The Narrative...

GeekHawk · Sep 10, 2021

Seems like all over the place, The Narrative on our Seahawks is that since we didn't get all-pros at every position over the offseason we will end up 3rd in the NFCW (or worse). I don't think we actually regressed in any area from last year, and certainly improved in more than one. Why do suppose The Narrative isn't "The Seahawks, after winning the NFCW last year, have either stayed the same or improved in every area and should do well again this year"? I for one think we're getting sold short.

toffee · Sep 10, 2021

One thing for sure, we or Pete managed to beat most of those preseason narratives during his tenure in Seattle. That said, there are a lot of worrisome aspects concerning this year's team that justify the doubters.

Hockey Guy · Sep 10, 2021

GeekHawk":34r9wh9c said:
Seems like all over the place, The Narrative on our Seahawks is that since we didn't get all-pros at every position over the offseason we will end up 3rd in the NFCW (or worse). I don't think we actually regressed in any area from last year, and certainly improved in more than one. Why do suppose The Narrative isn't "The Seahawks, after winning the NFCW last year, have either stayed the same or improved in every area and should do well again this year"? I for one think we're getting sold short.

The offense started great than got terrible by seasons end.

The defense started terrible & got pretty decent by season's end.

I'm sure they didn't want to play their hand in pre-season so we really don't know for sure which offense we're gonna get especially with a brand new OC who's never done it before. There might be some growing pains on offense.

Basically same with the defense but the question there is if the defense really improved at the end of the year & can build on that this season or were we just playing shitty teams & made them look better than they are. My guess is it's somewhere in the middle of those 2 & a middle of the road defense might not be enough to hold our position at the top of the division especially if we do have some offensive growing pains.

It's a tough division with no easy marks.

TreeRon · Sep 10, 2021

Everyone and I mean eveyrone thinks Matthew Stafford and the Rams are going to be stupendous. Stafford is a QB god. The 49ers will have everyone back that was injured last year (forgetting of course their QB situation) and thus will be almost as remarkable as the Rams. The Hawks have a rift between their spoiled phoney (implied not said) QB and his Oline, have not added anyone of note, have let go of the best CB and were exposed as imposters in their final game last year vs. the Rams (with Goff). Neary a word about the best receiving duo in football and No one NOONE, says boo crap about Chris Carson. Some even have us behind Arizona as they've made noted additions.

Maulbert · Sep 10, 2021

TreeRon":2pt49pq7 said:
Everyone and I mean eveyrone thinks Matthew Stafford and the Rams are going to be stupendous. Stafford is a QB god. The 49ers will have everyone back that was injured last year (forgetting of course their QB situation) and thus will be almost as remarkable as the Rams. The Hawks have a rift between their spoiled phoney (implied not said) QB and his Oline, have not added anyone of note, have let go of the best CB and were exposed as imposters in their final game last year vs. the Rams (with Goff). Neary a word about the best receiving duo in football and No one NOONE, says boo crap about Chris Carson. Some even have us behind Arizona as they've made noted additions.

Seriously, I don't get the Stafford love. He's physically talented, and an above average QB, but it was not just a case of bad Lions teams wasting his talent. He had the best receiver in football for 7 seasons and made the playoffs 3 times. They fired a coach that posted 3 out of 4 winning seasons. At some point, the blame falls on him. Even Joe Flacco had 1 great postseason.

John63 · Sep 10, 2021

TreeRon":2sqz8xb9 said:
Everyone and I mean eveyrone thinks Matthew Stafford and the Rams are going to be stupendous. Stafford is a QB god. The 49ers will have everyone back that was injured last year (forgetting of course their QB situation) and thus will be almost as remarkable as the Rams. The Hawks have a rift between their spoiled phoney (implied not said) QB and his Oline, have not added anyone of note, have let go of the best CB and were exposed as imposters in their final game last year vs. the Rams (with Goff). Neary a word about the best receiving duo in football and No one NOONE, says boo crap about Chris Carson. Some even have us behind Arizona as they've made noted additions.

"The Hawks have a rift between their spoiled phoney (implied not said) QB and his Oline" Implied by whom...I am guess just you.

TwistedHusky · Sep 10, 2021

The defense never got 'decent'.

The defense got to play more terrible QBs.

Even that did not help since we played half a QB in the wildcard and could not beat that team.

We are likely the 2nd or 3rd best team in our division.

We are probably a wildcard.

We could be worse but anyone expecting us to win the division is essentially expecting the 49ers or Rams to implode since that is what it will take. In a competitive NFC, we are not the leader, especially when we cannot win deciding games head to head against the Rams.

But if the Rams improved at QB and we have to fight them for a shot at any playoff slot, we are going to lose because the Rams own us. They owned us with Goff, all Stafford has is be any better than Goff - and being worse than Goff would be difficult to achieve.

(That said, as much as the Rams own us, we own the 49ers, so it is like a weird game of paper, rock & scissors going on the NFC West)

John63 · Sep 10, 2021

Hockey Guy":20glk305 said:
GeekHawk":20glk305 said:

Seems like all over the place, The Narrative on our Seahawks is that since we didn't get all-pros at every position over the offseason we will end up 3rd in the NFCW (or worse). I don't think we actually regressed in any area from last year, and certainly improved in more than one. Why do suppose The Narrative isn't "The Seahawks, after winning the NFCW last year, have either stayed the same or improved in every area and should do well again this year"? I for one think we're getting sold short.

Click to expand...

The offense started great than got terrible by seasons end.

The defense started terrible & got pretty decent by season's end.

I'm sure they didn't want to play their hand in pre-season so we really don't know for sure which offense we're gonna get especially with a brand new OC who's never done it before. There might be some growing pains on offense.

Basically same with the defense but the question there is if the defense really improved at the end of the year & can build on that this season or were we just playing $h!t teams & made them look better than they are. My guess is it's somewhere in the middle of those 2 & a middle of the road defense might not be enough to hold our position at the top of the division especially if we do have some offensive growing pains.

It's a tough division with no easy marks.

"The offense started great than got terrible by seasons end. "

ahh we were 6-2 in our final 8 games and 4-0 in the final 4 and avg 27 points per game over those final 4. Far from terrible, 15 points per game the Jest did is terrible. That said it was not as much as the first 8 games but then again we changed philosophies, and still far from terrbile.

TreeRon · Sep 10, 2021

John63":1u34glxa said:
TreeRon":1u34glxa said:

Everyone and I mean eveyrone thinks Matthew Stafford and the Rams are going to be stupendous. Stafford is a QB god. The 49ers will have everyone back that was injured last year (forgetting of course their QB situation) and thus will be almost as remarkable as the Rams. The Hawks have a rift between their spoiled phoney (implied not said) QB and his Oline, have not added anyone of note, have let go of the best CB and were exposed as imposters in their final game last year vs. the Rams (with Goff). Neary a word about the best receiving duo in football and No one NOONE, says boo crap about Chris Carson. Some even have us behind Arizona as they've made noted additions.

Click to expand...

"The Hawks have a rift between their spoiled phoney (implied not said) QB and his Oline" Implied by whom...I am guess just you.

I'm actually a RW fan and believe he really is who he appears to be. You guess wrong.
By whom, who suggests RW is a phoney? Marcellus Wiley for one, but he doesn't suggest it, he says it.
The football media has been overplaying the Russ/Oline controversy all summer long. They have nothing else to do but stir the pot so, that's what they do. It becomes a narrative.

Hockey Guy · Sep 10, 2021

TwistedHusky":3v35k82f said:
The defense never got 'decent'.

The defense got to play more terrible QBs.

Thanks for setting me straight.

I just wish I had any football knowledge & was able to bridge the possibility that the improvement may have been for that reason. It's good to know that this is the 100% factual reason for it & not some combination of that & other factors that some idiot posters may try to float that they wouldn't be able to prove as factual & as thoroughly as you have.

Hockey Guy · Sep 10, 2021

John63":21jjsrgr said:
"The offense started great than got terrible by seasons end. "

ahh we were 6-2 in our final 8 games and 4-0 in the final 4 and avg 27 points per game over those final 4. Far from terrible, 15 points per game the Jest did is terrible. That said it was not as much as the first 8 games but then again we changed philosophies, and still far from terrbile.

Didn't realize "seasons end" was code for "final 8 games".

I realize it's only my opinion but I didn't think the offense looked even half decent after week 12, the Jets game notwithstanding, but if you try to tell me the offense wasn't terrible, bordering on horrid, against the Giants in Week 13 or for the first 3 quarters against the 49ers in the finale & then again in the playoff game I'll need to question your objectivity & advise you to take a certain person testicles out of your mouth.

TwistedHusky · Sep 10, 2021

You have the name Hockey in your handle, so Im just going to say Go Kraken.
(Got my gear, I am ready to go!)

However, please review the QBs we faced the latter third of the season and contrast to the 1st third of the season.

Do you honestly, realistically believe that facing non-starting caliber QBs did not make it easier for the defense?

I will concede that we went from one of the worst pass rushes in the league the 1st third, to one of the best in the last third. And a lot of that was adding guys like Dunlap. So there WAS improvement on the defense by that measure.

But a whole lot of that improvement was likely due to facing struggling pass offenses because they had below-average QBs.

Hockey Guy · Sep 10, 2021

TwistedHusky":2yeqaa0i said:
You have the name Hockey in your handle, so Im just going to say Go Kraken.
(Got my gear, I am ready to go!)

However, please review the QBs we faced the latter third of the season and contrast to the 1st third of the season.

Do you honestly, realistically believe that facing non-starting caliber QBs did not make it easier for the defense?

I will concede that we went from one of the worst pass rushes in the league the 1st third, to one of the best in the last third. And a lot of that was adding guys like Dunlap. So there WAS improvement on the defense by that measure.

But a whole lot of that improvement was likely due to facing struggling pass offenses because they had below-average QBs.

Come on dude.

In my first post in this thread I brought up the real possibility that the improved defense could have been because they played some sh** teams. I didn't honestly believe anybody would think a sh** QB & a sh** team were 2 totally different things.

Did you even read the whole post to find out what I was actually saying or did you just skim the headline where I said the defense was "decent" by seasons end & decide to respond without reading the rest?

TwistedHusky · Sep 10, 2021

Actually, the rest of the post was on point. And none of that was disputed.

But I don't think there is a universe that exists where you can call last year's defense 'pretty decent'. Not a dig any poster, just the reality of our below par, substandard, DC.

All those weaker teams did was allow us to walk our offense back and think we could somehow be competitive with that defense and a turtled-up offense.

And it took the first playoff game to show us that was ridiculously incorrect. We struggled to stop a run game with some noname RB and essentially no QB. And then we let that missing QB with half a hand, complete enough passes to give them enough successful drives to win the game.

The defense is and will be our Achilles heel and our weakness for the entire year. Because unless Norton ends up in quarantine (not for Covid, just for being so godawful a DC that we are afraid might infest the players) we are going to have the same problem.

Norton is the problem until he proves he isn't. Playing a bunch of crappy QBs and so ending up winning games despite your below-average defense isn't going to change that.

Until that changes, that has to be the narrative:

A QB that wins despite his coach, with a mediocre to poor defense, on a team that will somehow make it to the wildcard game.

They will also be the team that any team that isn't a wildcard hopes to draw in the playoffs, because they will be an easy win against. The Rams wanted us for that reason last year, were proven right, and that probably will not change this year.

We are a fun and competitive team to watch in the regular season and one of the easiest draws/pushover in the playoffs. (unless we face another wildcard)

Hockey Guy · Sep 10, 2021

TwistedHusky":22unxw25 said:
Actually, the rest of the post was on point. And none of that was disputed.

But I don't think there is a universe that exists where you can call last year's defense 'pretty decent'. Not a dig any poster, just the reality of our below par, substandard, DC.

All those weaker teams did was allow us to walk our offense back and think we could somehow be competitive with that defense and a turtled-up offense.

And it took the first playoff game to show us that was ridiculously incorrect. We struggled to stop a run game with some noname RB and essentially no QB. And then we let that missing QB with half a hand, complete enough passes to give them enough successful drives to win the game.

The defense is and will be our Achilles heel and our weakness for the entire year. Because unless Norton ends up in quarantine (not for Covid, just for being so godawful a DC that we are afraid might infest the players) we are going to have the same problem.

Norton is the problem until he proves he isn't. Playing a bunch of crappy QBs and so ending up winning games despite your below-average defense isn't going to change that.

Until that changes, that has to be the narrative:

A QB that wins despite his coach, with a mediocre to poor defense, on a team that will somehow make it to the wildcard game.

They will also be the team that any team that isn't a wildcard hopes to draw in the playoffs, because they will be an easy win against. The Rams wanted us for that reason last year, were proven right, and that probably will not change this year.

We are a fun and competitive team to watch in the regular season and one of the easiest draws/pushover in the playoffs. (unless we face another wildcard)

JFC, why the f*** do I even post here?

flv · Sep 10, 2021

TreeRon":6wys0nkm said:
Everyone and I mean eveyrone thinks Matthew Stafford and the Rams are going to be stupendous. Stafford is a QB god. The 49ers will have everyone back that was injured last year (forgetting of course their QB situation) and thus will be almost as remarkable as the Rams. The Hawks have a rift between their spoiled phoney (implied not said) QB and his Oline, have not added anyone of note, have let go of the best CB and were exposed as imposters in their final game last year vs. the Rams (with Goff). Neary a word about the best receiving duo in football and No one NOONE, says boo crap about Chris Carson. Some even have us behind Arizona as they've made noted additions.

Yep. That sums it up nicely.

pmedic920 · Sep 10, 2021

ESPN simulator says we go 0-8/0-9 to start the season.

I say BS and hope it’s posted on every bulletin board @ VMAV

Chapow · Sep 10, 2021

Hockey Guy":29ym6ksk said:
TwistedHusky":29ym6ksk said:

Actually, the rest of the post was on point. And none of that was disputed.

But I don't think there is a universe that exists where you can call last year's defense 'pretty decent'. Not a dig any poster, just the reality of our below par, substandard, DC.

All those weaker teams did was allow us to walk our offense back and think we could somehow be competitive with that defense and a turtled-up offense.

And it took the first playoff game to show us that was ridiculously incorrect. We struggled to stop a run game with some noname RB and essentially no QB. And then we let that missing QB with half a hand, complete enough passes to give them enough successful drives to win the game.

The defense is and will be our Achilles heel and our weakness for the entire year. Because unless Norton ends up in quarantine (not for Covid, just for being so godawful a DC that we are afraid might infest the players) we are going to have the same problem.

Norton is the problem until he proves he isn't. Playing a bunch of crappy QBs and so ending up winning games despite your below-average defense isn't going to change that.

Until that changes, that has to be the narrative:

A QB that wins despite his coach, with a mediocre to poor defense, on a team that will somehow make it to the wildcard game.

They will also be the team that any team that isn't a wildcard hopes to draw in the playoffs, because they will be an easy win against. The Rams wanted us for that reason last year, were proven right, and that probably will not change this year.

We are a fun and competitive team to watch in the regular season and one of the easiest draws/pushover in the playoffs. (unless we face another wildcard)

Click to expand...

JFC, why the f*** do I even post here?

I mean, you've been posting here long enough to know beyond any shadow of a doubt that this is exactly the type of response you're going to get no matter what the topic is and no matter what you post, so I don't know? Why do you post here?

GeekHawk · Sep 10, 2021

Damn people, don't make me pull this internet over! :lol:

I'm trying to stimulate some actual football talk. We have agreed the D was terrible 1st trimester, and looked good 3rd trimester. Do we think that all the additions we made to the pass rush (along with another year of experience) is totally offset by not re-signing Shaq? Do we think this is The Narrative speaking, or is it reality? On the O side, do we think that adding to the O-line is going to leave it as terrible as it was last year (The Narrative) or will it be better? Are we totally screwed by changing out TEs? Will firing the OC who couldn't possibly adjust plays during the season (or game plans for playing the Lambs 2 weeks after beating them) and replacing him with someone from that very same Lambs offense who did adjust not have any bearing on the end result?

Discussions, people! I want discussions! Not pedantic rants, please. To borrow a phrase, Make Dot Net Great Again! :mrgreen:

Own The West · Sep 10, 2021

Apparently The Onion reads .net
https://www.theonion.com/top-contenders-for-the-2021-nfl-season-1847609350/slides/13

“The Seahawks are near the end of Russell Wilson’s prime and a long shot to get past the divisional round, which means you can look forward to Seattle fans once again whining about a team with nine playoff appearances and a Super Bowl win in the last 11 years like they’re the f***ing Jets.”

The Narrative...

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