and the defense began living up to its potential.

There's no reason to believe that we won't start out playing at a high level even with Griffin gone as we turned it around with him out of the lineup last year. It bodes well if one of the newcomers can beat Flowers out in training camp, but even if they don't I believe the pass rush will be improved and that will make everyone's job easier.

He's the worst DC Pete has had in Seattle. But ultimately, it is Pete's defense. I have to really pay attention, lip read Pete when he's on the sideline, and listen to Pete's post-games to try and decipher what was a Pete decision and what was a Ken decision. Sort it all out when it comes to the calls, they are intertwined.

Ken is REALLY slow to adjust, and Pete needs to be more involved. And that is my hope. Waldron handles the offense, and Pete focuses the bulk of his energy on defense.

All I know is that every D he has ever coordinated has been trash

Own The West":dl6btgs0 said:

Norton is here and Schotty is gone because the defense improved and the offense regressed. It's that simple.

Why the defense was so bad out of the gate was because we had 6 new starters (Mayowa, Irvin, Brooks, Dunbar, Adams and Blair). Then three of those went down in the first three weeks, so we were in "training camp" during the season.

Adams and Dunlap (re)joined in week 8 (while Griffin went down), but the secondary began to gel and the defense began living up to its potential.

There's no reason to believe that we won't start out playing at a high level even with Griffin gone as we turned it around with him out of the lineup last year. It bodes well if one of the newcomers can beat Flowers out in training camp, but even if they don't I believe the pass rush will be improved and that will make everyone's job easier.

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All good meaningful points.

I would add that Jordyn Brooks returned in week 7 and improved thru out the second half. In my eyes, he was clearly an important part of that second half surge toward greater defensive success. There were others who improved as well. A positive scenario would look for a part II to the transition to an emerging defense.

Own The West":ysk7xmc1 said:

Norton is here and Schotty is gone because the defense improved and the offense regressed. It's that simple.

Why the defense was so bad out of the gate was because we had 6 new starters (Mayowa, Irvin, Brooks, Dunbar, Adams and Blair). Then three of those went down in the first three weeks, so we were in "training camp" during the season.

Adams and Dunlap (re)joined in week 8 (while Griffin went down), but the secondary began to gel and the defense began living up to its potential.

There's no reason to believe that we won't start out playing at a high level even with Griffin gone as we turned it around with him out of the lineup last year. It bodes well if one of the newcomers can beat Flowers out in training camp, but even if they don't I believe the pass rush will be improved and that will make everyone's job easier.

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I'm sure other teams had new starters too, no?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/1369024246069030913[/tweet]

Fade":xtb93g7q said:

He's the worst DC Pete has had in Seattle. But ultimately, it is Pete's defense. I have to really pay attention, lip read Pete when he's on the sideline, and listen to Pete's post-games to try and decipher what was a Pete decision and what was a Ken decision. Sort it all out when it comes to the calls, they are intertwined.

Ken is REALLY slow to adjust, and Pete needs to be more involved. And that is my hope. Waldron handles the offense, and Pete focuses the bulk of his energy on defense.

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I think it's been pretty obvious over the past 4-5 years that even Pete doesn't know how to adjust when his defense is getting owned.

Pete's entire defensive philosophy and schemes rely on having bigger, faster and stronger players than the other team's offense in order to impose his smothering cover 3 scheme.

That worked great when he had bigger, faster and stronger players. When we don't? Err, hasn't worked so well.

I do think Pete, Norton and the other defensive coaches are starting to adjust those schemes and personnel, and will continue to going forward with the type of players we're drafting and signing. Already seen a shift in the DB room, as well as the LB room (more hybrid LEO's).

Sgt. Largent":1hczq7tj said:

Who had June 10th for the first "fire Ken Norton" thread.

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Is it too early/late to say "fire Bevell?"

Yea Norton has a zero chance in being fired. Even if the team gives up record numbers. I was shocked they fired the OC. But Norton is safe. He will only leave if he gets a HC position.


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Where were all the coaches available to replace him ? Not much .

xray":3ph1an3g said:

Where were all the coaches available to replace him ? Not much .

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Also , rumor says that Carroll and Norton enjoy each other's company far outside of football . Turns out they both have a PEZ collection that gives me wood . :0190l: